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Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of iHeartRadio.
Good morning. This is Laura.
Welcome to the Before Breakfast Podcast.
This episode is going to be a longer one, part of the series where I interview fascinating people about how they take their days from great to awesome and any advice they have for the rest of us.
So today I am delighted to welcome Mary Laura Philpott to the program.
Mary Laura is the author of two books of essays, I Miss You When I Blink and Bomb Shelter.
She lives in Nashville.
So Mary Laura, welcome to the show.
Hey, Laura, thanks for having me.
Yeah, thanks for doing this.
So why don't you tell our listeners a little bit more about yourself?
Okay, I live in Nashville, as you said, I'm a brand new empty nester, which has thrown all of my routines just completely out the window and upside down.
I'm a writer. So, you know, there's some portion of my day or my life that's always spent typing and kind of putting my thoughts into words.
I'm an outdoorsy person.
I'm not in like a, you know, camping kind of way, but then I like to look out the window at birds kind of way, which is what I'm doing while I'm talking to you right now on the other side of my screen.
There are birds on the roof outside my office.
And yeah, I'm just like a happy little middle -aged hermit right now.
It's great. I love it.
I love it. So maybe you can talk a little bit about how your career has evolved.
I know you've always been writing in some capacity, but you've done a couple other different things.
Yeah. Yeah. So early, early on, like in my 20s, I did corporate communication.
So that was how I had like a job with health insurance was writing for companies or organizations.
Probably my favorite of those jobs was I worked for the American Cancer Society's National Home Office for a while.
And I loved that. I felt like I had a sense of a mission, but I was also getting to kind of do that good brain crunchie work of working with words every day.
And I transitioned sort of out of that and into freelance writing when I had my first baby.
And I just couldn't figure out how to do the childcare and the corporate life at the same time.
And I wrote for, again, mostly writing for other people, companies.
I did a lot of speech writing.
I did some ghost writing.
And then kind of throughout my 30s, I started tilting the balance more toward writing in my own voice about things that I cared about and publishing those things in magazines, newspapers, that kind of stuff.
And that led to books of essays and memoirs and writing personal nonfiction, which is what my last two books have been, I Miss You When I Blink and Bombshelter.
Yeah. And you did a brief stint in actual bookstore.
Yes, I did. I did. When before I Miss You When I Blink came out for about, well, and kind of during, for about six years, I worked for Parnassus Books, which is an indie bookstore here in Nashville.
And I sort of was, I don't know, I guess I was kind of their marketing director.
We didn't really have titles back then.
But I sort of got their social media started up and it was really fun.
It was a really fun job.
I love, you know, I love bookstores, as you know.
Bookstores are the best ever.
I just hang out there all day.
Yeah, so, you know, both of your books have just been incredibly well -reviewed.
But I know that can always make it a little difficult to try to do the next thing.
Like, well, what am I going to do next?
So you wrote in a recent social media post, though, that you've had what you called a nice gentle year creatively since your last book has come out.
What does that mean to have a nice gentle year creatively?
Oh, man, it's it's something that is really new to me in my life.
I mean, I think one of the things that makes you and I friends is we both love like productivity hacks and we like to be you know, we like to figure out how to maximize our time.
And we both balance a lot of things, you know, we've balanced like parenthood and working and our private lives and our public lives and our interactions with, you know, I don't want to say strangers, but, you know, readers, audiences, that kind of thing.
and I've done that for so long that really crowded balance that when I hit this period of okay so my last book has come out the book tour is over you know there's always that lull where it's like now what are you going to do and like you said that book had been really well reviewed so there was a kind
of a natural tendency in my type a brain to be like how am I going to outdo that one?
You know, where do you even go from here?
And at the same time in my personal life, I was reaching this moment where I had like the last year with a kid under my roof.
My youngest was in her senior year of high school.
It was truly the end of raising children in my house.
And so I had kind of a moment in my grand timeline of life where I had an opportunity to do things differently.
And I wanted to do things differently.
Like, I really wanted to have a shift away from public facing life, away from, you know, hustle, hustle, hustle.
What, you know, what idea do I have next?
How can I pitch it?
Who can I pitch it to?
And just kind of focus on what was here and around me.
And that meant that the creativity part of my life, which of course, creativity and productivity are tightly related when you have a creative job, it quieted down and it got slow.
And I let myself neglect to do things differently.
And I wanted to do things differently.
Like I really wanted to have a shift away from public facing life, away from, you know, hustle, hustle, hustle.
What idea do I have next?
How can I pitch it?
Who can I pitch it to?
And just kind of focus on what was here and around me and that meant that the creativity part of my life which of course creativity and productivity are tightly related when you have a creative job um it quieted down and it got slow and it and I let myself neglect work some in a way that I wouldn't
have at any previous point in my life and it it turned out to be kind of fun and I enjoyed it and it felt like a vacation and I just kept it going and it's great.
Well, that's, that's exciting.
So just, and, and have you been able to like tell yourself like, it's okay.
I mean, I'm very curious because when you're used to, yeah, doing the, like, well, I got to get up and do something, you know, and then you don't do something necessarily that looks like what you've been doing in the past.
And you feel like you're, yeah, you feel like you're breaking the rules.
Like when you had a sick day in school when you were little and you're like, I shouldn't be home during the day.
It's that same sort of feeling at first.
So it took time. It took a pro, it took prolonged practice, actually, to be able to get up and say, I'm not going to go straight to my desk.
I'm going to have my coffee.
And then I am going to go read something.
And then I'm going to do some task that is unrelated to work.
You know, one of the things that made it possible for me to have this prolonged practice until I could get comfortable with this kind of new routine and new life was when my daughter was in her final year of high school.
She's an actor, so she's in acting school and she had all these auditions that she was flying around for.
The life of a high school senior applying to BFA programs is insane, like what they are balancing.
And so I kind of said, hey this is my last year having a kid at home let me be your assistant I will help you book flights I will help you you know with the logistics of this stuff I know you don't want to hang out with me all the time because I'm your mom but you know in whatever way I can help you
I will help you and so I sort of had the practice of let me serve you a little bit and get my mind off myself and that you know as things go in a school year you look up in six months have passed Once some time had passed where I had broken some of those habits of intense productivity, I felt better about it.
But yeah, at the beginning, I felt like, ooh, I am breaking a rule.
I didn't email my agent today.
I'm going to get in trouble.
But, you know, I didn't get in trouble because there's actually no one watching and monitoring and going, how much time did you log at your computer today?
That's not a thing.
It's not a thing. Although that is hard for some of us to realize.
So we're going to take a quick ad break, and then I will be back with more from Mary Laura.
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Well, I am back talking with Mary Laura Philpott, who's the author of two books of essays.
I Miss You When I Blink and Bomb Shelter.
She has been talking about taking her nice, gentle year creatively, which she transitioned to with helping launch her youngest child out of the nest.
But then, you know, you're not hanging up your hat here.
Like, I don't think you're planning on retiring.
No, no, no. So how does one then say, well, I'm open to a new good idea coming to me, but I'm also just going to be patient about it?
I mean, you just said it so well.
it's finding a state of openness and for me, a state of curiosity.
Like I can do anything that I'm curious about.
Like if I care enough to wonder, I can do anything.
And I think that's part of what helped me make this shift from like super productive person to a quieter, slower pace of creativity and productivity.
I was curious about if I sort of disconnected from, Like, if I snipped the wire between my sense of self and what have I produced lately and how has it been received, what would happen?
Like, what would my brain do if I let it just wander around and if I let it consider concepts and even future projects without any sense that they might actually happen or succeed?
Like, I actually am kind of working on something right now that is new and very different from what I've done before.
And I'm approaching it with the sense of this is probably never going to happen.
Like, the odds of this actually working out are so low.
And that is so freeing to be like, I'm just going to work on this.
It's fun. I'm trying something different.
I'm enjoying it. And it probably won't work.
that is so freeing and so fun to sit down and go I am typing and maybe no one will ever see this I wondered like that's what got me that's what kind of got me there is going I wonder what would happen if I worked on something with no sense that it would ever see the light of day and I wonder what would happen
if I let myself some days go I'm not feeling it I'm not going to sit down where where will my brain wander and my brain has wandered to some fun places so with a sense of curiosity then yeah but I think I think what you know as I'm hearing this what one has to kind of do mentally um is be like okay
I know but at some point in the future yes I will produce some wonderful work that I am so proud of to put out into the universe it's going to be there I could even maybe even see it in my brain sitting next to the other books or I don't know, maybe in the future, were you doing some other medium who even
knows what what this future project is.
But so I know it's there.
I know it's there in the future.
I just don't know exactly when I don't know what it looks like.
I can have total faith that this thing will be.
Yes. But I just do not know the timeline.
And I don't have to rush it.
I do not have to rush it.
I think and you probably have experienced this as well.
You know, there's this kind of natural life cycle when you've written more than one book or you've done more than one thing where you see what the time is in between Project 1 and Project 2, and then you kind of subconsciously tie yourself to that timeline.
Like, okay, I had a book in 2019, and then I had a book in 2022, and that means I've got to have another book in 2025.
Actually, once I passed enough time after bomb shelter that it became physically impossible to have a book by 2025, I was like, I've done it.
I'm free. I have slipped the shackles.
I'm free from this three -year thing I had in my brain where I, for whatever dumb reason, thought I have to have a new thing every three years.
And once I got free of it, it felt kind of fun.
But here's the other thing.
It's fun as long as you let it be fun, or that's what I tell myself.
I think the way it would not work for me personally is if I looked at this as a secret hack.
if I was like the secret to actually creating something awesome is telling myself I don't have to create something awesome because I would know there was the ulterior motive you know it's like when you yeah I'm thinking back to being like a very very young single woman and and being like I'm not going
to date anyone because everyone says that's when you meet the one well if that's your if that's the goal well then you're not not looking you know yeah so yeah you I really had to i mean this has been about a year and a half and i would say about midway into it is when i finally like got really comfortable
with the openness and the and the gentleness of letting this creativity be is telling myself i don't have to create something awesome because i would know there was the ulterior motive you know it's like when you yeah i'm thinking back to being like a very very young single woman and and being like
i'm not going to date anyone because everyone says that's when you meet the one well if that's your if that's the goal well then you're not not looking you know yeah so yeah you I really had to I mean this has been about a year and a half and I would say about midway into it is when I finally like got
really comfortable with the openness and the and the gentleness of letting this creativity be and I you know I I pulled back from social media every summer.
I pull back from social media and I usually take a break from my newsletter and summer before last I did that and I didn't really come back.
I mean, I came back a little, I check Instagram every day.
I like to see what people are doing, but I'm not posting all the time.
I still pay the fee to have my mailing list, but I haven't sent my newsletter in a year and a half.
I'll send it again sometime, but I'm not in any rush.
And it's, it's just fun.
How will you know when it's the right idea though?
I have to trust. And I think I'm old enough.
I just turned 50 a few months ago.
And I think I've lived enough cycles of life and creativity and lessons learned to trust that I'll just know the same way I knew that it was time to pull back.
I will know when there's something that makes me go, okay, I want to call my agent today.
Or, you know what? I'm ready to fire this stuff back up and have more give and take with, you know, public facing stuff.
I mean, one of the things I love about your work is, is you're so articulate about what it feels like to have more things going on than there is time in the day.
And I, as a, as a human being tend to crave whatever it is that I don't have enough time to get to.
So when I had little kids at home, and a lot of daily logistical grind stuff happening.
What I craved was time alone and time to do deep work and think.
And I found myself last year when I had my final year with a kid under my roof, as I saw that time dwindling, suddenly what I craved was time at home.
And I was like, okay, you know what?
This is about to be over.
Now what I crave is what I'm about to not have.
which is this, you know, making dinner.
Like I remember the phase of motherhood where it was like, I cannot make another dang dinner for these people.
And last year. Yeah, they need to eat every day.
It's crazy. Feed them once and they think they could just come right back.
They want another meal a couple hours later.
I don't know. Five hours later.
But you know, last year I found myself like making these, not elaborate, but like slow cooking dinners and really cherishing that time because it was about to be over.
And so right now, I think I am enjoying and cherishing what I haven't had for the past several years, which is a break from public -facing stuff and no sense of impending schedule.
And I think there will come a point where I crave something different.
And I'll just have to trust that I'll know when that time is.
Yeah. Right now, you're sort of in the slow mode.
I'm thinking you've got, our listeners can't see this, but you have a poster behind you of your most recent book, which happens to have a turtle on the cover.
I'm a turtle. Is there a tie -in of the turtle and how Mary Laura is sort of operating at the moment?
That's right. I mean, on our back porch, he would come up and we named him Frank, which is, you know, I'm sure not what his turtle mama named him.
But we had to call him something and we see him every now and then.
And he's just, he's wild.
We don't, you know, we don't like feed him breakfast and build him a house.
He lives somewhere out there.
but yeah he's a weird little wild member of our family and he disappeared for a bit um he disappears in the winter he um it's called brumating it's like hibernating sort of like turtles box turtles kind of go into the dirt a little bit and so every spring we kind of hold our breath because he's we can tell
he's he's old every spring we're like is he gonna come back and so far knock on wood we've we've seen him late spring early summer every year it's like ideas, right?
Right. They come back.
The metaphor, it's right there.
After brummating or whatever it is.
I'll think about that now.
That's it. I'm brumating, Laura.
You're brumating. I'm brumating right now.
All right. I love that.
All right. We're going to take one more quick ad break and I will be back with Mary Laura.
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Alright, well, I am back with Mary -Laura Philpott, who is an essayist, writer, author, many things.
So, let's talk a little bit about daily routines, though.
because one of the things I, in the times of my life that have been more open, I felt like it's been helpful to have some sort of daily routine, lest you feel like time is completely amorphous, you know, which maybe you don't suffer from that problem, but I certainly have.
So I wonder if you have any sort of routines that kind of keep you grounded in what a day looks like, even if time is a little bit more open for you.
Yeah, I absolutely have that problem where if I don't have a routine.
I'm like, what even is, like, what did this day even happen?
And, and in the spirit of, of curiosity and wondering what my brain would do if, you know, loosened up from routine, I have had some days, like probably once a week, I have a day where I just stay in my pajamas and I have my coffee at 10 instead of six.
And, and I think some interesting thoughts on those days, but I do feel weird at the end.
Like I get to six o 'clock and I'm like, that was a weird day.
I didn't take my pajamas off.
So I do feel better when there's routine.
And for me, that routine is usually like have the coffee, read some things.
And I mean like not on my phone, like read a piece of a book or read like a really good article by somebody smart.
Walk, I have to move like either walk all around the hills of my neighborhood or go to Pilates or do something where I move my body and go out in the world at least once.
Even if it's just a trip to Walgreens, it helps me to leave my house.
And I keep my laptop these days, I keep it open on my kitchen counter.
Right now you and I are talking and I'm up in my office because that's where my microphone is.
But day to day now in this more gentle kind of unscheduled time, I keep it open and it sits there.
And it doesn't taunt me.
It's not going, it's not guilting me for not working, but it's there.
So usually by afternoon, some thought has bubbled up where I'm like, oh, I'm just going to go jot this down.
And I don't set a timer.
And I don't, you know, give myself any sort of sticker or accountability, anything.
I just jot it. And I sit there for however long I want to sit.
And if it's 10 minutes, fine.
And if it's one minute, great.
And if I don't sit down that day, the computer sits there.
It's not going anywhere.
It's fine. It's a much looser sense of schedule and time than I've ever had.
And as a brand new empty nester, it is the first time in 21 years where the structure of my daytime isn't cut up into school time and not school time.
And that is so new to me that I'm trying to kind of re -familiarize myself with like actual circadian rhythms and actual, you know, three o 'clock as a time of day that is just daytime.
It's not go pick up somebody time.
And that's new. So it's in flux.
it's changing. Yeah.
Do you have some way where you've decided the day is over or is there some point where you transition into evening or anything like that?
Yes, it's well. So right now, as we record this, it is winter in Nashville and Nashville is about five seconds into the central time zone, which means it gets dark in the in the middle of winter, it gets dark at like 330 in the afternoon, which is really weird.
So this is my first winter as an empty nester in Nashville.
So what I was doing for a while was going, well, when the sun goes down, it's evening.
But then the sun started going down at 3 .30.
And I was like, I can't eat dinner.
I remember the evening has come early.
I cannot eat dinner at 3 .30.
This is not cool. So I've sort of tied it to, and this is the lovely thing about being an empty nester.
If you have a partner is you get to spend more time together.
So I've kind of tied it to the end of my husband's workday.
So he works outside our house in an office in kind of a quote -unquote normal job.
So when he comes home at the end of the day, that's when I flip the lid of the laptop.
And it's like, oh, here we are.
Let's have dinner. Let's do our, you know, whatever we do at the end of the day.
So I've made the end of his workday the end of my day, basically.
Yeah, makes sense. Makes sense.
And you don't have to get up at the crack of dawn for somebody's early morning sports schedule or whatever it is.
Yes. Laura, it's amazing.
I can't tell you. I mean, I am a morning person.
I'm not anyone. Even when I was 20, I didn't like to sleep until noon, but just not having to get up at six.
I mean, just staying in the bed till seven.
It is. It's a vacation every day.
Like every morning I'm like, I can't believe I'm in bed and at seven o 'clock.
This is insane. It's great.
Yeah. It's great. Yeah.
No. Well, I'm many years from then, but we'll get there eventually you will get there we have a lot of years of 6 a .m wake up still yes but you know it's all good different phases of life that's right it's ahead of you yeah exactly well so what I always ask guests what is something you have done lately
to take a day from great to awesome I think the the best thing lately has been this and this is kind of a new evening routine um speaking of my husband getting home at the end of the day he does travel some for work and i still travel every now and then for speaking and things but when we were both
home at the same time at night um we have started doing our word games together in the evenings and it started out just kind of like i would do them at the end of the day and then he would do them before we went to bed and then one night at like you know 7 30 we were like oh let's let's play our word
games together okay let's start with wordle and we would sit there do the wordle and then go i got it in three how many did you get it in and then you know and then we would do totally and then we would do connections or you know all the different ones and now we really look forward to it like after dinner
every night he's like okay i'm gonna wash the dishes and then word games so like that has been like the dumbest yet most delightful addition to the day and i love it i love it i look forward to it every night well i was gonna ask you what are you're looking forward to but apparently you're looking forward
to uh wordle tonight i'm looking to wordle in a few hours i'll tell you what i'm looking forward to i have um a wonderful group of friends who have been just girlfriends for all of adulthood and next week we are all getting together for the first time in quite some time we had a trip planned uh the week
that hurricane is it her helene yeah yeah that the week that that hit and basically blasted the entire southeast and it had to be canceled but we managed to reschedule for a bunch of people which as you know is a miracle and i'm really looking forward to seeing them and just and i'm looking forward to wordle
in a few hours i'll tell you what i'm looking forward to i have um a wonderful group of friends who have been just girlfriends for all of adulthood and next week we are all getting together for the first time in quite some time.
We had a trip planned the week that Hurricane...
Is it Helene? Yeah.
Yeah. The week that that hit and basically blasted the entire southeast and it had to be canceled.
But we managed to reschedule for a bunch of people, which as you know, is a miracle.
And I'm really looking forward to seeing them and just relaxing and enjoying one another and just appreciating each other for a few days.
That's awesome. I love it.
I love it. Well, Mary, Laura, thank you so much for joining us.
Thank you for everyone who has been listening to this longer episode.
If you have feedback about this or any other episode, you can always reach me at laura at lauravanderkam .com.
In the meantime, this is Laura.
Thanks for listening.
And here's to making the most of our time.
Thanks for listening to Before Breakfast.
If you've got questions, ideas or feedback, you can reach me at Laura at LauraVandercam .com.
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