This is an All Ears English podcast episode 2064.
How structure and strategies help you speak spontaneously with Matt Abrahams.
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In today's episode I interview Matt Abrahams from the Stanford University Graduate School of Business.
He shows us three ways that we can speak with confidence when we're put on the spot, especially when the stakes are high.
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Hello, Matt.
Welcome to All Ears English.
How are you?
I am doing great.
So excited to be here with you, Lindsay.
Yes, I'm so excited to have you on the show.
So I'm going to start by introducing you to our audience, and then I will pull you in.
We'll have a little conversation here today.
So guys, today on the show, we have author, educator, and coach Matt Abrahams.
Matt is a lecturer in Organizational Behavior at Stanford University's Graduate School of Business, where he teaches classes in strategic communication and effective virtual presenting.
Matt has helped many presenters worldwide deliver their message on the TED stage, in the World Economic Forum and at Nobel Prize presentations.
He's also the host of the podcast, Think Fast, Talk Smart.
Matt, again, welcome to the show.
Really excited to be here with you.
And I love talking with somebody who's as passionate about communication as I am.
It's just so important, right?
What are we if we can't communicate, right?
It is what connects us to other people.
And that's really what helps us live a satisfying life.
So Matt, you have a book coming out.
I believe it's, is it September 26th when your book is coming out?
Yes.
Tell us a little bit for a second about that book.
Yeah, absolutely.
So this will be my second book.
My first book focused on how to help people feel more comfortable and confident, speaking in general, just around anxiety management.
And this new book called Think Faster, Talk Smarter how to speak successfully when you're put on the spot is all about spontaneous speaking.
And if you think about it, Lindsay, most of our communication is spontaneous.
It happens in the moment.
Somebody asks you a question.
Somebody asks you for feedback.
You make a mistake and you have to correct it.
It's all spontaneous.
So I'm really hoping to help people feel more comfortable and confident in those moments of impromptu speaking.
It's so important.
No matter what language we speak, no matter where we come from, these moments really matter.
Matt, I had a chance to read a little bit of your book.
And what struck me is kind of the why of how important this is.
I read Irma's story about how she literally rearranged her entire career and chose to take on one certain career instead of maybe other things, because she was afraid of being put on the spot.
To be honest, my heart kind of broke when I read that.
Yeah so irma was a wonderful woman, an older woman.
She came to me asking for some help.
She was asked to speak and wanted to speak at her daughter's wedding i'm sorry, her granddaughter's wedding and she had a horrific experience.
As a girl in high school and as somebody who used to teach high school and as a current teacher, i cannot believe this happened.
But she said something in her high school class and her teacher said that is the worst I have ever heard anybody say you did that so poorly.
And it just scarred her.
It was horrific.
She chose, as you mentioned, to be a librarian purposefully, so she would never have to get up in front of others at work and present.
And yet she was so passionate and driven to speak at her granddaughter's wedding.
And so we were able to find ways.
She did most of the hard work.
I just was guiding her along the way.
And she gave an amazing toast and was able to very, very clearly and articulately about her granddaughter.
And it was just, the ending was happy, but the experience for her was just really awful.
Yes.
And I'm so glad that we're able to share this story at the beginning of our episode today to inspire our listeners.
Guys, you can get through any anxiety you have around, spontaneous being put on the spot speaking.
It can happen, right?
This is a success story.
And so we're going to go into a little bit of the how.
But I think for our listeners it's kind of double trouble right.
We have the fact that as a human being, it can be very stressful to be put on the spot.
And I would love to have you let us know today, you know three things our listeners can do to get better at this spontaneous speaking, especially in high stakes situations.
Our boss is listening or we're at a wedding where all of our friends and family are there listening to us.
Big groups of people.
So, Matt, are you ready to go into that today?
Absolutely.
Happy to share some ideas and give some guidance.
So first, the experience of many of your listeners who are non-native English speakers my mother taught English as a second language for almost 20 years.
I'm very familiar with the issues and challenges.
And the first thing that I learned mostly from listening to my mother and actually from one of my guests on my podcast, was for non-native speakers, there's a tremendous pressure that we put on ourselves.
And this is people who are not, who are native to English as well.
We put tremendous pressure on ourselves to say it right.
We want to say it right.
And as somebody who's been doing this work Lindsay, for over two decades, there is no right way to speak.
There are better ways and worse ways.
And so one of the ways to reduce the pressure we put on ourselves is to remind ourselves that our goal is to get our ideas across to other people, so they know what we're thinking, how we're feeling.
And there are lots of ways to do that.
So to help reduce the pressure, I recommend a few things.
First, your job as a speaker is to help your audience.
Maybe it's your boss, maybe it's your colleagues, maybe it's your friends, your family.
And if you remind yourself that you're in service of them you're there to help them it takes that pressure off of you.
And when you add to that that there is no right way to communicate, just better in worse ways, it also reduces that pressure.
The guest I had on my show said it's more important, not the goal is not to sound like a native speaker.
The goal is to get your point across.
And if that's the goal, there are lots of things you can do.
You can say it and then tell a story about it to reinforce it.
You can say it and ask a question so you can clarify.
So when we reduce that pressure and remind ourselves that we're there for our audience, it can really help us feel at ease, or more at ease.
I love that idea, this idea of we're in service of our audience.
And that is the end goal.
As soon as we walk out of the room today, we need to make sure our audience gets the message.
That's all that matters because we do get so caught up and so self-conscious as human beings.
At All Ears English, Matt, we coined the term connection, not perfection.
And we bring that onto the show quite a bit.
And I think that really is in line with what you're saying here.
I love connection and not perfection.
And that is so true.
So true.
Communication, as you mentioned, is fundamentally about making common.
That's what the word means, to make common and to connect.
And so that's so important.
Something else that will help people in the moment is when you have to speak.
In the moment, you have two fundamental tasks to deal with what to say and how to say it.
If you know how you're going to say it, then all you have to do is think about what to say in that way.
So I believe a lot in what I call structure, how you structure your messages.
And there are several structures that people can learn.
My favorite is simply three questions.
What?
So what?
And now what?
So imagine, Lindsay, a colleague of yours, a friend of yours asks for feedback.
They say, how do I do in that meeting?
All you have to do is answer the question, what, so what, and now what?
What is your feedback?
Lindsay, you did a great job, but I noticed you spoke very quickly when you were talking about how you were going to implement your idea.
That's the what.
The so what is why is it important?
So Lindsay, when you speak fast, it makes people think you're not as prepared.
And then the now what is my recommendation?
So next time, Lindsay, I'd really like you to slow down and maybe give an example.
So by simply answering what, so what, and now what, i have a structure, a way of communicating what i'm saying.
So all i have to think about is what i put into it.
In many ways, it's like a recipe when you cook.
If you have the recipe, all you need to do is find the right ingredients and you can have a really good meal.
So i'm a big fan of finding structure, being audience centric and focusing on connection, not making sure you say it right, and if you do those things, you're in a much better position to speak confidently and spontaneously.
Yeah, that's fantastic, Matt.
I mean, when we go to prepare, sometimes we can get very jumbled in our minds.
There's so many details that we feel have to be included.
It can become overly complicated.
And so having a three-step system that, by the way, that's very simple and easy to remember.
That is not something fancy, 10 steps.
No, three simple steps.
Then we can kind of force the information into those categories And it probably allows us to eliminate what doesn't need to be included.
Do you think?
Absolutely.
It helps us to be more concise and clear.
And there's an added benefit to what, so what, now what.
Many of us get nervous when we are in these small talk, chit chat, conversational situations.
You can actually just ask those three questions, what, so what, now what, to have a conversation.
So, Lindsay, I could say, what are you doing later on this afternoon?
And why don't we role play this?
Lindsay, what are you doing later on this afternoon?
Okay, let's do it. probably go for a jog later in the park.
Oh, excellent.
And why do you like jogging so much?
Good to stay in shape, Matt.
I got to get out of my chair, away from my computer and get active.
Awesome.
And what would you recommend?
Should I do something like that too?
Absolutely.
100%.
Excellent.
And do you see how we just had a great conversation and all I did is ask you what?
So what?
And now what?
So they're a way for me to get a conversation going.
It's a way of connecting with you.
And it takes a lot of pressure off me.
So it not only helps you package up what you're saying when you respond, but it helps you initiate and move conversations forward.
So I think it takes a lot of pressure off both native and non-native speakers.
Yeah, because I know a lot of our listeners may feel paralyzed if we break it down to just the one-to-one conversation level.
We can be on the spot in those situations too, as you're saying, knowing how to continue that conversation and feeling like a deer caught in headlights.
Where do I go from here?
What if they say this?
I don't know what I'm going to say next.
All of a sudden, we're not in the moment.
We're not even hearing.
So we can't be spontaneous.
So this works so well.
I love it.
I love it.
Well, did we get through all three of your tips here, Matt?
I think we might have.
I think we did, but I'm going to add one to just what you said.
Yeah, please do.
Being present oriented, as you just mentioned, being in that moment listening, is really, really important.
A lot of us get into our heads and we're starting worrying about the future and what might happen.
And if I say this wrong, this will go this way.
The best advice is be in the moment.
Listen attentively, see what needs to be done and that can really help you.
I am a huge fan of improvisation.
And Lindsay, I don't know if you've ever done improv, but one of the primary rules of improv is to do what's needed.
Nothing more, nothing less.
And the only way you know what's needed is if you're actually paying attention in that moment.
We can get so caught up on the future consequences that we're not actually in the moment of connection.
So you actually alluded to that, and I just wanted to highlight that.
So you asked me for three, I think I gave you four, I hope that's okay.
But I think it's the just to kind of sum up what you've said here, Matt.
I think it's the beautiful connection of the structure, bringing together structure and spontaneity.
Because we've got the formula, we've got the three steps, we have structure, we know we have some techniques and some strategies, and those will then allow us to be present and bring out our true nature, our emotions, our knowledge, what we can give to the world right.
That's exactly right.
In fact, you summed it up beautifully.
I often use an analogy to learning to play a sport or a musical instrument.
You do a whole bunch of drills.
You'll dribble around cones or your practice scales.
But what that allows you is in the moment when you're playing the game or playing the music.
You have that experience so you can be spontaneous and do what needs to be done.
But it's a result of practice and structure.
So it sounds weird that we actually prepare for spontaneity, but that's exactly what we do.
It makes total sense, a hundred percent.
So guys, be inspired by matt's message today.
It is possible to become better at speaking spontaneously.
It involves preparation And being present.
Any final message for our audience today, Matt?
Anything you want to leave our listeners with?
Well, sure.
So first is learning to be a better communicator.
Being a native speaker or not takes time.
It takes three things.
Repetition, reflection, and feedback.
You have to practice.
Get those repetitions in.
You have to reflect what worked, what didn't work.
You know there's that definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results.
That's how many of us think about our communication.
We don't ever think, oh, what worked, what didn't, so I can change.
And then finally, you need to get feedback, coaches, teachers, friends.
That's how we learn to get better.
So if you take all three of those and really take them to heart, that's how you're going to improve your communication.
Oh, I love it.
So good, Matt.
So can you remind our listeners again where they can find your new book that will be coming out on September 26th?
If we want to take a deeper dive into some of these structures, these ideas, these strategies.
Where can we go to find that book?
Where would you say?
Anywhere you buy books, Amazon, Barnes & Noble, wherever you go, look for the book, Think Faster, Talk Smarter, How to Speak Successfully When You're Put on the Spot, And I encourage all of your listeners to consider listening to Think Fast, Talk Smart, the podcast.
It's all about communication.
It complements so nicely the wonderful work, Lindsay, you and your team do.
Thank you for the opportunity.
All right, perfect.
So guys go ahead, open your search bar right here, wherever you're listening Apple Podcasts, Spotify and type in Think Fast, Talk Smart.
Think Faster, Talk Smarter.
Is that what it is?
That's the name of the book.
And then the podcast is actually Think Fast, Talk Smart.
I know they're similar.
That's on purpose.
All right, guys.
So go ahead and find that podcast and hit follow right now, because I know this podcast will absolutely help you.
Thank you so much, Matt, for coming on the show.
It's been a pleasure chatting with you today.
Thank you, Lindsay.
And thank you for the good work you do.
Thank you.
Take care.
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