This is an All Ears English podcast, episode 2142.
Three tips to maintain trust with your colleagues when you work from anywhere with Kayla Ehrig.
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Today on the show, I have author and digital nomad Kayla Ehrig.
Kayla works from all over the world And today she shares three tips to maintain that important trust with our colleagues or clients when we work from outside the office.
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Hello, Kayla.
Welcome to Allers English.
How are you today?
I'm great.
Thank you so much for having me, Lindsay.
Excited to have you here.
I love the topic we're going to get into today.
So let me take a minute to introduce you to our audience.
So guys, today I have Kayla Ehrig on the show.
Kayla Ehrig bought a one-way ticket out of the US in 2017 and has spent most of her time abroad ever since.
As a writer for publications like HubSpot and GoDaddy, she built an online business that now supports both her and her husband as they drift around the world.
Her book, How to Be a Digital Nomad, is now available.
Welcome again, Kayla.
Glad to have you here.
Oh, thanks so much for that intro.
Yeah, an exciting lifestyle, right?
Tell me why you decided to leave the US in 2017.
So you're American, is that correct?
You're from the United States.
Which part of the states are you from?
Pennsylvania.
Okay, tell me what was going through your head when you decided to become a digital nomad?
Or did you just say I'm going to travel and then eventually you became a quote unquote digital nomad.
How did that work?
I was very interested in travel, but I had never really been outside of the US and I didn't speak another language.
Really,
I studied French in high school.
I was not prepared to use that.
I thought, gosh, what am I?
I mean, I didn't feel capable of kind of going out into the world.
I was really scared.
I was 23 and I thought I have all these dreams and ideas of places I want to go, but at this rate I am not going to see those because I get like two weeks off a week a year from work.
And I use that to visit my family because I was living in a different part of the US.
And I was really afraid.
I felt myself falling into the habit of waiting all day for 5 pm, waiting all week for the weekend, all year for time off work.
And I was terrified of that becoming the story of my working life.
So I saw people on Instagram living out of vans and I was totally mystified.
And I learned about this like mysterious group of people digital nomads living these really alternative lifestyles to what I was doing.
And I just thought if they could figure it out, I probably can too.
So I found freelance work and I left my corporate job and I bought a one-way ticket.
And when I thought it might all crash and burn and that's okay, I'm prepared to fail, but I'm not prepared to not try.
Yeah.
I love that Kayla.
That's fantastic.
I mean, if you're going to fail at any point in your life, doing it in your twenties, or especially your early twenties, is the right time to do it.
Right.
And we fail throughout life over and over, as long as we're trying new things, which is good.
I definitely identify with this.
I did something similar in my early 20s taught English in Japan and then kind of bounced around Southeast Asia and South America for a few years but never fully said you know, this is my life.
I'm not going back.
So I'm always interested in kind of the not going back idea and just really assuming that life.
But today Kayla, I want to go into an angle that might apply a little bit more to our audience, to our listeners.
I think that post-pandemic, we all became kind of work from anywhere professionals in a lot of ways.
Not everyone.
It is a privilege to have a job where you can work from anywhere.
But I think post-pandemic, many of us have gone into that.
For example, my partner and I are often working in airports these days.
We're working from our family's homes.
We're working in the car shop where we're waiting for our car to get fixed.
This is different from how it was in the 90s or even the early aughts.
But I'm concerned about how do we maintain trust with our colleagues, especially on meetings, in this work from anywhere environment.
Is that something that you've kind of thought about, Kayla?
As you've been bouncing around, you know your clients, your colleagues.
How do you deal with that?
Oh, I've thought extensively about this.
And my motto is that I want people to forget that I'm not working from my kitchen table, because whenever you're working with other teammates who are remote, or if they're in the office, you have to do more to be seen as working as much as they do.
It's the subconscious bias.
It's called proximity bias.
If people see that so-and-so is working across the office or they're working across town, they feel more connected to those people because of this bias that they're closer to them.
Okay interesting, i guess, now that a lot of companies have gone hybrid, so a lot of people are.
Even if you're in your hometown, where your company is based, you still might be working from home two days a week and in the office three.
So i guess the playing field has been evened out a little bit, right for digital nomads and professionals, where everyone needs to work on that proximity bias.
But what's at stake here, kayla?
Before we go into your three tips on how to maintain trust if we are working from anywhere, What is at stake when it comes to trust with your coworkers and your clients?
Oh, so much of that's the kind of the glue that holds those relationships together.
It's not the big stuff.
If you always deliver assignments on time and you kind of keep checking your boxes, that doesn't mean that people are going to feel like you're still maybe working as much.
They might have this idea, especially if you're working somewhere else. somewhere more exotic somewhere let's say more desirable they people are going to the natural tendency to think oh they're on vacation all the time and isn't that nice I wish I was on vacation all the time too right where where have you just so we get a sense we can picture your life and kind of where you're coming from where have you what are some of the craziest places that you have worked from logged on and had a zoom meeting with a client or a colleague what would you say Oh, the weirdest was next to my best friend as she gave birth.
Well, she wasn't.
She had an epidural.
We had like 15 hours of downtime.
But I did some work.
Yeah, that was an experience.
Got to watch her become a mother to twins.
That's something I could have never said yes to if I had been location dependent.
I was so grateful.
But yeah, also all over Europe.
Yeah, a number of different countries.
It's been all over.
All over.
Yeah.
And do you typically find a co-working space to kind of settle down in?
Or is it more of a cafe, coffee shop type deal or something else?
Where's your go to spot if you need to have a day of meetings?
Oh, a cafe is worst case.
That's my worst nightmare because the Wi-Fi is so dependent on how many other people are inside the cafe.
It's never a guarantee that it'll be as fast as it was the day before.
I like to work from my Airbnb.
I find that I save money by bundling those needs.
And you do have to make sure that you get an Airbnb with a workstation, but it's more predictable, I find.
And there are some funny horror stories with coworking.
I interviewed a lot of digital nomads for my book.
So I heard hilarious stories of like an Airbnb that just so happened to not mention that it didn't have air conditioning whenever it was in the tropics and people were like suffocating inside.
It was so hot or an Airbnb that flooded during a rain.
That's just unfortunate or sorry, a coworking station that flooded during like some bad rain.
It's funny how you kind of don't know, like I would say, never pay for coworking upfront until you like do like a week like a day trial before you pay.
Got it.
Got it.
Got it.
This is fascinating.
This is giving us a glimpse into a whole other life.
And again, I think our listeners are maybe touching parts of this life with the work from anywhere kind of lifestyle.
Now, just one other question before we get into your three tips on how to maintain trust.
Would you say that in terms of the way you're coworkers and clients think of your lifestyle, right?
Like moving around, logging on from anywhere.
Is there a generational difference there between what people of similar age 20s, 30s might look at it versus 40s 50s, 60s?
Is there a difference there?
I find that a bigger difference more than age is lifestyle.
So if someone has small kids or kids at all that are at home, even if they're my age I'm 30 now they think gosh, that's like wild.
I can't imagine having to move around.
But if there are people who are in their 50s 60s, who don't have kids, who have been traveling extensively, I find that that's kind of a bigger differentiator.
And the first digital nomad started in 1983.
So I always remind people like this lifestyle is not new.
And there's people that have touched like for decades, like, you know, people who have done this.
Oh, yeah.
I have friends who have done that.
I mean, I was in Southeast Asia in 2006 and I saw people on their laptops, right?
In the cafes, drinking juice on the street, that kind of thing.
So tell me, let's get into the tips today Kayla, for our listeners who may be engaging in a little bit of this kind of moving the laptop around, taking the laptop with us.
Maybe we go to the airport early for a flight to get away for the weekend and we still have that Friday 3 pm meeting.
We need to log on from the airport.
What are three things let's start with number one that we can do to make sure our colleagues trust us, because trust is everything right.
Yeah.
Impeccable communication needs to start right away, before you even go remote, especially if you want to go remote and you haven't transitioned yet.
You have to lay a foundation of really good communication, maybe more than what you're doing now, like respond to every email within 24 hours maybe not on the weekend but normally and uh, just reply to emails to confirm that you were, you received things, and say thanks.
Those little things, those kind of niceties can fall by the wayside very easily and make people feel like they never hear back from you anymore or they never hear how things are ended up going.
There's this like feeling that people send things to you and then they it kind of disappears.
That is super interesting.
So it's almost like we have to overcompensate a little bit when it comes to being in touch via email.
Because I would imagine that if we are, you know we're working with a colleague let's say we're at the airport, we're getting ready for a Friday afternoon away and we happen to be logging on, or we happen to receive an email and we don't reply, and that colleague is more in their office and tends to work from the workplace they may attribute the fact that we didn't reply to our lifestyle and so we need to kind of overdo it a little bit in terms of communication.
Is that what you mean Absolutely?
I interviewed people who went through this, where they had their jobs impacted someone who was laid off because a project fell apart and it was attributed to.
Well, you weren't here.
Interesting.
That's an extreme example.
I only found one person and there were other issues, but you just have to make up for the fact that people think that you're off running around because you're not.
You're still doing your work.
Yes, 100%.
You're just logging on from anywhere.
I love it.
Okay, so that is the first thing.
Impeccable communication, especially when it comes to acknowledging that you received an email.
Maybe things you wouldn't normally do, correct?
Absolutely.
Okay, what would be number two then, Kayla?
What do you think?
Work proactively.
Because if you are working from anywhere, there will 100, without a doubt.
If you work long enough remotely, there will be a day when the Wi-Fi is out.
Mm-hmm.
It doesn't matter what the problem is or there's a tech issue and it's going to happen.
It's inevitable.
You have to be ahead of schedule or you will end up missing deadlines.
I always say that the due date is late.
You cannot let something get down to the last day because you just have no idea what's going to happen.
You could wake up in your Airbnb, the power's out.
We've had this all happen to us at home.
Of course, it's going to happen whenever you're in this wildly more dynamic environment.
Yeah.
Do you do anything to prevent that?
Do you carry a Wi-Fi hotspot that you could rely on in case it goes out?
Is there anything you have in terms of tools just in case?
No.
The Wi-Fi has gone out on me so many times.
I mean, I always go somewhere else.
That is a day I would go to a cafe.
Or even getting sick.
I got food poisoning.
I had a big deadline for HubSpot.
And I got really bad food poisoning a couple months ago.
And I was so sick.
And I was so glad that I was a day ahead of schedule.
Because, I mean, we've all been there.
Where you're like, I think I'm going to die.
And then you're not.
You're fine.
But in that moment, you can't work at your laptop for eight hours, but you can't right exactly, and that's amazing.
It sounds like you.
You work for some fantastic companies hubspot, godaddy.
These are top-notch companies that you don't want to lose that opportunity, right?
Of course you need to maintain those reports and relationships.
I love it um okay well, so this is important right, be proactive.
And, of course, even again, this comes back to the rational or non-rational mind when it comes to our co-workers looking at our lifestyle.
Hey, the Wi-Fi could easily go out in the office as well, right?
And that is a fact.
And maybe that's not necessarily thought about when your Wi-Fi goes out and you're at the airport or you're somewhere else at a cafe in Disneyland or something.
I love it.
I love it.
What would be number three for your tip, Kayla?
Tip three is don't postpone small tasks.
If something takes less than 25 minutes, just do it now.
Because whenever you're moving around, it is very easy for tasks to fall through the cracks.
Do you use any kind of task management system like monday.com or Asana?
How do you manage your tasks?
I use spreadsheets to track everything reoccurring that I do and all my processes for ongoing projects.
I use GoodNotes and Notion and my husband uses Trello.
We've kind of tried them all.
It's all about what works for you and what you can commit to, because a lot of people start things and then forget it's just going to lead to.
It's going to lead to problems as well.
Interesting.
So when you're working from anywhere, do you carve out specific time for deeper work then?
You're saying, you know, reply to small things quickly, but that could take up an entire day.
How do you carve out that time for deeper work when you're bouncing around?
How does that work typically?
I plan out my weeks.
That's my flow that works best.
I decide what I need done in a week.
And if the weather's great and I want to be out doing things, I will postpone all of it until the weekend and I will cram it all in and do, except never deadlines but other work.
I just, I shift my time around to suit what I'm excited about doing that day.
You know, sometimes like it's a gorgeous day and you just can't bring yourself to get ahead on a project, but I always start the morning with some work tasks.
So the bare minimum is always done and there's no link or in communication that needs attending to.
Nice, I love it.
And so one other question I have, so we've gone through your three tips, right?
Be impeccably good at communicating.
That is a great word for our listeners here today.
Impeccable communication, just over the top, especially amazing guys.
Be a great communicator.
Work proactively.
Let people know that maybe that you are working from different places and that someday the wifi will be out.
So you work ahead, you deliver early.
Then don't postpone small tasks.
Get them done because they can fall through the cracks.
I did have one other question for you, kayla do you leave your camera on when you're on meetings, when you're in different places?
Let's say, for example, this friday i'm working from, i'm going skiing on thursday and i'm working from a like an apartment on friday in steamboat, colorado.
So would you suggest leaving a camera on if i'm meeting with a client or using a background?
So we're kind of, we could be anywhere essentially.
What is your philosophy there?
I am upfront about what I'm doing and where I am.
So I just always leave the camera on and it doesn't bother me.
I do know some people that prefer to have a backdrop.
I think, as long as you're being honest, there are some people who lie to their employers about where they work.
Those people are called stealth workers.
Not good.
And yeah, there can be fines for the company.
I don't recommend doing that.
You have to be honest.
And so whatever you're comfortable with, though, within that.
Yeah, right.
I think what I said, leave the camera on.
I meant, do you use a background as opposed to like just a natural background?
What you're seeing now?
Yeah, I'm pro camera on most of the time, right?
I think it's strange, personally, when someone is doesn't have the camera on and many people do.
That's awkward, don't you think?
Yes, I prefer to see people.
I think it's also part of that connection.
People need to see your face, see your smile.
Whenever we came on today and I saw your smile, I thought oh, it's so nice to see you after chatting in text.
It's just nice.
It's communication.
100%.
So being honest about where we are, not apologizing.
If your company doesn't, obviously it depends on our companies, right?
Our listeners are all over the world.
Guys, check with your company policy to get a sense of what is normal in your company culture.
But if your company does allow a little bit of this work from anywhere, these three are great tips to follow to make sure your career thrives and you have the lifestyle that you want, which I think is kind of amazing.
Kayla, any final pieces of advice, or piece of advice to close up with, before we let our listeners know where to find your book and your website?
If anyone is listening who's been thinking about trying the digital nomad lifestyle, I would just say just try it.
You don't have to get rid of your apartment or throw your stuff away.
You can try it for a week, a month.
It can be a test run.
You can hate it and then know oh, that wasn't for me, but it's better than leaving a dream unattempted.
Oh my gosh.
Yeah kayla, we don't want to get to the end of our lives and think what if i had tried that?
Right, it sounds like when you started the episode that's what you were kind of describing this fear of you could see yourself in 40 years and 30 years in the same place doing the same things.
I felt that too in my 20s.
So any kind of dream we have, just try it right, just try it and see what happens.
It's better to try it and maybe it doesn't work out, maybe it does, but at least we've given it a try.
That's fantastic, Kayla.
Thank you.
Can you tell us where we could find your book or your website?
Do you have a podcast?
Tell us where we can learn more.
My website is writingfromnowherecom and you can find my book in all the kind of normal book places online Amazon, the big book retailers.
I'm not sure where specific to the countries the listeners are from.
But it's also available in certain bookshops.
You can find it by searching How to Be a Digital Nomad.
Excellent.
And it is available now, correct?
It just came out.
Is that right?
It was just launched, your book?
It came out in most of the world January 3rd.
And it comes out in North America January 30th.
Amazing.
We will check that out.
Thank you so much again for being on the show, Kayla.
And enjoy your work.
It's a great, exciting adventure.
Thank you so much.
Thanks, Lindsay.
Take care.
Bye.
Bye.
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