This is an All Ears English podcast episode 2093.
Her and I or her and me?
Your grammar questions answered.
Welcome to the All Ears English podcast downloaded more than 200 million times.
Are you feeling stuck with your English?
We'll show you how to become fearless and fluent by focusing on connection, not perfection, with your American host, Aubrey Carter, the IELTS whiz, and Lindsay McMahon, the English adventurer coming to you from Arizona and Colorado, USA.
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How do you know when to use the pronouns she and I versus her and me?
Today, get simple and actionable programmer tips to figure out the difference, so that you can keep the connection.
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B-L-A-C-K-F-R-I-D-A-Y.
Hey, Aubrey, what's shakin'?
Not too much.
How are you today?
Wow, I have been all over the country.
I took a long road trip out here to the East Coast, but now I am right by the ocean and I'm loving it.
I'm loving the breeze.
It's great.
So nice.
Oh, I love that you're able to spend some time by the ocean.
Anyone out there who is listening.
If you live by the ocean or are able To travel to the ocean often, I'm jealous.
And I'm actually going to Rocky Point, so I'll be at the ocean in about a week.
I feel like it just sort of renews your soul.
It renews your soul.
It does.
It's something about the salt air, you know, just the...
The humidity in the air, it's amazing.
It's awesome.
The sound of the waves and just like the smell.
Yes, except for when there's a storm.
It's very scary here when there's a storm.
This is like the place where the weatherman comes with the microphone and he's like it's getting windy.
Right?
Hurricane zones.
Yeah, that's a little scary.
We'll have a question for you, Lindsay, to start us out here.
Let's do it.
What do you think is the most common error made, like English grammar error made by native speakers?
Oh, my gosh, probably has something to do with personal pronouns.
Right, it's hard to know when to use i and when to use me, when to use she, when to use her him he oh audrey, i hope we can clear it up today for our list.
Yes, i agree, i feel like that's the native error that i hear the most and also probably the question i get most from students, likely because they hear natives say both or make the error, so they're not even sure half the time which one they should use.
So we got a question about this today and it's a popular one.
So i think everyone out there listening is going to be excited to get a clarification on this grammar.
Yeah, it's hard right, because we often say you know, listen to native english.
We, we believe that you need to listen to native english.
That is the way you learn to become fluent.
But sometimes yeah, natives do bend the rules or maybe they don't know the rules.
So we're going to clear it up, but first guys, go over to allearsenglishcom app.
That is where to find the app aubry, why should we use the app?
Yes, it's the best way to learn new vocabulary while listening to this episode, because we make it really easy.
We select vocabulary that is new and interesting.
If you click on it, you see the definition and example sentence.
You can add it to your personal power vocabulary list so that you can practice it, incorporate it into your vocabulary and then mark it, learn to check it off, remove it when it's ready.
So it's such a great way to organize your vocabulary list.
Totally.
And I think just the simple fact of having that transcript right there as they're listening, our listeners love that fact.
Just that simple feature, guys.
Imagine listening now and seeing a transcript right on your screen, right in front of you.
Amazing.
Yes, it makes it so easy.
I love it.
So yes, go check out the app, guys.
AllEarsEnglish.com app.
APP, we have it for both iOS and Android.
You got it.
All right, let's get into Asami's question today.
Yeah, so just to remind you guys, or if you missed the episode, Asami had a really great question that we divided in two.
So we answered the first part of her question in episode 2085.
You could scroll up for that one.
It was all about pronoun order and what it has to do with being polite.
So if you missed that one, it's called How English Grammar and Politeness Go Hand in Hand.
Be sure to scroll up, check it out and make sure you're following the podcast so that you don't miss these amazing episodes.
Interesting.
Okay, so should I go ahead and read Asami's question then?
Yeah, this is the second part of her question.
Go ahead.
Okay, when it comes to she, i often hear jessica saying her and i do.
You say her instead of she and him instead of he as subject.
Like you, her and i are going to see a movie.
Does that sound right to you?
It would be great if you could clarify that.
Asami yes, oh tricky.
The short answer is both can be correct.
It all depends on the sentence, right?
It depends on if the pronoun you're using is the subject of the sentence or if it's an object right.
If it's a subject, we use hi, I, I. And if it's a hi, use her, right?
Yeah, I, me, me, object is me.
So it's a little tricky because it's like you've said, Lindsay, nobody wants to diagram sentences.
But often, unless we actually, you know, really analyze the sentence and figure out if pronoun is the subject or the object, we won't be sure which to use.
And a lot of native English speakers aren't going to bother doing that.
So we hear a lot of errors with this.
Yeah.
And I love how when we do grammar episodes with you, Aubrey, you bring us pro tips.
We love our pro tips.
So do we have two pro tips today?
This really helps our listeners to simplify things.
Yes, absolutely.
Right.
So first, subject pronouns are usually at the beginning of sentences, right?
So I, of course, she, he, they.
Most often, you don't have to diagram the sentence.
You can just know if this is at the beginning of the sentence.
This is what I'm choosing these pronouns.
All you need to know is which are the subject pronouns.
I, she, he, they.
Okay, so for example, we have this example here.
She and I went to the movies, yeah?
Exactly.
So you're going to always choose she there and I there, because it's at the beginning of the sentence.
And then our second pro tip is about object pronouns.
They're usually at the end of sentences.
And this is me, her, him, them.
If the pronoun is coming toward the end of a sentence almost always.
This is what you're going to choose.
Okay.
So what's the example there with that one?
So, for example, he came to the movies with her and me.
And the native mistake.
That almost might sound odd to some of you, because you'll hear native mistakes so often.
Native speakers will often say her and I here.
He came to the movies with her and I. Okay.
It's okay because it's a regional dialect thing, right?
Most native speakers.
If they're saying this incorrectly, it's because everyone where they live also says this incorrectly.
It's maybe a mistake more often in the United States.
British speakers or in other countries, their ears might be burning when they hear these mistakes.
They're pretty common in the United States.
Okay.
So, yeah, guys, I mean, we make mistakes sometimes on our show, right, Aubrey?
It happens, right?
Native speakers make mistakes when they speak.
That is okay.
We're always looking for connection, right?
Right.
No one can be perfect, but we're going to set the record straight today.
Yeah.
And a lot of that comes from we we speak the way other people around us speak almost always.
So we're not gonna get into the exceptions today.
There are a couple exceptions to this pro tip here, and that's where we hear the mistakes the most often.
And so guys definitely hit follow, because we will share in an upcoming episode some of the exceptions to this rule.
Unfortunately it doesn't always work because it is about some complicated grammar, about like what's the direct object and is there an implied subject right?
So here's a quick example.
If I wanted to say, she is taller than me.
Does that sound right to you, Lindsay?
She is taller than me.
She is taller than me.
It sounds right, but I don't think it's right.
It's not right, but it sounds right because that's what everyone in the United States most people where I'm from that's what they say.
Because there's an implied subject, it actually means she is taller than I am.
I am, yes.
It should be she is taller than I. So this is where it's an exception to that rule.
So be sure to follow.
We'll get into that in the future.
But right now we're going to share where this pro tip almost always will work for you.
And it'll help make sure that your grammar is correct, especially when it's really important, right?
Job interviews, at work, at meetings, when you want to be using correct grammar.
And there are certain mistakes that you could get away with, right?
Yeah, literally I don't see.
I don't hear anyone say she is taller than I, even though it's correct right.
I, I still won't.
I know it's correct.
And I still say she is taller than me because everyone where I live, that's what they say.
And they would look at me funny if I said she is taller than I. But you know what?
Maybe we mentioned this or are going to mention this.
A good hint is just probably continuing what you would say, right?
Like she's taller than I am.
That makes sense.
She is taller than me, then me is.
No no exactly, my ears are burning now too.
Exactly, it's that implied object right, and the implied subject.
Just keep going with the implied subject thread and you will know.
But i like your pro tips, aubrey.
What else do we need to know here?
Yeah so, first of all, keep that in mind that sometimes um, you're going to hear this mistake, you're going to hear americans especially, make this mistake, And you need to know in advance, like what are you going to do if you hear someone use incorrect grammar?
We talk about this sometimes, like, it's not always the best idea to correct someone.
I hear this mistake all day long.
Do I correct people?
Absolutely not.
Because that would break the connection and make them feel silly.
They might not realize, or they might realize and they're using what they hear other people say anyway.
And it's just always awkward.
It's always awkward if you correct someone's grammar.
Oh, I would argue, especially with this kind of mistake.
That's just so tacky and so annoying.
Maybe you could correct something like if someone uses a vocabulary word and you think huh, I haven't heard it used that way that word.
And then you go into it together like an exploration and connection moment.
Coming more from curiosity than correction.
Yes, yes, exactly.
Okay, so the next thing we want to talk about is You may have heard the tip that if you remove all but one pronoun and see if the sentence still makes sense, that's the way to do this.
First of all, this kind of gets into what we were saying, where you're almost having to diagram sentences, having to stop, remove the other pronouns, figure it out.
And it doesn't always work.
So let's show kind of some examples.
So sometimes it works like, for example, she and I went to the movies.
If you remove she, the other pronoun there, it still makes sense.
I went to the movies.
Yeah, this is what I learned in school too.
Yeah, you're right.
I learned this in school.
Drop that other pronoun.
He came to the movies with her and me.
So you would drop, what would you drop here?
Me or her, either one.
You either have he came to the movies with her or me.
He came to the movies with me.
And if you use she there, you'll say he came to the movies with she.
No.
No.
Right?
Because that's your subject pronoun.
So this is where this pro tip is really working because it's at the end here, her.
When it's at the beginning, she.
And you can remove the other ones and it makes sense.
I like it.
I like it.
This is what I learned in school too.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
There's the problem.
Where can it be confusing?
What's the problem with this method?
It can be confusing if there's an irregular verb, because you would have to change the verb to make it make sense.
So for example, if your sentence is, you, her, and I are going to see a movie.
Then if you remove you and her, what do you have left?
You... I are going to see a movie.
That doesn't make sense.
So then you might be like, or if you remove I, right?
Then we have you...
Her, her, her are going to see a movie.
Wait, no, this doesn't make sense, right?
Doesn't make sense.
Okay.
So we just need to remember to change the verb for a single subject, right?
And it wouldn't be I are because to be is a regular verb.
It would be I am.
But that gets a little trickier, where you're diagramming sentences and you're thinking okay, let's see.
So I switch the verb for I. Oh, now it makes sense.
Instead, a very quick, easy pro tip is to think about okay At the beginning of a sentence.
Subject pronouns.
At the end of a sentence, object pronouns.
Love that pro tip.
Love it.
So good.
That's what allows us because, as you started talking about diagramming sentences and you're dropping pronouns,
Now we're losing the connection.
Right.
We always say that we're dropping eye contact because we're thinking we're wasting time.
Let me remove those other subjects.
OK, got it right now.
I can say something.
No, it doesn't work.
It doesn't work in the real world.
And we are trying to teach you guys English for the real world.
That's the only thing we care about.
We honestly don't care that much about grammar classes, about academic books and, you know, rules.
We care about human connection.
If you care about that, too, this is the right show for you.
So that's why I love your pro tips, Aubrey.
That's why I love your pro tips.
Yes.
Okay.
What else do we need to know?
It looks like there are some exceptions though.
Yeah.
We talked about this for a second that there are some exceptions a couple and we are going to spend a whole episode on that.
So it doesn't get too hurting your brain.
It's a little tricky, right?
So be sure to follow and we'll go into those exceptions.
If you're really wanting a full review, understanding of this grammar and how to make sure it works every time.
Because in general, this rule works, right?
Subject pronoun beginning, object pronoun at the end.
But there are a couple of exceptions.
Yeah.
Guys, hit follow on this show to make sure you don't miss that one.
Okay.
Then in that case, we're going to go into the role play.
Exactly.
At this role play, you and I just spent a day at the lake on a boat.
That sounds amazing.
Maybe on the ocean where you are.
All right.
Here we go.
All right, do i need to reimburse for the boat?
You and kim reserved it right.
Did you already pay in full?
Oh yeah, she and i split it, so we'll figure out whether you need to venmo her or me.
Awesome, thanks for doing that.
This was such a fun day.
Was it kim's idea?
No actually, mark and matt started planning it and then told her and me about it and then we helped out.
Nice, this was a little bit of a tricky role play to write, because i'm realizing in day-to-day conversation we so rarely pull out the individual pronouns.
When we're listing people, just say we or they, or us because, or us, because usually the people we're talking about it's known, right.
So i'm like okay, i have to write this.
So we're asking about specific people and so that it makes sense to say, like her and me yeah, you know what that's.
That's what i couldn't quite put my finger on as we were doing.
This episode is confusing.
Natives make mistakes, but i think it's because we don't really use this very much.
We don't do the double pronoun thing or the triple pronoun.
It's just too wordy.
It's us or it's we.
We went here, he went there with us instead of with yeah, that's simplify whenever possible.
We make it as easy as possible, so that's yeah.
I think you're right.
That's why there are mistakes here more often too, because we don't use it that often.
Yeah, all of these.
It would feel more natural for you to say and then told us about it, or we did this right, but there are sometimes this does happen where we need to clarify who.
Who are you reimbursing?
Whose idea was this?
And then we do split out the pronouns like this right okay, let's go through what we said real quick just to reinforce our pro tips yeah, yeah.
So I first was asking who I need to reimburse I.
Who do I need to Venmo here?
Who do I need to pay back?
So then I said you and Kim reserved the boat right.
And So then you said yeah, she and I split it.
And so because this is at the beginning of the sentence, these are subject pronouns.
We're not saying her, not saying me, right?
She and I split it.
And then in line with your second pro tip, the pronouns are at the very end, right?
And so we're putting them at the end.
So her or me, right?
Yeah.
So these are object pronouns because they come at the end of the sentence.
Figure out whether you need to Venmo her or or me, and a callback to that last episode that we pointed you guys to we wouldn't say me or her, we put someone else first to be polite, right?
So we always say her or me, yeah.
And the other piece I mean this is kind of in line with what we touched on.
I think it is what we touched on, but if you want to figure out for sure we did touch on this say we'll figure out whether you need to Venmo her and then repeat it we'll figure out whether you need to Venmo me, right?
You're saying the whole sentence again to make sure both fit.
But again, who has time and it doesn't always work anyway, at least you have to.
If it's an irregular verb you have to think about.
Okay wait, do i need to change the verb for this pronoun?
Better just to stick with this very quick pro tip love it.
Anything else we want to go through here.
Did we get it yeah?
And then just that very last sentence where i'm asking like oh, whose idea was this?
You know, was it kim's idea?
He said oh, mark and matt sort of planning it, and then told her and me about it.
And this is tricky where you maybe could say like told us about it.
But sometimes it's unclear.
What do you mean?
Us told me and someone else, you and i, right.
So then we'll split it out to make sure we're clear.
You're saying told her and me, because it's at the end of the sentence.
Object pronouns oh, my gosh, this is very this is grammar heavy today, aubry.
And now I think you guys can understand why native English speakers do make so many mistakes because it is a little complicated.
There are exceptions, right?
And because we hear other native speakers make the same mistakes so often.
Sometimes we're intentionally making that mistake to not make other people feel foolish or to not.
You're going to hear the mistakes on TV.
You're going to hear it all over the place.
It's like with subjunctive, right?
We hear mistakes.
We make mistakes because the people around us are also making those mistakes.
Right, and just to extend that your point here Aubrey, because it's connection you could hear someone saying the her and I making that mistake in a conversation, very casual conversation, recounting a story what'd you do over the weekend?
And then that same person could turn around and go to a job interview and would say it 100 correctly, right?
That's very possible because they know what's correct and they're using colloquial language, right?
That is what is used in their regional dialect.
So sometimes colloquial isn't just casual.
Sometimes it's actually mistakes depending on who you're around, but strategic mistakes.
That is interesting.
Yeah.
Really interesting.
It is interesting.
So yeah, be sure to follow.
We'll go into some of those exceptions, those colloquial mistakes, like she is taller than me, which is what I'm still going to say.
That because everyone I know says that.
I'm not.
Even after we do the episode.
Intentional mistakes.
All right.
Good stuff, Michelle.
Michelle Aubrey.
Oh my gosh.
That's right.
I know you record a lot with Michelle.
I'm actually really surprised you don't do that more often.
I guess it comes back to connection, right?
Grammar.
We can still find connection through grammar as long as we're focusing on the right things.
Good stuff.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Oh, this is really fun, Lindsay.
I love grammar.
Yeah.
Well, good.
All right.
You have a good day.
I'll talk to you soon.
Awesome.
Bye-bye.
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