Hello listeners.
You're listening to the fluent mind esl podcast.
I'm here with my co-host jack, and my name is social, and today we're going to be discussing harry potter, the series of books, and whether or not harry potter should be considered a classic.
Um jack, what is your opinion?
Yeah, so i think that um, you know whether something becomes a classic or not.
I mean, i guess you know, time will tell, right?
Um, because a classic is.
You know, a hundred years from now, people are still going to be uh, reading and telling those stories.
Um, it'll be, you know, as if it always existed, you know what I mean?
Like it, it kind of, you'd never even think about like a pre Harry Potter time.
It's just just something that um kids will kind of grow up thinking that it's always been around, you know.
Right.
Like the ghost Christmas past or Goldilocks or, um, Yeah, exactly, exactly.
Yeah, exactly, like Goldilocks.
No, what?
Fairy tales.
Sorry, go ahead.
Yeah, all the fairy tales, Grimm's tales.
I just think, Harry Potter.
It's pretty obvious that it will be.
If it's not already a classic, it will definitely be considered a classic, a children's classic.
I think it's still...
But I think with all classics, I don't think it was necessarily written just for children.
Well, actually, I think J.K.
Rowling did write it for children.
I think she wrote it for her own children, if I'm not mistaken.
It was like a story that she was telling her kids.
But like all classics...
You end up.
You know most of the people that I knew that were reading Harry Potter were in their 20s, 30s and 40s.
You know what I mean?
It wasn't just it wasn't kids.
It was adults that were reading these books and they were completely engaged in them.
And so I think that's like a sign of a classic is that it may have been written with the intention of being a kid's book, but it's not.
It's it's it's for everybody.
You know, if you like reading, if you're into fantasy.
Then just like Lord of the Rings, you know, a lot of people will dismiss it as like a kid's book.
But I think Tolkien was, you know, writing it for for everybody, you know.
And so I don't know.
What do you think about that?
Like, do you think it's a kid's book or do you think it's like, you know?
I think it's a classic, and classics can be children's literature, you know, like Goldilocks, Red Riding Hood, Snow White.
But I think they can be appreciated by everyone.
And I remember my dad.
I guess he was in his 30s and 40s when he he read The Lord of the Rings to us.
He read Harry Potter to us.
Both of those when we were little children.
I still remember he would call Hermione Hermione.
I don't know where he got that.
But I actually got in a fight with a kid in kindergarten because I said it's not Hermione's Hermione, only to be miserably wrong.
Because you're so your parent, your dad's just like, you know, he's he's the expert, you know, like you wouldn't lead me the wrong way, you know. he's such a smart guy it's like crazy that i mean i think it's just because it's like such an uncommon name for us in the u.s yeah and it's got a weird pronunciation weird spelling so yeah yeah hermione is not as pretty as hermione hermione is gonna become a meme now but um so yeah so i think it definitely had a classics place and people saw the vision which is why It became such a viral before viral children's series.
You know, the movies, everything like even nowadays, they still make Harry Potter makeup.
I went to Walmart the other day and there was Profusion Cosmetics made a Harry Potter costume.
And I bought makeup from because I thought it was so cool.
So it's like these it just has classics.
And I was in Walmart, you know, and I was like, I was looking at something in another aisle.
And there was a like a potions kit and children were like walking by and asking their kids, asking their parents, for the Harry Potter potions kit, and so you, you know, like it still clicks with the younger, the youngest generation of children, of little children.
The actors that made that, that were in that show, in the movie, are like in their 40s now or something.
You know 30s 40s, it's in the 30s, i think.
Yeah yeah, the the youngest yeah, because they were, they were quite a bit older than me, i guess.
Yeah yeah, i think it's.
It's wild to me.
Yeah.
But I do think that, you know, they will be classics because ultimately a classic is something that, like you said, will be appreciated hundreds of years from now.
And that cross-culturally has an impact too.
I've seen how popular, I don't know how it is in Korea, Jack.
I know it's very popular in Mexico as well.
Harry Potter.
Oh yeah.
Sure.
Sure.
All the kids, all my students know Harry Potter very well.
Yeah.
If they haven't read the books, they've at least seen the movies for sure.
Yeah.
I think that just pinpoints how in the books and the movies are very different.
So for our listeners who have only seen the movies, I highly recommend that you read the books, because I'm going to go back and read the books myself, because I think just, we have the whole collection of books at my house, but my dad read them to us when I was a child.
So I don't think I've ever read them independently.
So I definitely would like to do that.
But yeah, it's very interesting.
I definitely think that it'll be considered a classic.
And I think it marks a different time when things that were like, like children's series and stuff were meant for everyone to enjoy. yeah yeah i think it was uh less niche i guess we could say like it was less like micro targeted to just children and more like family like they used to call it like family movies or family books because like it was something for every like the parents and the children could enjoy at every age group and there were jokes that would like go above a child's head but were still appropriate enough to be in children's movies you know but that would be funnier to adults like you see that with all kinds of different i mean disney shrek is a great example of that you know because it's got it's got jokes in there that are like you know almost dirty but like but the kids would never understand it but parents are making connections and so yeah it's just like it's such good writing you know um yeah my childhood i feel like was the last one that really pushed that we had harry potter shrek spongebob um adventure time i feel like maybe your daughter as well but these youngest generations like demon k-pop demon slayers or something so crazy and then wait i know people my age who watch that though i'm like oh i can't i literally can't watch it or are they uh like cocomelon and stuff that's like just for little little kids yeah like teletubbies or something like that that was yeah back in the day um i think we we'd uh i would be remiss if i didn't mention that i think i think there's a there is a template for this uh there's like telling the story right the right way is you is but is what uh joseph campbell calls the hero's journey and it's like anytime like a story follows that that path um it's it's like it hits us like it's very similar like memology because it hits us on like a dna level like it transcends culture it transcends uh race you know it just goes right to it just cuts to the bone of our humanity and the if i look i'm just looking at the story circle of that joseph campbell outlines in in his book the hero's journey and it you know starts with like um the characters at home in the there's some kind of call to adventure, you know, like the, the hero has to, has to go do something.
And, um, then the next stage is that there's a, the, the hero is, uh, is scared.
It's called the refusal.
So there's kind of like a you know the hero's given an opportunity to embark on an adventure, but they, the hero, refuses.
And then a mentor appears, a helper.
And, uh, Convinces the hero to take a step into the new world, which is crossing the threshold.
So that's like the point of no return.
You know, the hero has now embarked on the journey and there's no going back.
The hero makes friends along the way and also enemies.
So, I mean, Harry Potter is just hitting all of these, you know what I mean?
Yeah.
Melvoy and then Hermione and what's Ron?
Ron was my favorite.
Yeah.
Cause it's like in every hero's journey, there's always like the kind of goofy friend.
You know that like throws on the ground and stomps on his hat, you know.
And then there's the, a big scary test.
And then there's there's, and then, once the hero passes that the big scary test, There's the treasure.
And then the hero returns home.
Usually there's one more test beyond that.
And then the hero comes home a changed person.
And you know that, like the Harry Potter story, when he gets back he's a totally different person than he was when he left the house in the beginning of that movie or that book.
Not only is he a changed person, the entire world has changed.
Because of his life and his journey.
And I think there are like little niche things that JK Rowling didn't even intend, because she's a controversial figure for sure.
But I thought that she and she, she has even disagreed with certain things that she chose to do in the series.
Like, she doesn't think that Ron and Hermione should have ended up together.
She thinks like the better literary choice would have been for Harry and Hermione to end up together, for example.
Yeah, that's what I always thought.
I never understood why Harry didn't end up with Hermione.
I preferred the Ron ending up with Hermione because I felt like she did these little like micro changes to the typical hero story where you know the two supporting characters to his journey like end up together and i don't know.
It was just more special and unique that way because every single like children's book that you read about with is like it the main character always ends up with the female main character.
It's just very cliche Yeah, and it's okay because it doesn't change the trajectory of the hero's journey.
You know what I mean?
It's Harry's story.
Like he is certainly a changed person when he comes back, you know?
Like he is – the scales have fallen off of his eyes, you know?
And he can never see the world the same way again, you know?
And I think that's true for people too, you know?
Like for all of us, like we're always on this, like some – some segment of this wheel of the hero's journey is our own life, you know.
Like.
You can't go and teach for a year in Korea and then come back and be the same person that you were before you left, you know.
Yeah.
But we know plenty of people that have never lived, you know, outside of the city they grew up in, you know.
Yeah.
And so...
And you know how that mentality and the thinking that goes with people that are scared to cross the threshold and face the monster, you know, because once you overcome that fear and find success, you bring home.
If you return home again, you bring something back with you, you know.
You're not coming, you're not the same person that you were when you left, you know.
And I think that resonates with people on such a molecular level.
If you tell the story right, it'll become a classic.
And Star Wars is another example.
We'll still be talking about Darth Vader 100 years from now.
Religions might emerge from these things.
You know what I mean?
There's just no stopping it.
The momentum is too strong.
And Harry Potter is hundred percent in that same ballpark, you know, in the same, in that same basket.
Um, as you know, she told the story perfectly.
Like she.
You know it's it's uh, it's.
We're stuck with Harry Potter forever.
You know, like it's a, it's a classic.
There's just no doubt about it.
Just one thing I want to add um before we wrap things up here, is I feel that every single um piece of literature or show movie, whatever that I've really enjoyed.
On that same level, the inner world is so rich, like from the food they eat to the traditions of the holidays, to you know what the everything, every little detail is so rich and ties together.
And Harry Potter is one of those things that is, I mean, every small detail from like the Dementors to Patronus to eating chocolate to the kind of candies they have at Hogwarts to butter beer, like every little thing is so, so important. intricate it's like it's world building you know what i mean yes she's so good you know it's like it's not it's it's it's like um yeah i it's you almost feel like it's it exists like it yeah and if you were to live immerse yourself in that world you know like you said like you can i i think that even like good writing like that is when you're world building like that like you know if you can do what tolkien does what jk rowling does or C.S.
Lewis with the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, the Narnia books.
You're almost like letting the audience fill in the blanks.
Like they, they understand the rules of the world.
You know like, even if they don't talk about it in the book you, you know like, Oh yeah, that's what a door would look like in in Harry Potter book.
You know, like you just, you just have it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's like, it's so deep that you can visualize it and immerse yourself into the world.
I think that's something that makes it, Super unique.
And that's what the movies actually diminish it, I think, because there's no there's just nothing compares to the human creative mind, you know, the imagination.
And so, you know, that's why you encouraged our listeners to read those books.
I think reading them is a richer experience, even visually, because you have your own imagination that will fill in the blanks.
But you have such a such a masterful guide in the writing that.
You know, it's going to be a richer experience, even though it sounds counterintuitive.
I think it would be in the movies.
You're letting someone else kind of visualize it for you.
And I think it's a richer experience to do it yourself.
Definitely.
Definitely.
So, yeah, I think ultimately I do think it's a classic.
And me, too.
Yeah.
I wonder what our students think.
Yeah, absolutely.
Let us know and send us.
Sorry, I'm supposed to bring us out here.
You keep giving me hints and I'm just kind of standing here like a quietly, it's better if we don't edit this out.
We let our students see the behind the scenes students, how the sausage is made, you know yeah, we've switched roles.
I bring us in and jack is taking us out.
So well, he might be taking us out.
Yeah, we'll see if i can pull this, if i can stick the landing here.
Um so uh, after five or six hints from social, now i'm going to uh take us out here.
So let us know what you think about whether Harry Potter is a classic or not.
You can send us an email at A to Z English podcast at Gmail dot com.
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And yeah, we just really appreciate our listeners out there.
And yeah, we'll see you next week.
Thanks, everybody.
Bye bye.
Bye.
Thank you.
Thank you.
