Discussion keeps the world turning.
This is Roundtable.
You're listening to Roundtable with myself Hyeong!
I'm joined by Steve Hatherly and Yu Shen in the studio.
Coming up, ever feel like you're drowning in a sea of AI tools at work?
From chatbots to data analyzers, it seems like every task now comes with its own digital assistance.
Or dis -digital assistant.
But with so many options available, are we making our lives easier or just adding to the chaos?
And our special segment Motivational Monday come your way will give you that adrenaline shot for the start of the week.
Our podcast listeners can find us at Roundtable China on Apple Podcast.
If you have questions that you want us to answer on social issues, business, technology, or whatever moves your spirit, you can send those our way.
Roundtable Podcast at QQ .com is where you can do it.
Emails are fine but voice memos are always better because we'd love to have your voice on our show.
Now on Roundtable, as we continue our discussion and I would suggest that let's turn our attention to AI in the workplace.
The advent of artificial intelligence or AI is changing the world.
While AI has not yet disrupted all businesses, the road that it leads to fundamentally reshaped workplace is short and possibly in sight.
But change isn't always easy.
And for some offices, AI may be doing more harm than good.
We've all heard the buzz about AI transforming workplaces, but is it possible to have too much of a good thing already, Steve?
Good question, isn't it?
And I think if you are listening to Roundtable today and you've seen AI in your workplace in many cases, then you might be thinking, yes, it is too much, too fast, too soon, but other offices might be handling it perfectly.
And I think it's an office by office situation.
But as we get into it today, let's talk about the real life story of Anurag Garg.
Anurag Garg runs a company called Everest PR.
And when chat GPT came out in late 2022, he was really excited for his team.
His team is 11 people.
And he was really excited to have the technology incorporated into his workplace, into his office, to get his staff of 11 quickly incorporating the tech into their workflow on a daily basis.
So he did that. And he did that because he wanted his company to keep up with other companies who were potentially going to be incorporating chat GPT into their workplace as well.
So when he did this, he thought, this is going to be fantastic.
Everything's going to go super smoothly.
All the employees are going to be really excited about this.
And what happened was the exact opposite.
Productivity did not increase.
It decreased as a matter of fact.
Stress, more stress, yes, not less.
More tension, not less tension.
And the staff started complaining that their jobs were taking longer than they did before chat GPT was introduced to the workplace because of a few different reasons.
Number one, they had to create prompts for chat GPT.
And then they had to double, and this would be the painstaking part of the process as well, then they had to double check what it created to make sure that it was factually correct, to make sure that it was accurate because oftentimes it was not.
Then every time the platform got updated, then they needed to learn the changes that were happening there.
And it really, really slowed them down.
And this is an American workplace story.
I believe his PR company is out of India.
Out of India. Okay.
That some of these issues can be seen a lot of scenarios in these tech companies or companies are using AI because it is actually not an easy thing to be honest, to use all of these AI tools you need to learn to use this.
And if you would like to, you know, use them effectively or efficiently, there are some particular skills that you need to learn to, no matter it's create a prompt or just utilize and fact check about the result that you're getting.
So I can understand that the flow or the result that they're getting.
Yeah. So he was using chat GPT as well, but then he was using another AI tool to track his team's tasks.
Then he was using another AI tool to supplement client research.
And he said, this is his quote.
He said, the market suddenly flooded with AI tools.
So I invest in one of them today.
And then another one comes out next week, which is better than the one that I already invested in.
Suddenly I've lost money on that because I need to reinvest.
There's a constant learning curve to stay relevant.
That's difficult to manage.
And it led to burnout.
And what about AI tools that are most widely used in the workplace here in China?
And are we encountering similar headaches or whatnot?
Actually, I personally can feel that they are just more and more AI tools nowadays, and they are being so good at something or like particular area that they're good at.
So there are some like mostly chat bots, I would say, Kimi chat, developed by moonshot AI.
That's an AI company.
It is a chat bot that you can upload some files and let them like manage and also analyze and also summarize for you.
And also the AI developed by the search engine Baidu is called Ernie bot or Wenxing yian in Chinese.
And also Doba, which is an AI chat bot produced by ByteDance.
The parent company of DoYing.
And these mostly are just artificial intelligence that based on chat bots, and you can communicate with them, you can give them tasks that they can finish tasks for you with maybe even some videos, pictures and files that you gave them.
Kind of like having an extra coworker in the office.
Having your own assistants.
And also for years, well not for years, for months or more than a year, the AI companies have been touting that the next upgrade with their AI tools is that your digital assistant is going to be more tailor made for you according to your own habits and purposes at work.
Can it sort of tailor make towards what you need?
But has that already happened?
Or well, personally, I haven't really seen, or maybe because I haven't really been using the paid models yet.
I'm very stingy with my money, I guess.
And I won't pay until sort of, I know for a fact that there's one true winner out of so many digital assistants out there.
But yeah, a quick search on the internet, we can see that at least here in China, and this is according to Lead Leo Research Institute, a breakdown of the Chinese data processing to be the most important, well used sort of part of the office workplace.
And I see 39 % of the office assistant sort of activity is surrounding this.
And it includes all kinds of stuff about like data cleaning.
This is a new term for me.
It's the process of identifying, correcting or removing errors, inconsistencies and inaccuracies from data to ensure it's accurate, complete and usable.
Useful for accounting departments, I would think.
Or just coding things.
Everything. Because nowadays when we're using all the tools, preferably the data that's being thrown in there is reliable.
And that's something that we can't always sort of take for granted and also presentation collaboration.
That's 21 % of the market.
Text processing plus AI, that's like 23 % of the market activity.
So these are the top things people are doing with their AI assistants.
So it sounds like these AI assistants are very helpful and it should start to make the workplace a more convenient and more streamlined place to be.
But there was a survey done of 2500 knowledge workers in the US, UK, Australia and Canada.
And it was a freelance platform called Upwork that did this survey.
96 % of top executives said that they expect the use of AI tools to increase their company's overall productivity levels.
Okay, so people at the top are thinking, yeah, okay, if we introduce these tools, this is going to be a big benefit for our company.
81 % of those acknowledge that they've increased demands on workers over the last year.
But 77 % of employees in the survey said that AI tools have actually decreased their productivity and added to their workload, not decreased their workload.
It's actually given them more to do.
47 % of employees using AI in the survey said that they have no idea how to achieve the productivity gains that their employers expect.
So the people at the top are saying, oh, all these AI tools, oh my gosh, our company is going to be a lot more productive now.
Hey, you employees, now you have to be more productive as well.
But asking the employees, wait a sec, we don't really know how to use these AI tools yet.
And that's creating more work for us, not less.
And that's going to add, then the intangibles come into play about being stressed at work, not being as productive, leading to exhaustion, and again, leading to burnout.
I also saw some of these theories saying that with the help of artificial intelligence, also all of these machines, half of all jobs currently performed by humans may be handled by machines and AIs in the future.
And overall, this could lead to a global productivity increase of 1 % or more.
But there is very little research on the skills workers need to fully utilize AI tools.
So we have already listed so many AI tools previously, but how many people can actually use them proficiently and effectively.
And if people cannot use this technology correctly, simply just adding more AI tools will not automatically lead to the increased efficiency of that.
And it's having a kind of a spillover effect onto the work that they already know how to do.
A further study was done by a work management platform.
And they asked 9 ,600 people plus across Australia, France, Germany, Japan, the UK and the US.
And they were asking about AI in the workplace.
And they said, of those surveyed, they use 15 different types of apps in the workplace.
And 15 % say they're missing messages and notifications, simply because of the number of tools that they're required to suddenly learn and use in the workplace.
Meaning, their emails that they typically respond to their messages, they're missing those now because they're busy dealing with the apps they have to deal with.
Right. And that does sound like a very chaotic situation to be suddenly thrusted into for all employees.
But somehow, I don't think this is all that difficult to counter.
Because, okay, you're saying there are too many options.
Just narrow it down.
Instead of 15, just use three.
And it's not that difficult to see which ones are easier to use or more efficient.
I think people are so much smarter than that, because it takes like, okay, a month, and then you'll know which ones are easier to use.
You know what, maybe, it could be very harsh to say that you're treating these, I mean, easier said than done.
Actually, using AI has a significant threshold to you to entry.
I mean, I was thinking about this question, I searched a little bit, information about this online.
Last month, the cyberspace administration of China released a report on people's level of digital literacy and skills, which means how people can utilize information technology.
So the results show that among adults in China, 60 % have basic or higher levels of digital literacy.
But among them, with 16 % at an advanced level, 21 % at a media or middle level, and 23 % at a basic level, the number seems quite promising or very optimistic.
But when we're seeing the one that behind this, I mean, 40 % of people or Chinese adult are not having the basic skills.
So therefore, now imagine that that's one workplace, 40 % of the people in that company don't have the basic skills, plus your extra 30 % that might have those basic skills, but they still have to spend that time figuring it out.
And one interesting is that 64 % of young or minors possess a basic or higher levels of digital literacy and skills, which is higher than adults.
So when we are seeing this, maybe students, they have a more or more time learning computer skills, or these kind of technology, information technology.
And when we're becoming an adult, we just forget, even though we learned it, we may forget.
Sorry, for digital natives.
I mean, if you're used to this, if you're using it every day, then the more use, the better you understand it.
I think it's simple as that.
And I think it's potentially not that difficult for our workforce to be equipped with these skills.
If you use it, if you have to use it as part of your work every day, then we'll all learn.
I don't see, sure, I see the not so rosy side of things, but as a workforce, we'll have to adapt, we'll have to get better.
And also, Steve, you mentioned burnout a couple of times.
Mm -hmm. How serious is this issue regarding AI -driven tools to user burnout?
Yeah. Well, experts say that it's not, you know, burnout is something that's difficult to measure, right?
You can't just put a thermometer in an employee's mouth and it says burnout on it.
But the experts say that when you're looking at burnout, it's not about the volume of the work that employees are doing.
It's not even necessarily about the difficulty factor, about learning new things.
But it is about how you feel about the work that you are doing.
So for employees that are suddenly forced to learn all of these new apps, how to use all these new apps, all this new tech, this can have an impact on how they feel about themselves at the job that they are doing.
Not just being frustrated by the tasks themselves, but more of a bigger picture look, and this is the connection to burnout.
Mm -hmm. Yes, I can understand feeling overwhelmed, feeling that there's the need of constant adaptation.
I mentioned nowadays at the workplace, it's learning on the job.
It's a lifetime learning experience now.
Nobody can just rest on their laurels and think, oh, with my four -year degree or plus the master's or plus another degree, then you're set for life.
No, no, no. It's not like that anymore.
And also with increased workload, that is ...
Well, something ...
Are we surprised about that?
I mean, that's the ...
One of the fundamental traits of capitalist workplace or market, because if your boss can employ one person doing two people's jobs, that will happen.
They will. They will, unless there's a counter force towards that to keep a check and balance.
I was thinking of the times when computers suddenly found their way into the workplace, probably the same attitudes existed at the time.
People who used to do their work manually, data keeping something like that, pen on paper, well, I don't want to use this new fancy technology.
This is stupid. I've been doing my job for 30 years and I've never had ...
Probably the same kind of thing is happening now.
We're in transition phase.
But what's interesting too, we've talked about it from the employee's point of view, but when they asked business leaders how they felt about this, there was a survey done by UiPath in 2023, 79 % of business leaders said that they know they need to adopt AI to remain competitive in their market, but 59
% of them said they're worried about gains in productivity.
And then this is really fascinating too.
60 % of business leaders said that their companies don't have a plan or a vision for implementing AI.
And they feel that essentially their company now is just treading water or almost frozen, not moving forward in a sense.
Well, you shouldn't, what do you see as the possible way to overcome some of this anxiety and some of this real issue that have already turned up in the workplace thanks to AI.
Because when we are treating AI, some of these burnout ...
Because there are so many reasons to lead to these kind of burnout.
And then the thing is that when we are seeing these AIs are creating anxiety, then we need to, I think, put more focus on these AIs, or just putting more time on analyzing and using and learning how to use AI and make them actually can increase productivity but not trying to spending more time on just
learn different AIs.
Make them work for you.
Yeah, staying relevant isn't just about, well, isn't about competing with machines.
It's about using them as tools to elevate our creativity, empathy, and problem solving abilities.
That's, well, what I'd like to say in an ideal world.
Coming up next, Motivational Monday.
Motivational Mondays.
So, Yushuan, what do you have for us to inspire us this Monday?
Okay, so I'm not sure it's going to be inspiring, but my desk was recently moved to another office.
All of us. Hours have been.
Yeah. So initially, I was a bit reluctant because I was fully accustomed to the previous layout and my established work habits and the way that I get out from the elevator.
But once I settled at the new desk, I found out that the view by the window was more open.
Oh, thank you. Is that a compliment for me?
I sit right in front of you.
Yeah, just think that way.
And the space felt even more spacious and giving me a quiet, fresh experience.
And this led me to realize that staying in our comfort zone can indeed feel reassuring, but sometimes stepping out of it and embracing change can maybe bring new experiences and perhaps even for the better.
So that is my motivational from Monday to embrace changes in our life.
All right, Steve, what about you?
What do you have for us?
Mine is exactly, maybe it's sitting next to each other.
We are sharing the same brain now.
Mine is along the same lines.
Here's the quote. If it doesn't challenge you, it doesn't change you.
We love routine. We love our habits.
It's human nature to do that.
And that's good, but sometimes change is necessary as well.
So the reason I think we don't really like change very much, like, for example, changing our office space is because it puts us out of our comfort zone, but we're not going to grow either literally or figuratively if we're not challenging ourselves.
So I like this quote because it's a reminder that even though when change comes in your life, it might make you feel uncomfortable, but that uncomfortable feeling, maybe we can think about it like this.
That's you growing inside.
And when you reach your new growth level, then you'll have a new comfort zone that you can settle into.
And to wrap that all up, I have a song I like to share with you.
It's called Sway by New Zealand singer Beck Runga.
And it's got the perfect vibe, in my opinion, for this motivational Monday segment.
Sway reminds us just to let go and enjoy the ride.
The song's title itself is a call to action.
To sway, to move with the rhythm of life rather than resisting it.
And it's a gentle nudge to be adaptable to change, as both of you have mentioned, and finding your groove even when things don't go as planned.
So instead of stressing over plans, let's sway to the rhythm of adventure.
Soak in the good times and trust that everything will fall into place.
So do enjoy this music from Beck Runga, Sway.
And that wraps up today's show.
Thank you so much, Steve and you should for joining the discussion.
I'm Ha Young. Have a beautiful Monday.
We will see you tomorrow.
