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Hello everybody and welcome back to the psychology of your 20s.
the podcast where we talk through some of the big life changes and transitions of our 20s and what they mean for our psychology.
Hello everybody, welcome back to the show, welcome back to the podcast, new listeners, old listeners, wherever you are in the world.
It is so great to have you here back for another another episode as we, of course, break down the psychology of our 20s.
It's a bit of a different episode today.
It's a chit chat, catch up with me kind of episode because it's kind of been a while since I've just popped myself in front of the microphone and talked about my life, Gemma's life, what's been happening, what's been happening behind the scenes of the psychology of your 20s.
I always feel a little bit weird doing these life updates, doing these like chatty episodes because I feel like that's not what you're really here for.
Perhaps I feel like you expect more from me sometimes, like you expect the fully researched, fully fleshed out episodes and not delivering on that.
It's like not delivering on a promise and people are going to be disappointed that it's just me and my personality and no science.
but I'm trying to get over that a little bit.
I also just think that that's my toxic productivity.
You know, I release two episodes a week.
One of them every now and again can just be me getting to talk about myself and my learnings and how my beliefs and my life is changing.
I'm actually reading this book right now called The Ambition Trap.
I cannot remember who it's by, but it's completely like fundamentally changed how I'm viewing work and productivity specifically how I'm viewing perfection and allowing myself to make mistakes and not even make mistakes but allowing myself to have fun with my job and to have fun with my life and something I'm really aiming for at the moment is trying to measure my life more by how I feel what I can do for others whether I feel creative whether I'm patient whether I have the capacity for patience and the capacity for kindness and how I'm taking care of myself and this is kind of an effort to do
that to just sit down and talk rather than feel like I owe people something so anyways long -winded way of saying hello welcome today we're going to talk about what's been going on in my life you may may remember maybe almost a year ago I would say seven months I did another little chatty episode what's been going on with me and it was very very different to what I normally talk about it was me essentially giving you the details behind my mental breakdown let's call it what it is it was a mental breakdown I was in such a dark and raw place and I was honestly so so deeply detached from who I am
and I felt so awful and detached from the world and from reality and I was just a complete mess and I feel like I kind of released that episode I felt very brave doing it and then I just went back to like my regularly scheduled programming and I didn't really acknowledge it again, probably because so much happened afterwards.
I announced my book probably a month or two after I released that episode.
So then I just got so caught up in promoting Person in Progress.
Then I launched my new podcast, Mantra.
So then I got so caught up in launching Mantra because I love it and because it's incredible.
And then the book came out and I had to promote the book coming out and from the outside you would definitely have this perception or maybe not but I think that there would be this perception that this last year of my life has been like amazing and incredible and I must be on such a high and I'm not really there's definitely elements of it in which I'm very happy and and in which my life is getting getting exceedingly better, but there has been a lot of misery, I guess, a lot of silence struggling like behind the scenes that, you know what, we need to talk about because what you see online isn't
real. What you hear on podcasts isn't always real.
What you think about someone else's life isn't real.
And as much as I love talking about our 20s and I love talking about psychology, I think my real passion is just talking about the vulnerable things that make us human and part of that is being open just sitting here and saying hey like there has been some things i've been really that have been really hard in my life recently and you wouldn't have any clue so let's talk about it despite all of that and i will obviously give you updates on what i'm talking about um life is slowly getting really really good and i feel like i've had some really incredible epiphanies and mindset shifts and just like
radical i've just experienced some radical acceptance about unchangeable things in life and when you have those kinds of radical moments and transformative moments like you just kind of want to scream it from the rooftop and just say to people like it gets better like it's going to get better I've had a really tough year I felt very ungrateful and guilty for not being able to enjoy my moments as much as I wish I had been able to but throughout it all like there are some really incredible learnings that I think are life -changing for me.
So that's what we're going to talk about today.
We're going to talk about why sometimes it has to get worse before it gets better, what it means to struggle, what it means to thrive, what it means to be freaking human.
Without further ado, let's get into a little life update.
So behind the scenes of the podcast at the moment, I have been going through it and I've been really building this very whole new deep belief system.
I feel like the reason I had this mental breakdown last year was quite existential.
For those of you who don't know, when I was growing up, I used to have a really deep faith.
My family was not religious.
We never went to church. They were about as atheist as it comes.
But for some reason, I always really felt called into like organized religion.
And so like for a lot of my teen years and like definitely just my late teen years, maybe like the first year of my 20s, like I always felt this like real higher calling and the sense of like meaning in life that was attached to religion.
And then I don't think I've ever talked about this, but I went through something I don't want to call it traumatic, but just like really frustrating and disturbing with the church that I was in involving someone I was dating.
dating and um i just never went back like i was just like no i just can't do this anymore like i just it just completely like broke my belief structure and then for a while there was just kind of like this abyss there was just this hole i guess like in my soul where i all these big questions that faith really filled for me like i didn't have answers to like what are we here for what's the meaning of love is this a hostile or a loving universe like what does fairness mean what does justice mean like I didn't really have answers for those things and I feel like that all kind of came to a head last
year when I was like oh I really don't have answers for these things and that's actually really scary and I have to kind of figure out what I want to believe in and I have to figure out what I see my place in this world is like through my own means and through through spirituality, through science, through philosophy, whatever it was that was going to guide me there.
And there were some other things going on as well.
And it really like pushed me to such a low place, just thinking about the absurdity of the world and what I really learned through that.
And I honestly feel like the last month has been the first time that I've really come out of it since like it happened last year.
Like it's this last month, I've really been having like a moment of like oh my god like i'm getting things now and like i'm happy and wow like life is beautiful and i feel like i'm such an optimistic person that i spent so much of last year and the start of this year feeling like life was defined by misery and suffering and i've finally been able to appreciate like the miracle of existence and that's like something that i really value as such an optimistic person i have to see the good in the world so i'm glad that that is coming back to me But what it's really reminded me of is like, it's just
continually reminded me that it's always darkest before the dawn, that sometimes true growth does come from suffering and that you can endure so much more than you think you can.
And I remember like hearing people say that and being like, what are you talking about?
Like, what are you on about?
And then like the mental kind of battle that I've been through has just proven that to me time and time again like how strong I am how resilient I am I also want to talk about some other things that have been happening um I so I haven't talked about this at all but right before my book was launched I went into the optometrist random I needed to get new glasses and when I was at the optometrist um they like found something really scary on my what's it called optical nerve optic nerve sorry and I was in just like a regular schedule regularly scheduled like eye appointment and this optometrist like
was looking at these like retinal images that I had gotten done and it was so random that I'd gotten them done I wasn't paying attention and the person at the front desk was like oh do you want these done and I was like yeah yeah yeah and then I was like oh do I really want those done but I'd already said yes so she was looking at these photos and she was she basically was like oh you have I'm not going to say what it is or maybe I will like basically basically it was like the, it's swelling.
Um, and it's all around the optic nerve, which is a really, really bad sign.
And within like 20, I think like 48 hours, I was like at a specialist doing all these tests.
The things they had to rule out were really scary.
They had to rule out, um, MS, they had to rule out a brain tumor.
They had to rule out all these really scary things that I wasn't having a stroke um within 48 hours like it was like oh this huge thing is happening with my vision with my brain like that's so scary and I was in like the ophthalmologist's office um 48 hours after I found out I had this thing that I literally don't know knew nothing about and I remember I like kept my cool and then suddenly they were dilating my my pupil, which I don't know if you've ever had this happen, but they put this stuff in your eye that makes your pupil go huge.
And then you can't see for like the next four hours.
And I was sitting there and I was like, and why does they were putting it in my eye?
I was like, oh my gosh, like this is something huge is happening to me.
Like, this is really scary.
And I've only just started processing it.
So they're trying to put these like drops in my eye and I'm like crying and I'm like hysterical.
And like my boyfriend's there being like, I know it's so scary.
And And anyways, the thing is, is that I still don't have any answers around what's going on.
This was literally, I'm trying to get the timeline right.
Like very, like within weeks of before my book was launching, before my book was coming out, and suddenly it was just like, oh my God, what is happening?
And we're still trying to figure it out.
um just having to get all these tests done having to get all these MRIs having to get all these this blood work um and it's been really really scary and the thing is is that that was that was life getting worse like I had all this other stuff going on and then it was like and bam health scare and you know and bam like life is fragile like just in case you needed needed that reminder.
And it was incredibly stressful.
Like I'm laughing about it now, even though I think now that I know I don't have like a significant brain tumor.
And now that I definitely know that I wasn't having a stroke, I can laugh about it.
But like, it was kind of touch and go there.
And actually like the optometrist like called me after I'd left. Cause she'd been like, Oh, just go to the doctor eventually.
And then she called me like six times and was like, Hey, like this is actually an emergency.
Um, so that was scary.
Now I feel you're fine and I feel like that was really the low point I also had some people asking me like how was my mental health leading up to my book coming out and I so you guys might know I tried to go off my medication I'm on Lexapro I tried to go off last year and it didn't go very very well unfortunately this year I have actually tapered down to 10 milligrams and I like this is not not medical advice I just like to talk openly about dosages and everything because just might be helpful to you and I feel like I need it less and less but it is such a safety net for me right like I I was gonna say
I know I could never get to a really low point but obviously I could but that was when I wasn't taking it it's just a nice safety net for me it's just like okay I know that that my depression and my anxiety is biological I know that I exercise like four to five times a week I eat really well I spend a lot of time outdoors I have loving family social connection I have a purposeful career I'm safe I have all my needs met and then some I'm able to give back like I'm doing all the things that people say are externally protective against depression and anxiety.
And, you know, I'm doing all the, the behavioral interventions that people always saw as helping and they didn't work.
So I know that it's biological.
And I think just having this kind of intervention has been really, really useful.
So that's kind of like a medication update, date.
But yeah, leading up to my book coming out, I was struggling and not just because I had that health scare thing, which was significant, but because a lot of other big changes were happening in my life.
I had to move house the day before my book came out as well, which was just like two huge things happening at once.
And also something they may not tell you about writing a book is that it's quite anticlimactic right so you um do a lot of work it takes so many hours and so much of you to write a book and then it all like comes to fruition on like one day and then after that like it's so weird like you don't really hear from a lot of the people that you've worked with like you're suddenly just kind of on your own um and you're suddenly just like like, okay, I have to do, I'm just on my own.
Like this, this book is here and, you know, it's open, it's open for public opinion and you need people to buy it and you don't really know how to do that.
And, um, you also like will face disappointments in terms of people in your life, not supporting you and people in your life.
Um, yeah, not really showing up for you in a big moment and not buying copies or, um, you know, not saying congratulations or like small things.
things I was saying to someone the other day like you know they the quote that's like you know who your real friends are when you have a baby um you also know who your real friends are when you write a book because I don't know I feel like I'm the kind of friend where people do cool things like that I'm like really all behind it um and it was interesting seeing um how big things for you don't necessarily translate to big things for other people so I think if I had been in a better a mental state and hadn't had a big health scare right before my book came out I would have been able to let those
things go a little bit better but it was a real struggle so there was like a weird low point high point where I was like wow huge career milestone also like oh my god what is going on in my life this is when I want to talk about how things get better like the theme of this episode is things get worse before they get better things could have gotten a whole lot worse to me let's be completely real like honestly what I was going through is nothing compared to what so many people around the world are going through right now but things got worse and then slowly these changes started in my life and I
felt like I had been in this waiting room I felt like I had gone through like the dark night of the soul as they call it and suddenly someone like opened the door and was like all right cool you've like done enough like you've sat here for long enough we can tell you can take it welcome to the next chapter of your life and i want to spend the next part of this episode talking about what that felt like and how grateful i am for where i am now and what what it is that i'm grateful for so stick around stay with me i want to tell you why it always gets better hello my lovely listeners by now you know the more
knowledge we have about ourselves and the way our bodies work, the more empowered and in control we are.
And this is also true when it comes to our sexual health and what to do after unprotected sex. That's where plan B comes in.
It's emergency contraception with no age requirement that helps prevent pregnancy before it starts.
And because it works by only temporarily delaying ovulation, it won't impact your ability to get pregnant in the future.
We love a backup plan that puts us us in control because the more we know the more power we have. Learn more at planbonestep .com users directed.
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I recently recorded the first episode of Smart Talks with IBM, where I learned how AI agents are joining AI assistants as a major productivity tool.
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Brian Bissell, an expert from IBM, gave me an example example of how a college freshman might use an AI agent as a new student you may not know how do I do with my health and wellness issue how many credits am I going to get for this given class you could talk to someone and find out some of that but maybe it's a little bit sensitive and you don't want to do that Bissell told me you could build an AI agent a resource for new students that helps them navigate a new campus register for classes access the services they need and And even schedule appointments on their behalf, which in turn buys them
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We can see patterns of how agents and assistants can help employees and customers and end users be more productive, automate workflows so they're not doing certain types of repetitive work over and over again, and streamlining their lives and making data more accessible to them 24 hours a day.
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So this was the first thing that transformed my life and has gotten me out of a very dark period.
I fostered a dog. And you guys might know that that foster is no longer my foster dog.
It's now my actual dog.
but I started out fostering this dog.
Her name is Talu because I saw her on the RSPCA website and I just don't know what it was.
I was like, I need to help this dog.
I need her in my life.
Like I have space. I have capacity.
I have time. I have, well, my house at the time did not allow dogs, but whatever I got around that, like I just felt this calling to go and rescue her and we brought her home and within like two days me and my partner tom were like oh oh like really really screwed up yeah because this dog is this the biggest sweetheart she is so smart she is so kind she just so wants to be loved and she just so wants to um be part of the the pack and we said to each other we have to we have to give it three months before deciding and if nobody has adopted her in three months we can consider it um that did not last
very long we adopted her after a month and there's just something around having a dog that changes your perspective it makes you so much more selfless it makes you more patient you see life through it through their eyes I feel like I'm rehashing what so many other people have discovered but oh my lord it was just so glorious getting like waking like every single morning I wake up and I have to take her outside and I have to take her for a walk and it's meant that I'm outdoors more and I and I have to do these things for her even if I don't want to even if I'm busy even if I'm in a bad mood life
has become about her and honestly I think that it was the just not the the distraction but I think it was the thing I needed to get myself out of my ego like I feel like I was really investing in this like idea of myself as like being being like suffering and I was like life is really hard and I'm trying my best and it's not working and then I rescued her and her history is so terrible like she um yeah was really badly abused and then was removed like like was forcibly removed, like someone came in and rescued her.
And then the people who they rescued her from, like took the RSPCA to court and wanted to get her back.
And like, so that meant she had to stay in the pound for a year before she was even allowed to go out of the pound and do visits and stuff.
And I don't know, I was just like, wow, my life could be so much worse.
And here is this beautiful animal, this beautiful creature who, you know, has a burn on her nose and is missing teeth and had such a hard start.
and she freaking loves life and she is like down to play and every moment that she is allowed like to roll around in the grass is a beautiful moment and breakfast is the best thing of every day and she wakes up and gets 20 minutes of cuddles in the bed because of course we're such softies we allow her in the bed and it's just really transformative and now I keep saying to people like if you struggle with socializing if you struggle um with feeling optimistic about life if you struggle to see the joy in little things foster a dog if you can't adopt a dog foster a dog or adopt a dog and just see
how it completely changes your life obviously like make sure that you are in a good space like I feel like we didn't rush into it we were really concentrated around like can we have a pet right now and um it just happened to work out but the introduction of her her into my life I honestly feel like was a gift from the universe then I started seeing a new therapist and that was also incredible because I feel like I was getting really stuck with my old therapist she was amazing but I just felt like I had reached it sounds weird I'd reached what I was willing to share with her and I was so like deeply
worried about being triggered actually and about a therapist saying something that I hadn't considered and really upsetting me that I wasn't revealing anything more to her and I feel I felt like because I hadn't revealed things to her in the past that she would like call me out for almost lying like saying that I was okay when I wasn't so I needed a fresh slate and so I went and I started seeing a new therapist an existential therapist who was has just been freaking amazing and has really just revealed to me how so much of what I struggle with is just a fear of the unknown and so much of what i
struggle with is just just my brain working differently and i also have started running i just i'm just gonna leave that there i felt like my life was becoming very much an obsession with work and an obsession with how much more i could do you know i was doing i'm still doing the psychology of your 20s i was also doing mantra my other podcast um where there There were more spiritual discussions going on and I love them both so much, but it is a lot to put your brain into.
Like it is a lot of mental energy to create two things that you really love and promote a book and do all these other activities as well.
Um, and I needed something else.
And so my friend, Sarah, I was at the park one day and she was running and I ran into her and she was like, do you just want to run with me for a little bit?
And I was like, yeah, okay, I'll do that.
Ever since then, I've got the bug.
I've got the freaking bug and I've been posting about it on my personal Instagram a lot and you guys have been like what the heck how come you are suddenly running 15 kilometers um when you used to say you hated running it's because I've been going slow I've been going super slow I started it like I started at a pace that was probably like a walk or a jog and now I feel like I'm actually running and I feel like through running as well I've also been really testing testing my limits i've been testing my ability to persevere um and to endure and i've showed myself how strong i am and i've taught
myself patience and i've taught myself like consistency there's just all these discoveries that i'm having around the meaning of life that that i'm figuring out through such simple acts through moving my body in a way that so many other people have done for centuries through sharing a bond with an animal through connecting with people, through having new discussions.
And I just finally feel like I'm out of this really dark cloud.
Also, it's just been so wonderful to see how many of you have been reading my book and how many of you are relating and resonating with it.
I think it's been a while since I've really appreciated that I'm doing meaningful work.
I think that I can be a little bit too self -deprecating.
Tell me if you're the same, where I'm like, if I acknowledge that I'm good at what I do or that I care about what I do or that maybe I have something to say, people are going to immediately cut me down for that or that's entitlement or it will be taken away from me.
The moment that you feel, I guess not grateful, but the moment that you take something for granted or that you assume that you're good at something or you assume that something is safe, it will be up in the air.
And I just have been reminded that that's not the case, that there are people who really want you to succeed and that it's okay to just say like, I'm good at this thing and I care about this and I put a lot of work into it and I'm proud of it.
That's not bragging.
That's not even a humble brag.
That's just talking about the thing that you care about.
I think all of this is just to say that I'm learning so much and I'm constantly being reminded that there is a lot of darkness in the world and life is really painful sometimes but you will come out on the other side and that you have handled it all.
I'm grateful for the fact that this last year hasn't been amazing internally because every Every single day now that I wake up and I feel good, it's this weird thing of like, oh my gosh, like, wow, what a great day.
What a great day. I've been having just like incredible days and I don't know how to express it.
But I guess the whole purpose of this was just really to give you a story that makes you feel optimistic about your future.
and just to give you the story of the last year of my life that makes you feel that if you're going through something similar you don't feel like you're always going to be here and maybe you've heard that a million times before maybe you've heard the sentiment life gets worse before it gets better it's not always going to last time heals a million times over but i think when when there's a personal story attached to it, it really gives us hope.
And when I was going through it, I guess I'm still in the tail end of going through it.
I just wanted to hear stories of people having hard times and persevering and knowing that you can change your mindset.
You can change the way you think about your problems. You can get yourself unstuck.
You will see a a better day you will have hope again you will have belief again and I don't know it's just been a really really nice feeling and as I'm recording this I am about to go to Fiji with my mum and with my auntie and with my cousin for our girls trip and this time last year I was in Bali for our girls trip last year and I spent that whole trip basically basically crying and panic having panic attacks and just feeling so awful and so heavy and uncomfortable in my brain and now I'm going into this trip one year later feeling not amazing but pretty remarkable and feeling transformed and feeling
like I've kind of I don't know I've I've kind of built a new part of my armor I don't it sounds Sounds like cliches and cheesy, but that's really what I wanted to talk about today.
And thank you so much to you guys for supporting me.
I don't know if you've even noticed if anything's been different.
Maybe you've noticed some more like existential themes in recent episodes, but that's really where it's coming from.
And I'm hoping that I get a clean bill of health very, very soon, or that at least I have an answer as to what's going on in my freaking brain and with my freaking eyeball.
ball um but I'm optimistic and I feel like life is good I feel good take the good days love one another foster a dog there you go that's my life advice but until next time make sure you are following me on Instagram at that psychology podcast thanks for sticking around for this life update tell me how you're going in the comments make this a two -way street I feel like I just dumped a lot of information on you if you've made it this far wow um thank you for enduring all of that and also yeah i want to hear what's been happening with you as well how are we feeling out of town what's the emoji that best
represents your life right now make sure you are following along make sure that you have left us a five -star review if you feel called to do so and remember to take care of yourself remember life gets better remember it is all it's not always meant to be great and it's not always going to be great but it's always going going to end up amazing.
Until next time, stay safe, be kind, be gentle to yourself.
We will talk very, very soon.
Hello, my lovely listeners.
By now you know, the more knowledge we have about ourselves and the way our bodies work, the more empowered and in control we are.
And this is also true when it comes to our sexual health and what to do after unprotected sex. That's where Plan B comes in.
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Hi, I'm Danielle Fishel from PodMeetsWorld.
So for my two boys, I got Samsung Galaxy Watch for Kids.
And I'm not saying I'm kind of jealous of my kids tech. I'm saying I am definitely jealous of my child's tech. This thing lets them call, text and explore all from their wrist. No smartphone required.
And don't worry, you're still the boss.
You control who they can talk to, and yes, you can totally stalk their location in real time.
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Hey, it's Karen and Georgia from My Favorite Murder.
Thanks to Hyundai, we got to take a post -show drive in the Ioniq 5.
We had snacks, laughs, and we even recorded a special episode featuring some unforgettable car -themed stories.
Take a listen. I'm going to tell you a story today, Karen.
It's about a pivotal role role that cars played in none other than the Montgomery Bus Boycott.
Okay. Well, yes, it's right there in the title.
Right. This episode is brought to you by the 2025 Hyundai Ioniq 5.
This is an IHeart Podcast.
