Hello and welcome back to Chasing Excellence, a show about chasing what truly matters.
My name is Patrick Cummings.
As always, I'm here with Ben Bergeron.
Thank you so much for joining us.
Hello, my friend.
How are you?
Hello, my friend, I'm good.
Good to see you.
We've got this time around am cap 20 returns.
We're going to try to answer as many of your questions as we can.
This time we've got questions about a father of three young girls struggling to balance sleep, training and family life.
Our thoughts on whether the fitness industry has lost its way by prioritizing hustle culture over genuine impact.
Thoughts on if someone with a history of multiple hernias can safely begin CrossFit training, and hopefully a couple more, depending on how long we talk.
Before we get into our first question from Craig, one request.
If this episode, or any of the episodes that we put out recently or this year at all, has resonated with you, please do consider sharing it with a friend or two.
We want to launch into the new year with as many like-minded folks as we can.
And the best way to do that is if our current listeners share an episode or a number of episodes with their friends and family and cousins and colleagues.
It's the best way that new folks will find us, will trust us, that we are worth their time.
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Send a text saying, I've been thinking about you.
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That'd mean the world to us and might mean the world to your friend.
You specifically pointed out cousins.
Share with your cousins.
I have so many cousins.
How many cousins do you have?
Um, i have a lot.
My mom was one of eight, so my mom was one of nine, and my dad was also one of nine, oh my god.
And everybody had like at least four kids and so, like i have so many cousins, oh my god.
Yeah, that's amazing.
So that's why because the only people in the world that i know are my cousins because i have that money.
All right, share this with patrick's cousins, That'd be awesome.
If you accidentally share this with one of my cousins, I will send you something.
If you don't know that they're my cousin and you share this, that would make me laugh.
All right.
And we've got 20.
We're going to put 20 minutes on the clock.
We're going to do our best to answer a handful of these questions.
Sometimes we talk real fast to do so, but so be it.
I'm feeling good today.
I'm ready to rock it.
Let's do this.
All right, clock is running.
This is from Craig.
Father of three young girls age five, three, and one.
I'm facing a new challenge, sleep deprivation.
Bedwetting, teething, nightmares, often keeping up for hours at night.
I'm also balancing a demanding job as a detective, with a training schedule of running three times a week and CrossFit four times a week.
I typically exercise early in the morning before work, to be present for my kids and wife in the evenings.
Given the importance of sleep for overall health and well-being, I'm wondering is it more important to maintain my training routine, even if it means sacrificing sleep, or to prioritize sleep and potentially reduce some of my training?
How can I find a balance that allows me to be the best father and role model while also taking care of my own needs?
This is a great question.
Craig sounds like one of us.
He's what a stud.
Three young girls, detective, and he wets the bed.
That's great.
Okay, so, but it's a great- Stop drinking before you go to bed, Craig.
Easy.
Yeah.
I would say maybe like a clothespin on the tip.
It's a great question, right?
Which is like training versus sleep, which was, here's like-
All right.
So for Craig, for somebody that's already training, it sounds like three days a week of what.
Three days of CrossFit?
Running three times, CrossFit four times.
Okay, so that's probably six days a week, right?
At least, if not seven days a week of training.
My suggestion would be, For sure.
If you get less than, it's also hard to say, because he doesn't say what his normal sleep is.
Yeah, exactly.
It's just interrupted sleep.
So it could still be eight, but it's eight interrupted sleep.
Correct.
So we don't know.
But here's my litmus thing.
If you're getting less than six hours of sleep, you should probably stay in bed and try and sleep.
Don't get up and get that training session in.
If you are shooting for seven or eight hours, but you only get 645, no big deal, dude.
Like still get up and train.
There is so much benefit to now.
Matthew Walker would say otherwise, but the research that we're really seeing is how much benefit there is.
There's almost nothing.
There is almost nothing that you can do that is as detrimental to your health as exercise is beneficial to your health.
It's just so powerful.
So you're doing the right stuff CrossFit three days a week, running four days a week but you probably also don't need to be doing that much honestly.
Give yourself the permission to not train that day.
That once a week, back off.
This is my suggestion to Craig.
Once a week, if you really have a bad night, don't train that day.
And the easy rule there again, I'm just gonna say it again, is the six.
If you're getting less than six, it's more beneficial for you to stay in bed than it is to train.
That is like sleep deprivation.
They took healthy college age kids and they sleep deprived them for five nights in a row.
All of them were pre-diabetic by the fifth night.
Being sleep deprived actually puts you in that category.
So that's what we would call sleep deprivation is less than six.
So try to tell yourself, get to there.
Yeah.
Just to reiterate what he said at the end there, I want to be the best father and role model.
I will tell you, you will not be the best father and role model if you are sleep deprived and at seven o'clock at night.
Everything makes you angry.
Yeah.
So sleep is important.
Okay, good for you, Craig.
Good luck to you.
Next one's from Louis.
What are your thoughts on the current state of the fitness industry?
It seems the prevailing culture glorifies hustle and flexing about income or work intensity, rather than celebrating the positive impact on people's lives.
How can we shift this focus?
I think the question is about like we celebrate fitness so that you can work harder, so that you can make more money.
I think that's Lewis's question, but tell me if you read something else into that.
I hear it different.
I hear it in terms of like... to be a fitness professional.
It's about making more money and it's about hustling and, you know, the Alex Hermosy stuff, right?
About just like build your business, get to the next zero on the paycheck, like that type of stuff.
So here's my, so I'll answer the first part, the last part first.
LIFO, accounting principle, last in, first out.
How do we change this?
I don't think we do other than having these conversations that we're having right here.
Like I think that's the extent of it is just try to Try to pop to light how to chase what truly matters.
That's the whole idea.
Instead of, as you're saying, instead of hustle and income, chase impact and fulfillment.
Okay, that's like, how do we make those changes?
Through these small conversations.
Never underestimate the power of a small passionate group of people's ability to change the world.
In fact, it's the only thing that ever has.
Now, what's my take on the current state of the fitness industry?
Yeah, in like a minute, if you could.
I don't think this is the current.
I think it's just what it's always been.
Yeah.
In the 80s, it was no difference.
In the 80s, it was about like, do you have a BMW or are you a yuppie?
It's like it's the same thing.
And the reason for that is we're going to always, as a species, value the tangible over the intangible.
You know, I think it was Einstein that said not everything that can be measured matters and not everything that matters can be measured.
But what kind of car you drive, how much bigger paycheck is?
Did you hustle hustle, hustle as you're growing your business?
Very, very tangible.
The relationship you have with that 80 year old clients not very tangible for anyone other than yourself to value that.
That's why we have these conversations is because this is against the grain.
This is not the norm.
Society doesn't tell you to chase these things.
They say, chase...
The job on Wall Street, chase the three car garage, chase the yacht, chase the.
It's all.
Of that is the accolades, the awards.
It's not the fulfillment.
It's the followers like this.
We have to become aware, and it's through this reflection and conversation and deep introspection of dude, what truly does, what truly brings you joy, not pleasure, Not immediate hedonic happiness right.
But like everlasting joy, which by the way, most of the time comes through struggle.
The joy is on the other.
That's what doing meaningful work.
That's what it means.
So not just work to be a part of hustle culture.
So I don't think this is new.
And I don't think that we can do some big holistic change.
I think it's us just kind of continuing to chase fulfillment over the accolades, the awards, the applause.
Yeah.
Seth Godin has this great line where he says, find the others, right?
And it's partly a marketing exercise, but it's find the others.
Find the other people who believe what you believe.
Put yourself around them.
Surround yourself with them.
Have those conversations.
And ignore those who don't believe what you believe, who don't want what you want, who aren't chasing the things that you're chasing.
And when you do that, you start to recognize that there's plenty of people who believe what we believe, who want to have these conversations and not.
You know, I love what you said.
I just wrote it down, fulfillment, not followers.
Like there's plenty of us out there.
And so for Lewis and for us who are, you know, having these conversations, focusing on where the others are, the people who are receptive to these ideas, and not trying to change minds.
Not trying to change people's minds who aren't interested in being changed.
I think it's really important.
Because we can spend a lot of.
We can waste a lot of time and energy and effort trying to change minds of people who aren't interested in being changed.
They believe something completely different than us.
Their upbringing, their environment, their context, the people they spend their time with all so wildly different that it's effectively like we're speaking different languages to each other.
Let's just talk to people who are receptive and focus only on that, because that's where the change will be.
Yeah, a little bit too is like we're...
It's not wrong, right?
It's just the way that they view success.
And that's not wrong.
Like that is success.
It's just not success to me.
And the danger is I'm not looking to change them.
I'm looking to double down on me and speak to the other people that have the same belief systems as me.
And that's what this is about.
Yeah, and the hard part is when you don't define these things for yourself, it is very easy to default to what other people say is important to run other people's races.
And I think that that's a little bit inside of Lewis's question, which is I don't want to run that race.
It's not your race to run.
It's a different game.
You don't have to play it.
You also don't have to go like, guys, stop running.
Call off the race.
Call off the race.
Wait, wait.
We should not be standing at the starting line going like, you guys should not be doing this race.
This race is stupid.
Yeah.
No, just like, there's other events for you.
Yes.
The important part in that is you have to then define for yourself what the race is that you want to run.
Because absent that, then you're just left.
You can say like I don't want that race, but I don't want to figure out what my race is.
And then you're just left in the weird middle where you actually don't know what you're trying to do and what you're trying to accomplish.
And that's hard.
That's hard too.
So just be careful that you're not just abandoning one race, but also that you're figuring out what the races you want to run.
Yeah.
All right, quick pause.
Say thanks to our few sponsors, and we'll get back into our questions.
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All right, starting our clock once more.
This next question is from Jesse.
I'm 46, 5 foot 10 and 155 pounds.
Over the past decade, I've experienced four hernias of various types.
I've always been intrigued by CrossFit, but haven't taken the plunge.
What are your thoughts on CrossFit for someone in my situation?
With proper coaching, is it possible to safely perform these crucial lifts?
Wow, four hernias is a lot.
Okay.
So I had an umbilical hernia a couple of years ago and learned a lot about my misinformation, my ignorance about them.
Hernias are caused by a weakness in the abdominal wall.
Strength training improves the strength of the abdominal wall.
When I went to have my surgery and consult and follow-ups, they very like in between the consult and the surgery.
I was totally expecting them to be like okay, now lay off the weights.
They were like adamant, like keep strength training.
This is, it's the opposite of what we've been told.
Hernias.
Basically for the people that don't know, it's a little bit of like that your insides pop through your muscles and become your outsides.
And you actually like push them back in, and they get like sucked back into you.
They're caused not by strength training.
They're caused by genetics, by excessive coughing, excessive sneezing.
Obesity, sudden weight gain, and aging is the things that actually cause them.
Strength training is the thing to help prevent them.
It's actually the thing that strengthens the abdominal wall, particularly when you do it with the appropriate loads, appropriate technique and you use your midsection to brace.
It's when you don't use them that actually something bad happens.
Now, having said that, if you don't do those things, if you use excessive loads, if you don't brace your midline, if you do too much, too fast, too soon, then it can cause those things.
I think it's probably where they got the – old wives tale.
The urban myth that strength training causes hernias is probably from people not doing them well.
So to the question, is it appropriate?
Should you do it?
And I think they laid out all the things like with a coach and with the right thing.
Then the answer is yes.
Not only yes, but you should.
Like everything exercise and well-rounded training solves a lot.
Yep.
All right, next one's from Jordan.
Question about quote-unquote intensity.
I've heard in both CrossFit L1 course and from you Ben, that intensity should only be added after establishing consistency.
In theory, I completely agree, especially when considering which of these factors is more valuable for long-term success.
However...
In practice.
I believe intensity can drive physiological changes when regular training isn't feasible.
Consider a client who only trains once per week.
Couldn't we use relative intensity, like a high RPE on a low risk equipment like an assault bike, to create meaningful adaptations?
I'm wondering if this is more about clarifying the definition of intensity or if I'm misunderstanding the principle.
I don't think you need to redefine it or that you're missing the principle.
I think there's a piece missing. which is intensity.
It's not just intensity versus consistency.
It's intensity versus technique.
Those are the two that are at odds.
So of course, like the more consistent you are, the better gains you'll have.
Like we know that.
And yes, if you work out harder versus not harder, you'll see better gains.
So if you take somebody that works out only once a week and they don't work hard, they're not going to see results.
So if you take somebody that works once a week and you give them a high dosage, there's a chance they might see results.
So Jordan's spot on with that.
I love that.
We're confounding something though.
This is not technique versus consistency.
The argument is technique versus intensity.
And Jordan actually understands this.
He just hasn't put it all together because like we get them to work really hard at a high RP.
He didn't say, clean and jerks.
He didn't say overhead squats.
He didn't say muscle ups.
He said, yeah, butterfly pull.
He said, like an assault bike.
How much technique is there in an assault bike?
There's some, but it's very, very minimal.
It's a fixed plane of action.
That's why you can work with high levels of intensity on an assault bike with somebody that hasn't had the technique proficiency and years of consistent training.
Would you want them to be once a week only once a week doing thrusters with 135 pounds till they couldn't really function.
Absolutely not.
That's going to be a horrific training program.
Could you do that with somebody on a salt bike?
Yeah.
You could do like a death by a cell bike with an untrained person.
In the first minute, start at like whatever it is.
Start at four, right?
Start four calories in the first minute.
Next minute, do five.
Next minute, do six.
Next minute, do seven.
Until you can no longer hit it.
Like that's a safe protocol you put anybody through.
And that's why I love, and if you've listened to this a long enough, I love the bike.
I love, love, love the bike.
And people go like, well, what about, isn't a rower better?
Isn't it like more core to extremity?
Isn't it?
There's arguments for it, but remember there's an inverse relationship between technique and intensity.
Said another way as the requirements for technique go up, intensity must have the same level of decreases.
Said another way if you put somebody that can't swim very well in a pool, how great of a workout are they going to get?
Not very because they have no technique.
Now, if you give an Olympic swimmer a workout in a pool, how good of a workout are they going to get?
Phenomenal.
Like it's because they have great technique.
The same thing with rowing.
If somebody has horrific technique rowing, their chances of them getting a high intensity workout are not very good.
You put them on a fixed plane action of a bike and you can't.
This is why, in our training world, where there is so much technique, it's so nice to have that one implement that you go LFG today, baby.
Today's the day.
Today's a good day to die.
I don't know if this has been a recent revelation of yours, but it feels like maybe I just notice it more.
The frequency of the concept tube bike, specifically inside of the Comtrain program.
How often that shows up.
And I didn't know that.
I understood it before.
We had these conversations where you basically just explain what you just explained, but it makes so much sense.
Let's do this another way.
The bell-shaped curve is for endurance work on the far left-hand side of the bell-shaped curve.
You're not gonna do that with thrusters and muscle-ups.
What's probably one of the better places to do that.
That's not gonna beat up your joints, even like running would.
It's on a bike, a C2 bike.
It's probably the best place to do longs, You can do six hours a day if you chose to.
You can do six hours a day consistently five days a week on the bike if you so chose to.
How do we know that?
The guy that set the world record for the 5K and the 10K speed skating did just that for training, literally.
Okay, so he created one of the best aerobic performances ever in the history of the world by doing just that.
Because that's on that end of the spectrum.
In the big bell shape, where do you want to spend most of your time?
In that nice blend of, yeah, like let's do some burpee box jumps.
Let's do some dumbbell snatches and kettlebell swings and toe-to-bar and burpees and deadlifts and front squats and thrusters and rowing.
That's where most of that's going to happen.
Then, when it's time to really push it, that anaerobic capacity that let's see what we got.
I do not want you doing that with load.
I don't want you going to that extreme with a barbell in your hands or overhead or, even worse, like with Olympic lifting, and catching this in a dynamic fashion.
That doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but put you on a bike.
I can put anyone on a bike and find out where their threshold is.
On day one, I can't do that with most other movements.
Now to give someone that taste of this thing, to give someone to try and find out.
If we say intensity is the independent variable most commonly associated with favorable adaptations, intensity is the shortcut.
And we know now that there's an inverse relationship between technique and intensity.
Well, then what we're saying is if it requires technique, you can't have intensity.
And it makes sense.
Watch a new person come in and have them do a workout with squat snatches.
They're using an empty barbell.
They look terrible.
They maybe sweat a tiny bit, but they're like, okay, like, was that the thing today?
And you as a coach are like...
Yeah, that's the thing.
That's the thing.
Okay, like I get it, like it's not wrong.
But if we're saying intensity is the independent variables compensated with variable notation, shouldn't we be working with that?
And the way to do it is to lower technique requirements, lower them.
Not saying dumb it down to nothing.
I'm saying have a small piece of the programming that is just reliant on that.
Isn't that nice?
Wouldn't you, as a coach, wouldn't you, as an athlete, want to have that part of the programming as well?
We have the other end.
Why would we not with this end?
And you don't have with rowing, by the way.
Rowing is not the thing, and you don't even have it with running.
Running is not the thing, because you've all seen it.
You take somebody that comes in the gym, that is 295 pounds.
You know, 100 pounds overweight.
They're 5'7.
You're like, okay, so we're going to do this running workout and it has these 400s in it.
What do they do?
They either walk or they sub something else out because it's too much.
They can't do it.
Everyone can do the bike.
It's a really powerful tool.
All right, that's our 20 minutes.
Thank you for the questions, everybody.
I know we, you know.
This is not exactly the two-minute drill like we originally envisioned.
It's a hybrid of the two, I guess.
I still love it.
I think it's great.
ChasingExcellenceemail folks, if you want to get a question in the queue, I'd love to get a bunch of really good questions as we get into the new year so that we can plan all these episodes out and maybe Ben and I can talk faster so we can get through more of them.
ChasingExcellence.email, put your email in there.
Get on the free newsletter list or consider jumping into the Chase Club, which is our premium membership.
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Ben, thank you as always.
We'll be back soon for a brand new episode of Chasing Excellence.
