You're listening to Business English Pod, the Business English podcast for professionals on the move.
Hello, and welcome back to Business English Pod.
My name is Edwin, and I'll be your host for today's lesson on idioms related to negotiations.
Negotiation is at the heart of business.
We negotiate salaries partnerships prices terms timelines, business deals and pretty much everything in fact.
And to do this, we discuss, we persuade, and we make trade-offs all in the name of closing the deal.
Yes, almost everything in business is a kind of negotiation, a push and pull in which we try to get what we want, and it should come as no surprise that in English we have a lot of different idioms for talking about negotiations.
Today, we'll look at some of these idioms and how to use them.
You will hear a conversation between two colleagues, Jose and Neil.
They are talking about some negotiations they've been involved in recently.
In particular, Neil has been experiencing some challenges in a negotiation with a company from Singapore.
As you listen to the dialogue, try to answer the following questions.
1.
What surprising demand does Neil say the other company made early on?
2.
After explaining his own experience with a Brazilian company, what does José suggest Neil try doing?
3.
What does Neil think he might have to do instead of doing what José suggests?
It was a lot of hard work, but in the end we managed to come to an agreement which I'm pretty relieved about, to be honest.
So anyways, how's it going with those guys from Singapore?
Did you manage to hammer out a deal yet?
No, not yet.
Things were moving pretty quickly in the beginning, but for the past few months we keep getting bogged down by every little detail.
Yeah, it's never as simple as it should be.
So, what's the holdup?
Are they squeezing you on costs?
No, not that.
The fee structure and quote wasn't really a major bone of contention.
Oh yeah?
Well, they agreed to the cost, but not before they threw us a curve early on by asking for a 20 discount on any billing over 400000.
It's not so much the idea of a discount exactly, but the 20%.
Yeah, that's really pushing it.
I've agreed to five a few times before, but I draw the line at 10%.
Right, thank you.
20% is giving away the farm.
In any case, they backed off that after a bit of wrangling.
Maybe it's just a ploy because now they're trying to play hardball on a bunch of other issues.
Oh, I've seen that before.
Last year I was dealing with a big Brazilian outfit.
They came out with a bunch of crazy demands, then backed off when we called them on it.
But after that, they kept talking about how they had given up so much ground.
Oldest trick in the book, huh?
Exactly.
They thought we'd cave in to their demands on everything else.
But we didn't, and it worked out pretty well in the end.
So, maybe all you need to do is bide your time until they see that you won't fall for it.
Right.
That's what I want to do.
But it seems risky just to wait and lose the momentum.
I wouldn't say we've reached a stalemate yet, but it might be almost time to start turning up the heat, if you know what I mean.
Yeah.
So what exactly are they getting hung up on anyway?
Well, some of it is about payment terms.
They're asking for net 90, which is a real stretch.
Now let's go through the dialogue again and look at the idioms Jose and Neil used in their conversation.
Jose has just finished explaining a deal he was recently involved in, and now he wants to turn the conversation to Neil.
It was a lot of hard work, but in the end we managed to come to an agreement which I'm pretty relieved about, to be honest.
So anyways, how's it going with those guys from Singapore?
Did you manage to hammer out a deal yet?
To change the topic, Jose uses so anyways and then asks if Neil has managed to hammer out a deal with a company from Singapore.
A deal is any kind of agreement or contract, and if you hammer one out, it means you have successfully completed the deal.
Hammering out a deal makes it sound like hard work, which it often is.
Let's practice some more ways we can use this idiom to hammer out a deal.
After three months of negotiation, we still couldn't hammer out a deal.
We've been talking about working together for a while, so let's get together and hammer out a deal.
So, has Neil hammered out a deal?
No, not yet.
Things were moving pretty quickly in the beginning, but for the past few months we keep getting bogged down by every little detail.
In explaining why he hasn't been able to hammer out a deal.
Neil says that they keep getting bogged down by details.
A bog is an area of wet or muddy ground, like a swamp.
And if you imagine trying to walk through a bog or swamp, you might see how getting bogged down can mean to move slowly.
When negotiations get bogged down, progress is difficult.
How else can we use this idiom?
Let's try a few more examples.
My dealings with Butler Inc. got bogged down by concerns over consulting fees.
Talks between the two companies got bogged down when they couldn't agree over intellectual property rights.
Next, we can hear Jose asking what has caused the negotiation to get bogged down.
Yeah, it's never as simple as it should be.
So, what's the holdup?
Are they squeezing you on costs?
No, not that.
The fee structure and quote wasn't really a major bone of contention.
Jose asks about the holdup, which is the reason that something has stopped or slowed down.
And he takes a guess at a common holdup in negotiations, cost.
More specifically, he asks if the other people are squeezing Neil on costs or putting pressure on him to reduce the cost.
In fact, as Neil explains, costs or the fee structure and quote aren't really a bone of contention.
When you disagree with someone, especially in a negotiation, then the bone of contention is a specific point that you disagree about.
It could be costs, timelines, terms, or anything else that is part of a deal.
Let's run through some more ways of using this idiom, bone of contention.
The real bone of contention in our lawsuit against the company is the amount of compensation they should pay.
If you let a minor disagreement become a major bone of contention, you'll never be able to strike a deal.
Now, let's listen as Neil explains a bit more about the difficulties of his negotiation.
Well, they agreed to the cost, but not before they threw us a curve early on by asking for a 20 discount on any billing over 400000.
It's not so much the idea of a discount exactly, but the 20%.
So, according to Neil, the other party asked for a special 20% discount on any fees over $400,000.
That's one way a company can limit consulting costs.
But 20% is a pretty big request that has complicated the negotiations.
It sounds like the company from Singapore has surprised Neil with this demand.
And when someone does that, we say, as Neil does, that someone has thrown us a curve.
You might also hear to throw someone a curve ball, but now we usually drop the word ball.
So what exactly is a curve ball?
Well, in baseball, a curve or curve ball is a pitch that is hard for a batter to hit.
Let's practice some more ways of using to throw someone a curve when talking about a surprising problem during a negotiation.
The union sure threw us a curve when they suddenly demanded changes to work shifts during our busy period.
Office Supplies International suddenly threw its biggest supplier a curve by asking for a 25 discount.
Now, what does Jose think about the request for a 20% discount?
Yeah, that's really pushing it.
I've agreed to five a few times before, but I draw the line at 10%.
Jose agrees with his friend and says that 20% is pushing it or asking for too much.
He has agreed to discounts before, but he's got a limit to how much he will accept.
As he says, he draws the line at 10%.
Anytime you set a limit in negotiation or in anything else, you can say you draw the line.
Let's try using this idiom in a short dialogue.
So, do you think we should agree to changes to the timeline?
A small change is okay, but I think we should draw the line at a month.
Neil appreciates Jose's support, as you can hear.
Right, thank you.
20% is giving away the farm.
Is Neil really talking about farms or farming?
No, of course not.
But this idiom, to give away the farm, means to give a lot without getting much in return.
Neil uses this idiom to describe a 20% discount.
In other words, 20% is just too much.
Let's run through some more ways of using to give away the farm.
You offered the bulk discount at the start of your pitch?
Why give away the farm so soon?
We're willing to share some of our content in exchange for your technology, but we're not going to give away the farm.
Let's listen as Neil continues explaining the situation.
In any case, they backed off that after a bit of wrangling.
Maybe it's just a ploy because now they're trying to play hardball on a bunch of other issues.
Remember, Neil said that the other party eventually agreed to his price structure.
This means that they backed off the discount issue.
If you back off something, you take a softer position or stop demanding something in a negotiation.
So why would the other people do that?
Well, Neil wonders if it's some kind of ploy or strategy.
He explains that they're playing hardball on other issues now.
We've already heard one idiom related to baseball.
Now, here's another.
If you play hardball with someone, as opposed to softball, you're acting strong and aggressive.
Expressions like this really highlight how competitive negotiations can be.
Let's practice some more ways of using the idiom to play hardball.
When a client still refuses to pay after six months, it's time to call the lawyers and play hardball.
The government is playing hardball with mobile phone companies to encourage greater competition.
Next, we hear Jose talk about his own experience with this kind of ploy or strategy.
Oh, I've seen that before.
Last year, I was dealing with a big Brazilian outfit.
They came out with a bunch of crazy demands, then backed off when we called them on it.
But after that, they kept talking about how they had given up so much ground.
The strategy is fairly simple.
First, someone makes a demand for something that's not actually important or even really possible.
Then they back off.
Doing this makes it seem like they've given ground or agreed to compromise, even though the demand wasn't really important or possible.
The idea is that they can then ask for something in return.
Giving ground is a natural part of negotiations.
Neither side ever gets everything they want, which means that someone has to give ground.
Let's run through some more ways of using this common negotiation idiom.
The mediator has told both sides of the dispute that they'll have to give some ground to reach a deal.
We might be able to form a partnership if Techfront will just give a little ground to us in the European market.
Now let's get back to the dialogue.
Oldest trick in the book, huh?
Exactly.
They thought we'd cave in to their demands on everything else.
Neil calls this negotiation strategy the oldest trick in the book.
That's an expression we can use to describe a familiar or often used trick or deception.
Jose agrees and explains that the other side thought that Jose would cave in to their demands.
Cave-in doesn't have much to do with caves.
It's more like to give in or give up.
If someone demands or asks for something and you cave in, then you give them what they want.
How else can we use this idiom?
Let's try some more examples of caving in to a demand.
After a two-month strike, the owners finally caved in to the union's demand for higher wages.
It took us a year of pressure, but the building owner has finally caved in to our demands for a new roof.
So if this strategy is the oldest trick in the book, surely Jose didn't cave in to their demands, did he?
Let's listen.
But we didn't, and it worked out pretty well in the end.
So, maybe all you need to do is bide your time until they see that you won't fall for it.
No, Jose didn't give in.
Instead, he says they bided their time.
That's a fairly common way of saying to wait patiently.
And sometimes that's what you have to do in a negotiation, especially if someone is applying a lot of pressure.
Now let's try this idiom, to bide your time, with a short dialogue.
So, are you going to agree to the supplier's asking price?
No, I'm just going to bide my time until they agree to come down a bit.
So, does Neil agree that waiting patiently is the right thing to do in this situation?
Right.
That's what I want to do.
But it seems risky just to wait and lose the momentum.
I wouldn't say we've reached a stalemate yet, but it might be almost time to start turning up the heat, if you know what I mean.
Neil is worried that waiting will ruin the momentum, or the speed of progress in the negotiations.
Sometimes, when progress stops completely, we say that we've reached a stalemate or stopped negotiating because we can't agree.
But Neil explains that they haven't reached a stalemate.
And instead of waiting, he thinks maybe he should turn up the heat.
In fact, turning up the heat is the opposite of waiting.
It means applying pressure and pushing the other side for agreement or to compromise.
Okay, first let's practice this expression to reach a stalemate.
The developers and city planners have reached a stalemate over where the new building should be located.
Well, Russ looks like we've reached a stalemate in our talks with Boeing, so don't expect a deal soon.
Now let's try the expression to turn up the heat.
Let's see what their lawyers say if we turn up the heat and demand interest on all the money they owe.
The bank has turned up the heat on Griffin Enterprises, threatening to seize assets if outstanding debt payments aren't made soon.
It sounds like it's a difficult situation Neil is facing in this negotiation.
And Jose's got one more question before the end of the dialogue.
Yeah, so what exactly are they getting hung up on anyway?
Well, some of it is about payment terms.
They're asking for net 90, which is a real stretch.
Jose wants to know what they're getting hung up on.
If you get hung up on something in a discussion or negotiation, you can't get past it.
It becomes a bone of contention, so to speak.
But we're going to have to wait until the next lesson to hear details about what the guys from Singapore are getting hung up on.
Now, let's practice some of the idioms from this lesson.
In a moment, you'll hear a series of sentences.
Each sentence will be followed by a beep.
After the beep, you need to restate or rephrase the sentence using one of the idioms we learned today.
When you listen to the sentence, think about which idea can be replaced by one of the idioms.
For example, if you hear I think, if we just wait patiently, the other side will give us what we want.
You can say, I think if we just bide our time, the other side will give us what we want.
After each response, we'll play the correct answer.
Ready?
Let's give it a go.
Unfortunately, the timeline for the project is something we disagree about.
Answer Unfortunately, the timeline for the project is a bone of contention.
Don't give away too much to the first investor who comes along.
Answer Don't give away the farm to the first investor who comes along.
Instead of a long negotiation, let's just get together and make an agreement quickly.
Instead of a long negotiation, let's just get together and hammer out a deal quickly.
If they don't agree to our demands soon, I think it's time to act aggressively.
If they don't agree to our demands soon, I think it's time to play hardball.
Looks like we'll be signing a deal by Friday unless they do something surprising.
Answer.
Looks like we'll be signing a deal by Friday unless they throw us a curve.
We've reached the end of this lesson, the first of a two-part series on idioms used for discussing negotiations.
In our next lesson we'll hear Jose and Neil talk more about Neil's problems and concerns with this negotiation.
They'll be using lots more great idioms, so be sure to tune in.
Thanks for listening, and see you again soon.
