This is an All Ears English podcast episode 2109.
Fortune 100 speaker Jessica Kriegel on three culture questions that you must ask in a job interview.
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You are in a job interview, and the job seems great.
But how do you know if the culture of the organization is going to be a good fit for you?
Today, workplace culture strategist Dr Jessica Kriegel shows us three key questions that we can ask to glean information on the company's culture.
Listen in today.
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Hello, Jessica.
Welcome to the podcast.
We're excited to have you here today.
How are you?
I'm fantastic.
Thanks for having me.
Great.
Glad to have you on the show.
I know we had a couple of scheduling mishaps, so I'm happy that we are here having a chat today.
I'd like to introduce you to our audience and then we'll get into our topic.
So for our audience, Today, guys, I have Jessica Kriegel.
Is that the right pronunciation of your last name, Kriegel?
Yes, it is.
Yeah, thank you.
So Jessica is a workplace culture strategist.
She's a doctor of leadership and management and a Fortune 100 thought leader and speaker.
She will be the host of the Culture Leaders Podcast, which is coming out in early 2024.
And for 15 plus years, Jessica has been guiding global national Fortune 100 and other organizations on how to create international cultures that power business strategy and accelerate performance.
I love it.
We're glad to have you here, Jessica.
Thanks for having me.
Yeah.
So do you focus?
Sorry, not intent.
I said international cultures.
I meant to say intentional cultures.
I saw it as international, but I guess maybe both.
Is that right?
It is.
Yeah.
I mean it is intentional, and that intentionality is required more than ever in an international culture because, because you have competing cultures, the corporate culture as well as the national culture of the people in different places
Oh my gosh, it's so true.
So I'm excited to kind of really focus in today on this concept of workplace culture.
You know, we hear this a lot.
I read the Harvard Business Review every month and there's a lot about culture and what it means for strategy and business success and also making sure people are happy at work.
How do you define, Jessica, workplace culture?
What would you say?
Very, very simply, culture is the way that people think and act to get results.
That's it.
You hear a lot of definitions out there, including it's the norms, beliefs, behaviors, system.
You know, all of that is just buzzword.
Yes.
The way people think and act to get results is your culture.
Yeah, I think the norms beliefs behaviors, traditions probably comes more from the world of anthropology.
Right.
But when it comes to business, people need to get results at work in one way or the other.
So I like how you define it, because the question becomes more.
What do they do?
What do they think they can do?
What are they able to do?
How much leeway are they given?
And what actually happens?
So why should we pay attention to this when we're interviewing for a job?
Today, I'd like to take the perspective for our listeners.
If they're looking for a new job, why might they want to get a sense, get a glimpse into a culture of a company?
Because not every culture works for every employee and there are many different kinds of cultures that you can work for.
And I wouldn't even say that there's a better culture or a worse culture, because it's really about diversity of environments that are best for the results you're trying to achieve in those environments.
What I can say is I have a personal preference about the kind of culture I like to work in.
I've worked in cultures that don't align with what I want, and it's a lot harder.
It's more stressful.
I can't be as authentic.
It doesn't feel like a fit.
And so when you're interviewing for a job, you want to make sure that it's something you're going to thrive in.
The way that people think and act is the way that you think and act so that you can thrive in that environment.
Otherwise you're going to feel like a fish out of water and eventually you'll leave.
Oh, a hundred percent.
Can you describe an experience of a good culture?
What?
What you defined as a good fit culture for you, for yourself in your past career, a place just You don't have to give us any names of companies, but just kind of what were some of the parameters around that culture?
What was going on?
Yeah, I mean, and this is, again, very personal.
And so let me not confuse the audience by telling them that this is the best.
Sure.
It's just the one that I liked the most.
Yeah.
And it's actually the culture that I'm in right now at Culture Partners.
We're a consulting firm doing culture consulting.
And we have a core belief about the way that we operate, which is putting the team first.
And that looks like the full humanity of the employee is embraced and respected.
And business results are important and they are what we strive to accomplish.
But we know that that cannot happen at the expense of our employees.
So I'll tell you a story, because storytelling is so critical to culture.
To highlight what it looks like.
One time I had hired a vendor to do some work for us that cost multiple thousands of dollars.
And that vendor ended up not working out.
They took off.
They ended up not giving us any services.
We paid them.
We lost the money.
It was a whole disaster, really.
And I called my boss.
I had managed that vendor relationship.
I had selected that vendor.
So it was on me.
And I called my boss and I was like embarrassed and a bit sheepish about it and i said listen, i have bad news.
And he said oh no, what's going on?
I said this vendor took off.
We've lost a few thousand dollars.
I didn't get any results out of the relationship.
And he interrupts me and says jessica, that's not bad news.
I thought your daughter was sick.
That's just business, you know.
In that moment i was like all right, let's have perspective here.
People and our team are the most important thing.
Results are important, but results come and they go in the course of business.
And I feel so cared for that I drive hard towards results because I know that they are caring about me as a whole person.
That's my favorite kind of culture.
I love that story.
And it warms your heart.
I think we're moving into a new era where companies are kind of shifting many of them towards really finally kind of respecting their team and seeing employees as whole people right.
Not just people at work getting results done, but a whole person comes into work, right?
We don't leave ourselves behind. when we come into the workplace.
So that is so good.
And that might be, for a lot of our listeners, what they're looking for, or they might be looking for something different, maybe a place that challenges them and pushes them.
So Jessica, it's all about questions, right?
Asking the right questions in an interview, not something that would feel like an affront to your interviewer or too invasive, but Really good questions where we can glean insights on what the culture might look like.
I would love to know from you, what are three strong questions that we could ask to learn that?
Because otherwise, how do we really learn what the culture is like, right?
Yeah, that's great.
So we have something called the culture equation, and it is a model for intentionally crafting the way people think and act to get results at work.
And the three variables in the culture equation are the three questions I would suggest your listeners ask about, because it's a systematic way of understanding the front, the back, the side, every angle of the organization's way of operating.
So the first element of the culture equation is your purpose, what is the organization's big why?
And i would always ask that.
In fact, when i'm interviewing people, it's the first question i ask them what is your personal why?
Because i want to know what moves this person and if they can accomplish the fulfillment of their purpose in this work right, when they can, they got a lot more meaning and excitement about the job, right?
So first i would say ask what is the organization's purpose?
What's the why?
Yes, I love that.
Yeah, go ahead.
And it's a red flag if they don't know it.
By the way, sometimes a leader won't know it.
That's a red flag.
Run for the hill right okay right right right, right.
Because if, if they don't know it, that might mean that it might be a culture that's driven just by making more money, making more and more and more money, or maybe there's a toxic culture, who knows what you're getting into?
And I like that question because it's not um, it's also going to probably raise our profile as a candidate, right?
Cause we want these questions to increase our chances of getting the job.
If we want it by the time the interview is over, I've always found it kind of scary.
The fact that there's no way of kind of doing a day on the job, like a trial for any job.
And so these, these questions become very, very important.
And I love that question at all.
There's English.
We've spent a lot of time digging into our purpose, which is human connection connection, not perfection.
How to connect through language.
And this is so important for companies to do this, isn't it, Jessica?
Absolutely.
I mean, if you're a business leader right now and you don't know your organization's purpose, I would figure it out fast and then memorize it and make sure everyone on your team knows it.
Because if you're purposeless... you're purposeless, right?
And it's not a good feeling.
And it doesn't drive unity in the team either.
No, for sure.
Okay, so coming back to just the wording of that, can you tell us again exactly how you would ask the question for the language itself?
How would you ask that question, Jessica?
What is the organization's purpose?
And or mission statement, because some companies call it a mission statement too.
Yes, I feel like there can be.
We can glean a lot based on how they respond.
To think people should light up when they share their purpose, even if they're not necessarily the founder of this company.
They should feel that purpose right and they should know that they're working towards it.
They should get excited, don't you think?
Definitely yeah, i would hope, i would hope, certainly.
All right, i love it.
Let's move on to number two.
What would be the second core theme or the question we could ask to glean?
What does this culture look like without having to do like a trial day at work or something like that?
Yeah, So the second element of the culture equation the culture equation is purpose plus strategy is the first part.
So the second element that you want to ask about is the strategy.
You know, what are the strategic anchors of this organization's future?
What big bets have the leadership team made on how we're going to accomplish getting our purpose done right?
That's the, the purpose, is the why, the strategy is the how.
That's really important to know too.
So yeah, the second question i would ask is and what is the strategic plan for how this company is going to win?
What oh, i like that.
What is the strategic plan for how this company is going to win?
Listeners, write that one down.
I love that you used win at the end right, because that can be.
You know, that's a very positive word.
It's a way to interpret growth.
It could mean a lot of things, but it's empowering.
Yeah, i mean a lot of companies might spend Maybe a little too much time thinking about purpose and not putting that down on paper.
How are we actually going to get there?
If you have maybe a leader who's really a dreamer, that's great.
You need a dreamer in the company, but then you need implementers people who are getting that work done and they know exactly what to do.
Isn't that right?
Exactly.
Yep.
That's it.
You want to know the why, but you also want to know the how, because you're going to have an inspiring why and know how, and you're not going to get there.
And if the company crumbles, then there's no job to be had eventually.
Right.
Or just even imagine if we get that job, if our listeners are in that interview, they get that job, they accept that job.
It's going to feel like a lot of inertia because we have big dreams.
We have big visions of where we want to go, but there's no way to get there.
I mean, how is that going to help you build your career to move on to the next job?
It's not.
So both have to be there.
I like it.
What would be the third one then, Jessica, that we need to ask in the interview?
Yes, the third and final variable of the culture equation.
So the culture equation is purpose plus strategy to the culture power, powered by culture.
The culture is the exponent equals results.
Culture is the third question that you should ask about.
And instead of saying, what is the culture like?
Because everyone thinks of something different when they hear the word culture.
Just ask the question about how people think and act.
And what is the way that people think and act to get results here?
Then you start to really dig into the way culture shows up.
And so your purpose is your why, your strategy is your how, and your culture is the way to get results.
I like this is the way that people think and act to get results.
Yeah, i like it because it's it's very.
It's broad right, it's quite vague and so we'll learn a lot immediately based on how that's answered.
Right, what is the gut response that the interviewer gives us?
What we can get a lot of information by asking these bigger questions and just kind of being quiet, letting them talk.
Wouldn't you say yeah yeah absolutely, i love it.
You're going to understand some of the drama.
If there is drama.
You're going to hear the passion.
If there is passion, the emotional experience of being an employee at the company is gonna come out at that point and you intuitively, can pick up on that.
All right, so the key themes here, right, are purpose, strategy, and culture.
These are the things that we need to dig into.
Guys, go back, listen to this episode one more time to write down exactly how to ask those questions.
And bring these up.
I think, as we said, it really raises your profile in the interview.
It shows that you're picky.
You want to work for a company that's going somewhere, that it's going to help you build your career.
That makes you a more valuable candidate.
Absolutely.
I love it.
Thank you for sharing these, Jessica.
I think our listeners might want to know more about your podcast or where they can find you online, so they can dig into this concept of culture more, because it's so important for our careers in the long run.
Yeah, so we have a lot of great giveaways for your listeners.
If they're interested, go to podcastcultureio and they can download some toolkits as well as some research we've done.
As you mentioned, our podcast is going to be coming out in early 2024.
It's called Culture Leaders and it'll be interviews with masters of movements and how they have inspired movement at a broad scale, things that they're passionate about, their purpose, their strategy and their culture for their movements.
And then i have a weekly linkedin newsletter called this week in culture.
If you follow me on linkedin then you'll be able to subscribe to that and it keeps you abreast of what's going on in the world of culture.
Oh, i love it.
Thank you for coming on the show today jessica, to let us know these very specific things that we can do.
We don't have to make it a big guess or a question mark when we accept that job.
Now, what is the culture like?
I don't know.
I hope it's great.
There are very specific things that we can do.
And now we know what they are.
When we go into the interview to see, is this the job we actually want?
I love it.
So good.
Thank you so much.
And we hope to have you on the show again soon, Jessica.
Thank you.
Thanks for having me.
Take care.
Bye.
Bye.
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