5 Rules of Money: How to Make It, Save It, & Be Smarter About It | The Mel Robbins Podcast

Hey, it's your friend Mel and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast.

Thank you for hanging out with me. I just love spending time with you and I also wanted to

acknowledge you for something. You are listening to this podcast and that's really cool because you

listen knowing that it could help you make your life better and I just want to say that's awesome

go you. Welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast family. Thank you, thank you, thank you for making

this podcast one of the most popular podcasts in the entire world. I'm Mel Robbins. I'm a New

York Times bestselling author and one of the world's leading experts on confidence and motivation.

And I have a really simple mission showing up here talking to you twice a week. I just want to

inspire and empower you with tools and experts today. You're going to meet an incredible expert

who's going to give you the resources and the strategies that you need to create a better life.

And that brings me to today's conversation. The five things that you need to know to take control

of your financial life. Who is in the chair today? I'm so freaking fired up for this. Tiffany

Alice is here. She is known as the Bajanista and here's what I love about her. She's not only

going to break this entire topic of money and your financial life down. She is so amazingly relatable

and entertaining. You're going to learn so many cool things. You're going to learn how to increase

your savings without depriving yourself. How to get out of debt. You're going to learn three

ways to boost your credit score like that. And one of my all time favorite concepts about money.

She calls it paying yourself first and you have to learn this.

I want to be very clear about something. I am unbelievably talented when it comes to making money.

But I am not a financial expert. In fact, I consider myself to be

bad with money. And it may surprise you to hear that I feel that way about myself. And I'll admit to

you, I have a lot to learn when it comes to being responsible with money, managing money. And if I dig

even deeper, I have a lot of emotion about money. See, I shop when I'm stressed. And even though I

can pay my bills at this moment in my life, I don't open my bills when they arrive. They've

literally sit there in a little stack. I don't know if you have a little stack like in the entry

way of your house or on the counter in the kitchen. But I always have like a little stack. I don't

know what it is. I kind of want to get to the bottom of it today. And this has been the way that I've

been for as long as I can remember. In fact, I can give you some examples. If I go back to college,

so I arrive at college and they have that sort of like opening registration forum thing.

There's these tables and clubs you can join. When I went to college, I'm 55 years old, no

kidding. There were banks there. And they were handing out credit cards like literally handing out

credit cards as if it was candy to trick or treaters. All you had to do, walk up to a table,

fill out a form. You get a credit card. You get a credit card. I'm like, I'll take a credit card.

It was like free money until I graduated with $10,000 in debt. And I had no idea what I'd

spend it on. And that led to the next era in my life of financial irresponsibility in which I would

play this game that I called credit card leapfrog, which basically involved Mel Robbins searching

for a credit card with a 0% offer and then transferring my balance for my last credit card that I

had maxed out to this new one. And I get it. I was an idiot. And the fact is though that what was

really going on is I was intimidated by money. And I was also really embarrassed by the reality

of my financial situation. And it felt like living in financial quickstand. And when I got into my

20s, my first job after law school was to be a public defender. And I could barely make the

ends meet. I mean, I'm talking pay rent, pay for groceries. And so I started putting my living

expenses on a credit card. I mean, it got so bad in terms of me being in debt and just constantly

being irresponsible around it that when Chris and I got married 28 years ago, I came into that

marriage with five or six credit cards that were completely maxed out. And I've, did I tell him?

I'm being serious. In fact, if I sit here and really think about it, I'm not sure he even knows

this today because I kept it secret. And I just kind of kept paying the minimum balance. And I'm

telling you this because I think this is more common than most of us realize. And when you get

into debt, where you are like, I was and you are constantly living beyond your means because you're

like, okay, I feel terrible. So I don't want to sit and look at my bills. So I'm just going to go

out and spend money that I don't have. And eventually I'll have money. And so it just creates

this level of stress and shame. And it became for me a very toxic cycle that was hard to break out of.

And you know, as my story progresses, a lot of you know that when I was in my 40s, my husband

and his best friend followed a dream of going into the restaurant business. And like a lot of you

who are small business owners, we put up our house as the collateral for that business because

that's all the collateral that we had. And that's great when your business is successful. But the

market took a turn. The business started to fail. We found ourselves 800 grand in debt. I'm 41

years old, three kids under the age of 10. And let me tell you some. If you think a credit card

bill is scary, that is nothing compared to what it feels like to have leans start arriving in the

mail saying they've hit your house and bankruptcy notifications. And so many of you that have heard

that story. That was my life 15 years ago. Want to know, Mel, oh my god, 800,000 dollars in debt,

almost going to lose your house. You were unemployed. How the hell did you get out of debt?

And I've never really given the answer because I just outworked it. Like that literally is the

answer that I realized nobody was coming. I realized that my husband was doing the best he can to

try to keep the business afloat. He hadn't been paid in like six months. Like if I was going to

figure this, I had to do something. And what that looked like is working like a freak. I mean, I had

two, three, four jobs at a time. I just never stopped. And I started chipping away at the credit

card bills and paying off the minimum balances and then making more chunks. And then when I paid

him off, I cut him up. And when I finally got myself out of debt, not mortgage, I still have a

mortgage, but like all of that debt that had racked up the leans on the house, all that stuff. That

was like six years ago. I had one rule, any dollar that came in, 50 cents had to go into savings.

Why? Because it was so terrifying to be under that kind of excruciating financial stress and shame.

I never wanted to be in that position again. And I know there's a lot that I can learn, which is why

I'm so excited to learn from Tiffany. But I'm also here because I look at my three kids, our

adult kids. So 25, 23 and 18. And here's what scares me. I pass this stuff down to our daughters.

I see them struggling with their relationship with money. It's not a powerful relationship.

They are scared of it. They want more of it. They don't feel empowered by it. And you know,

one of them is so afraid that she will never have enough money that she's like a squirrel.

She works like crazy. She's always working on something. And then she's taken the nut and she's

scrolling it away. And she's not enjoying it. And then there's our other daughter, who's 23. And

she is identical to how I used to be. And you know what she does? She does what I do. She shops.

And she buys something that she can't afford. In fact, the other time I was talking to her on

FaceTime, this was two days ago, she's sitting there eating something that look weird. I'm like,

what is that? She's like, oh, it's CMOS. It's like the next thing. Everybody's eating it now,

lay mom, which means, of course, you have to buy it in some organic blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, kind of thing, which means it costs way beyond the budget of a

serving artist. And so I know better. I'm like, don't say anything, Mel, because you know,

that's not a good thing to do. But I feel like I don't know how to empower

my kids to break out of the cycle with money that I was trapped in. And that is why I am so excited

when our next guest today said, Mel, the Mel Robbins Puck, of course, I'll get on a plane and

fly to Boston and sit down with you and spend time teaching you, Mel and you listening, the five

things that you need to know to take control of your financial life. Tiffany, Aliche is here.

And you might have already met her before because she is an expert and star in the Netflix series

Get Smart with Money. Her podcast Brown Ambition has won a webby award. Her book Get Good With

Money is a New York Times bestseller. And she is built an eight figure business. And she runs an

eight figure business. And she has been in the depths of debt. And you know, what's interesting is

I can almost hear right now all the moms and dads pulling up the share button and sharing this

episode to their kids, because you know, as soon as we're done editing this, this is going

on straight to my kids. And if you're listening to this because your mom or dad or aunt or uncle

or brother or sister sent this to you, I want to tell you some. You're going to freaking love Tiffany.

And you need to hear it. Tiffany has helped two million people just like you save, manage, and pay

off hundreds of millions of dollars. And one of the reasons why I like her so much is she's been

there. She understands what it's like to be under crushing debt, to be a victim of a scam,

to not be able to pay your bills. And she is living proof that you can learn everything you need to

learn. You can literally not only climb out of that debt, you can build a mountain of wealth.

And she's going to meet you wherever you are. So are you ready to get good with money?

I sure am. Tiffany, welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast. I'm so excited to be here, Mel.

I would love to just jump in and talk about your story with money. And first of all, I want to offer

up that your story is very common. That you know, you are not the exception, but the rules.

So many of us, especially when we're younger, struggle with our financial relationship with money.

So like I'm not surprised by some of the things you went through, because I went through them as well.

And when you've helped as many people as you've helped, I would imagine that you hear some of

the same things, whether it's fear or shame, what is something that you want someone to know?

If they're struggling to pay their bills right now, or they are like Chris and I were their house

heads leans on it, they're in a mountain of debt. And they think they've done all the right things,

but they're still feeling this level of why can't I get this right? What is your overarching message

in terms of what's possible for somebody? Well, one, I want you to know that it is quite possible.

If you can hear the sound of my voice, it means that you are still currently here. Yes. And because

you're still currently here, then you can turn around whatever situation or circumstance that you're

in. I promise you. No matter how much debt you have, no matter how many, when you said 800,000,

I'll say I see your 800 and I had 300,000. But we're going to get to that. So why don't we get into,

I know your background, but why don't you tell everybody how you became the Bajanista, like your

background? I feel like I was born into the Bajanista. I'm one of five girls and my parents are both

immigrants from Nigeria and my dad especially was really focused on teaching his girls about money.

Okay. He was an accountant. He has his bachelors in economics, his masters in finance, and we had

money lessons at home. Wow. Yeah. So every Thursday we would have like a family meeting,

uh-huh, usually about chores and homework, but also the family's financial state. Wow. And honestly,

when you're a kid, you think like whatever is happening in your home is like that's what happens

everywhere. It wasn't until probably middle school and I'm like, you guys don't, you don't have

money class. And I'm here because my dad let us know this is normal. Everyone does this. And I'm like,

so you don't do Thursday night and money sessions got it. Okay. But it was great because I mean,

at the time, I didn't think it was great, but it really taught us the basics and not to be afraid

of money because we talked about it so openly. Okay. Like he would leave the light bill on the

dining room table and he would say, if the light bill goes down, we could put money into our,

our traveling fun and we can go to Disney. You know what? I'm stealing that right now. No,

I'm serious because I think as a parent having an 18 year old son, like I come downstairs in the

morning and if he's the last one up, it's like every life in the house is on and you can say it

intellectually. Yes. But even just that strategy of leaving the bill out and saying if you turn off

the lights, this is lower. And I can use that money to do that more things for you. Yes. That's

a great tip. Thank you to your dad because one of the things that he understood and is then kids don't

care about your bills. I don't care if your kid is 30 or three. True. They don't care about your

bills. What they do care about is what's important to them. And so if you can link your bills to

what's important to them, then they will care about that outcome. Match it to what's important.

And then all of a sudden, even for yourself, like money for money's sake is usually not motivation

enough. Yeah. You know, matching it to a thing vacation less work more time with family.

If you can match it to something that's important, then it's easy to stick to the money goal.

Interesting. So did you like literally graduate from high school and head off into your life and

you were already chipping away, saving millions of dollars? Well, I was financially, quote, unquote

perfect until about 2526 because I just did what my parents told me to do. Okay. That's around that

age. Gotcha. You know, you start old people call it smelling yourself when you're like, I'm grown.

I can do what I'm wanting. And so I was really good at savings. I went to school for business.

And I hated all my internships because I'm fun. And it was like, I'm dying here. Yes. And so I

decided I wanted to teach because I love kids. And I thought, I think I want to be a teacher,

but I don't want to be broke. How do I reconcile those two things? Yes. So I decided, well,

if I'm really good with my money, I can take a job that takes less, that pays less.

True. So I did then. I became a preschool teacher. I thought you were great at them. Oh my god.

I was the best. I'm not going to lie. Everybody loved Miss Tiffany. I mean, because I was like 21. And I

had a ball. Okay. So you are following the advice of your parents. You are working the systems.

You are able to do a job that you love. Yes. You are checking all the boxes. We're having

saving, saving, saving. Okay. I lived home for the first year. Smart. And my dad showed me how to

do my own taxes. So much so that I was so good at like budgeting and managing money that I was

show the other teachers. Yeah. The maintenance men would come in during nap time. The parents,

I started to have like parent university. So the kids would nap, parents would come in and I would

show them, this is how you budget. This is how you save. And that's how the budget used to

was born informally because I realized I don't just like teaching kids. I like teaching this too.

Right. You know, that's super cool. You know, and then I want to say about 25. That's when I said,

I don't actually want your advice anymore because I'm an adult. You mean your father. Yes.

Okay. I'm an adult. I have it. I have it. And so it was then that I decided to go back for

my master's in education. Yeah. I thought maybe I'd be a principal. So all of a sudden it would be

a great principal too. Well, you know, I don't know because I feel like you put the best people

in the classroom with fun being honest. And that's when I realized after my master's 50,000

dollars later. I don't like this. Yeah. So I didn't have undergraduate loans. My parents helped.

And I lived at home part of the time. So I didn't have student loans. Okay. So now you're 26. You

got 50,000 dollars in student loans. Yes. And then to around that time I said, you know, I had $30,000

saved. Yeah. Because although I was working and making by then about 50,000 dollars a year as a

teacher, I was really good at side hustling. I, I, I babysit. I tutored. And so I saved about 30,000

dollars. And I think I want to buy something bought a condo, which was not necessarily bad. Right.

Except for it was right before the crash. The recession. I think we're talking 2007, 2007. Yes.

Yes. Yeah. So I was when it's all happening to me too. So I bought it in 2006, right? Yep.

So I paid 220 for the condo. And I was like, no problem. I've got a good job. And then I thought I

want to learn how to like be rich. And I had a friend air quotes who I thought was rich.

Because in your 20s, you think if someone has a nice car, yes, an apartment or rich. So I asked

him, can you teach me to invest? Not my dad. But you can you teach you to invest? He said,

sure, you look stupid. I mean, yeah. And so he told me to pull money for one. He said,

do you have credit cards? I said, just this one that my dad told me to pay off every month,

which I do. He's like, no, no, open up a couple more because you can pull money off a credit card.

I didn't know. And I was like, sure. So I opened up the cards. And he's like, pull, I think I want

to say I pulled off on 15,000 dollars. Yeah. And it's been such a red flag because I was at the bank.

I can literally see the bankers facing, are you okay? So it kept me there for an hour, like

grilling me and no red flag went off like Tiffany. They were worried because they're like, he's

getting scammed. Well, obviously, yes. But I didn't know that. And so I, because I was like,

we have a contract signed this contract with him. Of course, he promptly flew the coupe. I did

not know. Yes. Wait. So this was a guy who basically told you to take out credit cards,

get a cash advance on the credit card, give him the money and he was going to invest it for me.

Oh, man. But at the time, I was like, but he's rich. He wouldn't feel for me. That's true.

You know, like if somebody is like doing all the things and going out and they're in the

hospital, you're like, oh, they know how to make money. Well, he was, this is a serial,

he, I didn't know he was a serial scammer. That's why he had the money.

Then took your 15,000 or 20,000 and then like bought more nice clothes and then went on to

the next person. Wow. So I, but I didn't know at first because even thinking about the terms,

it was this 15,000 is going to yield you $2,000 a week for two years. I don't even know.

I didn't even really ask what it was going to be invested in. I was like, that sounds like a lot

of money. I mean, so because I thought I'm about to be rich, I had these credit cards that's

still because I had such great credit. Yeah. I had these credit cards that I never thought about

using credit cards before, but I'm like, so I'm going to be rich. Let me start using them. I ran

up another 15,000 on that. Oh my God. So all of it's 30,000 in debt and it's probably at like 18,

20,000. I can only imagine. Yes. Yes. So now I've got $50,000 in student loan debt,

$220,000 a mortgage, $30,000 credit card debt literally the year before debt free.

And I was just happy as a client to do because you know, like, you're just a little fool. Like,

I'm about to be rich. And then a week or two in after sticking up all my money on my credit cards,

you know, reaching out to him, like, when can I expect my first payment? He was the worst kind of

thief. I like just a clean thief, just steal my money and go. He instead would be like, you

didn't get the deposit. I sent it. Call your bank. So he took me through. So now he's gaslighting you.

I didn't have the word for it then. And I'd be like, bank, you know, did you get the money? And

they're like, no. So he did that for a few months. And I maybe he was trying to like get away

because he then moved. So maybe he was hoping, you know, that I wouldn't call the police and so

until he could move away. Then he just stopped answering. Now, I remember I was devastated. Like,

wait, what do I do now? And so I was like, that's all right. Tiffany, you are really good

saver, a really good budgeter. And so you're just going to, you know, babysit tutor and your job

and you're just going to pay this day down. Yeah. Oh, yeah. You're not going to tell anybody. Yes.

And then the recession hit and people were losing their jobs. And I said, oh, not me.

Because I'm a teacher. And then they called us and said, actually you two three days before

the new school year was set to begin. Oh, man. I was like, I don't understand because teachers don't,

I mean, you're a, you need teachers. Yeah. But it was a nonprofit based school. And so they lost

their funding because the corporations that gave us funding was the recession for them. Right.

Right. So I'm like, yeah, but school is supposed to start in three days. And then the summer,

you don't get paid. So I was waiting on that first check to start this new plan. Oh, my God.

And I remember being like, what do I do now? Oh, all this money. I have a mortgage. And so I call

my oldest sister Karen because you know, she's mom, junior. Yeah. How was I?

And she was like, honestly, Tiffany, what's the worst case scenario? And I was like, I don't know.

I guess I lose my condo. Yeah. And she said, well, what would happen? Then I'm like, I guess I

would have to tell mommy and daddy and move back home. And she's like, well, why wait? I think you

should just do the thing now preemptively, you know? And I was like, so I didn't even tell my

parents. I just brought like a lamp home. And then I brought like a blanket and then my mattress.

And my dad's like, are you back? I'm like, yeah. But he didn't know why I was back. Because he

knew it was like a recession. And he didn't know, he didn't know that I lost my job. So he just,

he just assumed I was trying to save money, right? But I didn't want him to know all the other

shenanigans surrounding only. So did you lose the condo too? Yes. It was honestly, you know how

some things you're like, it can't get worse. And it was like, hold my beer. Yes. Indeed it can. So

I ended up losing my condo to foreclosure. And I tried to keep up with the mortgage until my

retirement account was, was emptied. So now I have no retirement account. I lost my condo. I still

owe all this money. And now I'm living back home with two Nigerian parents who think like I'm in

12th grade still. Because by then I was like 28, 29. And I they were like, well, I hope you know,

you have a curfew. I'm like, a curfew. They're like, if you're home, that's fine. That money.

Yes. I had a sister who was still in high school. They're like, we don't want you coming in and out.

Like her rules are your rules. I was like, we would. Yeah. And so I stayed there till I was 29. And

on my 29th going on 30th birthday, I remember laying in my middle school bed because that was

the bed available because the baby sister was in like my cool team like spot in the basement. And

she was like, I don't care if you're home. Go live upstairs with mommy and dad. Yeah. And I remember

laying in my middle school bed to your streaming down the sides of my face. And I thought I had more

money the last time I lived in this bed when I was like 14 because I babysat I walked dogs.

And I was like, I had more money than I had maybe like three or four thousand dollars a day then

that I do now at 30. And I was calling myself every loser like just talking to myself in a way

that would never let anyone talk to me. And it was I was filled with such shame. Yeah.

That has set me into a state of depression because I was like, I'm never going to get out of this.

Never ever ever. So that's when people come to me. I'm like, I feel it deeply, you know.

And so I just I stayed in that state of depression for a while until my best friend Linda

who used to call me all the time was like, you never want to go out. You always sound so sad,

which wrong. And I used to lie to her and say, everything's fine. Everything's fine. And then

one day she's like, everything's not fine Tiffany. Like, what's happening? So I tried to lie to her

again. And I just broke down into tears. And I was like, Oh, I lost everything. And she was like,

that's it. If you knew Linda, you'd be like, because that's Linda. And she was like, so I'm calling

you from my mother's couch. She's like, girl, we're all broke. It's the reason. And I said,

I'm laughing because she's done a laughing. And it was like the first laugh I had in a long time.

But she was like, have you called any of our other friends like glittery? Tiffany, we are all broke.

Everyone lost their job. Everyone's losing their homes. Like you're actually not special. I mean,

it's sad. But you know, join the club basically. I wish you had been in my circle of friends then,

because I needed somebody to tell me that. Yes. You know, we were about to lose the house. And

like really hard because you think you're the only one. I mean, the recession isn't your fault.

Isn't your job isn't your fault? The fact that you were targeted by something someone who had

the intention of scamming you, that's not your fault. And yet you tend to say to yourself, I did.

Yes. Yes. So what did you do? So what one, I realized that so Linda allowed me to shed some of

the shame. Yes. And shame shield solutions. It was like, say that again. I love this shame. I

realized shield solutions. And when I was deep in the shame, I couldn't see all the lessons that I

did know. Tiffany, you've always been a great budgeter. You've always been a great saver.

You've always been a little side hustler. Those parts of you are still there. You, you can't see

them because you're so steeped in the shame. And shame, honestly, loves it when you're by yourself.

Shame is like, don't tell anybody. It's just me and you like stay here with me. The only way to

really to ban a shame, I realized was to give voice to it was to say, I did a thing. And shame is

like, damn, because once you tell someone, then she's going to realize she's not the only one.

Yes. And then we're not the only ones here. And then I have to leave. And so once I told Linda

and Linda's reaction was like, is that it? Then I told someone else and they're like, okay.

And then I realized, oh, I'm really not the only one. And that what I'm going through can actually be

helpful to other people because I'm not coming to them as like polyanna perfect. Right. Because

they're like, be too. So which is all whispering me too. Before you know, the whispers are

loud and we're all like me too. Now let's get to work. Yes. And so what I did first and foremost

is like I said, I took all my credit cards and put it on a balanced transfer card.

Thankfully before the foreclosure and things hit and my credit score would not allow me to do that.

Okay. That was one, two. I was like, I cannot live here with my parents. I mean, I need like

to go. So I then traded my parents house for my sister's couch, you know, which I know everyone

is not able to do. Right. You know, but I was fortunate enough to be able to sleep on her couch.

For a while. And I started to look for side hustles that were aligned with either my degree

or what I had already been employed as, you know, because at the time when you get let go as a

teacher right before the new school year, it's not like a ton of teaching jobs lined up. Yeah.

Because they have to have a teacher in a classroom already. Yes. So it's not like, oh, you know,

like I'm an engineer and engineering jobs are always open. So it's not like they were like, oh,

Tiffany, here's the job. So I'm like, while I wasn't sure if I was going to go back to the classroom.

But in the meantime, I'm like, I can tutor. I can babysit. And so I did a lot of that to try to get

a little money together. And I did something where I had to give my permission to myself that not

everyone's going to be paid. Tiffany, because you don't have it. And so I had to make a list, which I

call my money list of all of my expenses and look at them and say, of this money list, which one

are your health and safety bills, meaning the bills that you have to pay to maintain your health

and your safety. And I was like, Verizon and A U girl. It's not true. But it's like, like,

I have asthma. I was like, you can need that pump. And things that I must have. And so everyone

else, I was scared. But when you have like, I always tell people, get yourself a Linda. So Linda

used to sit next to me on the couch and we would open up mail together. And sometimes I'd be like,

especially if you get like a pink or red envelope, you know, it's like, so then I wouldn't open it.

I would slide it to Linda. She would open it. And she would read it out loud. She'd be like, okay,

this one says, oh, this one's not so bad. You owe. So that helped a lot because I was never

going to open, you know, those letters. Well, can we stop right there? We're going to get to the

five categories of taking control of your financial life in just a minute. But can we just hover

for a second on this moment of opening bills? Yeah. You have helped two million people.

Talk to me about why it is so hard to open your bills or look at your bank statement.

Because you there is an African saying that says fear makes the wolf bigger than he is.

Oh, and so fear is enhancing what's on the other side. It's rarely ever as big as you think.

You know, you're like, I know on the other side of the dorm, the wolf is huge. He's gnarling. He's

falling at the mouth. He's going to attack me. You know, and meanwhile, if you actually open a door,

it's like a wolf puppy that you could have handled. But the longer you wait, that wolf will eventually

grow up and become the thing you're afraid of. Thank you for saying that about paying your bills.

And, you know, here's where I just want to make sure as you're listening to this conversation,

that you realize that this is just part of the story. Yeah. Because Tiffany, you then went from that

unbelievably low moment to becoming one of the most popular financial educators and experts

out there in today's world. And you've helped more than two million people who were in the position

that you were in to then go on to save manage and pay off hundreds of millions of dollars.

I mean, your story alone is a testimonial to how absolutely anyone, regardless of where you are,

can start today to take control of their finances. Yeah. And in that regard, you have five major

categories that you're going to help us master. And you have so many tips, so many tricks, so many

different mindset flips. We all need to know this stuff. We all need to take control of our finances.

And that's exactly what we're going to do when we come back. So don't you dare go anywhere.

Welcome back. It's your friend, Mel. I'm so glad you're still here. I'm so glad that you're

spending time listening to this. There's no doubt in my mind this episode is going to help you create

a better life because you're learning from none other than Tiffany, Aliche. Now, you've probably

seen her on Netflix's Get Smarter with Money series. Maybe you've read her two New York Times

Best Selling books, but just now she has helped two million people who are just like you to save,

manage, and pay off hundreds of millions of dollars in debt. And now, you know what you and I

are going to do. We're going to jump into tips and tricks that you need to know in five specific

categories. And I'm so excited. I'm sitting here on this metaphorical walk shoulder to shoulder

with you. I've already confessed all of the things I've done wrong. I can't wait to learn about

this. And we're going to start with one of these topics that I hate when it comes to money.

This is number one of the five things you're going to help us master Tiffany. And it is budget.

Yes. It's in your name. Budget needs to. I hate that word budget. I hate that word budget. I feel

like budget is a punishment. It's a diet. I don't want to be on a budget, Tiffany. What do I need to

do? Why do we need a budget? And let's talk budget. So I want you to think about a budget the way

what I say is like how you think about like your mom, right? So you've got three kids, right? Yeah.

And so if like say your son's like, oh, when he's little, you know, mom, can I have dessert? You'd

say yes after you have dinner. Or if your daughter says, mom, can I go outside to play? Yes,

when you do your homework, you know, or, you know, mom, can we go on vacation? Yes. If we lower this,

the, you know, the light bill. So your budget is like your mom. She's there to say yes,

when, if, after. So it's really a say yes plan, but one that's safely implemented so you can

maintain the thing that you want, right? So you could call a money list. That's what I usually

start with because people hate that name. I like that name. Money list. What does a money list mean?

A budget. Okay. I love this reframe because I hear the word budget and I hear no in restriction.

And you're saying no, that the budget is how you say yes to what's important to you. Yes.

That it's not there actually to tell me no, it's there to find the yes in the safest way possible.

So for somebody hearing you say that and they're like, but I've never made a budget or

I've never stopped doing. I don't know what my budget should be. Like where do you begin?

Step one is to write everything down just the words of what do I spend money on? Don't think

about the month just in general. So it's like, oh, the kids, oh, credit card, oh, grooming going out.

Like just I want you to just write the words. Don't think about the money. Just words. Okay.

So that's first part. Step one. Yes. Then step two is now you say these words on my money list,

how much am I spending approximately monthly? Some stuff you'll know like your mortgage or your rent.

Some stuff you might not be sure. Go pull out your bank statement and see on average the last

few months how much you're spending on groceries or eating out or groom or electricity or water.

Yes. Or any of those things you don't even really think, oh my god, I got that bill.

Exactly. So then that's within a month frame on average, right? So that's step two. Okay.

Then step three is to write down how much you make on average every month from all of your areas.

So maybe you get Alamone, maybe you get child support, maybe you have a job, whatever that is,

how much are you making monthly and you add up step four, you add up how much you're spending monthly

and subtract it from how much you're making monthly. I call that the tears and tissue step

because usually people get there and they're like, can I have a tissue?

And should you do this with a friend? Yes. We call Linda. Yes. Okay. Get yourself a Linda.

Like so literally. So I when I used to do one on ones, we would do all of that and people

would be like, okay, and then I would literally just grab a box of tissues and just put it here

because I'm like, it's about the borderline. They added up. I remember it was a nurse.

I'll never forget. I'll call her B and I came to her house and it was beautiful condo.

And so we did that step and she started crying and then I started crying because baby,

I'm a baby. And she was just like, I didn't realize how much over I was spending. And she said,

it's a matter of fact, I can't even afford the air conditioning. So I'm going to turn it off.

And I was like, yay, yes. So we sat with the fan on because she just turned on the air conditioning

because I was coming over. So I was like, turn off the AC. A fan is fine. That tears and tissue step

allows you to see what do you need to do now. And so let's say you've done that, right? And you've

made the money list and you see what's coming in and what's coming out here like faced with

the reality. Yeah. Tears and tissues. Yes. And you see that you are outspending every month.

What's actually coming in? What is the next step? The next step is I want you to categorize your

expenses before you get to slash and dash, you know, because that's what people want to do. I won't

need that. I won't. Yeah. I'm never going to eat again. I'm never going to turn the lights on

in the sounds. Get the candles. So I'm like categorize your expenses into three categories. One,

I want you to write a B next to all the bills on your list. So bills are if you don't pay it,

someone's going to come knocking on your door and say, where's my money, right? Yeah.

So put a B next to all those things and give me an example. I know that sounds like a basic

question, but is your mortgage a bill? Yes. Mortgage is a bill rent, car note,

your credit card student loans. So if you don't pay, you're likely to be sued. Think about that.

Gotcha. Like when you're like standing at Walmart or before and you're like, yeah,

like 10% off this and then you're like, oh, wait, that's a credit card. Yes, that's a bill.

Mm-hmm. Got. Okay. B next to all your bills. Okay. And then and those are really like fixed

expenses. So that way you understand, right? And then I want you to put a U in front of any

beam that fluctuates based upon your usage. Oh, I love that. So I call these like the U stands for

usage or utility. So your student loan does not have a U. Your mortgage or rent does not have a U.

But the water, water electricity. So your usage, yes, the data on your phone. Yes. And so it's

important to separate those two because I want you to, you'll see that I want you to understand

the level of control you have on these expenses. And whatever is not a B or UB, everything else is a C,

C stands for cash or choice, meaning that you have full choice of how you spend here.

So grooming might be leftover, groceries might be leftover. How much eating out with friends?

Yes. And so entertainment. Yeah. And so now before you get to slashing,

I want you to ask yourself, where's most of your money going? For many people, most of their money

might be going to the B's and UB's. But for some people is actually all the C's. So then I,

then we have to identify, you have a don't make enough issue or spend too much issue. And so if most

of your money is going to the B's and UB's, you might not make enough. So it's not about slashing

because it's your bills, you know, but if most of your money is going to your C's, your choices

and your cash expenses, then you probably have a spend too much issue. So now we need to slash.

Yes. You know, because entertainment and grocery and all those things for your money is going.

Because what I find is that frugal people want to get more frugal when things are tied.

I'm like, that's not the answer. Right. You know, that instead, I want you to put your energy

to learning how to earn more if all of your money is going to your bills. Because we're,

we're cutting the mortgage. What are we cutting? That's true. You know, one of the things that I

worry about, and I'd be curious to hear your perspective, is that you and I both had the experience

of being in college and it's that opening week and literally at the opening registration fair,

there were banks with credit card tables to get your Snickers bar when you sign up for one and

then it's free money. But I worry a lot about the fact that in today's world, particularly

for people who are in their 20s and 30s, that social media has become like shopping with a click.

And you and I had to leave our house to Ghostfend money back in the day. And when I think about

TikTok or Instagram, every other fricking suggested thing has a shop now. And stuff gets sent to your

house. And have you seen a big increase because you've been doing this for a while in people

in the spending category that spending has gotten so easy because of social media. It's always in

your face. You always see what you're missing out on. There's an influencer that has the product

for free who's like, this changed my life. Oh, quick, quick, it's 11 30 at night. So do you see

a spike in this or is it absolutely overconsumption is the new way? We all have so much that we don't

need. I mean, even I sometimes I'm like, Tiffany, you do not need like another like you don't even

vacuum. But that one is so cool. You know, and I'm like, like this is influence from who I follow,

who I love her because so aesthetically, please. Yes. But you know, the ones that we're like,

everything the kitchen is aesthetically pleasing. Yes, this is these Amazon stops. Like,

I can click through to my Amazon thing. So I got the free. But I'm going to pick money on you,

buy it. A container for the container. Yes. Like, well, who wants zero out of a cereal box?

We want to eat the out of a aesthetically pleasing glass container. Yes.

Like, why didn't it aesthetically pleasing you don't? Yes. You know, so it is really hard. So

that's why I don't believe in leaning so heavily on discipline when it comes to financial,

like stick to it. It's, you know, what do you believe in that I believe automation, automation,

automation? That's the new discipline that if we can put systems and automations in place,

it will help to safeguard you because you're human. Yeah. So we're not here to fight against your

humaneness, right? You know, I'm like for budgeting, for example, I do this thing where I call it

budget without a budget. You go to HR, you say, Hey, HR or pay room, I want to split my money before

I get my money. And so what that looks like is is that and most places can do this because I'm not

a huge company and we're capable. There are four counts to checking to savings. Wait, so everybody

needs four accounts. Ideally, give or take. I mean, it depends on where you are, but this is,

this is the ideal to checking to savings. So checking one is kind of like your spending account.

This is attached to your debit card, right? So most people have this account, but everything just

gets dumped there. Yes. You know, so that's the account you keep it. The second account is a

checking account, which is your bills account. And so I want you to separate your bill money from

your spending money. And does it cost money to have two different checking accounts with your bank?

Well, the good thing is if you have direct deposit until those most banks will wave that fee.

So that's why you're going to do it from like I have payroll direct deposit into those accounts.

Oh, so you at your company level. Yes. You basically say,

X percent of my paycheck is going to go into checking account number one.

Yes, first for my bills are yeah, and are spending. Yeah. And then the other

percentage. And do you have a particular percentage in mind? Well, the good thing is people ask me

though, all the time, I'm like, well, we don't have to guess money. List is right there saying,

hello, we know how much you need to put in here. Be kind of embarrassing to walk into HR. And be

like, um, could you put $1500 in checking account one and $10?

Usually it's a form. So you don't have to tell all your bills. Okay. And so you feel, but still,

you can see how that then creates an automation. Mm-hmm. That helps you stay in the lane. Yes.

So the key is with that checking account, the second one, you are going to call the bank and say,

I do not want a debit card. I did not know that you could just opt out of a debit card. You can.

But what do I do if I need cash? Because you have your spending account. Because why are you

swiping when you're building money? Because I don't need a debit card. Now for the bills account.

The bills account. Yes. I've never had two checking accounts. Yeah. Okay. I'm sitting here thinking,

my freaking money goes right into that thing. Yes. So if you that way, it keeps your bills account.

This is why I said you don't need as much discipline. Oh, I am actually going to do this. Yeah.

I think this is so empowering because I have had such the philosophy of just put your head down.

Work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work. And as long as there's balance

in there, we're okay. Yeah. So I like to separate it because I'm like, I know that when I'm at target,

because it's my favorite. I'm swiping that I know one thing. I'm not swiping my bill money

because this debit card is not attached to my bills account. I put the money into the bills account.

And if you have enough, you can automate your bills. And if not, you could certainly manually pay

them. You could just say every two weeks, I'll sit down and manually pay my bills. I love this

advice. You're so good at what you do. The wonder you've helped millions and millions and

millions of people. And remember the other two savings, I want you to put those savings account

not at your regular brick and mortar bank because they're going to pay you point zero zero zero zero zero

okay. Where do we put our savings? And why do we need two savings accounts? Well, I like again,

because I want you to separate so you can see. Okay. You know, and so this is like that kind of like

what I said, automate, automate, automate, you don't have to be as disciplined. Right. So savings

one at a high yield savings account. Typically these are online only banks, you know, they pay

right now currently may for for percent a little bit more. And so you're going to have one.

You said online only bank. I had a visceral reaction. Okay. Because I immediately thought about

the dude that scammed you out of money for some reason. You know, I'm like, how do you know

that an online bank is a reputable bank to put your money in because that's the FDIC in short.

FDIC in general. Yeah. So how would you know that because everybody can copy that little icon? So no,

because that would be against, I mean, I mean, if they want to go to like under the jail,

yes, federal government. Okay. So you could honestly, a Google search, there are like, we're also

going to link everybody. You know, our resources are robust. And today there will be a lot of

information. Yes. From the Bajanista. Yes. And Tiffany will have stuff so that you can go to

her resources and understand what's reputable. What's not. And so I list the budget. So with

with both of my books, kick of money and made hole, I list some of the banks that I like.

You know what else I love about this approach? Because you mentioned Target and you know,

we have a huge global audience. So just think about your favorite even place where you're going to

pick up your prescriptions or your local kind of pharmacy type store. When I walk in there,

it's a ziff. I have walked on to a game show. This was even when I had no freaking money.

And it's like, you walk through the doors and I'm like, Oh, I feel like I need some hair

boom. Remember band things. And you know, I need those little cotton things. Yes. I that should

in my drawers. Like, I don't know why I there's something about the psychology of that. So in your

model, when you do your money list and the bees and the use, and I walk in there and I don't have

a debit card. I've only got the debit card for what I can spend. Yes. Because all your money is

literally world away someplace else. You have a savings account for emergencies. You have a

savings account for goals. I want to buy a house, I want to invest in the market. We're going to

separate them because you don't want to spend your emergencies on goals. That's your emergency

account is like your seat belt, you know, like your safety belt. Yeah. And so that's why you have

the two savings and you let it earn interest. So if you have those four accounts, you use your

money list to figure out how much money you want to place into those four accounts. Then all you

have to worry about is, especially if everything's automated, the money lands, it splits before you

get it, bills pay themselves, savings is safe. And when I go swiping, it's not my savings,

it's not my emergency savings, it's not my bill money. So I can rest assured with that,

I have to be so disciplined because I just set it up one time. And so it's just one of my

favorite ways to budget without budgeting like the hardcore, you know, my journal and a diary and

I'm not doing all that. Yes. Yes. You do it once, set it and forget it. And now it's aligned with

what you want. Do you have a guideline in terms of when somebody's making their money list, we got

the fees, we got the use, we got the C's, we've now got our four different bank accounts, the two

checking, the two savings. So if you follow all this advice and you kind of look at what it costs

for you to pay for your life, you know, all of the stuff that's going out and all of these

categories you've just taught us about, what do you think the percentage should be if you look at

the income coming in, like what percentage is your day to day expenses? So I would say ideally,

ideally, ideally, if you can live off of 70% of your income, that's ideal. Like you might

be at 99, that's okay. But this is what you're working toward. No more than 70%.

Okay. Obviously, you make more, it might be even lower. Like I think at this point, I might live

off of 20 or 30%. Okay. At one point, I was living off of 200%. Right. You know, but 70%.

Right. You know, seven years. You were in. Yeah. Meaning you were spending more. Yes.

Yes. Yes. You know, so this is not shame. This is just like I'm working toward this. This is

what your ideal is. Okay. So 70%. So that would be what's in your spending account and what's in

your bills account, that would equate for 70% because that's living off of money. You know,

I love that you just offered up though this hope because what you just said to somebody who is in

the place that you and I have both been in, which is your life costs way more than you make.

And you are also dealing with a mountain of debt that there is hope for you. So if you make

this money list, which is step one, your bees, your use your seas, and you then look at it and

you're like, Oh, I'm screwed. What Tiffany is saying to you is that the goal is to move from

a negative position to a position where 70% of what's coming in covers your life. Yes.

And the other 30% goes to savings and investing and, mm-hmm. Awesome. Yeah. I cannot wait to go home

make a money list. Now, there are four other topics, Tiffany, that you're going to help us master.

And so I don't want you listening to us to go anywhere. You're about to learn her amazing tips

to increase your credit score. You're learning about something that Tiffany calls dream-scaping,

which is a critical part of you creating a plan and finding hope and enthusiasm to take all these

advice and apply it. Mm-hmm. And what I love about Tiffany's approach, and I'm sure you're loving it

too, is you're going to hear her say, you don't need discipline. You just need to understand these

tricks. Stay with us.

Welcome back. It's your friend Mal. We are so glad that you're here. And by we, I mean me and Tiffany

Aliche, she's also known as the budget Nista. You're following in love with her as you listen to her.

She's been featured on Netflix. She's a New York Times bestseller and more importantly,

her genius and you're experiencing it right now. She's helped two million people save manage and

pay off hundreds of millions of dollars in debt. And here she is showing up here for you, giving you

relatable world-class strategies in the five key areas that you need to understand when it comes to

taking control of money. So you and I have covered budget with Tiffany. There are four more to go. And up

next, debt. What do you do when you go through the money list and what you see is a lot of debt?

What are the steps? Well, for debt, you have to, that's another kind of like list. So I just call it,

just honestly, like the debt list. We have to just get a picture like what's happening here? Yes.

Who do you owe? This is what's going to go on your debt list. Who do you owe? How much do you owe?

When does it do? What's the interest rate? What's the status? I know. This is what you want to have.

You're a bestie of bettos. Here we go. I figured out my friend, Jodie. Jodie, pull up her chair. Let's go.

Exactly. So yeah, so you because you have to get a pay. This is actually, sometimes you can be a

little harder than the money list. Oh, I would think so. Because I'm listening to you. I'm thinking to

myself, I haven't even done this for myself. Yeah. To see like, who do I owe? Yeah. Like, what is

my mortgage right now? And how many more years is it going to be? And what are like, what is the

car loan that I have? And how many more years is it? And what is the interest rate? Yeah. So just

knowing like what those things are. And like I said, don't do it alone. You can literally have a party.

You could be like, you know, we're not spending money. There's no ice cream. There's not

anything. It's a potluck, you know, it's like, you can just be like, where are you and a group of friends

to sit down and say, we're going to do our debt list. You know, and so just knowing where you are.

So now you just start to prioritize who's getting paid and when. So I have a few methods that I

really like. Let's talk about one. This is no ball method. Okay. And so this is when you paid the

lowest balance debt first. So you're going to look at all of your debt and light it up from lowest

balance at you. Oh, okay. Right. Like and then to the highest like debt that you owe. Okay. And if

you're someone who is like emotionally charged by your debt and need you to have early success.

Yes. You're going to pay the minimum to everybody else. But that lowest bill is going to get the

bulk of the money that you have available. And you're going to know what that is. This is why that

money list is so important. Right. We're not going to get the money. Let's look at the money list.

Right. How are you making a little more right now? Are you able to spend a little less that money

that you're able to squeeze from your budget? It's going to go to that lowest debt. So let's just say

you owe $200 to granny. Yeah. You know, and you're giving her a hundred bucks a month. Right. So

now it's like, okay, that hundred bucks a month now rolls over like a snowball. Yes. Now that

that debts paid to grant. Yes. And now we go to the next. Yes. The next that gets its minimum,

which was already getting, but it gets that lowest debts minimum that the first one and that extra

money from your from your your money list. So now all of a sudden it's getting like three payments

and one. So you're cooking with Greece now. You know, and when that's paid off, you roll over that

full amount to the third. And what's so great is as the snowball rose down the hill, it collects

snow minimums along the way. So by the time you get to the biggest debt, you have the most amount

of money, but it didn't actually take any additional money out of your budget because you've collected

minimums that you were already paying. Oh, so I'm going to try to translate that. So if your credit

card bill has a minimum of $50. Yes. And you've just been paying the 50 and paying the 50. That

means you're not really chipping away at the at the balance. So as you use this method and you

get the lowest paid off, you don't have to pay that $50 anymore. Yeah. And then you go to the next

one. Well, you take that 50 from that goes to the next one. Got you. And so you've accumulated all

these 50s. Yeah. By the time you get to the big one, you might have 200 extra dollars in the

top of the minute. Yes. Yeah. So that doesn't actually hurt your you're not coming out of pocket

anymore because you've been paying all these minimums. Yes. You know. And so it's a great way for

people who need that early success and don't want to tackle the big bill right away.

Amazing. So that's the snowball method. The avalanche method is when you're like, forget all that.

I'm logical. I want to attack the debt with the highest interest rate, the most expensive debt first

because interest rate is the fee you pay for what you own. Okay. So the more you owe, the more the

interest rate is going to affect what you have to pay. So you're going to line your debt up from

the highest interest rate. Yep. To the lowest interest rate first. And you're going to attack

highest interest rate that first. Okay. So there's snowball avalanche and I call this the tsunami

method is this is for people who really get emotionally overwhelmed and you line up your debt

by how it affects you emotionally. Oh, you know, because let's honor the fact that some of us

really need to navigate from that place. Like which debt is causing you the most stress.

It's like the tsunami is coming over you and it's like I have to pay my grandmother back

because I feel so bad. And then next it's really my mortgage and then next it's this bike that I

bought and then you see what I mean. So with that method, you're lining up the debt from most

stressful to least stressful and paying it off in that order. But either way, you're collecting the

minimums amount along the way. You pay off the debt, you roll over their full payment to the next

one. Pay off that debt, roll over all those payments to the next one. So that still stays the same.

It's just the order that it depends on like what you need in order to be successful.

We must have similar grammars because I wouldn't want to have to face my grandmother either.

They're knocking on the door complaining again at the dinner table. So you have this concept

that I absolutely love that was budget that we've talked about. We've now covered debt. The

third concept that you talk about is saving. Yes. How do you save? Especially if you don't feel like

you have money to save because you are just making the ends meet or not even. And sometimes you can't.

I don't know if people don't want to say that but I'm like I remember when I was like I had a savings

account because it was free but that account was like hello. Is it me? It's like it's not

anything. I mean because that's life sometimes. Yeah. And I just remember but I opened it because

sometimes you do a theme not for where you are currently before where you want to go. There you go.

And so I opened up the savings account because they're typically free and I said one day I'll be

able to put something into you. And so for the first year or so when I was paying down all that credit

card debt and like making little money here and then the budget needs to be starting to do a little

better. And I was like I remember I was able to save five dollars a month and I put it in there

not for the five but five was proof if I could do five one day I'll do 10. I could do 10 one

one. One day I'll do 100. I could do 100 one day I'll do a thousand. And so it was a placeholder

for that one day. Yeah. But so in the beginning it's okay to acknowledge that you might have these

four accounts and those two stay empty for a while. Yeah. Because there's not enough money. I

love that you said that because I can absolutely remember years of my life where there was a savings

account attached to my checking account. I could not afford to put anything in there. It would

literally be like 27 cents. And I made friends with the tellers. And so when you kind of get that

they they penalize you forever. And I'll just wait for you. I don't know problem. But just seeing that

still someday. Yes someday. Someday. I will get it in there someday. Dream-scaping. Okay. Let's talk

about dreams. What is dreamscaping? So this is where I totally made up as preschool teachers are

act to do. And I just thought like you know landscaping this is when you design the outside of your

home to be beautiful and aesthetically pleasing. And so I'm like well why can't we do that with our

dreams? Why can't I dream-scaping means that like I think of the most beautiful aesthetically pleasing

big expansive life that I want to live. And I was a big daydreamer when I was a kid. So I got like

I was a kid in class talks too much and daydreams. And so I but I love daydreamer because it allows me to

like really like go into the future and say this is what life is going to look like for me.

Live there for a little bit and then bring back bring back that feeling here and it says okay

this is what you need to do for that to be life. Okay. And so with dream-scaping I identify a time

in the future that what I want to see. So maybe it's the December 31st version of yourself this year.

Yes. Maybe it's you five years from now, ten years from now, whatever that is. And then I ask

myself holistically how do I want life to go? Not financially holistically. Like how long do I

want my hair to be? Like what do I want to live? What do I want to drive? You know what kind of food

am I into? Like I just imagining my full complete life. Where have I traveled to? Yeah. You know

on that kind of thing. And so that's the second part of dream-scaping is I like really dreaming like

your full life. Yeah. Then the third part is to find a guide asking for help. So if there's someone

who there's part of your dream that they're living it, you know maybe they're on social media and

you follow their social media. You know do they do podcast interviews? Do they have a book that's

come out? Do you know them personally? Like don't call this alone. Why? You know the fastest way

from where you are to where you want to be usually is through someone else. Right. So I'm literally

studying like oh I love the way Mel does that. Okay. So I'm just I'm going to read all the things

you've written and watch all your shows and and listen to all your podcasts. So I can get a guide

from you about what does that look like? And then fourth I create a plan based upon what I've learned

about this is where I want to be. This is what I've learned from Mel of how she got there. Let me

create a plan that's focused but flexible because I'm not you. So it's like you know there's like

this framework there. Yeah. But a lot of flexibility in there like oh well Mel did this but I'm going

to do it like this. But right you know that's why I create this plan. But as I work the plan the last

and to me one of the most important things is then find community that like it's so big for me.

I started the budget these days because if not for Linda where would I be? You know that like

I don't care if community is one person or a thousand people or two million people. Yeah.

Find community and work the plan within that community. Yeah. So you can have accountability.

You can have people to cheer you on in a place to vent and say you're scared. You know and to

see yourself and other people. So if you do those five things that's the five steps to dream

escaping. Well the other piece that's powerful about that is when I look at all of your advice.

It is empowering you to take your emotions out of it and to align the actions that you're taking

with the kind of person that you want to become. Yes. I love that. You're a thing to yourself. So

this is something I remember I learned in therapy when I was talking to my therapist. She said

like I've never smoked. I have asthma so I'm like I do know I want to take myself out of here.

And so she said Tiffany do you consider yourself like a non-smoker? And I was like no because

it doesn't even resonate because I just don't smoke. That's just not part of like who I am.

So I don't even associate smoke or non-smoker. I've just never anybody who smoked because I align

with I am who I say I am. And so like that should be the aim for all that we do.

So it's not like oh am I an overspender or underspender? It's like well no you're just

you aligned with this is I show up I am who I say I am that my goal is to be the person who I'm

not worried about over-underspending. I spend in a way that's aligned with the way the life

that I want to live. Do you see what I mean? Not exactly. I do. And I feel very empowered as I'm

listening to you about going and creating a money list and going and doing the debt list. And

just really getting a very clear picture for myself for myself so that I can decide in the

dreamscape model well what is the story I tell about myself to myself in this category?

Yes. Because clearly if I wanted to get good with money then I've got the expert right here

and I follow your steps and I can easily learn it. And so can you as you're listening to this?

You have this concept that I freaking love about paying yourself first. What does that mean?

So that means I want you to ask yourself four questions before you spend any money.

And those questions are do I need it? No. Do I love it? Yes. Do I like it? Do I want it? So

need it? Love it? Like it wanted. And so they show you that needs are most important.

Okay. Then your loves, then your likes, then your wants. And so when I'm spending money

those are the quadrants. I try to stay on the half of needs and loves. So a need is something

you must have in order to be okay. So bills. Yep. Those UBs and Bs those are your needs.

Yes. You know. Right? Now loves are different. Loves are something that is going to bring you joy

over a year from now. You know. And so that's different for everyone. For some people it is

that haircut. For some people it is you know that amazing dinner. Yeah. For some people it's

travel. For some people it is that dress. So there's no judgment there just a year from now.

Well this thing still generate joy for me. So deep joy are the things that are the things that we

love. Yeah. And then likes which is next on temporary joy. So that's something about six months from

now. Yeah. I go still cute. I remember. Yeah. You know, but a year later you might be like wait,

where is that shirt that I had? You know. Yeah. And then wants are literally the opposite. Just

Instagramfication. Yes. That's the shop now on Instagram. Yes. So when you are spending money

I'm not here to tell myself no. So I, for example, this is a what I always travel. But this year

in particular I really want to go. I've never been to Johannesburg and I want to go. Oh yeah.

And there's this like really cute travel group. There's like 15 women and it's like Johannesburg

and then Mimia, Botswana. That's a great. Right. And so it's not a little bit of money obviously

as you can imagine. And so when I was deciding whether or not to do it I said Tiffany is this a need.

Now it's not food shelter clothing order. Is this a love? Will you remember this trip a year

from now? I said apps of freaking Lutely. And then of course you look at your budget. Can it allow

it? You know. So what that means is that if I don't have enough of that like your wants,

what? Right. Because if I get another stink and T-shirt target. Like what are we talking about?

Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. I think everybody even when you're struggling. Yes.

Even when you're struggling. I think most of us can look around whatever room we're sitting in

in our apartment and be like, I have too much stuff. Yes. Why am I? And I do think that there is

this rise in shopping and consumerism because you don't have to leave your house. Yes.

You do not need to leave your house. They pull up and drop it on your doorstep. Yes.

And you just constantly it's like pulling the the the the the the the the the I'm if you're watching

us on YouTube you see me doing it. But it's like you're at a slot machine. Yes. Full the lever.

Pull. But if you want to play yourself first then you try as much as possible to stay in the much

in the need and the love category. I love that because that means your money is meaningfully spent.

You know what I mean? Yes. Like meaningfully. So I'm not here to tell myself no I'm here to say

as yes as much as possible to my needs and my love. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. What is your

biggest hot take on saving money? My biggest hot take on saving money is there is a cap for how much

you should save like you can actually over save what? Yes. I've been an over saver where I had so

much money saved because there is a point where it's like no more than a year's worth of emergency

savings is necessary for savings. I mean I want to talk about investing. You're just trying about

saving. Yes. Okay. Great. So like you know like depending so my mom was a nurse before she retired.

Yep. Right. So three months was enough for her. You know my sister's an engineer six months is fine.

Me as an entrepreneur I feel more comfortable with the year but anything above that you're actually

losing money because savings is not really growing. Oh. You know it should be put to work. The purpose of

I want people it's because people get mad about savings. They're like I want all my money to be put

to work but every belt is not meant to be a fashion Gucci belt. Some belts are safety belts. It's

not for fashion. That's right. Your car. Yes. Has a buckle belt in it. I'm sorry it's not

modified. It's not modified. Yes. Right. The purpose the intention is for safety and that money

although it'd be nice if savings grew astronomically that money is just for safety. I love that.

And then the excess that no more than a year should be put to work absolutely for some people the

excess is anything above three months. Some people anything above six months. I say no more than a year.

So too much savings is actually detrimental. There's like the law of diminishing returns. One glass

of water so good for you. Four glasses so great. 40 you're going to drown. Yes. That is that's

the first time I've ever heard that. And I think for those of us that has lost your money or nearly

lost your house or like you don't ever want to be in that. And so I probably have too much in terms

of savings but it's just sitting somewhere where the market can't affect it. The housing recession

can't affect it. But it's not doing it. And money that's not being put to work is losing.

Okay. So you're calling me a loser? No. Let's say so we've covered budget debt savings.

And now let's talk about number four which is credit. Okay. And this is a hugely popular topic

with your audience with everybody. How can you improve your credit score? So credit if your

issue is credit. Congratulations. It's the easiest thing to fix. So I want you to just

lose that because credit is the thing that people worry about the most. Yes. But quite honestly

it's the easiest to fix. Credit is tips and tricks. Oh my god. That's a tips and tricks.

Tips and tricks. Tips and tricks. So first thing to understand that there are there are multiple

categories that affect your credit. It's 35% of your score is what your payment history is.

Okay. Right. And so like do pay the people on time. Do you play at least a minimum? Well then

35% of your score you're good. 30% of your score is going to be amount owed. So get your payments

down. Everybody that would be the debt list. Yes. Yes. So if those two things alone is 65% of your

score. So if you just like concentrate on getting your debt down and if you automate that bills

accounts. Do you see how it all comes together? Yes I do. Yeah. So automate that bills account

65% of your scores being positively affected. There's other things to consider with your score

is they look at length of credit history. Okay. Right. So length of credit history is just

how long have you had access to credit and have you been using it? Now this is important because

think about like so you said your your your your son is 17. Is he driving? He's eight. Yes.

Oh yes he's driving. Right. So if your son said, oh mom can I borrow your car? I've never been

an accident. You know what? Interesting because you just started right and then let's just say like

you have these siblings. Do I? Yeah. Yeah. I have a brother. So your brother says,

says can I borrow your car? Yeah. I've never been an accident. So you've got two drivers.

Never been an accident. One just got their license. One that's had it for years. It's not the same.

It's the same for credit. Length of credit history says like, yeah. So you might not have any bad

marks on your credit, but you're so inexperienced you are a bad driver because you have not driven much.

Got it. Yeah. So they call it a thin file when you have hardly any credit. So no credit is bad credit.

Got you. Just like no driving experience is a bad driver. Gotcha. So you have three ways that you

can boost your credit score pretty quickly, like even up to 100 points. What else? Yeah. So my

favorite way is I learned this from like a debt lawyer. Okay. He was like, because after I lost

everything in my credit score, yes. I learned embarrassing way. Like I was teaching like classes

because I told you I was like, as I think my way and I'm going to teach. Yes. My credit score at

one point was 802. So in class, I was showing people how to look up your credit score. So I look

up mind thinking clearly it's still made hundreds. It was a 530. A room full of people. I'm looking

and I was like, luckily it said like T. Elite and I have a system in Tracy. I was like, I locked

into Tracy's account. Let me just. Can you imagine? I was like, wait, is that a five? And then

when I was like, anyway, let's talk about it. I had no idea because I'd not checked. So I was like,

how do I raise this 530 because I had an active foreclosure because I lost my house. Yes. I had

that credit card debt that was just mounting. Yes. From the scam. Oh my gosh. So one of the

best things to do is he said, pay off a credit card in full every month. But like, so then I realized

like, so he said, there's something about paying off a debt in full that makes the credit

burrow say, yay. So think about your credit score as your GPA, your grade point average. Okay. It's

an average of your choices and financial choices. Yeah. Think about the credit bureaus as your teachers.

They give you your grade. Yeah. And think about the credit report as your transcript. It has your

grade. But like all the other like classes and things like the real in depth of what you've done

with your life. Okay. Yeah. And so if you want the credit bureaus to teachers to give you like

really great grades, they love to see an A every month. And A plus and credit is when you pay off a

debt in full. And so you're talking like if we were to go the method and look at and you line up

all your debt and you look at the one with the lowest balance, paying off that lowest balance is

like, yep, just but it'll give you a, but just that A that one month. But we want to get an A

every month. Okay. And so I like to get a credit card with zero balance or pay one off to zero

balance. And then I look at my money list and say, what is my least expensive reoccurring payment?

Is it Spotify? Is it Apple? Is it Netflix? No more than 25 bucks a month. And I say, hey,

Apple or Spotify or whatever. Actually, don't go to the bills account. Like you used to, I'm going to

put a credit card in the middle of that equation. And you're going to pay that every month. Yes.

So they're seeing a off to zero. Yes. And every month, like the credit bureaus are like,

Hey, hey, hey. And I'm like, so at the end of like, hey, hey, hey, hey, now just song.

Because it's five five two. Oh my god. I love that. So what I did because I was like at the time,

I had these two cards, I did it with two cards. And so I went from a five 30 to a seven 50 in one

year, which doesn't sound like a like as you can raise your credit. It sounds like a lot,

especially with an active foreclosure. Yes. And especially if you're in that zone where you're like,

I'm trying to put groceries on the table. How the hell am I going to raise my credit? Yes.

I got to, I got to get to the store and buy some chicken. I'm not worried about all this other

stuff. But you're basically saying any of those odd, you can automate the payment this way.

Yes. And have it serve like this double duty for you. There you go. If you do that, that was

tremendous. Wow. Yes. Wow. Wow. Wow. Any other tips in terms of boost and credit score.

So another tip is just to like, it's, remember I said, not a 30% or 35% of your score is payment

history. Yes. And so one of the best ways to do it is to just automate your bills from your

bills account. Because you don't, that's the payment history. And so this is only though,

because not everyone makes enough to cover their bills. This is for those people who make enough to

cover your monthly bills. But it seems like so little, but not being late and just having them

automatically paid 35% of your score, which is huge. So if you do those things, like I said,

credit is tips and tricks. It's actually not discipline. Oh, I love that. All right. Let's talk

about the fifth thing we need to master, which is how do you increase your money? So best way to

start to increase your money is where you currently work. You know, okay. I would be looking like,

am I paid? Like, let's look at what Glassdoor is talking about. Yeah. You know, but you have to

keep in mind not just your role, but the size of company. I promise you the, the janitor at Facebook

is making more than the janitor at your local high school. Yes. You know, so, so one, understanding

the size of your company, but also, you know, many women, especially are underpaid. And so before

you ask for money, create something that my sister calls the go me file, that's your brag book.

And so whenever she does something at the company, she writes it down. She says, go me.

And so ideally, the go me things on your list are ways that you made the company money.

Yes. You can quantify or save the company money. Yes. She's like, if you can't quantify it,

figure out how to quantify it. Yes. You know, and then that way, when you go and you sit with your

manager or boss or whatever and you're having your review, you're not actually asking for a raise,

you're asking for a correction to salary because I made the company $100,000 last year.

Well, I saved the company $30,000, so I'm asking for this 2% raise. I mean, you know, I'm undervaluing

myself. Look at the value that I place. Yes. It's so starting there is a place. And this is really

backed up by research. So especially for women and any person of color, that the number one thing

that will determine your ability to make more money or your ability to get a promotion is whether

or not you make your contributions known. Yes. And so that go me list is a critical habit because

you're going to forget. Yes. And without that, you don't have the ability to really explain why.

Yes. Because I agree with you. Like, there is a lot of advice out there. Like ask your

value, look at glass store. But if you can't make the case, yes. You're just making a threat. Yes.

That's it. I call it. This is what I tell my mentees. I call it illustrating your Oprah.

And so I like Oprah, right, is a type of like if right now in this room, we said, hey, if we could

gather, you know, $300,000, Oprah is going to showcase all of us on her social media,

open up her rolodex and and help to go see our deals. Like we would gather that 300,000 so quickly.

Because we know that it's worth right. Hundreds of millions of dollars, right? Because we know

the value of Oprah is so obvious that it's just illustrated in the way she navigates. And so

whenever I'm not getting paid as much as I want as a speaker or someone trying to undervalue me,

I ask myself, have you illustrated your Oprah? Have you illustrated your value in such an

obvious overwhelming way that they're like, oh, we will find the money. Yes. And I think this is

so important that we just take a minute and highlight this because the tendency is to be angry

at the employer or the client that you're offering a service for that they didn't see my value.

No, no, no, no, no, no, you didn't see your value. You didn't actually make the case.

And you did not present yourself or the value you provide. Yeah. If you are somebody that offers

a service, you are a coach, you're a real estate agent, you cut hair, you walk dogs.

That is a business. Yeah. Do not give that shit to your friends for free. Yeah. Because you will

start to resent them. Yeah. For them wanting to, for, you know, them kind of taking you for granted.

Yeah. You're taking yourself for granted. Yeah. So people are going to ask, people are going to

assume you cannot do that with yourself. But this is about you understanding your value. Yeah. So

in terms of somebody who's listening and they're like, okay, I can't quit my job. Yeah. I

advocated and they gave me a small amount, but it's not enough. You also talk a lot about, well,

what else can you do? Is there side hustles? You mentioned it as part of your story. This has

always been part of my story on the side as I was climbing out of debt. I will do anything

well within limits. Yeah. I mean. So what are some of your favorite side hustles that you

recommend for folks that are like, okay, I, I don't need to go out on the weekend. If I'm working

my side hustle, I'm both making money and I'm not consuming and spending more money. So what are

some side hustles that you like? Well, one, I say before, like, they're not a specific one, but I

before looking like externally, ask yourself, one, do I have a degree of certification in something?

Because one, it means that you'll get to get paid more for that thing. You know, it's like,

oh, my teacher, like, who doesn't want a preschool teacher babysitting? I don't have to get regular

pay. Yeah. I can increase my pain. And then two, what do you do at your current job? So there's

not this additional learning curve. Oh, that's huge because now unless you're starting a business,

that's different. But a side hustle, if I'm just here for the money, then I'm not trying to learn

anything new. Like, I just want to be able to just do it. And so for me, tutoring and babysitting

was so perfect because autopilot, I can tutor, I teach all day, you know, when I'm teaching preschool,

babysitting, the kids love me. I'm such a, you know, this is what I can do. And so that was a

perfect side hustle for me, you know? And so say if you were like, I don't know, like a, maybe you work

as a home health aid or something like that or, you know, maybe organization is something,

you're like, you know, I'm already helping people in their home get their things together.

And I love organizing, organizing, I can do that, you know, it's important to do the math before

you jump into it because some side hustles require a little bit of investment. You know,

so it's like, well, does this make sense? You know, like, you know, let's just say you decide,

oh, I'm going to drive Uber. Okay. So is your car insurance going to go up? Oh, you know, like,

yes, gas. And so is the math going to math? You want to make sure whatever side hustle you choose,

that you do the math ahead of time, you know, that if you are going to invest, let's just say you're

really great baker, you know, if you are going to invest like, um, and maybe you're going to invest

time and energy and money into learning how to decorate cakes because you bake cakes well, but,

so you're like, oh, I'll take the $200 decorating class because it means I can charge another 30%

on the cake that I bake. Oh, I love that. So there has to be what I call direct return on investment,

you know, so meaning that in the beginning, when you are investing in a company or whatever you're

doing, it's okay to it's indirect return doesn't make sense, meaning like, I'm not going to get, uh,

you know, a mail robins pen in the beginning or like business cards necessarily because can I

sell this pen unless I'm going to pen selling business to make money? So in the beginning,

it's like, okay, I'm going to invest in maybe like a cute out from commercials because I'm a speaker.

And because when I show up, this will allow me then to get paid more because I look really

professional. So there's a direct return. Got it. If I bake baked cakes, I'm going to buy egg, flour,

sugar, the things I make, put it together, bake the cake. So many people invest in the indirect thing,

you know, like the accoutrements, like the website, the this, the that and it's like, you haven't made

any money yet. Now you're broker. Yeah. Before, you know, so just be mindful, like make sure that the

math makes sense, get things that are aligned with like what you're already doing and what maybe

you have a certificate or a degree in so you could get paid more. I love that. Any final parting wisdom.

I'll say this that like we are here. Well, I don't know if you know this, but two and a half years ago,

my husband passed away suddenly. I did not know that I'm an anniversal. So that sucks. And so one

thing I learned from that, aside from the financial component, which is that we did, I want to say 85

to 90% of the things right. So I get to just miss him. There's not that financial ruin that so many

is going to women lose their partner and their home. That has not been the case for me. But what I did

when I therapist calls the gift of grief is that it gave me perspective of what's really important.

You know, like that all of this that you're learning today is not for money's sake. It's for

meaning sake. You know, like I hope you remember to put that first and center that like what is the

real thing that you're wanting to what end time with family, time with friends, you know, like

purpose, whatever that is to center that and to use the money to match to it because you might

already have enough. You know, I didn't know I had enough. I was like the driver like, oh,

baby, we could do this. And he'd be like, well, I like our house. You know, we could get this car.

You know, if I work even harder and he's like, well, the car's paid off. I like our car. His

thing was always because I have a stepdaughter, Alyssa. He would always be like, well, if this is good

and you're good, I'm good. You know, and it took for him passing away to make me realize that

it's enough. Like I have enough. I spend way more time with family and friends now. You know, like,

so all that I work toward is to just bring back to center to enough. I don't need to collect

anymore. Like, you know, I'm so happy my book made the New York Times best sellers list. But

honestly, like, what does that even mean? You know, we're here for Flash in the pan. And how will

you spend that time? And I hope you spend it like on the things that mean the most connectedness,

love, purpose, and they use your money as one of the tools to help you achieve that life.

You are a gift to all of us. Thank you. Thank you for absolutely everything that you poured into us

today. What's coming up for you? I just miss him. He was a really good man. He still is.

And he's really proud of you. It sounds like you taught you some things that he could not teach

you when he was still here. So much. Honestly, like, I look back and I'm just like, oh, I mean,

candidly, I said this was so many women who are looking for partnership. My husband never made

over $60,000 a year. And yet the way he looked after like all of us, I mean, he called my parents

more than I did, you know, like he would like cut my nephew's hair. When he passed away, there was

a little old lady down the street who had never met who knocked on my door and said, I heard the

gentleman here passed away. And I said, yes, she said, you know, he'll I'll really miss him. He used

to rake my lawn. And I didn't even know that. But that's how he was, you know, sometimes I think

that we think more money, like means that we could do more. And he was testing it. That's you don't need

you can show up fully. So I just yeah, he just I just it's a lot. The loss is great, but not just mine.

You know what I mean? Yeah. And so like, I'm just so blessed to have experience. That kind of love.

I was loved so, so, so well that even without him being here, that love still resonates like

through me and around me and the people that he touched. So just really fortunate. We're really

fortunate that we have you. Thank you for sharing that. Thank you. You're welcome. I, um, I feel

very grateful that you were now my friend. Thank you. And the thing is is that when you don't

understand money, you're going to make me cry. When you don't understand money and you're really

scared about where you are, it clouds everything that's important. Yeah. Until it comes crashing in

your face and you waste it like, you know, and you spend all your emotional energy in that shame.

Yeah. And you not only miss the solutions, but you're not present for your life. Yeah.

Because it can like, you know, there's so much joy to be had, even if you don't have, like it's,

if you don't have enough for your basic needs, obviously, that's really hard. But for many people,

that's actually not the case. Yes. You know, that we are making ourselves sick and unhappy

from a place of like, you actually have enough and your kids are right here. They want to play

with you. You know, like you actually have enough and your wife wants to like watch a movie with you.

You know, your parents want to see you. You actually have enough. And it's not going to be until

they're gone. And they're like, I wish I would have. You know, yeah. So like, I'm fortunate that I,

I, something in me, I mean, I believe in a divine power like a, and a year and a half of before

drill passed away, there's like this sense that came over me, like you need to spend a lot of time

with your husband. Like, people didn't say anything like that. I just was like, because I just

was working so much. I mean, my business, I didn't eat figures in a year. And I was like, oh,

and then something was like, making a lot, but also was taking a toll. And it was like, I think

you need to slow down and like focus here. And so I did. So the last year and a half of my marriage

went from good to great. And I'm so grateful that I listened to that. You know,

thing that's the Tiffany. So we had like Friday date nights, you know, like I, I didn't work on

Fridays. And I would stop working at five because he got off at five so we can hang out after work.

I wasn't doing that before. I used to work from like, you know, seven to, to 10 every day, regardless,

you know. And so I look back at the time. And I'm so grateful, you know, that like he always

loved me well. And I got to really love him well in that time, you know. And so there's not much

I regret other than I just wish he was here, obviously. You know, but I think about our love. I

think about all the things that we did together. That's beautiful. You know, so yeah, but it's just

yeah. I'm sorry. I don't know why you apologize. No, don't just don't want to bring the energy down.

You didn't you lifted it up. Thank you made it way more important, honestly. Thank you. No, thank you.

So I always tell the person listening that I love you. Okay. Do you want to move this? No,

no. And I believe in your ability to change your life. And so if you want to do that together,

I don't know if I'm going to get through this. But you know, in case nobody else tells you as

you're listening to us, I wanted to say I love you. Yeah, I love you too. And we believe in

your ability to change your life. Absolutely. And Tiffany just gave you all of the information and

tips and tricks and strategies that you need to go do it.

That work. Okay. Are great. I got to wait for my action though. Action. All right. Are we good

with that? It's a garbage truck down. We're just going to keep going. Okay. Go for it. And

we'll go up a little bit more. I'm sorry. I should say that. Sure. Nice. Is that good? Yeah.

Is that simpler? That stuff like flies over my head when people start talking about that. Okay.

I'm going to do one more. Sorry. Including. Okay. Sorry. Go up one more time.

Two million people to be exact. Save million. Oh my lord. Oh, let me go back. Oh my gosh. You ever see like, what is that movie Friday? What is it? Is it called Friday? No, what's the movie with them? Regina George. Oh my god, I have like the worst like old lady memory. They're like, get in

loser. We're going to them all. Of course, I want to ask, but we're not going to. Yeah, we're going to spend money. It's like getting loser. Yeah. Yeah.

Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend.

I am not a licensed therapist and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.

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[Mastering Your Financial Life: Strategies for Debt, Budgeting, and Wealth]-[5 Rules of Money: How to Make It, Save It, & Be Smarter About It]

📋 Summary

Taking Control of Your Financial Life: Insights from The Budgetnista

Reframing the "Budget"

Automating Financial Success

Tackling Debt and Credit

Dream-scaping and Purpose

🎯Key Sentences

📝Key Phrases

📖 Transcript