From the brains behind Brains On it's Smash Boom Best, The show for people with big opinions.
Hi, I'm Molly Bloom and this is Smash Boom Best, the show where we take two things and smash them together and ask you to decide which one is best. Today we're climbing to the top of Mount Olympus to witness a battle between two of the greatest Greek gods.
It's Artemis versus Apollo.
Artemis has her bow and arrow ready for a heartless hunt and Apollo has a pocket full of nasty plagues.
These two gorgeous gods will give it their all but which twin will win?
It's going to be a tough call.
Luckily we've got Asenot here from Los Angeles to choose a winner.
Hi Asenot! Hi! So Asenot, what do you know about Greek Gods?
Absolutely nothing.
So I am here to learn all about them.
Wonderful. So we have a blank slate to start with are there any other gods from other cultures that you're familiar with?
yeah, so I Love reading about Aztec gods Very cool.
Do you have a favorite God that you've learned about?
Yeah, the goddess of water and Asta culture Charles shield click away She's just like amazing and so beautiful Cool.
So how have you learned about those gods?
So I'm a debater actually I teach people at my school how to debate.
And when I did debate competitively, most of the debates that I would do were identity -based.
So a lot of this had to do with how my body relates to nature or like how my mind relates to nature and the borders that there are.
That is very, very cool.
And so as a debate coach, I would also love to know, do you have any tips for our debaters today?
Obviously, know your judge.
Also make the debate fun because, like, I wanna be able to enjoy it and also learn from this but I want it to stick in my mind.
Very excellent advice.
I can see that you are a really good debate coach. Your students are lucky.
All right, it's time to meet our godly defenders.
Here to shout Artemis' praises, it's radio producer Jed Kim.
Hey, Jed. Full of Artemis.
Reppin' Artemis. So, Jed, in a single sentence, why is Artemis the smash boom queen?
Man, Artemis is a deadly hunter she always kills it especially in this debate.
Hmm and here to sing the truth of Apollo it's podcast producer Ruby Guthrie hey Ruby!
helloooooo So Ruby in one sentence, why is Apollo the definition of cool?
Apollo is the coolest because he's a jack -of -all -trades who uses music, healing, and prophecy to light up our world.
The sibling rivalry is thick already, alright here is a show breakdown.
We've got four rounds of debate.
Round one is the Declaration of Greatness where our debaters will present a fact -filled argument in favor of their side and then respond to their opponents' declaration in a 30 -second rebuttal.
Next we've got the Micro -Round where both teams will present a fun, creative response to a prompt they received in advance.
Round 3 is the Sneak Attack, where debaters will respond to an exciting challenge on the spot.
And to wrap it all up we've got the final six, where each team will have just six words to drive home the glory of their side.
Our judge Asenat will award two points in the first round, one for her favorite rebuttal and one for the declaration she likes best. Then she'll award one point in each round after that, but she'll keep her decisions secret until the end of the debate.
Listeners, we want you to judge too.
Mark down your points as you listen, and then, at the end of the show, head to our website, smashboom .org, and vote for whichever team you think won.
OK, everybody. Are you ready?
Yeah, let's start -a Miss!
Apollo, yeah! Ugh! Was born ready.
Then it's time for the… Declaration of Greatness.
Our debaters will present the most fascinating facts and awesome arguments in favor of their side.
We flipped a coin and Jed, you're up first. Let Artemis's arrows fly.
Preparing for one of these declarations is hard. So hard. Especially when there's so much good stuff to choose from.
Too much! I mean, Artemis, deadly with a bow and arrow.
Yeah. Doesn't put up with nonsense from anyone.
Nope. And she does cool stuff all the time.
All the time. She once turned into a deer and ran between two attacking giants and got them to shoot each other.
That's like from a movie.
Then you've got the Temple of Artemis, which was one of the seven wonders of the ancient world.
What should I include?
Mmm. Fortunately, my 10 -year -old niece Eloise is a huge expert on Artemis.
She is Eloise's favorite Greek deity.
Well, first of all, I like archery.
Second, I like the wilderness.
And she's the goddess of, like, you know, wilderness and stuff.
She's the cool girl that no one can touch, but she's like not like super popular or anything.
She's like, you know, quiet coolness.
If you know what I mean.
Quiet coolness. And then I learned something that made me feel like Zeus himself was smiling down on me.
Ha, ha, ha, I'm good, I'm done.
See, Eloise's best friend Quinn's favorite guy is Apollo.
And? And they constantly debate which one is better.
So? So! I can watch them debate and then cherry pick the best argument!
Hahahahaha! Like when Quinn made a strong point in favor of Apollo.
He's the god of healing and medicine, so he heals people!
Like an Artemis who kills people!
Well, I guess not people, but animals!
Mm, hmm. Apollo is the god of disease.
This is a good point!
Apollo doesn't just bring healing, he also brings disease.
witch during this pandemic, I gotta say, thanks a lot, Apollo!
Artemis, on the other hand, she's the goddess of the outdoors.
And the outdoors have been our refuge these past couple years, huh?
But what's this about killing animals?
She's the goddess of the hunt?!
So what do you expect her to do, not hunt?
In ancient times, hunting was hugely important for food and survival, but it's also more than that.
According to classics expert Catherine Mardax from the University of Chicago library The hunt shows up for actual sustenance, but more often than not in mythological stories there is something menacing the land and it needs to be hunted.
She said, sometimes there'd be a lion.
Or it's a wild boar.
There's something killing everything.
It was up to Artemis to take care of it.
Maybe it was her and her warrior maidens that saved the day.
or a hero that she inspired.
As goddess of the hunt, she's a superhero.
She's essentially Captain America calling the Avengers to assemble.
Her amazing exploits began at a young age, like, really young.
Immediately after being born, she turned around and helped her mother deliver her twin brother Apollo.
So right away, you know, would he even be around if it weren't for his older twin sister.
But even though Artemis is older and more responsible, she still knows how to have fun.
In fact, she asked her father Zeus to let her stay a maiden forever, which meant she got to stay young, and wild, and powerful.
See back in ancient times, after a woman got married, her husband got to call all the shots in everything.
If Artemis had gotten married, she wouldn't have been as powerful a goddess.
Instead, she kept her freedom, kept her power.
That choice made her one of humanity's first feminist role models.
Alright, let's check back in on the debate between my niece and her friend.
Yeah well guess what buddy, it didn't happen.
Yeah because Apollo was kind and - Apollo was gullible!
Oh he was kind! Oof, things are heating up.
Actually, this helps clarify one thing that I used to find confusing about Artemis.
She's a protector of the innocent, but at the same time, she was capable of terrible violence.
...how can you reconcile childhood and ferocity?
Well... I don't use the same, you understand?!
Now I understand that Artemis isn't a contradiction, she's a perfect encapsulation of how innocence can be blended with complete and utter savagery.
That goes on and on and on.
In other words, while Apollo is someone's idea of what a god is supposed to be, Artemis is the real deal.
Artemis is superior!
Finally, let's just look at the names.
Rearrange the letters in Artemis, and you get smarty.
And that's what she was from a young age.
What do you get when you rearrange Apollo?
Well, he's all poo.
Game set. Checkmate!
Jed, calling in the big guns with Eloise, there, as backup.
I don't like doing my own work.
She was excellent. Asana, what stood out to you there about Jed's declaration of greatness?
Everything from the neiss debating with their friend to the comparison and symbolism that they had for Artemis and the way that they compared innocence and, like, violence and how they're interacting with each other.
Yeah! I got that symbolism down!
Well, Ruby. It's time for your rebuttal.
You've got 30 seconds to make Artemis weep, and your time starts now.
OK, Jed. You're artemis -ing the point here.
You mention this duality that Artemis has, and then you're coming back being like, oh, medicine, oh, disease, that's also duality, And that's also powerful.
Also, like, okay. Thanks Artemis for helping birth Apollo.
But by far, Apollo is the cooler sibling.
He can do a lot of the stuff that Artemis does like archery and he's a protector as well.
Plus he can do so many other things like music.
I don't know what to say.
I always do. Is Apollo good at watching time?
Uh, doesn't matter.
I'm not Apollo. I'm here on his behalf, Jed.
Ruby, I know you have more to say, so it's time for your Declaration.
Tell us why Apollo is the Golden God.
Hey, Asunat, hop in!
Sweet ride. Am I right?
This is just Apollo's golden chariot, led by none other than his trusty swans.
Apollo. Son of Zeus and Leta.
Twin to Artemis and god of music, poetry, dance, light, archery, healing, prophecy, you name it.
He's definitely the coolest Greek god around.
Not to mention, a total rockstar.
And as Apollo's new tour manager, I get to use his chariot to pick up VIP guests just like you.
Speaking of, we're heading straight to the stadium where Apollo is kicking off his world tour.
Buckle up! Okay, we've arrived!
Time to rock and roll!
Oh, my Greek God, it's Apollo's chariot!
These are just some of Apollo's adoring fans!
He is like so handsome, oh!
Okay, okay, okay. Good looks aside, Apollo is a truly talented dude, especially when it comes to melodies.
I mean, after all, he is the god of music, poetry, and song.
He's best known for playing a small harp called The Liar, which he absolutely shreds!
Let's go to soundcheck and watch. Apollo!
Sounding good, my friend?
Hello, mortals, it's a pleasure to meet.
Welcome to the stage, you're in for a treat.
Being the god of poetry and lyrics and all, he tends to rhyme from time to time.
Oh, he even has me doing it, see?
But it's great. I mean, just imagine living without poetry, songs, music.
We're lucky that Apollo graced our world with the most divine of creative forces.
And if his talents are put into question, Apollo gets competitive.
Like when this dude, Marsyas, challenged him to a musical duel.
Picture this. Marsyas on the flute.
Apollo with his signature lyre.
And the judges? None other than the Muses.
A group of inspirational goddesses who ruled over the arts.
The competition was fierce.
Marsyas started with a face -melting flute solo!
So, Apollo had to heat things up.
Marsyas, bet you can't play upside down.
You. Are. On. It's really hard to play the flute upside down.
That's it! We've decided.
The winner is...Apollo!
Yes! In addition to being a strong competitor, Apollo is also a fierce protector.
I mean, he slayed a python when he was just four days old.
That's why he's known as the Averder of Evil.
Some Ancient Greeks even put pillars of Apollo outside of their homes or on the city gates.
All to ward off bad vibes.
As a natural -born healer, Apollo also protects people with his power of medicine.
But don't get it twisted, because if you cross him, he can just as easily harness the power of disease, like he did in the Trojan War.
After the Greeks captured Chrysaeus, the daughter of Apollo's priests, Apollo shot diseased arrows towards the Greeks' camp, resulting in a deadly plague.
So, the Greeks surrendered and returned Chryseus.
On a lighter note, Apollo is also the god of Sun, and, well, light, which is great on tour because we save big bucks on lighting.
But it's also about the metaphorical life.
The power of truth, rationality, and prophecy.
This was especially honored at the Temple of Delphi, Apollo's main sanctuary, where Ancient Greeks came to worship the oracle and seek guidance on everything, from personal matters to major political decisions, like starting new colonies or waging wars.
Even philosophers like Plato and Socrates were huge fans.
Hey, Ruby, I don't mean to interrupt, but I noticed you've been taking a lot of shrimp from catering and stashing it on the tour bus.
You must leave more for others, you're being quite shellfish.
Yeah, I can't argue with that, Apollo, you're not wrong.
Of course not. I'm the god of truth.
You got me there, boss.
So whether you need an honest opinion, a thoughtful medic, or a totally awesome rock star, Apollo is a jack of all trades.
Hit it. Come one, come all.
Listen to the tune of my lyre.
I'm here to bring light and I aim to inspire So let's dance.
Let's sing. Let's get wild.
Apollo, Apollo, the golden child What can I say, Apollo rocks.
Truly a rockin' declaration of greatness there for Apollo.
Asana, what stood out to you in that argument?
The poems? 100%. Yes.
The powers that he has of, like, poetry and how he rhymes and how you made it rhyme.
And again, the comparison of light to symbolism of truth, rationality, and prophecy.
Amazing. Alright, Jed, it's time for your rebuttal.
You've got 30 seconds to make your twin apologize.
And your time starts now.
Also, do not get in that chariot.
Those poor swans are just gonna be flapping around.
They can't move a golden chariot.
It's just gonna look bleak.
Secondly, Apollo, she tries to make you think that like women all love Apollo.
The real truth is that there were plenty of women who just found him really annoying.
He wouldn't leave them alone.
In fact, one of them turned into a tree so that he'd leave her alone.
and Nisha's like, oh, thank God I'm a tree now because now Apollo will bug off.
And time. Oof, nice work.
This is a tough debate.
Asuna, it's time to award your first two points.
Use whatever criteria you want to make your decision.
Did one God have more powerfully persuasive arguments?
Did the other wow you with their cool?
Mark down both points, but don't tell us who you're voting for.
Have you made your decision?
I sure have. Wonderful, Ruby and Jed, how are you feeling about this godly smackdown so far?
Feeling golden. Like Apollo's liar.
I'm pretty sure Asuna's gonna make the smartemas choice.
All right, it's time for a quick break.
Take a soothing stroll in the woods, or Strom your liar.
And we'll be right back with more Smash Boom This.
You're watching State of Debate, home to rage and rhetoric, and awe -inspiring argumentation.
Salutations, debaters!
This is Taylor Lincoln, and I'm here with my number -one pal and leader in logic...
Todd Douglas! And we just saw someone use the Appeal to Authority Fallacy.
Ruh -roh. That's a big whoopsie.
Huge! The Appeal to Authority Fallacy is when you think something must be true because an authority or expert believes it.
But just because an authority or expert supports something doesn't necessarily mean it's always right.
Exactamundo! Especially if they don't have any evidence to back up their claims. Yeah, just like this!
Hey Zora! I finally got it!
The Super Fruity Num Num Cereal!
Time to get crazy! Zeke!
Did you look at the ingredients?
This can't be good for you.
Oh contraire, sister.
The queen eats super fruity num nums every day.
See? She's on the box.
Zeke. Those two hundred grams of sugar per serving.
No, no. If Her Majesty says it's part of a balanced breakfast, then it's just the truth.
Now eat up. But whoa, whoa, whoa.
Milk first, then cereal.
You know, the royal way.
The right way. Bbbb!
Wowsers! Zeke's logic was cereal -is -ly off.
I love a pun. Just because the queen endorsed super fruity num -nums doesn't mean it's a healthy cereal.
Plus, we all know pouring the milk first is whack.
Agreed. Almost as whack as not having any evidence to back up your claims. Just like Zeke.
All this cereal talk is making me hungry.
It's time to get snack -a -lackin'.
We'll see you next time on Spin Up Debate!
Smash. Boom. Best. You're listening to Smash Boom Best. I'm your host Molly Bloom.
And I'm your judge Asuna.
One of my favorite things about this show is all the amazing debate ideas we get from listeners like you.
Check out this awesome debate suggestion from Ruben in Wisconsin.
My debate idea is yawns versus burps.
We'll check back with Ruben at the end of this episode to see which side he thinks should win.
And now it's back to our debate of the day.
Artemis versus Apollo.
That's right. And it's time for round two.
The... Micro round!
round. Our micro round is Hot God Pod.
For this challenge, Jed and Ruby had to write a podcast trailer starring their God as Host. Jed went first last time, so Ruby, you're up.
Shine a light on Apollo's Awesome Podcast. Are you sick and tired of every celebrity in the Mother's Podcast?
Instead of listening to humans talk over each other for 90 minutes, tune into some greek God's doing the exact same thing.
It's different, I swear!
This is No Apologies with me, your host, Apollo.
Join me every week as I link up with some of the biggest names in Greek mythology and discuss everything under the sun. No topic is off limits, and this season is packed with special guests.
We're talking music with Poseidon.
Yacht rock is the best music, hands down.
No argument! I have to admit, it's crack -a -lackin'.
And discussing health with my dad, Zeus.
Deep breathing has really done wonders for my stress levels.
It's shocking how well it works!
We're even dipping our toes into investigative journalism with Athena.
But did the chicken actually cross the road just to get to the other side?
Or was there something more?
Dare I say, Foul Play.
The plot thickens. So whether it's talking tunes, wellness or true crime, there's no apologies here because we're having a good time.
Listen to no apologies wherever you listen to podcasts.
Proudly sponsored by Helios Fresh, Olympus' most popular meal kit delivery service.
Haha. Wonderful. I would tune in, for sure.
Alright Jed, it is now your turn.
Make Apollo quiver in his boots with Artemis's powerful pod.
Life can be confusing, especially during times of change.
Wouldn't it be great if there There were some when you could call on for heavenly advice.
Now there is. Hi, I'm Artemis.
You probably know me as the goddess of the hunt, but I'm also the goddess of transitions.
People have been coming to me for centuries to help them get through periods of change.
Now I've got a new advice podcast. Hi Artemis, I'm getting married next month… Don't do it.
What? No, no. Oh that's - that's not what I'm calling.
I'm really happy. Telling you it's a big mistake.
Stay single forever.
We can hang. Be like my girl Ifejanaya here.
Say hey Ife' Sup. She's also an expert in noon romance.
And he's handsome, but it feels like things are moving kind of fast. Wait wait wait.
This sounds kind of familiar.
He's good at art and fortune telling?
A bit of a stalker vibe?
His name Apollo by any chance.
Yeah, do you know him?
Yeah, he's my kid brother.
AKA the god of disease The god of what now?
Run, girl. Or maybe you're thinking of switching up your hunting style.
But a compound bow so much more advanced than a longbow.
Listen, Ryan, that's perfectly fine if that's what you can handle.
But I've got to wonder, is it the bow that bags the deer?
Or the hunter? I'm here with divine wisdom during uncertain times.
And as always, prank callers will be turned into animals and savagely hunted down.
Subscribe now and listen to the new podcast by Artemis.
I'm smashing that subscribe button I need all the advice I can get Asanat what stood out to you there in our debaters micro rounds.
Wow Both very different approaches both absolutely loved so for Apollo I love the puns and the hidden information you gave me about the gods and goddesses so thank you so much Ruby.
You're so welcome and Artemis, I love advice podcasts.
I think they're hilarious.
The dating advice 100 % would take from Artemis.
So yeah, stay single.
Well, it sounds like this is gonna be a tough decision, but it's time to award a point.
Don't tell us who's getting it again.
The criteria is totally up to you.
Which pod do you you're more likely to subscribe to, which one made you laugh, which one made you feel...
whatever. Have you decided?
Yep. Awesome then it's time for our third round the super stealthy sneak attack.
Your sneak attack today is Sweat Like a I.
I am already! Let me explain.
Ruby and Jed, for this challenge we want your God to start in a funky fresh dance workout video.
And to be your god talk us through, you know, three of your grooviest moves and tell us why we should be trying this fitness program.
Does that sound good?
Yeah! Yeah. Sure. Let's get sweaty with it.
We're going to give you a few minutes to brainstorm.
And while you work, let's listen to some hold music.
All right, Jed, you are up first. Show us how the goddess of the hunt likes to m -m -m -move.
Sorry. Alright. I mean, obviously she's the archer extraordinaire.
So you've got to start off with some serious arm - and -chest work with bowstring pulls.
You do 60 ,000 reps with one arm, 60 ,000 with the other.
Then, you can't ignore the legs.
Everyone tries to ignore the legs.
So, for this exercise, we've got this little thing called Catch the Baby.
and you squat down, just like she did when she was like 2 seconds old.
Squat down. And you get ready in the catching position, and you just got to feel the burden of those legs.
And that baby's going to be slippery.
It's going to be crying.
But don't worry. You catch that baby.
And then finally, when you're all done, it's time to hit the showers.
No showers! Artemis does not do well with showers because when there's unlucky onlookers that happen across in the locker room, she turns them into animals and has been torn apart by their own dogs.
That's it. What a workout.
So does your workout system have a name?
It's get -heart -imus.
That's it. Keeping that heart healthy.
You're heart -imus healthy.
Very good. All right, Ruby, your turn.
Tell us how the god of healing works it out and struts his stuff.
Okay, so we're gonna start off and really get our heart rates up by dancing because Apollo is the God of dance.
So we're just gonna start by shaking every inch of our body and we're shaking, and we're shaking, and we're letting all that tension go and it's great.
It's like the light just entering your soul, it feels incredible.
Okay, and then we're gonna get down and do some sun squats so you can get your golden glutes going because that's very important.
Apollo is in like the best form and that's what we're going for here.
So one and a two and a three.
You can feel it burn, it's feeling great.
And now okay, to cool down we're gonna do some scales to warm up our vocals and just really feel the music so.
Da -da -da -da -da -da -da -da -da -da -da -da I'm not a singer but I'm doing it, it feels great.
Da -da -da -da -da -da -da -da I'm cooling down, it feels great.
I didn't turn anybody into deer in the process and I have golden glutes now so I'm feeling pretty good.
I mean turning people into deer is where you burn the most calories.
Rumi does your workout have any?
Uh son salutations Apollo style Wow very good work and exercise for your body and your vocal cords which I guess is a part of your body after all so Asana which workout video impressed you the most again criteria completely up to you which one got you sweating which one made you laugh give that team a point but don't us who it's going to.
Have you made your decision?
Yes I did. Okay and it's time for our last round.
The final six. Ruby, you are up.
You've got just six words left to prove that Apollo is the most divine.
Liar. Shredder. Prolific prophet.
It's the secret truth seeker.
Excellent work. All right, Jed, your turn.
Give us six words that capture Artemis' celestial perfection.
Well, actually I relied on my niece once again to do this part for me.
Can we roll it? Artemis is totally right on target.
Yes. Eloise, oh she, Eloise is right on target too.
Much better than anything I could have come up with.
Alright Apollo and Artemis have given us some godly chills and taken us on a beatific tour of their twinning powers, but it's time for a reckoning which god is tops?
It's Asenart's decision to make.
So Asenart award your final point for this last final six.
Have you made that decision?
I sure have. Okay, it's time to crown one of these twins the winner.
So tally up your points there.
Let us know when you're ready for the big reveal, we're going to do a whole drum roll.
Have you tallied? I am ready.
Okay, drum roll please.
And the winner is. Artemis so hard. Apollo, no!
Buy a little bit? FYI, buy a little bit.
So was there a moment there, Asinat, that sealed the deal for you?
It was mostly the beginning.
I feel like all of those beginning points were going to Artemis, and then Apollo was making a comeback, but unfortunately, didn't make it.
Yeah, Jadon Ruby did not make your job easy today.
So thank you for your very sage judging.
I gotta say the podcast was fantastic.
The no apologies inspired.
And even though I feel like I lost to your niece, Eloise.
I really appreciate that you put her and her best friend Quinn in there.
That was just so lovely, and they really made some good points.
I think we'll be hearing a lot of those debates happening across the country in households after hearing this debate today.
That's it for today's godly pod, Asanok crowned Artemis the Smash Boom Best, but what about you?
Head to www .smashboom .org and vote to tell us who you think should win.
Smash Boom Best is brought to you by Brains On in APM Studios.
It's produced by Rosie DuPont, Rubi Guthrie, Sandan Totten and Molly Bloom.
We had engineering help from Maya Sostitch and Eric Remani.
And we had production help from Tricia Bobita, Dan Le Tout, Mark Sanchez, and Manica Wilhelm.
Our executive producer is Beth Perlman, and the APM studio's executives in charge are Lily Kim, Alex Shaffert, and Joanne Griffith.
Rosie Dupont is the voice of our whole music.
And our announcer is Marley Foyerworker Otto.
We want to give a special thanks to Austin Cross, Taylor Kaufman, Ezra Poppler, and Lulu.
Ruby, is there anyone you want to thank today?
Yes. First and foremost, I want to thank my friend and Jack of all trades, Jack Silvernagel, for voicing Apollo and also sharing his singing talents.
Thank you, Jack. Also, thanks Mark, Maynica, Rosie, my little brother Pablo, and my dad, Paul, for sharing your voices.
How about you, Jed, any special shout outs?
I mean, obviously I gotta thank my niece, Eloise, and her friend, Quinn.
also my nephew Elliott and then I had voice help from Paul and Kabahi White Megan and Andrea Mustaine and Asanat, do you want to give any special thanks today?
Yeah I'd love to give thanks to Eileen because she was helping me, like she was like you know you should really learn a little bit about Greek mythology because it's amazing she's a Percy Jackson fun so it was very offensive to her when I said I didn't know anything about them.
But, yeah. All right, before we go, let's hear who Ruben thinks should win in his yawns versus burps debate.
I think yawns would win.
Because burping is just bad manners.
Good point, Ruben. Do you have an idea for a knock down drag out debate?
Head to SmashBoom .org and tell us about it.
We'll be back with a new debate battle next week.
Say, hello! Ciao, ciao!
Ciao, ciao! 🎶 By the way, Jett, your niece definitely carried.
You should. And these points should be awarded to her, not you.
Absolutely.
