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Hey everyone, it's Guy here.
So our team is just getting back from our holiday break, so this week we've got a great episode from the archives.
Our Advice Line conversation with Laura Merican of Larrabar will be back with fresh Advice Line episodes starting next week.
And I'll be joined by some pretty incredible guests like Jojebia, co -founder of Airbnb, and Jack Conti, who co -founded Patreon.
So stay tuned. And thank you to all of you who called in so far.
I cannot wait to talk through more of your business challenges in the new year, and I'm looking forward to hearing your ideas, so enjoy the show.
Hello and welcome to the Advice Line on How I Built This Lab.
I'm Guy Roz. This is the place where we help try to solve your business challenges.
Each week I'm joined by a legendary founder, a former guest on the show who will help me try to help you.
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Alright, let's get to it.
Joining me this week is Laura Merican, the founder of Lara Bar.
Laura, welcome back to the show.
Thanks for having me, Guy.
It's wonderful to be back.
So great. I don't think I've seen you since we took a run in Denver a couple years ago before the pandemic.
That's hard to believe that it's been that long, four years.
I know, it's been a long time because it's a period where I've always seen you all the time.
You're coming to our summits and stuff anyway.
It's great to have you back on the show.
You were first on the show way back in 2018.
And back then you, of course, told the story of how you created this incredible brand, Lara Bar.
And of course, if anyone listening hasn't heard that episode, just go back in our podcast feed and listen to it.
It is such a great episode.
We'll put a link in the podcast description as well.
But basically, back in 2000, you were, in your early 30s, recently divorced, unemployed, not at a great place in life, as you described it.
And you started experimenting with your own energy bar for hikes, basically taking unsweetened fruit and nuts and just grinding them up in your Cuisinart and shaping them into bars.
I did. I mean, I did not plan on starting a business.
I was a passionate natural food person, always looking for great alternatives.
And I found myself on a hike one day eating a trail mix.
And this light bulb went off for me.
And I just knew it intuitively that I needed to follow my idea.
And within just a couple of years, you were selling millions of these Lara Bars.
And eventually, of course, you sold the brand to General Mills.
And unlike a lot of founders who kind of sell their companies and then take off, you stayed on to help the team at General Mills for quite a while to continue to grow the brand.
Before we bring our callers, I want to ask you about your experience, kind of dig a little deeper.
I remember you talked about one of the first things you did when you were starting the brand, was you got a job at Whole Foods.
You basically just got a job as a cashier and stock clerk for the paycheck in part, but also to learn about the natural food business, to get a ground view of how they operate, which I thought was so, so smart.
And a lot of entrepreneurs have side hustles.
I mean, what kind of advice do you have for people who are sort of in that phase where they're starting a business and they're not sure whether they should be doing another job or to leave that job, when to leave that job, if to lead that job?
You know, there isn't one right way to do this.
For me, I realized that I knew very little about the actual business.
I knew that I was kind of my own core consumer, but I also, I guess the way I would liken it is I wanted to put my fantasy into a reality check.
And so by getting into the business at Whole Foods, I looked at it as a paid internship and a way to get a leg in and learn directly without wasting time asking other people's opinions.
I immersed myself in that environment.
So I would say to people, learn as much as you can, put yourself in situations and really open yourself up to you don't know anything because you really don't know anything until you get into it.
Yeah, well, Laura, I'm super, super excited that you're on to help me.
Um, hopefully we can give some good advice here.
Um, let's, let's go ahead and take our first caller.
Um, and let's, let's have our caller introduce themselves.
Tell us your name, where you're calling from and, uh, just a little bit about your business.
Hello, I am Alison rep.
I am one of three co -founders of a body care company called Joy Breeders in Denver, Colorado, and we are on a mission to keep people moisturized without any toxins while inspiring them to rewild themselves.
Amazing. You're in Denver, so not too far from where Laura started Laura bars.
Um, and, um, tell me about, so it's called Joy Breeders.
Joy Breeders. And it is a skincare brand.
Tell me, um, a little bit about how, how it works, like what makes it unique or different?
Yeah. Well, you know, it's, um, I made it because my, my boyfriend has a rare skin condition and I was really tired of being in the stores and checking ingredients in these, of these clean brands and seeing that there were still toxins.
And so what's different is that this truly is only five or seven, depending on the scent, uh, pure ingredients.
And how, and so when did you start making, when did you start selling it?
I started making it about three and a half years ago.
Um, and then I gave it out to people for Christmas one year and everybody was like, what is this?
I have to buy this.
And, um, I never thought I'd be starting a body gear company, but we launched it, um, after listening to everybody in June of 2023.
So just a little over a year ago.
And, and where do you guys, um, and how many products do you have, how many different, um, excuse do you have?
Yeah, uh, right now we have three different ones.
We have two different versions of moist, which is our body, um, moisturizer.
And then we have one called pouty mouth, which is a lip balm.
Got it. And where, where do you guys mainly sell your products?
Right now we are in boutiques.
We just got into a couple of grocery stores in Colorado.
Uh, we're in a couple stores in Hawaii.
Um, we are in some boutique motels and direct to consumer as well.
Nice. And what's your, um, what's your question for us today?
My question is how can we scale in each product like ours while keeping the humor and the authenticity that define our brand as we move into these larger markets, all right, we'll get, we'll get to your question in a moment.
Um, Laura, I want to bring you in.
First of all, do you have any questions for Alison?
Well, first of all, I had a very similar issue.
I had this exact same question when I started out.
Um, so my, my question to you is, um, I've looked up your brand online and it looks really, really fun.
It has a nice vibe.
And so far as you're selling to your consumers in these stores and online, what kind of feedback are people giving you about your product?
What do they like about it?
What is it doing for them?
Yeah, so we get so much feedback that was so unexpected.
I'm a licensed psychotherapist.
I never thought I'd be helping people in this way, but it's such an honor.
But people say, you know, I've had dry, cracked skin for my whole life and nothing's ever worked.
I've tried 50 products and this is the first thing that has worked for me.
Um, they love the clean ingredients.
They love that it sinks into your skin.
And even though it's oil based and Shea butter based, it doesn't stay oily, but the moisture locks in.
So that's the biggest I could go on and on, but I'll zip my lips now.
Well, well, I hear you saying that you want to market it authentically and have that humor and authenticity.
Like what is it that people love about that aspect of it as well?
Yeah. So one of my co -founders, uh, is my boyfriend who I made it for.
And the other one is my best friend and we are the joy breeders.
And we were dubbed that name because people would see us posting things online on our social media and they would come to us and say, you being your authentic selves allows me to be my authentic self.
And there's just no higher honor than hearing that.
Um, and so that is, that is our bigger mission and that's something that we want to do just through being the face of our company, right?
Like showing modeling being your authentic self.
Well, that's, that's a, that's a great, um, way to lead what you're about being your authentic self.
I just, I heard like tag lines in what you just said.
Um, that authenticity is kind of a lead like fun, sexy and authentic, right?
Yeah, we just like to play our way through lives.
Like we're always doing wild, crazy, funny things.
You know, playful is one of our biggest values.
Um, Allison, one of the things that, I mean, the question you ask is like, how can we, um, maintain our authenticity while we're, while we're scaling?
And I guess, I guess what I would just kind of push back on that question is, is, is to ask you whether that really is a problem.
I mean, I'm, I'm not sure this is a, it sounds to me more like a problem looking for a solution or a solution for a problem.
You know, I don't, I would say don't create a problem where one doesn't exist, right?
Like to me, I think you want to focus on scale focus or focus on sustainability.
One or the other, or both if you can, but I mean, the, the, you know, uh, the, the authenticity side, first of all, it's a word that I, I have trouble with, uh, to be honest, because I think that it's, it's, it's really overused.
It's a buzzword for sure.
It's massively overused.
And I think that, that the more it's used, the less actually authentic something or someone is.
And you often see this on social media where people say, be your most authentic self.
And I think to myself, you're standing in front of a camera and you are acting.
And so how are you actually authentic?
So I guess to me, authenticity is when you don't actually need to, or have to really worry about that word.
I mean, you've got a product, you've got a story.
You love it. Your friends love it.
So that's authentic.
Now the question is to me, how do you focus on growing the product?
How do you focus on getting it out there?
Um, so tell me a little bit about what you're doing.
Are you working with social media influencers?
Are you, um, demoing the product?
Tell me a little bit about how you're, you're getting the word out.
Yeah, we are demoing the product constantly, especially at these new grocery stores that we've just been in.
Um, and we are talking with a lot of influencers as well.
We just went to the new Topia now event.
What does that new Topia now is, uh, it used to be expo East.
So it's a CPG expo.
And we got a lot of unexpected attention there.
We had people from big stores coming to us.
Um, you know, we've, we've just been kind of after that expo, just preparing for what those meetings are going to look like, and it sounds like we'll be in more and more stores.
I have a followup question is to Guy's point in terms of as you're going to scale, how have you guys looked at how you see yourself fitting into the market?
Do you see yourself in grocery stores and boutique stores and where, where does your product fit into the category?
I guess is what I'm asking.
Yeah, it's a good question.
And we're kind of figuring some of that out by trial and error, but some of it we also know, um, we are a more luxury product, so we're not going to be in, in just regular grocery stores, probably we're in more of the niche grocery stores like Luckies and the more natural focused grocery stores.
Yeah. I think looking at where do you fit in as you're growing as, as Guy said, you know, you're looking at scaling, but where are you going to scale?
What does that look like?
What is the consumer?
I mean, I'm thinking, do you belong in department stores, right?
Like, like higher end ones like Neiman Marcus or, or, uh, Nordstrom, you know, cause body cares a lot of places and in spas and, and all kinds of stuff.
Yes. Yes. To all those.
See, you just answered the question for me.
I, I still, I, I started falling into this backwards and I still am like you were saying, you're just always figuring things out.
So yes, definitely that is a dream.
And also to be in hotels, we're working with some hotels, not being just given in the rooms, but being in their mini bars, uh, cause people really go after that stuff when they're traveling, especially to dry climates.
Yeah. Um, Guy, do you mind if I circle back to one thing that you were saying about, about the authenticity piece?
I think the fear is not that we're being authentic or not, but that it's not very often that you see a brand where the founders are the, the face of the company, their customer facing.
And it's a big, the story is a big part of it.
And so as we expand, I'm just not wanting to lose that because our bigger mission really is to inspire people to, as I said, rewild themselves.
As we were before we even became joined readers officially, if that makes sense.
So, I mean, so the question, I guess, is the question how, how should we remain the face of the brand or?
Yeah, I don't, I don't know how it works, right?
When you start getting into these bigger stores, they don't know what they expect of you.
I don't know if I'm going to need to stand my ground when we, when we start to talk to maybe talk about maybe selling, you know, Laura, you said that you stayed on for a while.
Um, I just don't want to lose the bigger mission of, of the company as, as we move into that.
I mean, you've only been around for about a year now, right?
I think so. I mean, you've got a ways to go before I just think before you have to worry about that, I think that you have got a lot of work ahead of you.
I think it's, it sounds like it's a great product and you've got interest in the product and there are people who like the product.
And so, I mean, I think this is a conversation or a concern that you, that you might want to really have in like two or three years as you start to see growth and scale.
That's just my, my view.
Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense.
I don't, I don't disagree with you guy.
And also Alison, I, Denver was my incubator place and it's a great way to test things out, see what works.
Does it, does it work being in the grocery stores?
Are you better off in a different spot?
And what, what we did as a company is we used Denver as a testing ground and what worked, we would do other places as we expanded the brand.
Got it. I also think that if you look at, and by the way, there are lots of brands that we've had on the show where the founders are the face of the brand, but then you look at a lot of products that are deeply tied to the founder like Spanx and Sarah Blakely or, or Lara bar, which is literally the name
of the person that is on, on this call with me.
And, and at the end of the day, it's the product.
I mean, very few people bought Spanx because they loved Sarah Blakely.
She's lovable and terrific, but that's not why people bought the product.
They bought it because it was really effective.
So at the end of the day, it doesn't matter whether Alison is interesting or funny or, you know, it, that's great.
You don't, you don't not want to be those things, but it's do you make a good product that people like?
Yeah. Yeah, actually a lot of things just clicked.
So thank you for that.
I think I've been really messaged forward, coming from my psychotherapist background.
And what I hear you saying is if the product is good, then everything else that I've been talking about with, with who we are and what we're trying to inspire just comes along alongside that or a little bit behind it.
I think so. And I think it's great that you went to the trade show and there's some interest in, in, in carrying the product.
I mean, I also think that small boutiques are really effective.
I mean, that's how Sun Bum really began its growth, you know, by going to small boutiques in places like Hawaii.
I think you mentioned you're in Hawaii, right?
So, so Hawaii tends to be a really great place to put these things in because you've got a lot of tourists, they're walking through shops or looking at products, they've got time and they pick things up.
Laura, any, any final words of wisdom for Alison?
I would just use this time to just pay attention to everything going on.
Make sure that the product has, is stable in its packaging and all of that before you get distributed out widely.
Right? Like in my world with food, it was, what's the shelf life, but, but you have the same thing in body care.
And you want to make sure that you're dotting your eyes and crossing your teas with that stuff so that you know that when you go to a bigger retail that wants you, you're like, you're solid on that.
You know what works, what doesn't, and you're still going to learn on the fly.
But this is a great time to really do that research and development.
Yeah, thoroughly. Yeah.
Thank you. Alison Repp, the brand is called Joy Breeders.
Good luck. Thank you so much.
All right. By the way, speaking of skincare routines, I would say in the like the last two years, I have started to do something I never did in my life.
I use like a mineral sunblock on my face every day.
I mean, a friend of mine is a dermatologist, is like, if you're not using that every day, you're basically like exposing yourself to skin damage.
And you're on the West coast now, right?
I know. And so you have to pay attention to that stuff.
I'm out and walking every single day.
You know, I'm in the Bay Area, we're lucky, we get to do that year round.
So I'm all about it.
As I approach the age of 50, I'm all about it.
Wow. That's an exciting milestone for you.
Yeah, it's exciting.
All right, after the break, another caller with another business challenge.
I'm Guy Raz, and we're answering your business questions right here on the Advice Line on how I built this lab.
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Welcome back to the advice line on how I built this lab.
I'm Guy Roz. My guest today is Laura Marikin.
She's the founder of the energy bar brand Lara bar.
So Lara, let's, let's get right into it and take another call.
Can't wait to meet the next caller.
Hello. Welcome to the advice line you are on with me and Laura American welcome.
Please tell us your name, where are you calling from and a little bit about your business?
Hi, my name is Mariano Cuesta based out of Miami, Florida.
The founder of Max Brands, which is the owner of max caffeine gum and max caffeine mints.
We provide an alternative to coffee and energy drinks and also provide the caffeine kick and fix that you would like.
All right. So Mariano, a lot of questions for you.
First of all, how did you, I mean, how did you get into this business?
I don't think you were the inventor of caffeine gum.
I'm sure that versions of this had been around for a while, but how did you get into making this product?
Uh, so it was, it was an afternoon where kind of the light bulb went off.
I was working late and it was about four or five in the afternoon.
And I'm a huge coffee drink.
I used to work in, in finance in New York and coffee was life pretty much.
And this day in particular, I didn't want more coffee, but I was a little bit sleepy and I wanted more caffeine.
And that's kind of where I started going down the rabbit hole of like, okay, what alternatives are there?
And after a lot of research, you're right that there were, there was, uh, already chewing on them.
I'm not the inventor of chewing on a caffeine, but I did realize what was out there wasn't either very good, was very expensive or not effective.
So I thought, you know, Hey, I think we could do something here.
Yeah. I imagine that there's plenty of people who probably want this, right?
Like people have to work late or, and by the way, does it have the same effect?
Let's be honest. Cause when you drink a lot of coffee, you have to go pee or, or something else.
Does this have the same effect?
Guy, I'm so glad you asked that question.
When I started this company, my focus was on people, you know, finance and people that work late.
Uh, and when started going and showing the product off to people, I started to realize this is much bigger.
Uh, you've got the Uber drivers, the truck drivers who appreciated this because they didn't have to go to the bathroom after drinking coffee, educators, uh, athletes, athletes.
I had never even thought of athletes and athletes end up being like a huge segment in this world because they don't want to drink a lot of coffee or an energy drink and then go run a few miles.
Like they don't want that slush in their stomach.
So the world of what this product, um, who it's applicable to and who find a lot of benefit to was a lot bigger than I originally thought.
Um, and that was very eye -opening for me.
Got it. And from what I gather that this was at one time available in, in some stores or I think even in maybe in Walmart, but it's not anymore.
Now it's main, you're mainly selling direct to consumer.
Yeah, absolutely right.
Um, we sell directed consumer.
We, we are in about 50 smaller stores.
Uh, we had a tester run with Walmart, uh, all over the country or just in Florida?
It was all over the country.
Originally it was going to be a hundred stores and ended up being 450.
And so it was quite a ride, learned a lot.
Um, we kind of got some guidance from the buyer in terms of how to package this for the candy aisle, which ended up hurting us just logistically.
Put you in the candy aisle.
Yes, correct. And is that where you want it to be?
Did you want this product to be alongside just regular chewing gum and candy?
Originally we did. Okay.
Um, it was either that or the sports section, but you know, it ended up being a pretty big issue and we're back online.
I am still fighting to get into stores.
I mean, awesome that you had that opportunity.
And, and, and you learned a lot from that, but basically people were confused.
Like, what is this?
Is it a supplement?
But it was in the candy section, a lot of confusion.
Before I, before I get to Laura, what's it, what's the question you have for us?
Right. So it's, it's actually based on what I just talked about just a little bit of background, we, we, since we left Walmart, uh, we've tripled our sales online.
More than tripled our sales online.
We continue to grow the brand.
The category itself is growing.
There's data behind this.
And yet we're having trouble getting our foot in the door with some of these major buyers.
I understand they're inundated, but my question would be that, how, how do you get your foot in this, in these doors?
Yeah. Lower American, a lot to unpack here.
This is a cool, cool idea.
What are your thoughts on this?
Well, first of all, I think it's a very innovative product and I like that you've taken gum and caffeine because it's, it's a very easy to use product for people, right?
Gums everywhere, caffeine is everywhere in the form of, you know, coffee mainly and energy drinks.
And, um, my question to you is where are people going to buy this?
I was thinking as you were talking, where would I go to buy this?
But what are you finding out about the marketplace right now?
It's a great question.
We, we, uh, some of the stores that we're in have put us actually next to energy drinks as well.
Uh, it sells well in those places.
We haven't had many people put in the supplement section.
Um, and then we have had people put it in the candy section.
So in terms of just trying to figure out, you know, where it sells more.
And obviously that's a function also of, is there enough shelf space to put a product like this because you know, energy drinks in that section is very full.
So we've had to find ways around it.
We actually started selling them in like clips so we can hang the bags.
You don't have to move anything.
So Mariano, what is the competitive landscape like?
Cause there have to be other caffeine gum brands out there.
Absolutely. Yes. There's there's a couple other brands, big, big brands.
Um, they've done a great job.
I will say that when I started looking into this stuff, the problem I had was, um, I didn't like, it didn't feel like gum, Oreos, so expensive.
And one of the things we really wanted to do with this gum is we, we, we did put a lot of caffeine into each piece.
We put 125 milligrams of caffeine per piece.
It's more than what I'm seeing from the competitors.
They have like 50 to 60 grams.
Correct. And our goal was like, we want you when you chew this and that you feel it like, like you are ready to go, ready to take on anything that's going on in the day.
Um, and that was our goal.
So, you know, just for the listeners, 125 milligrams of caffeine is equivalent to about a cup and a quarter of coffee.
Uh, so we really wanted that to be a differentiator.
Yeah. You're packing a punch, right?
So that to me is a competitive advantage over what's going on in the marketplace and why somebody would want to bring you in to compete with somebody else.
Correct. Also another, another big thing we have going for us, we're cheaper.
Um, and that was done where we're, that was done absolutely by design.
We, when we saw what the pricing was out there, we were just like, why would anyone pay this much?
Cause at the end of the day, we're going to be compared to chewing gum, right?
So why would anyone pay so much more for chewing gum?
I understand that's caffeine.
There's definitely a value add there.
I don't, um, but to be paying 10, 15 times with normal chewing gum.
I didn't think that was right.
So, um, one of the things we really set out to do was provide a better product with more caffeine at a lower, more affordable price.
You know, one of the things that I think is, is interesting about the opportunity here is that everything that you've talked about, um, you've told us here in this conversation is not reflected in the product when you see it on the shelves, like what you, where you want to start in the storytelling
side of it is with the packaging and with your whole kind of theme on your website says world's strongest caffeine gut, but what does that tell me?
Doesn't tell me anything.
I need to understand all the things you just told me in just a few words.
Right. Right from the get go on the packaging, on the website in your brand Bible that clearly, you know, you haven't put together and you should put together cause it's going to really help you.
I would agree. I had the same issue.
So when I started Lara bar, it was, you know, fruit and nuts and nuts have a lot of fat in them and people would freak out about the fat.
And I would have to figure out.
It is at the time, no one was on that bandwagon guy.
Nobody had educated us.
And so I had to, as a company lead the way and I had to articulate it in a way that it was fun for people and interesting.
And they felt like they knew something.
So as, as Guy was pointing out, like if you want people to pick your product up, you've got to make it compelling.
Why is gum and caffeine compelling?
Right? And then I'm going to go back to you're talking about they want to put you in the candy aisle.
I had the exact same problem.
I remember we were getting into a major retailer and at the time I wasn't clear about where I saw Lara bar and they decided out of nowhere to put it near candy bars, that would have been the kiss of death for us in terms of going straight out of that store because we didn't belong with candy bars.
We were a nutrition bar, a healthier version, kind of indulgent and delicious.
And I really pushed back and we didn't end up going into that retailer, which was a good thing because you have to be in the right spot where people are actually going to find you.
Absolutely. Absolutely critical point here, I think, which is sometimes even when the opportunity seems amazing, you've got to stick to your, your principles and your vision around this product.
Right. Like, this is not candy to me.
I mean, this is something that you would discover at a GNC, right?
Or in the, in the, in the protein powders aisle at Whole Foods.
And where I think you have an opportunity, right?
You've got 125 grams of caffeine.
That's what, 30 grams more than the cup of coffee.
And to me, it's like you could have a tagline on your bag that literally says, you know, rocket fuel for your workout.
You know, I understand you're trying to reach people, Uber drivers and nighttime people and hospital workers, but maybe you, maybe you want to just start by focusing on one of those categories and the other ones may follow naturally.
You know, it's like you, you start with a tribe, Laura started with hikers.
Now at Lara bars consumed by Matt, it's a mass consumption product.
What do you think, Laura?
And you can disagree with me, Laura.
You can tell me that I'm full of it.
You're not full of it.
You have great ideas, guys.
You're a natural entrepreneur.
Um, I, I, I think it's very smart.
Like little test groups, you know, you can test the Uber drivers, you can test the athletes, you can do your own little focus groups and figure out who's using it and why they're using it.
What is it doing for them?
Right, right. If you lead with curiosity, people will tell you a lot.
And I would also say that like people do know what caffeine is, but they don't know, right?
They know they go to say Starbucks to get their coffee or the coffee shop.
But what, what are you offering that's different than that?
