This is an Aller's English Podcast, episode 2174.
Hey man, gender norms and saying hello in English.
Welcome to the All-Ears English Podcast,
downloaded more than 200 million times.
Are you feeling stuck with your English?
We'll show you how to become fearless and fluent
by focusing on connection, not perfection
with your American host, Aubrey Carter,
the Isle Twizz and Lindsay McMahon, the English adventurer.
Coming to you from Arizona and Colorado, USA.
And to get your transcripts delivered by email
every week, go to allearsenglish.com,
forward slash subscribe.
Today we answer a listener question.
If you're a woman, can you say,
hey man, to a guy, find out today as we dive into this layered
and complex question.
Hey Lindsay, how are you?
I'm doing awesome Aubrey. How's it going?
Wonderful. I'm great. I have a question for you.
Okay, I'm ready to say a really good two.
An amazing question we got from a listener.
Would you ever say, I missed you man.
I missed you man, to a male friend.
There's only one male friend I might say that too,
but I probably wouldn't say it in those exact words.
So today, right?
Yeah, I might use man with him a very close male friend
in certain moments, but that's exactly what we're going to get into today.
Just feel very familiar when I say it feels very familiar.
And this is interesting because I do feel like
gender comes into play a little bit,
but also just specific personalities.
Right? I feel like this would be an interesting question
to ask lots of different people and you might get a different answer from each event.
Even on our team, I bet we could survey our team and we might have a breakdown
of all different, I feel like Jessica would say this for sure.
Right.
She might have just ever been interested in this.
Right.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking too.
So it really is a person, this is going to be a great episode today.
I'm so excited for this.
So first, guys, hit follow because this is the kind of topic that we explore.
How can you use English to express your true personality?
Right, Aubrey?
Absolutely.
Yes, we have four episodes every week.
They're amazing soon five little.
Soon five.
What's coming here?
So we should hit follow, guys.
That's right.
Starting in early March, you guys will have a bonus episode on Saturdays
so you can get your dosing of all your English on the weekend as well.
Love it.
Awesome.
All right, let's read this question.
Do you want to start us out, Lizzie?
Sure. Here we go.
I'm Aki, a Korean listener, but listening from Japan,
I love what you're doing there.
Your motto, connection, not perfection, change, how I view myself when I speak or use English.
It's way more fun.
Oh, I love it.
I love that.
I love that.
So much.
So much.
So much.
I love it.
Yes.
All right, since I've never lived in any English speaking country,
I would like to ask you a somewhat cultural question.
I watch movies and dramas in English and pick up words and phrases,
but I'm not sure if they're inappropriate for me to use or not.
So I love that this listener is taking in so much
natural English, right?
Watching movies, dramas, and hearing phrases and wondering like,
okay, can I say that?
It's amazing.
Yeah, you're welcome.
What did the student ask next?
Yeah, so then they said,
when it comes to Heyman or Heypal,
I see most of the time guys say it to other guys.
I'm a girl, but I really like the connection they have when they say it.
Is it just between guys or can girls use it when speaking to guys too?
Also, does it sound too young or hip if you use it above a certain age?
I think this too as well.
I'd be about like slaying.
I let you and I are on the same page here.
I am thinking about language and am I too old to say this.
Right.
And then she continues.
Usually I would just say, hi guys,
but sometimes when I'm with my male friends who I totally feel comfortable with,
I feel like I missed you guys is not reflecting what I feel,
but I missed you man just feels right.
Are these two phrases the same thing?
I mean, does it feel the same to you as a native English speaker?
I am so excited to hear from you.
What a great question.
We are so excited to answer this.
And hopefully we come out with more answers than questions today.
We may come out with more kind of things to think about and curiosities.
I think today that's how I felt sort of planning the episode and thinking about it.
I did.
I'm like, I want to ask everyone I know how they would answer this question.
I'm going to start listening to what people say.
Yeah, so let's get into it.
Aubrey, where should we start? We're going to get our listener an answer today.
Where do we start with this?
So first we want to point out that these are both extremely familiar.
This is something that we say to close friends, right?
I missed you guys to a group.
And then I missed you man would be to an individual.
And then we want to kind of dive into these specific questions.
Like, can a girl say it to a close buddy to a close male friend?
I would not say this to another girl.
I missed you man.
But it's interesting because guy or guys,
yeah, we use this for any gender.
But that word man is specific to a male friend.
Right. So maybe we'll get the easy ones out of the way
with talking to a group first.
Right. And then we'll get into the individual stuff,
which gets a little more more nuanced.
Let's just say this is very nuanced.
There is a lot of nuance because like we said,
different people will have different opinions.
We do want to consider a person's gender identity
or if they're non-binary.
We don't want to give offense.
And so there's a lot that goes into thinking
about how to address a person.
Oh my gosh, there's a lot here.
So when we're talking to a group,
so I missed you guys.
Now, I think there is a movement
around getting away from guys.
On this show, we do address our audience as,
hey guys, right?
And we say this in a very friendly and respectful way.
Yes.
And that's how I grew up with the word guys
was very gender neutral.
I'm not thinking of, I'm just thinking of a group of people.
And that's how I grew up saying guys it didn't meet.
It was very unrelated to gender.
Right, exactly.
And I think that's fine.
I have a friend who's non-binary
and once I ask them if like how they feel
when someone addresses them and if they're in a group
and the word hey guys is used to them
and they said it is somewhat offensive.
So when I'm around that person
or just in general, I try to kind of use other things.
Like hi y'all.
I think y'all is coming back into style now.
Or I think you can definitely say I miss you all to a group.
Definitely.
Because you might not know.
You know, if someone in the group isn't,
you might not know everyone there really well.
So you can say I missed you all or just I missed everyone.
These are always going to be safe options.
Hi everyone. I brought you brought that up Lindsay
because we say you guys, how are you guys to our team?
To the listeners.
So apologies if we've offended anyone.
I hope you know this is very.
Yeah, we're not thinking of gender.
We grew up thinking of this as a neutral word.
Yeah, and I think we've talked about this on the show before.
So this is not really what we're getting into as much today.
But just as other options, high folks is something
that I hear people say when they're trying to be very,
very conscious of gender norms, high folks.
And there was another one.
I love everyone.
Hi everyone.
I probably use that most.
Yeah, for sure.
So you're going to hear it from us.
Hi guys.
It is okay.
Maybe over the next years it's going to phase out.
We will see.
We will see.
But just be aware that there may be some things going on there
with the use of that word, right?
Aubrey?
Yes.
Exactly.
Yeah.
What else?
So we are going to also share what you would say to an individual.
And this is where we're really going to get into the nuance
of who can say what to whom, what's acceptable,
and what should you not stress about,
but how different people would answer differently.
Yeah, we're going to get into that in just a minute here.
Okay, Aubrey, this is the meat of the episode.
This was really the point of the episode today.
Let's get into this.
So when you're talking to an individual, our listener asked,
as a woman, can she say, hey man, right?
Or I miss you, man.
Because this is what's interesting is, hey man,
that's kind of familiar, but I'm not that.
But to tell someone you missed them is even more familiar.
This is really, you don't usually say to coworkers, I missed you.
Like this is really implying a close friendship.
And so the more I thought about it, I realized that actually
telling someone you missed them is what maybe makes me feel like,
I don't know if I would say I missed you, man,
to very many male friends.
They would have to be a very close personal relationship.
And at least in the US, married women often don't have
that close of male friends with that, you know,
that you keep it a little more hands off sometimes.
That's true.
Absolutely.
No, I had arms linked.
This is what I meant.
Definitely hands off as well.
But you keep people more at arms linked.
Okay, I love it.
We're going for fun little puns here today.
I like it.
Good stuff.
So yeah, I agree.
I think it's very different.
It's another level of intimacy.
To say, even to a good friend, I miss you, man,
I miss you, man, versus, hey, man, what's going on?
Very different.
Very different.
Just because of the words you're saying to miss, yeah.
And I agree.
I think most people don't have most married females
in the States, especially as they get older,
may not tend to have very, very close male friends.
I think that probably is not everyone,
but I think that's true.
Usually, and that's why we were saying different people
might answer this differently.
Because there may be married partners who do,
maybe they grew up with a male friend,
or they do have a very close male friend.
And so they might say, I miss you, man, totally acceptable.
It all depends on the relationship, your comfort level.
It might be different for each person.
Yeah.
And the piece about Hey Pal, I guess we didn't quite address
that as much, but when I hear that,
I feel like that's often used in a form of kind of aggression
in movies.
Like, Hey Pal, what are you doing?
Right.
From a man to a man, usually.
Yes, often that is how we see it.
I sometimes I'll see it very lighthearted.
Like, Hey Pal, what's up?
Almost jokingly.
Or that way.
But it's more rare.
I'll definitely hear Hey Man, guys say to other guys,
he is exactly right.
I hear this all the time.
Guys saying, Hey Man, I missed you, man,
to another male friend.
It's very common.
Yeah.
I have a close male friend very close.
I mean, he was in my wedding.
And I will, I do sometimes say to him, Hey Man, right?
Because we're kind of buddy buddy going out for a drink together
or something.
But I don't think I would even say I missed you, man.
I think it's too close.
I also missed you, right?
Because I have a couple of male friends,
very close neighbors friends.
And I will say, Hey Man, we'll go out to play pickleball.
Hey man, how's it going?
No problem.
But I don't know that I would say to any of them,
I missed you, man.
That would be strange to me.
Well, I also even wonder if a man would say that to him.
I think, you know, when you think about men not always
being super comfortable with friendships with other men,
sometimes in certain generations, maybe older generations,
I don't even know.
I'm not saying broadly, I'm not saying often, probably.
Yeah, that's a good point, right?
Maybe a man would say this to a brother
or a very close male friend.
If they had gone on a trip, they
haven't seen them in a couple of years
and they meet up.
I missed you, man.
It's been a long time.
Maybe you would hear it.
Yeah, for sure.
I think some of this also might depend sometimes
on kind of not just the gender identity,
but kind of like the mood and personality of the woman,
like speaking that, right?
Like how do they see themselves?
That might be the variation there as well.
So it's about how they see themselves
to the level to which they use man, not just
about the relationship.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Because there are other options that
have very subtle different nuances, right?
If you just say to a person like,
I missed you or their name, like, I missed you, Mark, how
have you been?
There is this, it's very subtle,
but it's a little bit less familiar
when you're not being man, when you're just using their name.
It's really complicated, actually.
So think about your own kind of gender identity
or how you feel inside, I guess, right?
And then think about your level of closeness with the man
and then think about what exactly are you saying to them?
Are you saying something very intimate, like,
I missed you or are you just saying,
hey, man, let's get a drink next weekend, right?
Right.
Exactly.
There's a lot to think about when you're saying this.
And I think it is good to point out that if you are in a group
and I can really only speak for US culture,
but if you were to say like, I missed you, man,
to someone in a group, they likely are not going to be,
you know, they're not going to be thinking like,
oh, that's so weird, she called me man.
It might feel a little to them like more familiar
than they would expect from you,
but it's not going to create like an awkward public scene,
right?
This is very subtle.
Yeah.
And I would also say that man to man, when men are talking to men
and you've seen this in movies too,
you don't have to have that level of closeness at all.
You could be a complete stranger.
I'm not sure if we mentioned this yet, but like,
good point.
What are you doing looking at my girlfriend or something?
Or someone introduced you to a Justin,
this is my routine, man.
Nice to meet you.
Yes.
Totally.
It has nothing to do with familiarity when it's guy,
it's just how they talk to each other.
It's kind of interesting.
On the other side, I'll read that we don't really have
as women, like women to women, we don't really
have something like that.
It's true.
Some people will say girl.
Hey, girl.
But I don't like that.
I don't say that.
No judgment against everyone that's like, hey, girl, what's up?
It's just not me.
Oh my gosh, I just saw a movie.
What movie was it where someone, the part,
what, it must have been just a romcom where there
was a character that every time this main character
interacted with this woman, I think she was a coworker.
All she said was, hey, girl.
And then started talking, like every time it was hilarious.
It was a meme on that phrase.
It was really funny.
Yeah, it couldn't be me.
So it couldn't be me.
Oh my god, it was hilarious.
So yeah, I think hey, girl kind of puts you
in a bit of a box when you use it.
And yeah, we can go into that another day.
I feel like that was more maybe 10 years ago, a little more
common, right?
Yeah.
And then we just have sort of moved away from it.
I don't know if it became sort of cliche, a little bit cheesy.
And I think that's why it was down a little bit, I think.
For sure.
And we don't say older movies, right?
I mean, you hear people saying, hey, lady, now,
but that's also kind of maybe phasing out a little bit
or it's kind of intimate.
I guess we have that.
But we don't have anything quite as broad as, hey, man,
netting caps lights, many situations.
It's just strange.
I sometimes will say, hey, friend, hey, friend,
how's it going?
But this is also like being playful intentionally, right?
It's not something I would say all the time.
I think we should come back to that to be a counter
to this episode.
Yeah.
It's a good role place.
You can see how this would work in a conversation.
I think all of these different options
with telling someone or a group that you miss them.
So you have returned from studying abroad in this role play
and you're meeting up with me and some other friends.
All right.
Hey, guys, I missed everyone.
Welcome back.
I missed you.
It's so good to be back, but I missed the beach.
Oh, were you living close to the beach?
Yes.
I was walking distance to the beach.
It was amazing.
Nice.
Yes.
So I kind of love this as I was writing
and I was thinking, what would I actually say?
And if a friend comes back and they're like, hey,
I missed all of you.
I missed everyone.
I wouldn't say, I missed you too.
I would speak for the group and say, we missed you.
Right.
That's a good, important nuance there.
Right.
If someone is addressing the group, you're in the group.
You wouldn't say, I missed you too.
That would be strange.
I missed you.
Right.
It makes it way too intimate immediately.
It totally changes the frame of what you're saying.
Exactly.
So interesting.
And then I said, it's so good to be back,
but I missed the beach.
Now, I'm just talking about missing something.
Yeah, I wanted to add this, right?
Because this is when I use Miss the most often.
I rarely tell a person that I miss them.
Right.
My kids when they get home from school, right?
But I've been talking about missing the beach missing vacations, right?
This is when we really use Miss a ton.
For sure.
For sure.
I love that.
Okay.
All right.
What's the takeaway for today?
I feel like we kind of got to the bottom of a few things and we opened up a lot of questions
here.
A lot of reflection.
Our listeners could do.
I think a lot of reflection.
It made me do a lot of reflection.
And I have a feeling you guys are too.
I think this is probably very different in each culture.
So think about what is this like in your culture or with your friends or depending on how
familiar you are.
I am so grateful to Ahi for bringing this up so we could chat about it because this is
tricky.
It's important to be aware of phrases and greetings that are extremely familiar so that
you have a better idea of how you should greet others or whether or not you should
tell them you missed them.
Yeah.
I love it, guys.
If you love this level of nuance that you want to see with the English language, if
you're ready for it, this is what we do here on this show.
We go really deep into connection.
So go ahead and hit that follow button on all ears English and we'll see you in the
next episode.
All right, I'll bring you good stuff.
That's awesome.
Thanks.
Thank you.
Talk soon.
Bye.
Bye.
Thanks for listening to all ears English.
Would you like to know your English level?
Take our two minute quiz.
Go to all earsenglish.com forward slash fluency score.
And if you believe in connection, not perfection, then hit subscribe now to make sure you don't
miss anything.
See you next time.
