Welcome to the Overwhelmed Brain Podcast, helping you navigate the difficulties in your life and relationships.
These are my personal opinions.
Always seek a professional when you're making choices about your mental health and wellbeing.
I'm sorry.
This is an unusual beginning for an episode of the overwhelmed brain, because my brain is not giving me the data that I need to start the show in a good way.
Am I going to leave this in the final recording?
Probably.
This is, you know, the more relaxed me, the more relaxed unprofessional me.
So i am glad that you are here.
Thanks for joining me for another episode.
And uh, i want to talk about something.
I got this a few years back and it came to me again because of a news article.
A few years ago, gabby and brian, i think it was where this man in florida got arrested for killing his girlfriend, I think.
Gabby, I want to say Gabby Patino, or I forget her name, but it was on the news.
It was a very popular case.
And somebody wrote to me and said her husband watched the news report on the case.
And her husband said, well, She had it coming because you can tell she's argumentative.
I don't even know how to respond to that.
How do you respond to somebody who says something so heinous and unempathetic and unsympathetic and just downright cruel?
The person who wrote to me was his wife.
So his wife was writing to me, telling me all the emotionally abusive things that he does.
And this was one of those times where she said it was the first time I actually felt very scared.
And yeah, you should.
If somebody talks like that, that's a serious issue, let alone how inconsiderate it is to someone who died at the hands of their partner.
And so you have someone's partner saying, yeah, she deserved it because she's argumentative.
That's just a terrible thing to say or even joke about.
And what's interesting is that He may not have meant it.
I don't know.
I hope not.
But I have a feeling he said it as a means to well, I know this for, probably for a fact as a means to control.
Because when you come off as or not you, but if someone comes off as intimidating to you and you don't want to be hurt or you will more likely do what they want you to do.
You will more likely submit to whatever they want because you don't want to be hurt.
And that helps them keep power over you.
And so this woman's in this relationship with this man, her husband, I think.
And he says this really crazy cruel thing about someone's death and how her death was justified because she was argumentative.
And so this is me going through my old emails and remembering this particular message and wondering how could anybody ever say that?
And I think the bottom line is that there are just some people who will do or say things in a cruel way to gain control or stay in power.
And that is abusive.
It's just a terrible, toxic thing to do.
And this happens more often than not.
It's something I learned in hypnosis a long time ago called quoting, when you quote someone as a means to talk directly to the person, but you're quoting somebody else and for example uh, let's just say that you are mad at your boss and you want to say something to your boss, but you know saying it will get you fired or whatever.
And so you say hey, I saw my coworker and she said that you were a real jerk.
And what that person is doing is.
They are taking themselves out of the equation and quoting someone else, but saying it to the person as a means to get their message across, as a means to tell that person hey, they really are a jerk.
So this is something I don't recommend you do, but this is something that happens.
And so you have to be aware of it.
Somebody might say something using quotes to say something about you.
And so let's say a couple has a child. old enough to talk, maybe 10, 12, whatever.
And one of the parents says, hey, you know, I'll just call him Billy.
Billy said that you are a terrible mom.
It's a mean thing to say.
And even somebody quoting it, somebody who cares about you, somebody who loves you or claims to love you, really shouldn't be Repeating that quote.
In my opinion, they shouldn't be saying Hey, Billy says that you're a terrible mom.
But if their agenda or their goal is to make the mom feel bad or, in this case, his wife, if his goal is to make his wife feel bad, he might use a quote by saying So-and-so says you're a terrible mom.
So-and-so says you're a terrible wife.
So-and-so says you are terrible at your job.
And when that happens, it can hurt.
It does hurt when you hear things about yourself.
But when you hear it from a loved one who takes themselves out of the equation by saying somebody else said it, It's hard to process because you're hearing this.
And at the same time, your loved one is kind of playing you, because they're the ones who are trying to say, at least in the examples I'm giving,
And so the reason I mentioned that is because of this Gabby and Brian thing, where Brian killed his wife and This guy said well, she probably deserved it.
This tells me that the person who reached out to me, her husband, is intimidating her by saying that somebody who's argumentative would probably get hurt and their hurt would be justified.
And so it's like he said, if you do that, I'm going to do the same thing to you.
It's very similar to that.
It is a very subtle method of toxic behavior.
And it might be hard to recognize in the moment, but it's important.
It's important that you understand how it can happen.
People can say things that other people said, or they say other people said to you to make you feel bad.
But it's really coming from the person who's speaking.
And so I see this message that somebody sent me and they say that's what their husband said about this person.
And she said, I got scared.
This woman on TV got strangled and my husband said she probably deserved it because she is argumentative.
That's something to be scared about.
Yes.
And in fact.
This is something I talk about when it comes to somebody who threatens suicide, especially when it comes to like the end of a relationship.
I actually have an episode on love and abuse over at loveandabusecom called If You Leave Me, I'll Kill Myself.
And that is the ultimate emotionally abusive behavior that some people use to prevent the other person from leaving.
It uses their own sympathy and empathy against them.
Because somebody who is sympathetic, who's empathetic, who cares, who's kind, who's supportive, does not want the person they're with to kill themselves.
And so someone may be using this abuse tactic.
You know, if you leave me, I'll kill myself.
If you leave me, I'll hurt myself.
If they do that, you have to treat it as if it were serious.
That's what I talk about in the other episode on love and abuse.
You have to treat.
Everything they say as serious, when they're using things like this to hurt you or force you to do things that you don't want to do.
If you don't want to stay in a relationship.
You know somebody who says I'll kill myself if you leave.
They're already using coercion and manipulation.
And of course, they may be serious about it too.
Don't get me wrong.
They might be serious about very much about that.
But if they're saying that it is my opinion and I think this is a strong opinion that you should take it 100 seriously every time.
Now, what does that mean?
That means if somebody says I'm going to kill myself if you leave, you should take it seriously that they are ready to kill themselves, whether you leave or not.
And that's the key, because some people will say, OK, I'll stay.
And that means that person won't kill themselves.
If you think that way, you get locked into that a cycle of repetitive abuse over and over again through manipulation, through coercion, through passive aggressiveness at least in this example where somebody uses a tactic like that and again, it's not always a tactic, some people are serious, it has happened but that's why i think it's very important To treat anyone who says anything like that is a serious threat, which is why I'm talking about this other person who said her husband said that here I am quoting her husband said that she deserved it.
She deserved it because she was argumentative.
He said something like that.
And for this woman to stay in that relationship after that.
She's taking a huge risk because if I were her I would take it 100 seriously that he meant what he said.
Because as soon as you try to give somebody the benefit of the doubt when they say something like that, That's when the toxic or abuse cycle continues, because you think well, maybe they didn't mean that.
Maybe they were joking.
When you take things seriously, you get things done faster.
You make decisions faster.
You get your life in order faster and you take bigger steps because you are taking it seriously.
And when you take it seriously, you start to think differently.
You start to put things together in your brain differently.
Because if you said hey, a friend of mine or my partner or whoever just threatened to kill themselves, what should I do?
That's different than saying my partner friend, my partner or whoever just threatened to kill themselves, so I won't leave.
It's different because one keeps you in the same place and the other moves you forward.
Where does this all lead?
It leads to if somebody uses a threat like that and they say, let's just say that what this guy said, that Woman probably deserved it because she was, or he could tell she was, argumentative.
If you took that as a real threat, like, wow, he is capable of killing someone.
What would you do then?
Because when you make a decision from that place, then even if this turns out to be a very sick joke
They will stop making sick jokes like that, because the result of that behavior, the result of what this guy said, would have been her leaving.
She would not want to stay in a relationship with somebody who says that an argumentative person deserved to be killed.
I think taking threats or comments like this guy made seriously will protect you in the long run and put you in better situations in the long run and maybe even save your life.
Because what ends up happening is when you take people seriously at their word for saying things like this and you don't sugarcoat it, and you tell yourself that this is a serious threat, suddenly you think differently, you act differently, you do different things.
You don't stay in a situation that could be very dangerous to you.
In the past what we might tend to do.
I say in the past, like in other relationships, where somebody has used maybe something threatening or said something threatening, we may not have believed them.
We may have believed that they were just saying that to be a bully or just joke or whatever.
But what has been the trend?
What has been the pattern in the relationship?
Has it been Controlling or manipulative or just mean spirited.
Has that existed?
Because when something like that comes out, it's a lot easier to believe along those lines that there's some sense of seriousness to it.
And don't get me wrong, I understand that some people do joke and it's very cold and morbid and cruel.
And those people probably need to mature a little bit, especially with somebody that may not appreciate jokes like that.
But if the relationship has been difficult up to this point, then saying something like that.
If not taken seriously, you end up repeating that over and over again.
So if you feel threatened or you feel scared in a relationship that doesn't go away, if you don't take it seriously when they say things like this,
So again, my whole point is.
When you're in a relationship with somebody, whether it's a friendship or a typically romantic relationship, but it can happen at work.
It can happen in a grocery store.
If they say things like this, taking it seriously causes you to act and think differently.
And in that episode, I talked about love and abuse.
I said would they continue using that as a means to control you into staying in the relationship that you don't want to stay in?
Would they keep using that if, every time they threatened to commit suicide, you called the suicide hotline?
And you handed it to them or something like that.
And this is a very, very hard subject to talk about.
I'm not giving this as advice.
I'm not telling you this is what you should do.
If you listen to that episode, you'll hear me try to tread very carefully around this subject, because it's not easy and there is no good answer.
There are just suggestions.
There are just my opinions.
And I don't want you to think that this is what you should do.
This is something that I share with you, because I've heard from so many people who have been in challenging situations with somebody who used threats and did this quoting thing that I'm talking about.
Like this guy saying, oh, she deserved it because I could tell she's argumentative.
They have said things that put fear in the other person.
And when we treat it as serious, we actually do something about it, typically.
And that could be leaving.
That could be calling the authorities.
That could be calling someone's family just to get them involved.
Even though maybe in your heart, you know they're joking.
Or you know they're using it as a coercion or manipulation.
I've seen that a lot.
It usually comes from obsessive people who don't want the relationship to end.
So they will do anything to cause the other person to stay.
And it works with kind, caring, empathetic, sympathetic people.
It works because...
They don't want the person to hurt themselves or kill themselves, but they shouldn't be faced with the dilemma that they would be responsible for somebody else's life.
That's not the kind of predicament we put somebody else in.
We are not responsible for somebody else's life when they're making decisions to hurt or alter their life in some way.
Which goes back to the reason I say that we should take it seriously.
If you took it seriously, what would you do then?
That is my main point.
If you took somebody's veiled threat seriously, what would you do then?
If I told you that it's 100 true what they're saying and you should be very careful because of what they said, what would you do then?
And maybe you're listening and you're thinking, well, nobody really says that kind of stuff to me.
And that's great.
If that's the case, that's great for everyone else that might hear this from somebody else.
What would you do or say if you knew for a fact that what they were saying was 100% true?
Like if somebody says, I'm going to kill you, what would you do or say if that was 100% true?
And again, I look at patterns.
Has this been a pattern in the relationship?
That doesn't mean they threaten all the time, but if they've always made you feel bad, or they try to control or coerce you or manipulate you, or they've just been toxic in other ways, then something like that comes along.
The reason I usually say treat it 100 seriously is because when they find out the consequences of saying that stuff, They find out that it's not worth saying.
Because honestly, if the police arrive every time they say something like that, they're going to stop doing it.
They don't want that consequence.
And again, I'm not telling you to do this or I'm not giving you this advice.
I'm just telling you, this is probably what I would do if I was in that situation with somebody who was using threats like that against me.
And it's tough.
It's tough to determine if somebody's being serious.
That's why you should not leave too much room for interpretation.
Because you don't know if somebody's being serious until it happens.
And that's a terrible way to find out.
I don't want you to find out that way.
Because if it happens, then it might be too late.
Again, that's over at loveandabuse.com if you want to hear that episode.
If you leave me, I'll kill myself.
And that can be very helpful if you are dealing with anybody that uses these threats or even the threat of leaving.
Like this person who wrote to me.
She said he kept saying he was going to divorce or leave me if I didn't do what he wanted, or whatever you know, agree with him, or something like that.
And he kept saying it to her over and over and over again as a threat to control her.
And she finally said, you know what, if you want to divorce me or leave me, then go ahead and do it.
Because before then she would submit, she would say, okay, please don't leave.
Please, please, please.
Because he knew that she was in love and he was using her love against her, her love for him against her.
And so he found it easy to manipulate her by saying things like this.
But when she finally said, okay, fine, go ahead and leave.
He actually did.
This is what I'm saying is that You have to treat it seriously, because they may actually go through with what they're threatening.
And he did.
And I know why he did.
Of course, he didn't want to.
And this is my own interpretation, my own analysis.
He didn't want to leave.
He wanted her to submit and be under his control so he could have power over her.
So when he said, I'm going to divorce you, he expected her to comply and do what he wanted.
But when she finally said, go ahead and leave, go ahead and get a divorce.
He did not want to be wrong or look wrong.
So he decided to pack up and leave.
And he did.
And since then, he's been blaming her for him leaving.
He said he was going to leave.
Of course, he's going to take it seriously.
But he's been blaming her for him leaving.
He wouldn't have to leave if she didn't say that.
Uh-huh.
Okay.
It's one of those threats that didn't work and now he's trying to blame her for what he did.
That sounds like another episode I did recently.
They accuse you for the things they do.
And then they play victim as if you were the problem.
And when you have somebody like that, that doesn't end until you end it.
They don't stop that behavior until there's some sort of accountability or consequence.
If you're a therapist, you help others, but you also need help.
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Again, that's simplepractice.com.
Now the message.
I'm talking about this woman who said that her husband said those words about the woman who got strangled.
She also said that my husband has a gun and I'm afraid.
I don't know if he's going to use it and I'm also afraid to leave.
What if I leave and he does something like that?
Absolutely.
That's why I say take it seriously.
You do have to plan ahead so that you are creating the safest exit if that's your plan.
If you need to protect yourself, you do have to plan ahead.
You do have to get maybe other people involved, a support system.
I'm not going to go into all the details with that, because there are resources online on how to escape an abusive relationship, how to create an escape plan, and those are important about.
That is important.
If you are in that kind of environment, then you definitely want to figure out an escape plan, if that's what you need to do.
Now, just as a little FYI, a little PSA, I guess when you search on the internet, everything you search for goes into history.
So if you can find a friend's internet to search how to create an escape plan, you will be safer to do it on somebody else's phone or somebody else's computer typically.
Again, that's a deep subject that you should definitely learn more about if you're in that environment and just take care of yourself and protect yourself and those you love.
So I hope that helped anyone who needed to hear that.
I'm going to finish this episode off with something a little different, but along the same lines of taking something seriously.
Somebody wrote and said that his marriage feels like it's no longer the priority it once was.
She's on her phone all the time.
She's addicted to social media.
And she's got all these side gigs and just doesn't pay attention to him and the marriage.
And he feels that the intimacy has disappeared due to all these distractions.
And then, when he asks for his needs to be met, like flirting or physical intimacy, he feels forgotten and ignored.
So he reacts by withdrawing and using the silent treatment as a form of punishment.
He admits to occasionally even blowing up and saying hurtful things, though he usually apologizes later.
So sorry going through that.
But here's an instance where the other person needs to take it seriously.
When you asked for connection, any type of connection, the flirting, the physical intimacy, and you feel forgotten and ignored.
I would bring it up again
Like, hey, you know, I really want to connect with you.
Will you take some time to connect with me?
Can we spend some time together?
And you are ignored or it's just not happening.
If you bring it up and it doesn't happen, There need to be consequences.
And what that might mean, it doesn't mean you just leave.
It doesn't mean you yell and explode and things like that.
And we'll talk about that in a moment.
But it might mean you just say, look, I'm serious.
It might mean that you just have a real heart to heart talk saying look, I'm feeling neglected in this relationship.
I don't get any time with you anymore.
I want time with you.
And when you ask for time with somebody, it should never be about them giving something up.
It should be about your needs and expressing what you need from them and from the relationship.
Because if you say, I want you to give up all your phone time, it's not going to go well.
But if you said I would really love to spend more time with you tonight, I would really love to go to a movie with you.
I would really love to go out to dinner with you.
I want to hold your hand.
I want to watch the sunset.
I want to do this together.
I want to do it without technology coming between us.
That's what I want.
I just want your time.
Because, when it comes down to it, there's a certain – number of hours a day, or even number of hours a week that needs to be connection time in order for a relationship to continue on a good trajectory.
There needs to be a number or an amount of time that you can spend together that you feel is quality time, because if it's not quality time and Either one or both of you are sitting on your phone and really ignoring each other all the time, Then you're not getting your needs met, and this is what it sounds like this person going through.
He's not getting his needs met, and so, in order to get your needs met, you need more quality time.
And again, this doesn't mean that Giving up something.
It means investing in something else or investing in something also.
Because I have no problem with my wife being on her phone and doing her work, because she works all day long and she makes a lot of calls and she looks at a lot of social media.
It happens.
But I don't feel neglected.
Because I get enough quality time with her, although we do need more.
I'll admit that.
We both admit that.
We do need more.
We're always so busy.
But if I felt like total neglect, she would understand.
She would take me seriously.
Hey, honey, I want more time with you.
I want you to finish by 8 PM instead of 9 PM or midnight.
We both work hard.
We both work from home.
So it's not like we come home to each other.
We actually get to see each other throughout the day, but we are busy.
So we just stay busy throughout the day in our own little part of the house.
And then we connect when we can.
But the point is, if I felt neglected or if she feels neglected, we're going to speak up and we're going to take each other seriously.
Because the last thing I want is my wife to be unhappy.
I don't want her to feel neglected.
And if she ever does, that's when I reevaluate and reprioritize. just like this person's wife, should reevaluate and reprioritize or at least fit him in between the phone use, between the side gigs that she's doing that he mentioned.
And so when you feel like you are also important, that might be just enough.
But if you feel like you need to be paid attention to 24-7 and that they should never look at their phone, that probably won't work.
We don't want to take away somebody's individual pursuits or individual interests.
We want to allow them to be themselves and include us in their lives.
And when that happens there can be a good balance.
And then we can feel comfortable when they pick up their phone or pay attention to something else or don't stop watching the game or whatever it is for you.
When there's enough quality time together and you both feel like your needs and wants are getting met, then the individual pursuits and interests aren't a problem.
So this is why I actually appreciate when my wife and I have our own things, that we like our own interests, our own hobbies, our own pursuits, and we also take the time to connect with each other.
And again, we probably need to do that more often.
I'm just saying that in case she ever listens.
But you get my point.
Like if I was on the phone and I was really engaged in something and my wife said I need your attention or I want your attention.
I put the phone down.
That's what I do.
That's what I want to do, because I take her seriously and I want her to know that she is my priority.
So I really feel bad for this guy who now is in a relationship with somebody who is now making other things a priority.
But that kind of tells me that his wife is probably looking for that escape.
Talking about an escape plan.
She's probably looking for an escape. away from the relationship, and the question is why.
Is she no longer interested?
Is he being a jerk?
I don't know, all this stuff.
But he did share that he reacts by withdrawing and using the silent treatment as a form of punishment.
The silent treatment is very destructive to a relationship, and it highlights a couple things.
One.
It highlights that you don't feel secure enough in yourself to speak up and say hey, this is a problem.
And I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad thing in itself, because a lot of people have insecurities.
But what ends up happening, especially in heterosexual relationships between men and women I've seen this more often than not is that a woman will look at an insecure partner a man in this case differently than she would look at a secure partner.
Because I tell you what, when I started showing up as more secure in my relationships, I felt more connected.
I felt like we could have honest conversations and that my partner trusted me more, felt safer around me and was able to express herself more with me.
All because I felt secure in myself.
Whereas in my past relationships, my silent treatment was just like yours.
It was a means to be hurtful and cause her to feel guilty and cause her to dote on me more.
I'm not proud of it.
It's just part of what I used to do when I was an emotionally abusive person.
I had to learn and I had to heal from that.
But healing from that particular behavior changed my life.
And it does involve you becoming more secure in yourself, becoming more confident in yourself and facing scary things that you want to say.
Because if you don't say them and you withdraw, what happens?
Less and less connection.
So if I were this person.
I would stop the silent treatment now.
It stops.
It's over.
Do not withdraw.
If you're going to do anything, express.
Don't withdraw.
Express.
He says, I admit to occasionally blowing up and saying hurtful things.
Well, that happens because you hold it in.
You hold all that in and then one day you blow up.
So if you don't express, it comes out later in destructive ways.
So my advice is you stop withdrawing.
So when you feel like, oh crap, I'm going to withdraw because she just she's not doing what I want her to do,
And she's not paying attention to me, even though I told her to pay attention to me or I want her attention.
I want her love.
I want her connection.
And none of that is happening.
Don't withdraw.
What is on your mind?
Express it.
Hey, when you don't pay attention to me, I feel like this marriage is kind of stale.
I would like to talk to you.
I would like to connect with you.
I love you.
So instead of withdrawing I'm not saying you have to say that, but instead of withdrawing, you are coming out of your shell
You're not going into it.
You stay out of your shell.
You want to show her that you are here and that you are also not going to let this go.
Because if you let this go, what happens?
It happens again.
So this is.
This might be a serious and a hard conversation to have because she is withdrawing from you.
This is her form of withdrawing from you.
If she's not paying any attention to you, you don't feel love, you don't feel connection and she's getting lost on her phone and all that, then those things are becoming, or have become, priorities to her, so that she doesn't have to spend time with you.
And that doesn't sound very nice.
When I say that, when it came out of my mouth it doesn't sound very nice at all, but that's what it sounds like to me.
It sounds like she is trying to take time away from us and trying to put more time into her herself, and if she's doing that, then something in the relationship has changed Or she doesn't want to deal with something going on inside of you.
Because if you're the kind of person who withdraws, it will be very difficult for her to connect with you and feel safe around you, because she doesn't have what she feels is a safe partner.
And I'm not saying you're not, but sometimes. insecurity shows up as fear and desperation.
And if you are coming to the relate or bringing those things to the relationship and she senses that and she doesn't like it because she wants a secure, confident partner, then she might try to get away from that and be in her own space.
So she doesn't have to be around any insecurities or fear or desperation, because it doesn't work for her.
And again, this is typical in heterosexual relationships with men and women, but it happens all over any type of relationship.
And I can certainly relate to as a man who was the person that you're describing now.
The more you withdraw, the more likely somebody will withdraw from you.
And you also mentioned your email, which I didn't read on the air.
You're not sure if it's the chicken or the egg.
You know, what came first?
Was it her withdrawing or your withdrawing or her behaviors or your behavior?
Yeah, it doesn't really matter now.
It doesn't matter what came first.
What matters now is how you show up today.
And if you start showing up as more secure in yourself, willing to express what's going on inside of you, willing to express what you feel and what you're missing, and not allowing it to just disappear.
But when you express what you need.
And you don't get it.
You express it again.
And then you're more serious.
Hey, look, I'm really serious.
We're not getting off time together.
Why don't we plan this night?
Why don't we just go out some night?
Be serious.
Actively invest in us.
Quote us.
Actively invest in the relationship.
So that you are working toward something instead of pulling away from something.
And then if it works out, great, you're moving in the right direction.
And if it doesn't work out, and you're trying all this stuff and she still doesn't want to connect, then there's something a lot more difficult or complex going on.
Or maybe it's not complex at all.
And she's just in a different place than you.
And I don't know if you can get it back or not.
But that is probably a hard conversation you need to have because this cannot continue.
The way things are going cannot continue.
I hope that helps.
Thanks for tuning into this very different episode of the overwhelmed brain.
Thanks for allowing me to um, let loose, be myself, be creative and share with you some of my insights and opinions.
I want to take a moment to thank the patrons this week Christy and Anna and Sandra and Debbie and Tammy not Debbie Debra.
Sorry, Debra.
Didn't mean to mispronounce that, but I don't know if you ever went by Debbie.
But I appreciate all of you.
Thank you for your support.
I am very grateful and humbled that you would give.
Thank you for giving.
And if you value the show like these patrons do and you want to give back, head over to moreTOBcom and there are options to do that over there.
And I want to tell you about the Love and Abuse podcast.
I already mentioned it earlier in the show, but if you are dealing with a difficult relationship and you need to know how to navigate it, listen to my other show called Love and Abuse over at loveandabusecom.
And if you know you're the difficult one in the relationship, join the program that is helping thousands of people heal over at healedbeingcom.
And with that, always keep your mind open because that's how you make the best decisions.
And be firm in your decisions and actions so that you can create the life you want.
Always take steps to grow and evolve.
You are powerful beyond measure.
And above all, and this is something I absolutely know to be true about you, Thank you.
