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Let's make every conversation a winning negotiation.
Amy, thanks for joining us today.
Hi, Kwame. I'm excited to hang out.
Yes, likewise, my friend.
So how about you get us started by telling us a little bit about yourself and what you do?
Yeah, so I work as a life coach and hypnotherapist.
I work in women's leadership, specifically in the area of difficult conversations, which I know you are quite familiar with.
I tend to discuss that more in an interpersonal framework and how that is related to certain unwanted behaviors like obsession around what other people think, constant rumination, self -doubt, perfectionism, people -pleasing.
Those are usually kind of the places it hurts.
But when we excavate behind that, almost always the root cause or the root issue is around a sense of self -worth and believing that your voice actually matters or that your desires deserve to come to fruition.
So a lot of the stuff around how do I ask for a divorce with grace and kindness or how do I ask an adult child to move out of the house with compassion?
How do in my instance, how do I tell my family that I don't subscribe to the faith traditions I was raised in?
So a lot of the stuff that culturally our society kind of says, oh, you can't do that.
You can't say that.
You're not allowed to do that.
Oh, you're going to hurt that person.
And really looking behind that and figuring out, okay, is that a belief system that I've been kind of grandfather or grandmothered into without my consent?
And there are a lot of social stigmas like that, that we have adopted as beliefs without our own consent.
So what does that look like when we can actually be a fierce guardian of our belief system and then live into it?
That is powerful. And Amy, one of the things I love about this already, I mean, we haven't even gotten into the content yet, but already your approach to self -advocacy, speaking up, standing up for yourself and people -pleasing, it's a very unique methodology and approach to it because I think that people
just think about it in terms of I need to do this thing, but right now I'm not doing that thing.
Whatever it might be, saying something at all or as being effective in the way that you communicate things.
And so I think a great place for us to start is with definitions.
And with people -pleasing, how would you define that?
Yeah, so I find that a lot of times folks will say, I don't identify with this people -pleasing moniker because so often we think that it's somebody who is maybe really shy and weak and maybe a sort of a repressed posture.
Maybe they are the wallflower.
And I think that's a really myopic view of what people -pleasing is.
I think that the way I describe it is anytime you are so heavily invested in the opinions of other people that you shapeshift or you alter who you are in some way at a cost to you.
And when I've come up against folks who are like, oh, I don't really think I'm a people pleaser because I'm, you know, in a CEO role or I'm very high achieving or blah, blah, blah.
And then I'll say, yeah, but are you or do you ruminate and think a lot about the opinions of others?
And they'll go, oh, yes, Absolutely.
And I'm like, well, then welcome to people pleasing.
So one of the things, though, that I think is really, really important to delineate here is that people pleasing is not necessarily always a bad thing.
in fact it's rooted in our primitive defense mechanisms so if you are familiar with the fight flight freeze defense stress response there's sort of a newer one that we've been exploring kind of in the psychological community around fawning and the idea behind fawning in the face of an aggressor or in a captor is to
placate so if we're talking primitively if it's a a cougar or a lion coming after you to fawn in the face of that fear would be here, kitty, kitty, kitty, go get that food over there.
Right? Something where you are trying to placate that particular threat.
So we do the same thing now in situations where we feel threatened and many people can look back to their family of origins.
Maybe there was a volatile caregiver that you learned like, okay, if I walk on eggshells, if I always make sure they're okay, then I can stay safe.
And so we create this positive association with people -pleasing equating safety.
And I think you might appreciate this story.
So many, many years ago, I was being interviewed on a podcast by a black woman and she asked me, she said, Oh, well, you know, I just had a baby.
And while I was in the hospital, I really made sure to make friends with all of the staff, be as sweet as I possibly could, because I know that Black women are often not treated the best in birth situations.
And statistically, we know that, right?
That of the developed nations, we have the highest mortality rate for women giving birth and it's exponentially worse for women of color, specifically Black So we were having this conversation and I said, I don't think that that behavior that you employed was one of you outsourcing your self -worth,
but rather you using that as a tactic to stay safe.
And I think that's a huge piece of nuance that we have to address when we talk about people pleasing.
Amy, we have had over 1200 episodes of the podcast and people pleasing is a major part of what we talk about.
People pleasing is a major part of my origin story.
And I've never heard it described in this way.
Really? Yes. It's such an incredible nuanced approach because you have brought clarity and also necessary complexity to a very sophisticated issue, right?
Because I think a lot of times people just think about it from the perspective of, all right, I am putting other people first at my own expense.
It doesn't feel good.
I'm not getting the outcomes I want.
That's people pleasing.
How do I address this?
But you've actually brought up some points where, hey, this is essentially a life strategy that is utilized either intentionally or unintentionally.
And there are some times where intentional usage of this is actually the right strategy.
And the story that you gave us is incredible, which also makes it more complex because now we recognize that we need to bring a higher level of self -awareness into this analysis and then determine whether or not our behavior is serving us in the moment.
And then it'll help us to determine our actions going forward.
Yeah. And it's also directly analogous to what we talk about related to work and what you'd primarily focus in the corporate arena, right?
So there are many instances where we have to placate or acquiesce in some way in order to get our needs met.
So I think the big question to be asking yourself when you're finding that you are self -sacrificing and it feels as though there's a cost is to check in with yourself and say, am I acquiescing to this person because I need them to love me or approve of me for my own self -worth or am I doing this because I
need a promotion or I need this deal to go through or right?
So that all becomes a completely different motivating factor.
And I think that we cannot ignore the fact that people pleasing is rooted in defense, in taking care of ourselves.
So one of the other examples that I've used is I identify as queer.
If I'm in a scenario where people are very heavily anti -LGBTQIA, that's probably not the time for me to be waving my rainbow flag and telling them how wrong they are.
I might need to bow out, not use my voice in that moment in order to stay safe.
And that could absolutely happen in various situations in the workplace, depending on how invested you are in promotions, deals going through, the boss liking you for your own benefit versus I need them to like me or else I'm not valuable or I'm not worthy, where it's tethered to your worthiness.
First of all, Happy Pride Month.
Thank you. And second of all, I love this because, and tell me if I'm summarizing this correctly, when we're thinking about people pleasing that is, let's say, maladaptive versus the people pleasing that adaptive, we should focus on the perception of worth and value.
And if we are outsourcing our perspective and perception of our self -worth and value and putting that into the hands of other people, then that's problematic because we are giving away our power.
But it's adaptive if we recognize, no, I still am a valuable human, regardless of what anybody thinks.
I just recognize in this situation, what is safest and most strategically sound is to utilize people pleasing in this moment.
It's not my only strategy, but in this moment after doing an analysis, I recognize this is the best for me.
And it comes down to whether or not it's rooted in self -worth or rooted in something a little bit more tangible and legitimate.
That's right. That's absolutely a great assessment.
And I think we can't talk about this whole concept without talking about emotional intelligence, because when somebody doesn't approve of you or doesn't like what you said or what you brought to the table, that will have a subsequent emotional reaction.
We will feel something in the face of that.
Most of the time, our emotions will then dictate our behavior.
That's when we start groveling or maybe kissing ass a little bit more or whatever.
And it's in those moments when we're catching our behavior and going, wait a minute, what is this motivated from?
Is it from a place of self preservation?
Or is this from a place of I don't feel worthy unless I get this approval?
And I have a sort of an analogy that I would love to share that I use when I'm speaking and sharing this with my students and clients.
And it's this idea that we're essentially a house, right?
You want to think about yourself like a house and you have all of these intricacies and different rooms that make you totally unique.
Some of these rooms you don't want anyone to see.
And then you're like, check out this gorgeous great room that I have, the stuff that you allow everyone to see, but it has its own unique value already as a house.
And then we will have people who will drop off various things on the porch of our house.
So we'll have folks who might drop off a giant pile of shit, let's say.
Now it's up to us to decide if we're going to bring that into our house or not.
What that symbolizes is all of the things that we would term a negative emotion.
I don't really feel like emotions are negative because they're just messaging.
They're just there to say, hey, bitch, pay attention.
And that's exactly what's happening when we get passed over for a promotion.
Somebody doesn't sign the contract.
Somebody asks for a divorce.
A child says they don't love you.
Those are all emotional experiences that hurt.
And it's our choice in that moment to go, okay, I'm going to take that in and allow that to sully my house.
Or I'm going to say, I'm not currently accepting any piles of shit.
I recognize that being broken up with being passed up for a promotion, whatever is going to carry human emotion.
That sucks. That doesn't necessarily mean that I suck.
Now, conversely, you will have folks who will come and leave a gorgeous gift on the porch of your house.
These are like all of the experiences that we have that carry a more comfortable emotion.
Euphoria, excitement, bliss, fun, adventure, all of these other different elements of the emotional spectrum.
You get to decide, oh, okay, Amy left this gorgeous vase on the porch of my house.
I'm going to bring this inside.
It makes me feel good.
the message from that emotion is more of this, please.
However, neither one of those things, the shit or the gorgeous gift, have any bearing on the value of the house.
They're simply human experiences that carry human emotion.
None of that has anything to do with your worth or your value.
So one of the things that you can do is when you are feeling those emotions of rejection or betrayal or sadness or whatever, is to ask yourself, am I conflating this with my worth as a person or am I allowing it to just be painful?
Because I think so much of that emotional intelligence and acuity informs how we choose to behave, how much we put others before ourselves, how much we're willing to work 90 hours before we say, hey, I'm a little overwhelmed over here, right?
So I think we have to pick apart sometimes that emotional message that's coming through in order for us to figure out how is my behavior being motivated?
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This is great, and I love this metaphor that makes it really tangible, because you're right, If we think of ourselves as a house and people are bringing things to our doorstep, we have a choice.
But the thought is what it is.
And when we think about it, the thoughts that originate from our minds or from other people's minds, they are just that.
They're thoughts. That doesn't necessarily mean that it's true.
And the emotional intelligence that's required starts with that self -awareness of recognizing, hey, something has shifted inside of me emotionally.
What is that? Okay, it's a tough situation and my feelings are hurt.
That is human. That is natural.
That is something to be expected.
However, it becomes more problematic and then maladaptive if it's a situation where I don't just feel bad.
I also feel like I am worth less than before as a result of what somebody did or said to me.
And it takes, again, a lot of practice.
This doesn't happen innately in most people.
It takes a lot of work to be able to have this level of emotional intelligence and then make that choice knowingly.
But once you do, it's actually really quite empowering.
And tell me this, Amy.
let's try to, let's see how far we can push this metaphor.
So if we think about it in terms of our house being us having value and the value of our house isn't dictated by what people leave on our porch, that means we determine the value that we bring.
And if we work on ourselves, we can improve the value of our house.
And then I think as we improve the value of our house, which is our perception of self -worth, then I think it makes us less tolerant of the trash that people leave on our doorstep.
It's like, hey, this is a nice house.
Don't bring that trash here.
And I think when we think about it that way, perhaps the people -pleasing or placating behavior isn't so much of a skills issue as it is a mindset and self -worth issue.
And if we start thinking of ourselves differently, it might be easier for us to set those boundaries because we just say, hey, I value myself.
And as a result, I will not tolerate this.
100%. In fact, I call this your bullshit tolerance getting really, really, really, really low.
So it is incredibly obvious to me too when I work with women over a long period of time.
In fact, I have one student who when she first came to work with me, she said, my goal is to get my husband to love me.
And I said, well, first of all, I don't do that because I can't control him.
I have nothing to do with him.
Here's what I can do.
I can help you get to a place where you are so bolstered and resolute in your own worth that your decisions around your marriage will be so much clearer.
And that's exactly what we did.
And she was on board with it.
She was unfortunately in a situation where he was telling her that everything was her fault, a bunch, it was really quite, quite egregious.
But now, flash forward a couple of years, she is very happily divorced, thriving in her dating life, pursuing all sorts of different continued education.
And just genuinely, she's effervescent.
Like the radiance that comes off of her because her worth is just not questionable anymore.
And she gets to hold the key to that.
No, she's not given the key to that house to anybody else.
And it's really remarkable to watch.
But I think what happens too, when you start really anchoring into that sense of I am deserving of the life that I want, I matter, I'm worthy, then you start really seeing other people's behavior through a completely different lens.
So instead of feeling like, oh, my God, they're mad at me, you go, oh, wow, they're really projecting.
Or I think that's something going on with them.
Or let me evaluate, am I at peace with how I showed up?
Yeah, I actually am.
I'm going to allow that to be theirs.
And it doesn't mean it doesn't carry hurt or pain.
It just means that you're really, really fucking clear that that's not your mess to clean up.
And that element of what's my responsibility and what isn't dramatically changes.
And then you also, and I'm sure you can attest to this as well, you really kind of only have magical human beings around you.
You have people who are constantly depositing into your energetic bank account and you're depositing into theirs so that when somebody does need some support, there's just this reservoir of emotional funds, of karmic cash, if you will.
So yeah, I 100 % concur.
Oh, this is so good.
And you're right. As you start to see yourself differently, you will start to attract the people who respect you in the way that you deserve to be respected.
You'll just become less tolerant of that.
And I love the fact that you said, what as a question that we'll ask ourselves, what's my responsibility and what is it?
It's the classic stoic mentality.
I'm going to control that which is within my control.
Which can, when you start to actually do this analysis, it's equal parts scary and empowering.
It's scary because you recognize just how little is within your control, but also empowering because you recognize what is within your control.
And then you say, hey, I'm just going to keep my stuff together.
I'm going to handle my end and then I'll let the shit fall where they may because that is my only option.
And one of the things I always say on the podcast is that negotiation isn't the art of deal making, it's the art of deal discovery.
I'm going to try to figure out whether or not there is a deal to be made.
I'm going to work with the other side to figure that out.
And now in these situations, we can recognize that, hey, I'm not here to try to get an agreement with everybody.
I'm not here to be in a relationship with everybody, a friendship with everybody, or in business with everybody.
I want to be in business and relationships and friends with the right people.
And once you adopt that mentality based on your self -worth, then that becomes that baseline.
Because as you start to see, feel better about yourself and feel more confident and feel more worthy, then you're going to say, I'm not going to tolerate anything that falls below this baseline.
So essentially, it's like carrying a psychological BATNA, best alternative to a negotiated agreement with you all the time.
Because in a traditional negotiation, if I'm negotiating, I'm going back and forth with the other side, and my plan B is better than what is offered here at the table, I can easily say no, because I know I have something better.
And here, when we have our self -worth at a higher level, I can easily say no to bad behavior from somebody else because I know I am worth better.
And so you'll start to see your life start to shift because, like you said, with the example with the woman that you were coaching, your decisions will change based on that new self -worth.
You'll be able to set boundaries in the right places, create agreements and relationships in the right places.
And as you keep making those decisions over time, now you find yourself a few months, a few years into the future where the entirety of the people around you and your life circumstances have changed.
But it starts from the inside out.
And I think a lot of times people make the mistake of saying, oh, this is just a skills issue.
I'm having trouble saying no.
I need to learn how to say no.
So I think what we're recognizing here is we have to learn why we are struggling to say no.
And that's where it starts.
Yes, I would. Yes. And to you about that, because I truly believe that we have sort of a bevy of different entry points that can help lead us to changing our beliefs about our own worth and our own enoughness.
So sometimes that entry point is behavioral, where we watch ourselves do something like Like be offended around a co -worker at something that they said.
And then you didn't say anything.
And then you're going home ruminating on that situation.
Like, why didn't I say anything?
Why do I? Right? So we can tackle it with actual skill set, like you mentioned, which through time, through that behavior, starts to feed into the mind and into the subconscious that we do believe that we are worthy.
I'd say that's far more infrequent that folks can go straight behavior.
you can also go through an environmental entry point of like, am I surrounded with people who, whether it's in my family structure, whether it's in my workplace, those are the places we spend a majority of our time, are those fostering my self -worth?
Are there boundaries that I might need to establish there?
And then the big internal entry point, I think, is both the conscious faculty of the mind as well as the subconscious.
But what we don't know, what we don't realize when we're beating ourselves up like crazy is that all of our beliefs are housed in the subconscious part of the mind.
So depending on who you talk to, our conscious faculty of the mind is about 5%.
Subconscious is 95.
All right. So 95 % of our mind is beneath our consciousness and it is running the entire show.
So it registers things that are known or unknown.
So if we have a known positive association with people -pleasing, let's say, in that subconscious part of our mind, that will supersede, that'll be sort of the ace card against everything else.
So when you're going like, why can't I just say, hey, I don't share that opinion, or wow, I actually found that kind of offensive.
I'd appreciate it if you, like, why can't I say that?
I know that's how I, please be compassionate with yourself because there's an entire part of your mind that goes, oh yeah, remember when dad got really violent or remember when grandma would yell and scream?
It's safer to placate.
So reminding yourself like, oh, okay, it's ingrained in my subconscious mind right now.
That's why, and I need to start changing this.
So that's one of the reasons why in the work that I do, we target stuff both consciously and subconsciously.
We work with a lot of hypnotic modality.
And then we also look at some of the behavioral stuff.
What are you doing?
Can we start to change your actual behavior, that skill?
And then what's your environment like?
Who are you surrounded with?
Because a lot of those things, even if we don't have the clouds parting going, oh my gosh, I am worthy.
We have so many other things that we can start taking action on.
We can start taking a little bit more distance from that family member who is always trying to take the money out of your, you know, your proverbial account, your emotional bank account.
We can start to speak more kindly to ourselves when we look at ourselves in the mirror.
Like there are a lot of things we can do, but I think we expect that we're just going to automatically have this belief shift and we'll magically be imbued with enoughness or worthiness.
And that's not typically how it works.
So I think you can use the skills as an entry point, but you do eventually have to really look at what does this mean then?
What do I believe about who I am?
So I think it's all quite tethered together.
Amy, this is incredible.
I wish I would have known you over a decade ago.
This is great because let's run through this because the entry points, I think that's really instructive because sometimes it can be a behavioral shift.
You do it through skills.
sometimes it's changing your environment and the people around you and sometimes it's through the mind whether subconsciously or consciously this is brilliant and what's funny is just in speaking from a place of vulnerability too with the response that i gave previously i recognized i'm trying to protect
people from the pain that i went through i was purely skills that's how i did it how i overcame people pleasing in myself i found myself in a negotiation course and then i recognized there was a path forward this is a skill that it can actually be learned so i forced myself to be able to make the right
read with the skills of negotiation, I could say, okay, I know what I want.
I know what I need to do.
And I know deep down inside, I am terrified and petrified.
I don't want to do it, but I know it's the right read.
So I'm going to force myself to do it.
And so I did it purely through skills.
And now I recognize, oh man, I could have just felt better about myself.
And maybe that would have been better.
So I really appreciate you pausing and pointing that out, because I think that is a really powerful insight.
Well, I think it's dependent on does that acting as though, right?
Like you were going into these negotiations acting as though you were confident or acting as though you believed in yourself.
Sometimes that can be the vehicle to eventually genuinely believing in yourself.
So if you're familiar with the TED talk by Amy Cuddy, where she talks about the difference between our physical geography, what we do with our body compared to how we feel internally, she found that we can take different postural stances like a Wonder Woman pose or a victory pose, like when you cross
a finish line. If you move your body in those ways, her research found that you can actually cultivate the emotional feeling of confidence.
So I think the point with you is looking at if you are acting as though you are fully embodied in your worthiness, but you are still struggling internally, now we need to keep going on the path towards making it intrinsic and like a part of you, a part of your DNA.
But I do think that there are some folks who can act as though walk into a room like, okay, how would I carry myself if I believed I was a bad bitch and I was going to handle this.
How would I show up?
How would I carry myself?
What would be the tonality of my voice?
Sometimes that can foster a deeper sense of self -worth.
I've also seen this happen, and I'm curious if you've had this experience, through environment.
I think that the way in which my husband has been able to see me actually see the beauty in me and my worthiness and my, the different elements of who I am helped me believe in myself, right?
Now it's a problem if we stop there and I'm always fighting him against what he sees in me, but it can be a vehicle, an entry point to help you go, oh, oh yeah, dude, I actually agree with you.
You're right. I am kind of awesome.
So I think, again, we can have various types of journeys.
It just depends where you are at internally.
And what I'm hearing from you is that even though you were acting as though you were super confident and ready to go, there was still an internal piece that needed unlocking.
And so then we shift that attention there and really look at cultivating that.
You are spot on. And I love the example you gave with your husband.
I call it borrowed confidence.
Yes. I like to, I want as much as possible to surround myself with people who are positive, forward thinking, improving themselves, trying to improve their community, their careers and their families, et cetera.
And so I owe a lot of my success to my mentors and of course my family, of course, but mentorship post -college was really helpful.
And so what they would always say is they would make it clear.
I believe in you. I know you can do this.
You have a lot of potential in you.
And I was saying to myself, man, I don't see it.
I certainly don't feel it, but you're super smart And you're usually right.
And you're making a big call on me.
So I say, hey, Kwame, do you respect this person?
Do you think they're smart?
Well, they're looking at you with their years of experience and saying that you got it.
And multiple people are saying that too.
Believe in them the way that, and their belief in you.
And so once I started to say, listen, I'm going to have confidence in their call.
And I'm going to start taking action as if they're right.
And then I started to develop my own confidence in myself that was equal or greater than what they had in me too.
So yeah, that borrowed confidence was massively helpful for me as I grew.
I think you're also referring to something that I think so many people experience and I call it the belief that we are uniquely broken, that you consume these podcasts or you read these books about people, or maybe even the anecdote that you hear about my client and you listen to this stuff and you
go, yeah, yeah, yeah, but not me, but I am actually not enough.
I am actually damaged or broken uniquely, right?
It's an exceptionalism.
And I love to tell my clients who are in the medical field, I'm like, you are not exempt from the science doctor because you too can change those neural pathways in the brain, right?
Whether we're talking about it from a mind concept or we're talking about it from like a neuroscience standpoint, we know that beliefs are malleable.
They're not necessarily facts.
They're not necessarily truth.
They are a feeling of certainty.
That is something that we can alter and change.
So if you have a feeling of certainty that you are not enough, that does not make it a fact at all, right?
If I were to say like, what makes somebody enough?
It's going to be a sliding scale for every person.
We're going to have a different rubric completely.
So I think recognizing that, oh, okay, I'm actually, I feel uniquely broken.
And that's how we all feel, meaning that I'm not uniquely broken.
But I also think it's incredibly important that we normalize that and that we understand that there's part of it that's societal.
There's part of it that is our ancestry as humans.
There's stuff that is informed by your lived experience.
We have a culture that really grades people and divides up your enoughness, right?
Like straight is better than queer, thin better than fat.
I mean, any area of marginalized identity.
We already have this perspective of I have to fight harder for my worth.
So that is not in your fucking head.
That is a part of our social makeup.
So I feel like in the face of oppression, regardless of your intersection of marginalized identities what a fuck you to oppression to say i'm going to still love who i am i'm going to take up space and i'm going to fight for my own happiness wow like when you feel like you can't do it for yourself do
it for the revolution i love this amy i could talk to you about this forever and i think there might be some revolutionaries who are saying man you know what would be great i wish there was some kind of mastermind program led by some badass woman who could help me to overcome the challenges that I'm
experiencing. Out of curiosity, are you familiar with any such program?
Oh, well, Kwame, I'm so glad you asked.
Yeah. So I have a really in -depth, rich program that I take a very small group of women through.
It's usually roughly about eight women, and it spans over nine months.
So it's part of my belief structure that I really feel like change happens over time when it's being cultivated and nurtured over a decent period of time.
I have a larger container.
And I will say that a majority of the women that I work with will have a place where it, quote, hurts, right?
Like it hurts in my marriage, hurts in my career.
I tend to attract a lot of folks in the medical field, I think, Because there's a lot of boundaries to be had.
But it usually hurts in the area of self -sacrifice, extreme burnout, fatigue, feeling like you're the last person on your to -do list.
And also a series of behaviors like people -pleasing, perfectionism, self -doubt that are just ruling over your life, all the while looking like you have your shit on lockdown, right?
Like you've got the degrees, you are high achieving, you've got all the ducks in the row that people would go, how on earth are you not totally in love with yourself?
You seem amazing. Meanwhile, you're struggling with that idea that, no, I think I am actually uniquely broken.
I think it doesn't apply to me.
I think it doesn't work for me.
If that is you, hey, give me a call because that is exactly how I serve and how I operate.
The great exciting thing about this program, it's called Worthy.
Again, it's opening up for registration in September of 2024.
And it's a book ended by two in -person, all -inclusive retreats.
So when you sign up for the entirety of the program, those two super growth -filled vacations will be on the docket for you and handled for you as well.
So come hang out, get to know me and my work.
You can find me over at amygreensmith .com.
just click the worthy link and all of those names are spelled the very basic bitch way.
I don't have any exciting name spellings, just Amy Greensmith, and you can find everything that you need to know about that.
And if you happen to be listening to this when it's not in open enrollment, I do also take individuals through it in a one -on -one container as well with the same exact curriculum.
So hit me up. Incredible.
Amy, thank you so much for joining us.
Really appreciate it.
Oh, I had a blast. I felt like we could talk forever as well.
Wait, wait, wait, wait.
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Just kidding. I've told you before, but you should listen to it again.
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I'll catch you later.
