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Hello and welcome back to the psychology of your 20s, the podcast where we talk through some of the big life changes and transitions of our 20s and what they mean for our psychology.
Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the show.
Welcome back to another episode.
This week, it's a fabulous, wonderful guest episode with a lovely human.
I'm so glad to have her on board.
Thank you. Oh my gosh, that's so sweet.
What's your name? Yeah, I'm glad you want to be here.
Yeah, it's really exciting.
Laura, how do we know each other before we jump into?
We have a mutual friend, EJ.
Yeah, because she's on the podcast.
EJ and Jia. Yeah, they were all last time.
Yeah. EJ and Jia are my roommates.
So we went out to dinner and then we got chatting.
And here I am. That's how it works.
If you ever want to come on the podcast, I'm just gonna like vaguely approach you after that could be a Mexican dinner and be like, hi.
You should come on the podcast.
That's basically what I did with you.
Remember I said it to your Instagram deans.
Because yeah, you said it like at dinner, when I told you about what I was doing at uni.
Yeah. And then I was like, oh, I think she I think I might be on the podcast.
And I was just kind of waiting to see if it actually happened.
Yeah. And then you messaged me and I was like, so exciting.
I've been chosen. Yeah.
I always stick to my word.
I feel like once I've like met someone, I'm like, I love this.
I love your vibe. Yeah.
And I go, it sounds like I'm like threesome.
Like I love that vibe.
That's really funny.
But like, I love that vibe.
They have an interesting story of which you do, which we're going to get into very shortly.
I'm like, here we go.
Yeah. Next step. So maybe that's worth talking about.
Yeah. What I do. Why are you on the show today?
What's special about you?
What's special about me?
Yeah. Well, the thing, you know, made you approach me was my uni degree.
So I do a degree in forensic mortuary.
So I don't know if for people who don't really know what that means, when someone dies, I will perform an autopsy and figure out how they died, essentially.
Yeah. Yeah. So I do a medical degree.
Yeah. A medical degree.
I think that's a really great way to put it.
Yeah. Because it's Bachelor of Medical Science in brackets, forensic mortuary.
That's my official title.
That's great. Okay.
One thing that I wanted to know is how many people are in your course, because I just quickly say this, the reason also I wanted to bring you on was because I'm trialing this new series called unconventional, where I get people such as yourself who are doing career paths that I wouldn't say are alternative,
like it is still a definite established career path and something that is very necessary in society.
Yes. And something that I think most children aren't like, when I grow up, I want to be a mortician.
Yeah. This title. That's great.
Okay, one thing that I wanted to know is how many people are in your course, because I just quickly say this, the reason also I wanted to bring you on was because I'm trialing this new series called unconventional, where I get people such as yourself who are doing career paths that I wouldn't say are alternative,
like it is still a definite established career path and something that is very necessary in society.
Yes. That's something that I think most children aren't like when I grow up, I want to be a mortician.
Yeah. The same way that I want to be a ballerina, I want to be a doctor or what.
Yeah, exactly. So I was like, this is such an interesting, interesting, like concept to me.
And you're such an interesting person that you have decided to do this.
Yeah. So how many other people would you say are in the same group with you?
Well, I'm pretty sure there's 18 of us currently, because I'm in my last semester at uni.
So yeah, in two weeks, I'm that's it.
I'm graduated. Yeah.
Yeah, very exciting.
Very nerve wracking, but exciting.
But yeah, I think there's 18 of us currently.
But I don't think that everyone actually will go.
I'm not really sure we have a lot of people from very diverse areas.
I know, like someone I used to do it with wanted to be a teacher, was a teacher beforehand, and has now transitioned.
So there's a lot of different stories within how people end up there, because it's definitely not.
It's unconventional.
Yeah, exactly. I was gonna say normal.
I was like, no, unconventional.
That's a very good word.
I think it's totally normal.
Do you think? Yeah.
What do you think are some of the common...
Sorry, we're about to get into serious questions.
Yeah, of course. I'm just kind of spitballing here.
Yeah. Because this is so fascinating.
But what do you think are some of the reasons people get into this field?
Why did you decide this is what I want to do with my life right now?
Yeah, well, I've always been really into science.
And I've really loved biology, that kind of thing at school.
And I think I used to...
I always really... Fucked up my words, but...
Yeah, you boys really.
I used to want to be a vet because I really like animals.
Obviously, you know that that's what I do is my side hustle at the moment, is looking after dogs.
Exactly. That's carrying me through uni.
But I really... I ended up doing volunteering work at a vet clinic when I was probably about 14.
And I really liked watching the surgeries.
I thought it was really interesting.
The reason that I stopped doing that was because when people were crying about putting their dogs down, I just wanted to cry with them.
And it was so heartbreaking.
And I was like, this is not very professional if I cry with every single person.
So I switched. And then when I was 16, I was really obsessed with the show called Silent Witness on the BBC.
I used to watch it every Friday with my mum.
Yeah. What's it about?
It's about a forensic pathologist.
Oh, okay, there we go.
So yeah, so forensic mortuary technician is what I will be after this.
Yeah. Whereas forensic pathologist is kind of like the higher...
The analogy that I made to you earlier about the nurse versus the surgeon.
Yeah. That's... So it was about the surgeon one, the forensic pathologist.
And yeah, I just thought it was really interesting watching her dissect people essentially.
Yeah. And because I've always been interested in medicine, I just started Googling how to become a forensic pathologist.
And then I found this degree.
And then since I was 16, I just kind of stuck with it.
I just decided, okay, that's what I'm gonna do.
Yeah. So I don't know, I just kind of...
I just kind of stumbled into it, I guess, and I've just stuck with it.
But I've really... Whilst...
Because I've just finished my...
Because I'm in my last degree, I'm in my last degree in my last semester, I've just finished my clinical placement period.
And the part that I actually found that I've really enjoyed about it was feeling like I was taking care of people when they couldn't anymore.
Oh, that's such a beautiful way Yeah, because there was a couple cases that were quite confronting.
And or because obviously our job is to find cause of death.
So you need to know their medical history, their personal history, we get a story that comes kind of with them from the police about what happened, that kind of thing.
So that we... And the pathologist knows what to look for.
Yeah. Because the whole point is to be as non invasive as possible, because you don't really want...
I was taking care of people when they couldn't anymore.
Oh, that's such a beautiful way of putting it.
Yeah, because there was a couple cases that were quite confronting.
And or because obviously our job is to find cause of death.
So you need to know their medical history, their personal history, we get a story that comes kind of with them from the police about what happened, that kind of thing.
So that we... And the pathologist knows what to look for.
Yeah. Because the whole point is to be as non invasive as possible, because you don't really want to be, you know, doing all these procedures to someone if you don't have to, if you could just do a scan, a CT scan and find a cause of death.
Yeah. But so some of the ones that were more challenging, it felt really nice to like after we'd done a procedure, especially sometimes we wash their hair, we like, we wash the body down, you know, we make sure they're really clean, and we restore them.
Like part of the job is restoration.
Yeah. So it's, it felt really nice to be able to wash their hair, brush their hair and make sure they were like taken care of.
Yeah. And it felt even though it was a hard thing to do, it made me...
Being like, I'm just fascinated by this, I've had this, you know, fictional hero who does this kind of work.
And it's brought me into this kind of field.
And but do you think now that you're kind of beginning to work in this profession on a level, like doing it as almost, you're almost about to graduate, and it's going to become your job?
Yeah. What do you think some of those really important skills or traits are to have if you want to, if you're considering pursuing this kind of job?
Yeah, so everyone, pretty much everyone that I like interacted with whilst I was on this placement period, they all, we all had that same respect.
Like, obviously, you know, it's not a normal thing.
This job, like it's not normal to to deal with dead people every day.
And it's very like confronting and mentally tiring.
But I've never felt more supported in a work environment than when I was on that placement period, because that I remember my lecturers have actually discussed this with us before, like when I started kind of this year, that it's so important to make those connections with your like, like your peers and your
co -workers in the future, because no one else will understand what you're going through, than those people.
And so it was like this beautiful community.
And everyone shares this respect for like, how important what we're doing is, and that, you know, this person, like whoever they are, someone loved them.
Some they were someone's entire world.
And it's so important that we find out what happened to them to give that family closure, but to also respect them as a person and to make sure that they're taken care of.
And I felt that with everyone that that's a shared kind of belief and like the motivation for it.
Yeah. I think that answered your question.
Honestly, it's really changing my perspective, because I think when we think of people who deal with dead bodies, it can be really strange.
Yeah. Would you find that's like a reaction a lot of people have?
Yeah. I've, I, the only kind of two reactions I get when people ask what I do, which comes up all the time.
I feel like I talk about my degree all the time, because you know, you go to the hairdresser and they ask you what you're up to.
And I go, Oh, I'm at uni.
And they go, Oh, what'd you do at uni?
And then I have to go, I can't have dead people.
Yeah. Oh my God. Yeah.
I just like, oh, I do stuff on the internet.
Yeah. Um, yeah. I either get like, Oh my God.
Wow. That's so cool.
I love NCIS. Like the amount of people that are like, Oh, I used to love criminal minds.
Um, and, or I've had a couple people who kind of go, Oh, and they give me like this weird look.
Like, Oh, okay. That makes, and someone even told me once that, Oh, that makes me feel a little uncomfortable.
And I was like, okay.
Why someone has to do it.
Yeah, exactly. And I think that honestly, I was actually talking about this with one of my supervisor that I had on placement that this, I feel like a lot of it is because you, you know, like you watch movies and TV shows and that.
And a lot of the time, like the morticians and that they're painted as like these kind of like creeps.
Like, I was gonna say that that's obviously I've met you.
I really like you. Like you get along very well.
You're a lovely human.
I wish you guys could see how lovely she is off the microphone.
Thank you. But I think what my perspective is exactly that.
Like before I met you as like, these people are like strange, like middle -aged men.
You're all bald for some reason.
Yeah. In my mind. I always think of, this is going to be such a weird comparison.
But if you've ever seen, did you watch Riverdale?
No, I didn't. I didn't.
And you know what, I'm glad I didn't.
Now I like see it on TikTok all the time.
And I'm like, it's so bad.
But I like it came out in high school when I was like 15.
So I was the target demographic.
And there's, I hope my God, people are gonna think I'm so weird, but there's this guy on it who's the mortician and he's like called Dr.
Curdle or something.
And he's the creepiest dude.
They paint him as like this absolute creep.
And he's always just like, he's like taking bribes and stuff.
And just being all like, they always film him like he's just like eerie.
And I hate it. Because then people watch that and then like, yeah.
Do you think that's one of the stigma that comes along with this?
I think so. I'd like, yeah, like people who work with dead people, like people like funeral directors.
There's this guy on it who's the mortician and he's like called Dr.
Curdle or something.
And he's the creepiest dude.
They paint him as like this absolute creep.
And he's always just like, he's like taking bribes and stuff.
And just being all like they always film him.
Like he's just like, eerie.
And I hate it. Because then people watch that and then like, yeah.
Do you think that's one of the stigma that comes along with this?
I think so. I'd like, yeah, like people who work with dead people are like funeral directors or something like that.
People always see them as like, like what?
Because it's weird.
Yeah, it's because they're like, well what's wrong with you?
Why do you want to work with dead people?
Yeah. Yeah. But here we are.
Yeah. Here we are. Yeah, but I do think that that definitely is something that the more that I get into it, the more I'm like, oh, I wish that that wasn't a thing because it is like everyone there, like just wants to take care of the people.
And like you said, like it's just someone has to do this job.
Yeah. And I like personally, I find it very interesting.
And you would say that's like the best part of your job?
Yeah, yeah, I would think so.
Yeah. And I think as well, because like, I was only on placement for two weeks, but I felt like everyone was so friendly and close to each other, because it is an experience that only a very few amount of people are going to understand.
Yeah. Because especially the field is really small as well.
And, you know, it's not something that most people can relate to.
So it felt it was like a real kind of community, nice environment.
And that was really nice as well.
Yeah. Yeah. Because I can imagine, and please correct me if I'm wrong, like the levels of burnout would be pretty high.
Yeah, I think we do get there is a quite high dropout rate in this degree as well, I think, just because obviously some people really don't, it's not for them.
It's not definitely not for everyone, this kind of job.
But yeah, there's definitely, obviously, some people die in incredibly traumatic ways.
And or even if they're not traumatic, if it's mirrors something that's happened in your life, it can be quite like that, along with the stigma thing.
It's like, it is a hard job, obviously both emotionally, but also physically as well.
It's very like labor intensive, you're on your feet all the time, you know, people are heavy, you have to lift things, you know, like, because, you know, moving bodies around that kind of thing, like it's, they're heavy.
Yeah. And so people, you know, it's hard both emotionally and physically.
And so if people didn't like, what am I trying to say here, that if people weren't so passionate about it, they wouldn't do it.
It's not just a job that you fall into, because it's easy.
It's you need to be passionate to want to do that job.
You need to care about going to work every day.
Yeah, that, you know, that's the important.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, absolutely. And I feel like that is the same with a lot of jobs.
But particularly in your profession.
Yeah, I think most of us don't like to think about death.
Yeah, which is a very, very human animal reaction.
Like even before we were recording this episode, we were having this massive chat about loss and grief and, and death and how difficult that is.
Yeah. And do you think that that in any way, that working so close to those who are no longer alive has impacted you when it comes to other things that have happened in your life?
I think that, yeah, it definitely like I was telling you before this, when we were talking about our loss and everything that, yeah, I have, I've personally lost a few people in my life.
And it actually, it kind of motivated me to push harder in this degree, because I think, especially during COVID, you know, everyone at uni, I think was struggling with everything being online.
Yeah, but I really was kind of struggling to feel motivated to do it.
But I think having those my personal experiences, it made me want to help the families of these people more, because I've been on the side of that.
Yeah. You know, I know how traumatic it is when you lose someone.
So like, especially unexpectedly.
So I think that kind of fueled me to want to do it more.
Because that means that now I can be a part of finding out what happened to that.
I think we're struggling with everything being online.
Yeah. But I really was kind of struggling to feel motivated to do it.
But I think having those my personal experiences, it made me want to help the families of these people more, because I've been on the side of that.
Yeah. You know, I know how traumatic it is when you lose someone.
So like, especially unexpectedly.
So I think that kind of fueled me to want to do it more, because that means that now I can be a part of finding out what happened to their loved one and being able to tell them, like, what actually happened.
And yeah, I don't know.
Yeah, I think it kind of, the being around the dead people all the time, I think it actually, in a way, has made me like, more compassionate and more like, just more aware, because obviously, you know, I am like, you're around death or day, and it makes you really appreciate, it kind of just made me
really appreciate, like, being alive and yeah, and just being more gentle around people as well, because I have no idea, who they blame people.
It just makes me feel so much more compassion, because I really have no idea what they could be going through kind of thing.
Yeah. I feel like it's given, like, you're able to give a gift to others in terms of closure.
Yeah, exactly. Which is honestly, like, one of the best things you can hope for if you've lost someone unexpectedly, or in really tragic circumstances.
Yeah. It's just being given that gift of closure.
But it's also given you like a much stronger gift of empathy.
Yeah, and I would say you're already an incredibly compassionate person.
So thank you. But is it, I just want to touch on that part, just one thing that you said to me that I was like, wow, that's really interesting.
When you see people on the street, who look like people that you've seen at their like, most vulnerable end of life state.
Is it strange? Or is it more?
Or is it just that singular reaction of like, because I can relate to it, because you remind me of someone I want to treat you better?
Or can it be like kind of an emotional reaction?
Yeah, sometimes I think it definitely can be.
Especially if someone looks quite similar.
And obviously, I was only on placement for two weeks.
So I feel like when you work there, obviously, you're more going to happen.
But sometimes reading people's stories, yeah, like you might feel more connected with someone because you look at their story and you're like, Oh, wow, like that's similar to me.
And I think then if you saw someone who looked like them in public, then that would be more of an emotional thing.
But I also think that a lot of it is like, you get quite desensitized to that.
Because you kind of have to because if you go in and you're like, so sad about death every day, you're not going to be able to do the job.
Yeah. And like, and like, ultimately, like, I'm, you know, I'm there to do this job as best I can and make sure that these people are looked after.
So I kind of you kind of need to leave that.
Leave that at home.
Yeah, and yeah, there's a you really have to be quite mentally strong to be able to separate your work from your home life and not take work home with you.
But yeah, I definitely like sometimes I yeah, you would see people I'm like, wow, yeah, you look just like this person.
Or Yeah. What cases do you think are the hardest?
Do you think it's people who are our age, who are young?
Or? Yeah, I don't. Yeah.
Obviously, yeah, children is always a hard one.
Yeah. But I find more the stories Yeah, are the harder ones.
When it's you read one that someone had no family or something or that they were alone, like that is a hard one.
Um, more than like, yeah, like it's very like determine on like the case.
Yeah. But there's Yeah, it's definitely.
Yeah, children, children is a hard one.
I even find sometimes just like elderly people because obviously we live in an aging, like aging population.
But yeah, it is it is there's, yeah, it makes you realize there's a lot of old people that especially like die alone, which is very, I find that sad.
Yeah, yeah, that's one of my biggest fears.
Yeah, I honestly, there's like, I this is a kind of a tangent, but sometimes I'm like, Oh, I want to like, um, you know, be alone forever and like, just marry and be single and just like live a great life for childless life.
Like, yeah, I just get to travel.
And then I'm like, the flip side of that is like, one fight end up dead and no one finds me.
Yeah, weeks. Yeah, yeah, those are always because you read about stories like that where like neighbors call because of you know, there's flies on the windows, all there's a smell.
And that's Yeah, which is which is which is sad.
It's like, the other one, I read this really sad story today about this guy who was found in WA, kind of related, not really, but WA, for those American listeners is a state in Australia.
And they he was to call not a motorbike rider, mountain bike route.
And he had been missing for like 10 days or something.
And no one knew who he no one had noticed that he was missing.
And he got into like a really bad accident while he was mountain bike riding, and someone with her dog like found him.
Yeah. And I was like, that is really, really sad that there is no one to notice your absence.
Exactly. Yeah, like, no one to notice your absence because your presence.
Yeah, exactly. Wasn't that felt.
And I'm sure his presence was felt in ways that Yeah, you might not even know.
Yeah. But I can definitely say why that would be very, very difficult.
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
There's been ones whilst I was on the two week placement that we would read.
And it's like, because that you tend to chat about them a lot as well.
Because, yeah, like I said, like that community, no one else understands what you're going through.
So we tend to there's a lot of talk about like, Oh, well, that's sad.
And we all read the story.
And we think that's really nice.
Yeah, there's a lot of conversation about it.
And yeah, remember, there was one where we will.
That's so sad. Because yeah, no one, no family like they've been left for a while.
And that's, it is, it's hard, because it's like, that's, it's, that's sad that there was no one yet to realise that you were missing or no one checking up on you.
Yeah. Yeah. And do you feel like I feel like that would almost make what you were saying better, whereby you're able to give them that like, exactly.
Yeah. Oh my god, can you hear the noise?
Is that something? Can in terms of yes, I'm like, with suicides and that, but yeah, I don't, I don't think there's really a good time ever to die.
But I like what we were talking about before, if not being alone, like I would just not.
That's what I wouldn't like, I wouldn't enjoy being left, if that makes sense.
But then again, that's why I think I feel like this job is really important is that then we can help.
Yeah. You know, do you find that this job makes you think more about death?
I do think actually, yeah, because I think then, in terms of however that person has died, whether it be, you know, an accident or a medical thing, I was saying to you before, I've never felt like I wanted to be healthier in my life.
Yeah. Because obviously, you know, obesity and that is a big problem within modern, like the modern world.
And wow, I've never wanted Yeah, well, because even if someone looks relatively healthy on the outside, sometimes I don't know if you've ever heard of the phrase, like, I think someone said it when I was in high school, but like skinny fat, where it's like skinny on the outside, but fat on the inside.
What does that mean?
So like, when you have, like, not sometimes a poor diet, but like, your organs can develop, this is just like a medical lesson.
Yeah. Give it to us.
They develop, you develop more fat around your organs.
So even if you look relatively healthy, in quotations, yeah, on the outside, your organs can be quite unhealthy.
Yeah. And yeah, and so sometimes now I think I'm like, wow, they, when someone I know is quite thin, or like you see someone who's quite thin, but maybe they don't eat well, I'm like, they could still be really unhealthy.
Yeah, really unhealthy on the inside.
And it's, yeah, because I don't think about that with myself a lot.
Like, I think that I, you know, I eat relatively healthy.
And you know, I like, I do my exercise.
Like, wow, maybe my organs don't look great.
That's so weird, because you would see them.
You would see like what it looks like.
Well, and that's the other thing as well with like, I was talking about this with the other people I went on placement with, that now sometimes I see people and I'm like, I bet I know what your organs look like.
Really? Yeah. My god, don't look too close to me.
Hopefully my organs are, I'm not.
I'm sure your organs will be beautiful.
Thank you so much. You are.
I exercise. I promise.
I had some strawberries for lunch.
Yeah. What's the weirdest organ do you think like that you when you're doing your examinations?
Is it one that you're like, Oh, yeah, I can't wait to get to the brain or like, Oh, dang, I want to remove the pancreas or like look at the pancreas.
So um, I don't think there's one that I like, well, they get excited.
I do like to look at people's hearts because your heart, I think heart health tells you a lot about overall health, because obviously it's a very important organ.
So I do think it's really interesting to see people's hearts because even some people who are quite small, your heart weight is supposed to be like roughly, I can't remember the percentage, but it's supposed to be a specific percentage of your overall body weight to be healthy.
And some people's hearts are just absolutely massive.
And is that, do they get to control that or like that health?
Yeah. Heart health is about, um, not like sometimes diet, but mostly exercise, because your heart is a muscle.
So the more that you work that muscle, then the bigger it, the bigger it gets because I think it's, I'm not, I'm not the best at it, but certainly like, I know that your diet can affect like your heart and that kind of thing.
I'm, I'm, I haven't done my medical degree yet.
I'm not, I'm not a doctor yet, but you know more than most of us though.
But yeah, so like, it's kind of crazy seeing some people who on the outside, you wouldn't think that they're organs without unhealthy, but then you open them up and oh my God, wow.
Look how big that organ is or look how big their liver is.
Look how big their heart is.
Um, so I do enjoy the heart to see that because that's quite indicative.
Um, but I do always just as well, when you first see the organs, it's always very interesting because sometimes it's not what you're expected to see at all.
It's just like, whoa, they looked quite healthy.
It was the amount of people that we get in every day, the amount of admissions we have every day.
Because obviously everyone knows that people die all the time.
But even me, when I first started my first day of placement, I was like, whoa, that's a lot of people.
Um, yeah, because you know, you get, you get like, I mean, there's not a set number obviously, because it's not an hour, it's not a lot.
Um, and you just don't really think about how many people are dying all the time.
And so I think that's, I remember telling my mum about it and she would ask like, oh, how many people have been today?
And I'd be like, oh, like nine and she was like, whoa, nine overnight.
I was like, yeah, that, yeah, nine people.
Yeah. And how, what's the average for it?
Would you have like an average on a weekly basis, but you obviously don't serve the entire city?
No, no, yeah. So there's, because there's three facilities.
Does everyone who dies have to go through?
No, there's a, there's a set of legislation.
Um, that's the coroner's act of 2009.
I'm pretty sure it is.
My God, she's done.
She knows her shit.
My lecture is listening to this and I got that wrong.
Please don't yell at me.
I'm pretty sure it was coroner's act 2009.
Um, but yeah, there's a list of like reasons why someone would be admitted.
So yeah. Cause normally someone dies and then, um, if it was essentially, if it was not in, if, if it wasn't expected for that person, if they weren't supposed to die or if they were going in for a routine operation and then died, that they shouldn't, that shouldn't have been the outcome that they'll
get sent to us. If they're in hospital or if they're in a government facility of any kind, like hospitals, if they're in custody, if they're in mental institutions, like anything like that, if they're under the care of any government agency, then they get sent to us, even if they know what happened.
Yeah. Interesting. Yeah.
Cause I thought you were about to say the opposite and I was like, I'm sorry.
If someone died in custody, I feel like I would want an examination of what happened there.
No, no, yeah. Yeah.
They all get sent. Um, yeah.
And it's, so it's only really like if, cause normally someone dies, someone dies, they will get sent to us.
And so if, if they're going to be found, you have to So yeah, at least for the second one, I think vaccination, we are at a, I don't know if you they'll call up, the police will call up their doctor.
And be like, will you sign off on this death certificate?
You know, do you think they, do you think that they, this was what you expected for them.
And a lot of the time, doctors will just say, yeah, if they've had, you know, if they've had terminal cancer for four years or something, they're gonna be like, yeah, I'll sign off on that, that was expected.
Or if they're 95, and they've got this host of health problems, yeah, okay.
I'll sign off on that.
But I'm pretty sure that doctors can also, part of the coroner's act is if you don't report, because they're called like reportable.
Yeah. So yeah, there's definitely some that you get in that don't need to be there.
But not not every single person who dies will be sent.
Yeah. Yeah, that is really surprising.
Yes. There we go. We're learning more.
And we've talked about how it's changed your perspectives on death.
But something you said to me that really stuck with me when we were chatting before we started recording.
Yes. You could die tomorrow.
Yeah. So how was it impacted like how you live your life now?
Obviously, you want to be healthier.
Yeah. A lot more present, more present to every moment and being like, oh, wow, life is really amazing.
Yeah. But is there anything else that it's really impacted on for you?
I don't, I think it's, it's, yeah, it's a hard question.
Because I think I've already, already as a person with my own experiences, I've been very much like, not taking life for granted.
Like I'm very much like a live in the moment kind of person.
But yeah, I do think it yeah, I really I just think that it just makes me appreciate life more.
I'm not sure if there's really anything else that it's affected in me as a person besides like the compassion, like just more that kind of thing.
Yeah. But maybe that's something you'll see as you get more into it.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, like I said, like I've only had this very limited kind of experience because obviously, like I've done, I've done a three year uni degree.
So I've like known what it was about.
But obviously actually experiencing that every day for two weeks is a lot more.
Yeah. But yeah, I don't, I don't, it's hard to think of anything off top of head.
I think I might just it might be something that comes more with time.
And is it a job that you see yourself doing for the rest of your life?
We talked about this before.
Yeah. Let's examine that a bit more.
Um, I, it is incredibly, like exhausting, both mentally and I mean, I find it more physically exhausting than mentally.
But I've been told by my lecturers before that I am just a little bit strange in that nothing really grosses me out really.
Like even when I was on placement, there was some cases where the experience technicians were like, that's gross.
And I was like, oh, it doesn't really to excel and have more responsibility.
But I guess when you see you have all the responsibility you need, when you're like, when you're starting.
Yeah, exactly. Like, yeah, it's like, well, I start working, I'll be 22.
And then what I'm gonna do that until I'm like 60.
Yeah, like that's a long.
So I don't I don't know, really, yeah, I'll do it for like, I do enjoy it.
And I definitely want to pursue it more.
And I do I like the medical field, I think I don't think that I would.
Oh, I don't actually I don't want to say that I wouldn't do anything outside of the medical field because I do enjoy my animals.
Yeah, my side thing.
Yeah, exactly. And I would never want to like, fully be like, yeah, I won't do anything else.
But I do definitely, I see myself working in it.
And I think the placement definitely made me more confident in that.
Because like, the super my supervisor was so supportive, and they really helped me just feel more confident in myself.
Yeah. And that little self doubt that I had that maybe I wasn't like skilled enough to do this job, or it just wasn't for me like that they really helped reassure that.
And so I definitely see myself like working there for at least some period of my life.
Yeah, yeah, that's good to hear.
Yeah. Um, so one of the last couple of questions I really want to ask you is we've talked about how it can be rough, how it can be physically and mentally training, but there's obviously a lot of rewards.
What kind of what do you do to unwind?
You know, obviously, seeing dead bodies all the time, and being exposed to death can be quite overwhelming.
Like what kind of supports you in your personal life to be able to do that day in day out when you begin working?
I have a really kind of strong network of well, like I have a small amount of very close people in my life.
Yeah, like my my roommates and my mom and my partner like all like, I can talk to them about that.
And if I yeah, I tell them about what I've what I've been through.
And like, obviously, I can't tell them a lot of specifics for legal reasons, because of confidentiality in that.
But it's good to be able to tell them at least if I've had a rough day, strong network of, well, like I have a small amount of very close people in my life.
Yeah, like my my roommates and my mom and my partner like all like, I can talk to them about that.
And if I, yeah, I tell them about what I've what I've been through.
And like, obviously, I can't tell them a lot of specifics for legal reasons, because of confidentiality in that.
But it's good to be able to tell them at least if I've had a rough day.
Yeah, and those and those people are very important to my life.
And if I tell them that I've had a bad day, they will be there for me.
Yeah. And I also have quite a strong, like, rewind kind of I really enjoy me time.
Yeah, I'm a very me time person at the end of the day.
And I was telling you before, you know, I do my yoga, I have like a pretty strong, when I'm in a routine, I have a pretty strong like exercise kind of routine like I keep myself like, and the yoga for me is really nice.
Like I put on my meditation music, and I just kind of step out of my head for a sec.
Yeah. And I think that's really important to do these like reflections as assignments, which is essentially just, how do I feel?
Yeah, our lecturers being like, Are you okay?
Because even when I wrote a reflection, earlier this year, I talked about some of my personal experiences and how that was making me nervous to go on placement and continue in this career.
But and then my lecture actually reached out to me and was like, please come and talk to me about this.
And then we arranged have this like one on one meeting.
And we and like we talked it out with her.
And she was really lovely about it.
So like, it's been really good support from the uni.
But then again, in my personal life, but I think that's because I spend a lot of time like explaining to my family and friends, like what exactly I'm doing kind of thing.
So they understand it on a deeper level.
Like my partner knows everything about anatomy, like go off, he watches all my life.
Yeah. Yeah. So yeah.
That's really good.
And I think final question.
You know, the whole kind of theme of this is like, this is unconventional.
Yes. Right. Yes. You're doing something that is so important to society.
I think is really overlooked.
Yeah. Like when it gets down to it, like, yeah, that was half my surprise when you told me like, I'm, you know, I'm a mortician.
Yeah. I'm a what is the forensic forensic tech technician, forensic mortuary technician.
And I guess if there's someone listening, maybe they found this episode because like, I actually want to do this.
Yeah. Maybe they watch the same BBC series.
Yeah. Interesting. What would be like your one piece of advice?
Um, I definitely think to expose yourself because on YouTube actually, because it's educational, there is numerous videos of autopsies.
What? Yeah. That's how I started watching them in high school.
Like I had a favourite autopsy in high school because you can, like you can, it's the same way that if you've ever seen like birthing videos on YouTube.
Yeah. Yeah. Because it's educational.
So it's not, it's not.
It's not gory. It's not gore.
It is gore. It is gore.
Exactly. It's like a medical procedure.
Yeah. Um, so definitely expose yourself to those things because the times that I was feeling doubts was during lockdown when I couldn't have any of my classes online and I wasn't going into my like anatomy labs where we had, you know, the, you know, the specimens and that kind of thing.
And that was when I was like, God, do I really want to be doing this?
And it wasn't until then I was more in person again and started actually being exposed to like the bodies that I like really like reignited my passion because I love like, I'm very interested in the anatomy and like the science of it all.
Um, so I would definitely say that, but, um, also just making sure that like, it's not going to be too much for you because that's like I said earlier that there's quite a high dropout rate, I think in this degree.
Yeah. Um, but you're like, again, you're never going to know until you try.
And if you do have an interest, then that's good.
But in saying that, I think that my degree is being cancelled by my uni because they don't think there's enough.
How are you going to do, how are they going to do it?
I think, I think one of my lecturers wants to make it a, a master's program and a different uni or something.
Like there will be a pathway, but it's, yeah, it's, it's, it's a very small field.
It's definitely something that's hard to get into, I would say it's not well, first of all, it's not for everyone, but it's also, yeah, it's very small.
Everyone knows everyone kind of thing.
Um, so yeah. Think through your choices.
Yeah. And yeah, and I think in the future, it might be a bit harder.
Like I'm very privileged that I had the chance to do this degree, because it's only been running since 2019, I think.
So yeah, very, it hasn't, very amazing.
Yeah. So, but I think I, I believe they will do it.
I know they do it in other states.
I'd, me talking New South Wales in general.
Yeah, for the Australian audience.
Yeah, for the Australian audience, this is not for an international, because, well, the job is quite different in other countries anyway.
Yeah, I can imagine.
Yeah. So it very much varies across the world.
But yeah, I think that's kind of, yeah, if you if you really do have a passion for it, it's definitely worth it because it's an, it's an experience.
Yeah. Because even the people I went on placement with, like I said, a lot of them might not even go and end up into this field, but I still went through the placement because what an experience.
Yeah. You know, it's not something that everyone else is going to do.
Yeah. Like 99 .999 % of the world will never know what it feels like.
Yeah, exactly. Well, thank you so much for coming on.
And I thank you for having me.
It's been fun. Yeah.
Did you enjoy it? Yeah.
Yeah. Did we all learn something?
Hopefully. Oh my gosh.
Hopefully. Oh, I think we probably, I definitely learned something.
This is such a fascinating episode.
And thank you for just sharing your learnings and your experience.
Thank you. And to be honest, makes me feel a lot better about dying, that someone's going to wash my hair for me.
Exactly. When I'm dead.
We all we do really care.
Yeah. Yeah. It's honestly really sweet.
Like I know that sounds strange to say, maybe I don't think it's strange, but like for other people this thing being like, Oh, what, this sounds sweet, but it makes me feel really nice that like there is this sense of respect for people after they're gone.
Yeah. And that there's people like you who are passionate about that and willing to do that work.
So exactly. Any final comments before we wrap up this lovely episode?
Oh my gosh, not really.
But just thank you for having me.
It's really nice. Yeah.
Yeah. I really hope that people have, you know, learnt something or at least found it interesting.
Yeah, I did. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for listening.
As always, thank you to Laura.
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Thank you so much. This year I've been really rethinking my relationship with alcohol.
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