Discussion keeps the world turning.
This is Roundtable.
You're listening to Roundtable with myself, He Young.
I'm joined by Steve Hatherly and Yushan in the studio.
Coming up, in a busy city, a middle -aged man eating alone at a noodle shop isn't just about that food.
It's about finding a moment of peace in his world full of demands.
These humble eateries become a quiet sanctuary, offering comfort and a chance to step away from the stress of daily life.
What does this quiet moment say about the emotional weight our brothers, uncles, and fathers carry, often without saying a word?
And need a boost to crush the week?
Our special segment, Motivational Monday, is your ultimate adrenaline shot to kick things off strong.
Our podcast listeners can find us at Roundtable China on Apple Podcast. Now let's switch gears.
In the midst of bustling city streets, there's a quiet corner where middle -aged men often gather, not to socialize or network, but simply to be alone with their thoughts and a bowl of noodles.
Let's open up the conversation about what these humble noodle shops represent, present a quiet space for comfort and invisibility where middle -aged men can catch a gentle breath away from the steady weight they carry as the family's backbone, balancing work, financial responsibilities, and the unspoken support everybody leans on.
So what is it about these small, unassuming noodle shops that draws middle -aged men in after a long day?
It becomes a a trend nowadays isn't it especially in north and china because i would assume the first who observed this trend should be north and chinese because noodles are kind of a stable food here mainly on the north and eastern side while in other parts of china the dishes might vary but here's the thing the noodle restaurants has become say the comfort place for a lot of middle -aged chinese men you know those restaurants that's probably had a one corner of the street that's not very obvious the labels are not you know luxurious of any any kind and the interior design is simple like down
-to -earth kind of style where people can just get in order a bowl of noodle without paying much and just enjoy their pure solitude and quietness of enjoying that ball of noodles and if i'm correct you can find these restaurants almost anywhere and everywhere right It's a really common business idea.
And then, again, I asked colleagues from southern China.
For them, it's probably not noodles all the time.
It can be a bowl of wonton.
It can be a small steam of, what's it called, steamed little bun.
Yeah, so about six to ten buns per dish.
Are you talking about xiaolongbao?
Xiaolongbao, yes. Oh, for southerners.
Oh, so these are the soupy buns.
Oh, I know. I'm very familiar with what that is.
So it's a kind of comfort food that's available and affordable and it's also stomach feeling to a point that you can just enjoy it yourself without extra socializing.
And the whole idea becomes so trendy and so popular among middle -aged men nowadays.
I wonder if there's something like that for Canadian middle -aged men.
Good question. Maybe chicken wings, but I don't think that's age specific.
I'm just thinking off the top of my head.
You go out with the guys, you grab a beer and some wings.
That's kind of like a cultural comfort food and it goes together well with sports and that kind of environment.
But in terms of we're not talking going out with friends here, right?
This is a solo endeavor.
I don't think we have any food.
I could be wrong, but nothing comes to mind for a Western food that matches with kind of a middle aged need a break from life environment.
Well, for middle aged dudes, I can totally picture this as I've seen quite a few videos before coming onto the show.
The classic scene is after a long day and his suit, his shirt could be a little wrinkled.
His hair is a little greasy and messy.
He stumbles in and he doesn't speak to anybody.
buddy and while in China you kind of just scan the QR code or maybe if you're a repeated customer and then the noodle shop owner will just give you a nod.
Know what you want.
Yes and then a bowl of unassuming humble noodles hot in soup is delivered and then the guy also grabs a bottle of beer and also there must be a few cloves of raw garlic that he puts into the noodles and then he crunches on the garlic almost brings a tear to his eye and it's just a loner experience but it's so relaxing i think this is something that's shared in korean culture through film because you see this a lot as well in tv dramas and movies where after a hard day's work or if something dramatic is happening in the person's life, and it could be a man or a woman, they'll go out to the restaurant
by themselves and have some of that comfort food and sit there and say like, how am I going to solve this problem?
Like that kind of thing.
Yeah. It's cheap, it's carbs, it fills you up, and it buys you the solace.
And I suppose when you get older and that just becomes kind of a increasingly rare thing because maybe you've started a family.
If not, you have a boyfriend or girlfriend or whatever it is, because you are taking up more social roles, and then just having a moment for yourself becomes a little bit rare.
And when we look closer, this appeal isn't just about the solitude, it mirrors something perhaps deeper.
It reflects how middle aged men are navigating a stage of life that's often filled with pressure.
And shall I say endurance?
What What kinds of social and emotional expectations are placed on middle -aged men today?
And how might that explain their craving for a place that they don't have to perform?
Well, at least here in the case in China, a lot of middle -aged men are often the primary breadwinners in the family, of course.
And they're facing job stability or instability and family responsibilities and also pulling up a good move for the kid, let's say.
and yeah I'm saying this this is for middle -aged men but it's perhaps for all people men or men or women but a lot of the times the middle -aged men they are usually portrayed to endure things silently like you said Steve in the tv dramas here in China too a lot of a lot of the times middle -aged men they're expected to just sit there and digest on things big or small issues on their their own facing a bowl of noodles or whatever.
So in many cases, these comfort food, noodles, wonton, whatever, it almost represents their life.
Like it's something that you can expect the taste, the formality, the feeling after you eat it.
So it's something that's so routine, that's not excited at all, but that's just a place of solitude and a place where you don't need to pull pull up your facial muscle to have any facial expressions at all for you to just be yourself.
I mean, I totally get it, right?
Yeah, this doesn't, you know, we're talking about this trend happening here in China with middle -aged men.
This could be women too.
This could be for anyone, right?
But the reason I say I get it is because it's the third place, isn't it?
The noodle shop has become the third place for this demographic.
And you go to work all day, And it's a long working day.
There's a lot of pressure.
There's a lot of interactions.
There's a lot of decisions that are made, important decisions that are made.
Then when you go home, if you have a family, if you're married with kids, then you have to take off the work hat and put on the dad hat or the partner hat.
And so that trip home, that little brief stop at the noodle shop, that's just giving these guys a moment to, okay, Okay, get ready for the next responsibility of the day.
I get it. I think it's a healthy thing.
And sometimes if you have to go home for dinner, let's say, some men that I heard of, they can probably spend that man cave time not in the restaurant but in their car.
They're going to park their car and stay inside the car for about 20 minutes and then head upstairs.
I'm not sure if you guys had met people like that before.
We've talked about this on a previous show, and we had so many comments.
I didn't know that middle -aged men, excuse me, are our target audience, but they did march out of the woodworks and say, oh, I can feel that.
And I, as a woman, and back then when the show was aired a few years ago, as a younger Chinese woman, but I felt it too.
Two, it resonates with anybody, I think, craving the third place and a free third place, I suppose, because you kind of need to just have a moment before you put on that other hat to switch between these roles we play.
100%. And a lot of the pressure that we as individuals feel, men and women, but I'm a man, so I'll speak to that, is stuff that you don't speak about.
Right. Right. And we've talked about this on the show before, too.
And the reasons we don't speak about it, it's kind of like it transcends Chinese culture, transcends Canadian culture.
It's it's it's something that you just if you weren't raised to express your feelings and a lot of middle aged men.
Right. I think this is fair to say.
I was reading a story this morning on the Internet.
It was he was a writer and he was saying when he grew up, he didn't have literature as a young boy to teach him how to comfortably express his emotions.
He was in his mid 40s.
So he grew up as an adult male and he was going to therapy, learning how to express himself properly.
And he didn't have those means when he was when he was a kid.
So a lot of the back to my point, a lot of the things that are felt, you don't get a chance to speak about them or you don't know how to speak about them.
them so that's all it can take sometimes it's just a little break i remember seeing a stand -up comedian a single dad he had two little girls they were five and four years old and uh he said you know i take the kids and we go grocery shopping and when we come out of the the grocery store and i put the groceries in the car and then i put the girls in the car and i closed the door on the passenger's side he said the moment that I walk the time to walk around from the passenger side to the driver's side I just take an extra break before I open that door it's like okay and then the door opens daddy
daddy can I have that snack he was saying like that's a mini vacation for him when he walks around the car so again I get it you know it's just a little break Break from life.
Enjoy a bowl of noodles.
And you mentioned about how to express your feelings, I suppose, especially if a man feels maybe culturally and maybe uncomfortable to say too much or whatever it is.
I remember last Friday when we did the show on man keeping, you, Steve, said very briefly something about your unthinkable of your father complaining about life or stuff like that.
And I find that to be difficult from my loving father as well.
And he belongs to a generation of Chinese men.
And we don't get so many of them anymore, may I say, that, you know, very down to earth and thinks that, you know, families first and work really hard and work their socks off to provide for family.
And, but I thought, you know, what, yeah, and I've never seen him complain about life getting hard. I've heard him complain about difficult to get clients sometimes and, but he would.
And anyway, so he picked up tennis and that's like a useful hobby to get some, the energy out and to get some physical exercise or whatnot.
Not in any way my point here being, I think for previous generation of men, maybe they didn't complain or express themselves similarly to how women socialize, but they can find ways to deal with these situations and stress.
If we want to talk about China specifically, there was a 2019 China mental health survey that pointed out that over 30 percent of middle aged men experience long term emotional issues like anxiety and depression, but few actively seek professional help.
help that probably is another issue for another day but it just goes to show that a large percentage of that age group 30 it's a lot of people right talking about long -term emotional issues and i can say this sometimes you don't need um a long deep emotional outlet you know sometimes that's great but some sometimes all you need is a bowl and noodles sometimes all you all All you need is to sit in your car for 20 minutes and just chill out and take a break.
Don't talk to anybody.
And that can be enough.
That can be enough.
In many cases, I think, like you mentioned, Steve, men eating alone, whether it's a bowl of noodles or not, whatever, is just to avoid judgments.
It's mirroring, in a way, mirroring how they often internalize stress.
And while speaking up about it means showing weakness, as many of them might perceive, eating alone is one way of just self -processing all of that stress.
It's something that I feel less capable of echoing with in so many ways.
I do feel like, yeah, I need 10 minutes in the car before joining my family every Friday evening because I'm so used to living alone.
And then living with my parents is just bringing things to a whole new level.
So, yeah, in some cases, I think I do understand.
But yeah, we need to give these men their cave time, their solitude, especially if it's something as simple as a bowl of noodles that they require.
This choice of retreat doesn't exist in a vacuum, right?
Broader social and economic changes, I can think of urbanization, changing family dynamics, and a more individualistic lifestyle, they're all affecting how people cope with stress and loneliness.
And well, eating alone in a noodle shop, it perhaps can give people a sense of stability or control.
That's great. And I'm also thinking, don't straight men already get so much more than other groups?
Especially if you look at middle -aged men are usually the people who are occupying the most decisive roles in any organization.
And I'm not saying that we need to target them this way to understand what's going on.
But how do we talk about the emotional struggles of straight men without overlooking the very real challenges faced by all groups?
Well, I think just because you're talking about one group doesn't mean you're ignoring another group.
Right. Just because we're saying that, you know, working middle -aged Chinese men wear many hats.
They're very busy at work.
If they're not in a senior management position, maybe they're mistreated somehow at the office in some way, or there's a lot of work pressure there.
They have that on their shoulders.
they go home they have to be a husband they have to be a father so they don't have a lot of time to discover themselves when we talk about this we're not saying that moms don't go through that exact same thing you see exactly where i was going we're not saying that though right it's it is possible to talk about one group without ignoring without saying that the other group doesn't experience those exact same things because of course everybody knows a mom is a superwoman is a superhero uh but here but but sorry let's not say that either i just had this conversation with a mom and she was voicing
something that her and her girlfriends talked about when we keep on saying moms are superheroes that almost robs their ability to take a breather to have the agency and license to say, well, actually, mama needs a breather too.
But that's exactly what I'm saying, though.
That's what I'm saying is that, of course, moms would go through similar things.
And of course, moms deserve that too.
And I'm not trying to get into a battle of the sexes here.
Of course not. But you just brought up, well, how can we have this conversation without talking about other groups?
Well, we can talk about other groups, of course.
But it's just to say that, yeah, you're right.
Right. It's not just middle -aged men who need a breather and need a break.
Of course, everybody not only needs one, but deserves one as well.
And I do think that in many cultures, straight middle -aged men are often expected to be the providers, stoic, self -sufficient, and often discouraged from showing emotional need or weakness.
So while they may enjoy many systematic privileges in many societies, but more representation, more discussion, I think is always needed.
Anyhow, I think while they might not lack that kind of social positioning overall, but they often lack permission to feel Or to ask for help without stigma.
And that's why I think it's so great to acknowledge this new nuance.
Men may not be the marginalized in all areas, but emotional support and visibility are not always part of their package either.
either. And that I would like to shine some light on and all those other areas that we didn't have the time to go into great depth, but it's good to mention as well.
That was a good chat.
Yeah. I think so too.
Coming up next, Motivational Monday.
Monday Steve you have something very appropriate for today yeah um I discovered an author many years ago well I didn't discover the super famous and everybody on the internet was talking about Paulo Coelho.
That's how I discovered Paulo Coelho.
Brazilian author, I believe, wrote The Alchemist, which was a pretty famous book.
And he said, and I chose this today because it relates to what we were just talking about.
He said this, if you are never alone, you cannot know yourself.
And I think this is a really great quote because of all the things we just discussed.
You know, People are always busy.
We're always with our coworkers or our family or our friends.
We're always on the move.
We're always consuming content, watching something, listening to something.
Thank you for tuning into Roundtable today.
But while we're doing all of those things, you never have time to focus on just you.
So it's motivational for me.
If you're never alone, you can't know know yourself because we often look at boredom as a bad thing and we often look at being alone as a bad thing but I think it can be a great thing that has a lot of benefits you just have to be aware of that time and use it very well when you are spending time by yourself.
Wow I think that's something that's so useful for from whatever age group because yeah as young Young people nowadays, we tend to feel like there's all that kind of opportunities out there via social media.
People are always giving us examples of what life should be like from a different angle.
And if you are buried in all that and trying to think about what's becoming of me, if I go through that, then you're gradually losing the self.
I think the more you swipe on those videos and reels that demonstrates the different sides of life.
So so yeah, I would definitely use that advice.
I think yeah Do you agree that we don't spend enough time Really thinking about like who you who I am.
What am I doing? Where am I in this life at this particular stage?
I think we don't spend a lot of time on it It's almost like medication.
Sorry meditation Yeah Some what you just feel the self you feel your breath and you feel the very existence of your being for that moment Yeah, I think for most people, it's extremely difficult to find the peace and to feel comfortable and be able to achieve that kind of introspection.
And to be able to do so is truly to be present.
And actually, that is something that is a fantastic place to be.
And that brings us to the end to today's show.
And we'll see you next time.
