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Oh, and he stumbles.
Oh, right into the kitchen without missing a beat.
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Hello and welcome back to the show I am Patrick here as always with Ben welcome my friend how are you did?
I'm good I'm good man good to see you summertime is here we just chatted your kids are not yet on summer vacation but mine are which means every one of my routines has now been thrown out the door we have to we have to we have to talk about the reason that we did not record we people people don't know this last time we got together was it was it last oh no it's the one before yeah we started recording and we were about maybe four minutes exactly i was gonna say eight okay four minutes into an episode and patrick like it seems all of a sudden is like massively distracted i'm talking i'm still talking
i'm still talking but i can tell he mutes so distracted and finally he's say i i gotta stop you i gotta stop you i kid you not my cat is stuck up in a tree yes yeah long story short you it took you how long four hours three and a half hours yeah i'll give the very short version so my kid my kids know my youngest is five he knows now like when i'm recording not to come in that was wasn't always the case but he gets it now and so he kind of like did his little knock on the door and i i kind of ignored him but then he opened the door and he told me that Charlie our cat is stuck in a tree so we paused
for a second and we found him in the tree and he was about what turned out to be about 40 feet up in the tree and the funniest thing two funny things and we'll move on from that which is I have no idea how tall 40 feet is until I put up a first a 20 -foot ladder and then I put up a 26 -foot ladder and then you realize those aren't even close to 40 feet so that was the first thing we did is put up some some ladders and then neither of the ladders we had access to were even close.
So we asked a neighbor, neighbor called a friend.
So you duct taped the ladders together.
No, but hold on. But I did try something that I wish, wish, wish would have worked because it would have been a much better story for this here, which is so, okay.
So between waiting, getting the 25 foot ladder, and we got a friend of a friend came over with a 40 foot ladder and he, he eventually saved saved charlie from the tree but in between there what i did was i i tried to lift the 25 or 27 foot ladder over my head in a pressing form in a pressing pressing fashion in the hopes it would get close enough to the cat that the cat would be like i guess i'll jump on the ladder and climb down i wish it had worked but the cat just looked at the ladder like i don't know what you think you're doing with this thing buddy but that would have been such a good story
of how crossfit saved my cat but it did not ultimately work we had to do was climb up the first ladder with the second ladder then press it above that would have been good that would have been better okay but anyways charlie's fine and uh four hours to rescue a cat 40 feet up in a tree so but yeah so what we what we were going to talk about it's been a few minutes now but we were in the midst of and this is going to wrap it up a three -part series on key distractions that are keeping us from health from happiness and from hearts on fire.
We've talked about health.
We've talked about three distinctions or three distractions rather that kept us from health.
We talked about the lore of quick fixes, social and environmental influences, and obsession with outcomes.
After that, we talked about key distractions keeping us from happiness.
We talked about the four idols, internal psychological traps like judgment and expectation, and then finally surrendering to other people's priorities.
And today we're going to talk about key distractions distractions that are keeping us from living with our hearts on fire.
We're going to talk about fear of uncertainty and risk aversion, self -doubt and limiting narratives, and finally, busyness, numbing, and comfort seeking.
So when we say distractions, what we're talking about are things that can be considered a thief of our time, energy, attention, and money, things that substitute busyness, anxiety, or superficiality for the deeper work of cultivating health, happiness, and living with our hearts on fire.
So if you haven't dipped into the first two episodes, highly recommend it.
As we get into this one, Ben, this concept of hearts on fire is one we've mentioned before.
We've certainly mentioned it a lot.
I don't know that we've ever really defined it for ourselves or for others.
So I kind of wanted to start there is when we say hearts on fire, when you think about living with your heart on fire, what comes to mind?
What do you conjure up?
It's really living it in accordance or in harmony, alignment with your your vision and values.
It is the things that light you up.
It is your purpose.
It is your passion.
And what most of fear, anxiety, depression, stress is rooted in is this gap that we are living in.
So it is one of the sayings like working really hard for something something you don't care about is hell, right?
That's a terrible existence.
That's like the most extreme example of that would be something like slavery, right?
That's a terrible, terrible existence to be forced to work excruciatingly hard for something you ultimately don't care about at all.
If you are working excruciatingly hard for something you love and you are passionate about, that's amazing.
People find the most fulfillment in that.
So it's not a matter of the work.
work, it's the meaning behind the work and you call work your life.
This is, does you, are you living your life with purpose, passion, with your heart on fire?
We want to make sure that we're spending our days, which are so limited in meaningful ways.
And, you know, we kind of separated these from health and happiness and hearts on fire, but they're all three sides of the same coin yep right if you if you don't live with your heart on fire your stress goes up well we know stress is one of the massive things that erodes our health and we went into a big kind of explanation of that in the other on the other episode so we really do want to make sure that we are living with our hearts on fire you know revol navikant who we've quoted a lot recently, his little catchy thing, which he does so well is find what feels like play to you, but look like,
looks like work to others.
I love that advice because no, no one can beat you at being you.
This, the idea behind this is find something that is, that you enjoy.
Now I hear hear the other side of this all the time which is these really high level CEOs you know professors say that you know they bring people into their classrooms and they have these conversations and they give them the worst advice which is do what you're passionate about like that's terrible advice what you should do is earn a lot of money and then you give the opportunity the freedom to do your things.
I just wholeheartedly disagree with that.
You don't want to give up any of your time, in my opinion, to be doing things that you aren't passionate about.
This doesn't mean don't earn your stripes.
It doesn't mean don't work hard. It doesn't mean that every day is going to be bliss and amazing.
There's going to be be troubles.
There's going to be bumps on the roads.
There's going to be potentially catastrophe along the way, but let's let all those things be in the pursuit and in the process of things that we enjoy doing, not for the sake of an outcome that we really have no control over and put the happiness on the other side of that outcome.
In most cases, we know happiness isn't there.
Happiness is formed in the process.
So I think it's very, it's crucial for us to be able to make sure that we are living with our hearts on fire, yet we know that there's a number of distractions that keep us from doing that.
Yeah. Before we get into it, how much of hearts on fire this idea is work -related versus just like, how much do we want to think about this holistically versus, you know, we've talked about the amount of time we spend at work means that work needs to be part of this calculus we make in terms of trying to chase what truly matters, right?
We can't ignore that.
But how much of hearts on fire do you think of when, or how much of work do you think when you think about hearts on fire?
Is it relegated to that or is it broader than that?
It's not relegated, but I think it's disproportionately associated with work.
Mm hmm. You know, if we sleep for eight hours and you work for eight hours and you're awake for eight hours, this is work is a really meaningful part of our lives.
We can't just kind of like put on the shelf and just say, well, there's the work portion.
I'll take care of all the rest out there.
This is a third of our lives is essentially work.
So this is the one that's disproportionately associated with work.
Is it a matter elsewhere?
Yes. Right. right? You don't want to be spending your time doing hobbies or other pursuits that you really are not aligned with.
But this really is about the work discussion.
Yeah, cool. Okay, let's think about that as we go through these, these three key distractions.
The first one, fear of uncertainty and risk aversion.
One of the most powerful distractions from living a life of purpose is the tendency to avoid uncertainty and discomfort.
The desire for safety, predictability, and the familiar can keep you stuck in routines that feel secure but uninspiring.
This fear often manifests as hesitation to make bold moves, reluctance to leave comfort zones, or a habit of talking yourself out of pursuing what truly excites you.
Living with your heart on fire requires embracing the unknown and being willing to risk failure or or discomfort in the pursuit of something meaningful.
Right. So myself, I got out of school.
I got a job in corporate America doing finance, banking, foreign exchange derivatives, and that stuff.
So secure with one of the biggest, most secure companies in the world.
There was the corporate ladder.
I knew what next year looked like.
I knew what five years down the road looked like.
I knew what 10 years down the road looked like.
I knew that I was going to be getting a paycheck all the time.
I knew what that was going to be.
Everything was set.
There was very little uncertainty.
There's also very little fulfillment or happiness along the way.
I left that world and took the risk and jumped into the sea of of uncertainty to become an entrepreneur.
But that's what Hearts on Fire is about.
It's about taking those leaps and it's really scary and it's really hard. We – the other thing we kind of know is like you're kind of trading certain levels of uncertainty, right?
It's like the uncertainty of an entrepreneur is – or trading certain freedoms, right?
There's different levels of this.
Freedoms as an entrepreneur, I have this freedom of work schedule, doing what I want to do, making my own decisions working with the people that i choose to work with but that comes with huge levels of other levels of uncertainty risks where the flip side is just like this you don't have it all you're never going to have it all yep so one of the one of the realizations is to this realization that there there is always going to be uncertainty like it's always there and people kind of feel like well once i get over that hump once i make 100k once i make a 250k once i make partner once i get my degree
once i and they're hoping that when i get to the other side of that that level of uncertainty will pass i can say from achieving a whole bunch of these milestones along the way that it doesn't even when you have a really nice nest egg and you feel more financially secure you're like i hope i don't lose it it's like it it just, it just, the uncertainty stays and just, it just wears a different mask.
And to make just that point on like, uncertainty is, is crazy.
Like there's a study that was done in Nature Neuroscience in 2016 that showed uncertainty triggers more stress than predictable pain.
The subjects reported higher anxiety when they might receive an electric shock than when they knew they would receive an electric shock.
That's like the other example that has kind of been used is people would rather wait 10 minutes for a train or a bus knowing it's 10 minutes.
Like you think about you get out at the airport you're waiting for logan express it's the whole uber thing they tell you they tell you it's going to be nine minutes before that the driver gets to you and they're taking away that level of uncertainty they figure this out they've hacked it whereas taxis even if it might only take 90 seconds to hail a cab you're like how long is i don't know you would rather wait wait nine minutes, knowing it's nine minutes, then 90 seconds, not knowing we, we, as human beings like we'll do a lot to avoid uncertainty.
So it's one of those things that we have to override.
And it's, it's really a lot of it, you know, risk aversion, a lot of it just comes down to accepting certain levels of fear.
I love your point about the, the certainty of one, one path doesn't eliminate uncertainty.
It just creates or opens the possibility of a different kind of uncertainty.
And so even the certain path, the bend that didn't take a left when everybody thought he was going to go straight, when you stay at the bank, et cetera, that version who knew within two years I was going to get promoted to X and I would make X and then I'd to be able to do why didn't eliminate the uncertainty that we're so scared of, just like the uncertainty of taking the path you did doesn't eliminate the uncertainty or the certainty of what's to come next.
There is no certainty without uncertainty.
It's the same thing.
And so if you're aiming for certainty and you're making decisions based on certainty, you're just not looking at at what the uncertainty is on the other side of that certainty.
So many certainties in that.
So many certainties.
But that's kind of the point, which is we need to stop thinking about certainty at all because it's always there.
We will never get rid of it.
It's like problems, right?
It's like you can't solve a problem and then not have any more problems. You can't make decisions and eventually the uncertainty will disappear.
That's not how certainty works.
It's like breathing.
It's like oxygen. It's always going to be there.
And so we need to remove it from our decision set because all, because if we make decisions based on certainty, we're just fooling ourselves.
We're just lying to ourselves.
We are just intentionally or not, not looking at the uncertainty that that certainty will bring.
You know, Heather asked me a question a while back, which was somewhere along the lines of one to 10, how happy are you with your life?
Great. And that's, that's a, that's an awesome question.
And my gut response was seven.
Right. And, but I paused as I often do.
And people around me are like, we have these, we have these athletes in town training last week and they're like that.
that. It's like I would pause before answering questions and they were kind of like, I was meeting him for the first time.
It was kind of like weird. I was like, oh gosh, you get it guys.
When you ask me questions, I came up with this thing with my wife because it's like, I just say standby processing because I'm listening to you.
I'm just processing this thing.
So anyway, she asked me that question.
I was standby processing.
I didn't answer seven because I wanted to like run it through my head.
And the thing that came up to me was like, you know, the, the, the Phil Stutz stuff, it was like, why did I say seven?
And the reason I said seven was because I wanted less pain, work, and uncertainty.
Those are the three things that are embedded in human existence, right?
Like you can't, they're not going away, but that's when right away I was like, well, I would like it if I didn't have to work as much, if I had more freedom, I'd like it if I had more, I was higher up the wealth game.
So I would have more certainty.
That's the reason I wanted that was right away is because if I have that, then I just feel like, and then the last one was work, pain, uncertainty, whatever.
And right away, I went like, well, wait a minute.
I'm farther along than I, in terms of the uncertainty thing than I ever thought I would be.
I never ever thought I would reach where I am now.
So what, what am I waiting for to like, and I went, wait a minute.
Like if you take those things off the table, like the other saying is, which Chris Williams has said is how many goals have you already achieved that you said would make you happy?
You kind of run that through.
It's like, okay, my life right now actually is probably like a 9 .5, because the uncertainty is not going to go away.
I said it would go away when, but I've already gotten that.
And I told myself a new story that it will go away when, and I'm just formulating these stories.
They're not going away so you go like, Okay, this is just one of those things that's built into our DNA.
We just kind of have to live with it no matter where I get to.
I was hanging out with some other friends.
He's been wildly successful.
Retired at age 36, made tens and tens and tens of millions of dollars.
And you would think that he'd be like, just want to like explore freedoms. And the idea was, no, I want to get to his.
He's so driven to get to the next level, to get to next.
And us, we go, that's crazy.
What are you talking about?
You want to get to next?
Like, when is it the thing?
And it's the same thing we see with these athletes.
athletes like okay you're making 100 million dollars a year what does it matter if you make 130 or 180 and to them it's all about wealth and status games that's built into us and that's where we go like no because when I get there and we kind of like so we're kind of like crossing paths a little bit here but it is because of the fear of uncertainty that keeps us from living with our our hearts on fire because we go no i have to know that i can go and do that thing instead of taking the risk right and people people don't take risks and when they do it they're not kind of raising their hand and going
they're not time they're not connecting the dots to like the reason i'm not taking the risk is because i fear uncertainty yep what they'll say is things like yeah i should write that book yeah Yeah, I should start that business.
Yeah, we should move to Hawaii.
Yes, we should go take that adventure.
We should homeschool the kids, said no one ever.
But what they'll say instead of – but I can't stand that level of uncertainty.
I'm not willing to take that risk.
What they'll say instead is it's not the right time or we need more planning.
We need to think about that.
I'll do that. win and when when really what they're saying is i need to be more certain that it will not exactly right that it will work well no what they're actually saying is i'm afraid what they're saying is i'm afraid of that thing that i say would light me up inside that thing i say would set my heart on fire that thing i say is so aligned with my moving to montana and becoming becoming a fly fishing guide right that thing i say is that thing that i want to actually do more than anything else the reason i'm not doing that is because i'm afraid i'm afraid of the risk and the uncertainty associated
with it that's what keeps that's the distraction that is the thing that's keeping us from living with our hearts on fire and i get it like i'm by the way it's like i'm not condemning anyone no no we all have it that's the whole thing is we have to recognize that these distractions are real, but unless we name them for what they actually are, which is you're afraid.
And once you go like you're afraid, not I need more planning.
I need to think about it more.
Maybe someday when this happens, it's not the right time.
When you go, those are all the language of those that are afraid.
It's okay. That's okay.
Now we go like, okay, I'm just afraid to do this.
Then you can work with that because we put it on the table.
When it's like you haven't said it, it's under the table and you think you're having another discussion.
You think it is when you line this up.
You think it is when you cross that other threshold.
You think it is when you create enough planning.
You think it's a logical problem to solve.
Correct. Exactly. Yes.
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We've talked about this sort of three -step process that needs to happen to chase what truly matters.
It's, again, another phrase that we use all the time.
But I think it's exactly the same three -step process here, which is the first thing is we need to develop the awareness of what sets our heart on fire.
We need to understand that.
We need to make sure that it's not what our parents said, what culture said, what's popular, what's whatever else it might be.
It is in fact what sets our heart on fire.
So that's the first thing is the awareness piece.
And then the second piece is what you're getting at here, which is then we have to have the bravery enough to actually begin to chase it.
And that's really, really, really hard for all the reasons we just laid out, right?
And then the third part is we need to have the persistence to see it through.
And each one of those steps is hard for all their own separate special reasons, but that's really what's necessary to really all the things we talk about, whether it's building health or a life of happiness or a life of hearts on fire.
It's like, what is it that we're trying to get ourselves towards?
We have to, we have to create the counter -programming in our own minds to allow ourselves to do the third step, which is stick with it when it gets hard, because it's always it's going to get hard. Yeah, absolutely.
I think that, you know, most people, I don't think this is necessarily our audience, but most people don't do the first step, right?
They're just pre -programmed that I'm going to be a doctor, got to make, you know, half a million dollars and get the white picket fence.
And they don't go truly, what's the thing that's going to set me on fire, you know?
Yeah. And then, right.
And then it's a matter of, you know, Brene Brown has a quote that you can be safe or you can be brave. I love that.
But you can't be both.
Being brave is risky, right?
But being brave is, there's so much payoff to that.
We are programmed to be in the box.
We are programmed to be cattle.
We are programmed to be ants marching.
Just go do the thing.
From the school system all the way on up.
And I get it. Because what your parents are just hedging their bets.
They're going back to certainty.
They're going back to certainty.
If you become a doctor or a lawyer, I know that you're not going to end up a vagabond.
I know you're not going to end up on the streets.
Whereas if you try to be be a musician oh god if you go and you know become a a surfing instructor oh no like if you go and you know lead people on hikes in the in the the sahara desert like oh no like they're just trying to play it safe yep but you can be safe or you can be so another way is like you can take the risks and live with your heart on fire or you can be distracted and be in a box do people take hikes in the sahara i don't know you don't wreck my stories like everyone listening was like yeah yeah yeah but that's why it's risky it is risky actually yeah you got to bring a camel like
yeah next one self that metaphor went somewhere else i was gonna like Like I was going to do it as a safari.
I liked it. I was just curious.
I was going to do safari.
And then I was like, no, that's not enough.
Like let's go Sahara.
And in mid S word, I changed it.
Second key distraction, self -doubt and limiting narratives.
Internal barriers such as persistent self -doubt, imposter syndrome, or the belief that your dreams are unrealistic can sap your conviction and keep you from pursuing your calling.
These distractions often sound like, who am I to do this?
Or that's not for people like me.
this self -judgment and these limiting beliefs are major obstacles to becoming your best self and living with intention hmm you know the first thing that pops in my head here i just want to say because i don't know if i stole it from somewhere so if i did sorry but this idea of limiting narratives i wrote down expansive narratives we need to tell ourselves expansive narratives love that and again i don't know if i stole from somebody but if not cool uh but i I think that's so powerful, this idea of like we're telling ourselves stories anyways.
We've talked about this 100 times, you know, everything from the victim, the pessimist, the optimist, and even the warrior.
We're all just telling stories here.
The realist is the only one not telling stories.
The warrior is telling expansive stories.
Everybody else is telling limiting stories, right?
So I just love that idea of like, can we shift the stories we're telling ourselves to not make us smaller, but to make us bigger?
you know the storytelling thing you know the most powerful stories that we're telling ourselves are is the ones that we don't realize we're telling ourselves oh yeah that's the story we got to be it's kind of what you're saying it's the awareness right yep like i don't even realize that this is the story i'm telling myself and this is where we work so hard on identifying triggers because Triggers are kind of the speed bump in the smooth road.
You go, whoa, what was that?
There's the tap on the shoulder from Arthur Brooks.
Exactly, the tap on the shoulder.
I love that. So that's where we want to go like, okay, if a trigger happens, there's a narrative there.
There's a story I'm telling myself.
Can I explore that?
And can I go, whoa, that's really self -limiting.
That's not an expansive story at all.
And I think that nothing is binary like that, right?
It's not like it's limiting or it's expanding.
there's a lot of gray in between there but if we kind of like at least operate with that is you know and that's why i love the the the phases of mindset the storytelling like you kind of labeled these stories we're telling ourselves is that if it's limiting it's victim or pessimist right it's optimistic at least it's somewhat on the positive it's at least not negative but right the realist in the the warrior mindset the ones that are telling the expansive the accepting the the in control.
I have autonomy. I am not a tree.
If I don't like where I am, I can move.
I am not a leaf in the wind, just being blown around by external circumstances.
I have agency in my life.
I can make these changes.
My life is under my control.
You know, we, the way we live now in this modern era, like the opportunities are endless, literally infinite for what you want to do.
You could go work and live anywhere on the planet.
You could do anything you want to do like what is this self -narrative that we are telling ourselves because that is that is the distraction that is the number one thing if we don't overcome that first step of it as you said is become aware of it what is the stories we don't even realize we're telling ourselves identify kind of pinpoint go whoa highlight underline that challenge it try to bring different perspectives to it go if i was to think the opposite shout out to opposite george on seinfeld if i was just like just for fun go what would the opposite of this mindset look like can i just like
live in that for a while no not days seconds just kind of go like what is the opposite of this self -defeating thought well it's that you don't have to believe it but just put something else in there just like Like if you drop enough droplets into something over time, it changes the construction of what it originally was.
So that's all we're trying to do is kind of drop here or drip there or drop here or drip there into a new narrative that we can kind of start telling ourselves.
I think that this is where people get caught up a little bit is too is, you know, whether it's the pessimist or the victim mindset, mindset they it kind of wears this mask of humility right like oh it's like it's i'm just gonna of selflessness kind of is that kind of what you mean yeah like so like yes like it's it's not me like it's just out there like i'm not gonna there's what who am i to do this it's a weird kind of like thing, but we have to realize that that level of that mask of humility, it's not the humility the way we define it, right?
The way we define humility is growth mindset, which is I don't have all the answers.
I am not born this way.
I can change. I can mold.
it's not about me it's about the team I want feedback don't I don't think I have this whole thing figured out it's kind of but humility takes this other type of thing which is like well I'm just not as good right I'm just I'm never going to kind of be that I don't have control over that it's weird but that is actually a a separate form of self -centeredness you're putting it kind of like you're creating this narrative about you again it's again about you which is really it's a really you know if we want to level up and we want to level up humanity we kind of owe it it's the opposite of self -centeredness
you owe it to everyone else to be able to bring your best self forward we're never going to be it all the time we are all human we all have faults, we are all imperfect beings.
But the objective that we should be doing is to live a great life.
A noble, great, well -lived life full of purpose, poise, passion, balance, hearts on fire.
And if you are kind of going, well, no, not me.
Like, I don't know.
No, it's that that's the limiting narrative that is distracting us from being able to do this thing.
um we we should be centering on instead of ourselves no not me not this not on on on the mission on the work on the service on the contribution this is what i mean by like that level of humility is self -serving it's again you're you're it's turning it all back in on to to you in a way that is not furthering anything yeah it reminds me i'm not going to get the quote right but it's from the musician neil young oh i love it came across it i don't know sometime he said holding i think it's holding back is so close to stealing or something like that oh the idea of like not giving all of yourself not pursuing
what really matters to you is to the rest of us stealing because you're not giving us everything you could give us you're being and i love that that's sort of the the perspective shift like you're actually being selfish in a way that you don't think you're not labeling it as selfish, but it's selfish to us because we don't get all of you.
We don't get the version of you with your heart on fire and everything that you could do if your heart was on fire.
You're stealing from us the opportunity to see that, to interact with that, to get the benefits of that.
That's how Tim Galloway in the intergame of tennis redefines competitiveness.
Oh, I like that. Yep.
So the way he says it is is I owe it to my competitor to be my best. Because if I don't be, if I'm not my best, I'm not pushing them to be their best. That's the way he defines competitiveness.
Because if it's not about the wins, it's about the growth along the way.
If you go, well, if it's about the growth along the way, then what does it even matter if you try at all?
If it's not about wins or losses?
No, you have to try as hard as you can to win.
That's the deal. Like you want to put your best foot forward so that other people can be challenged as much as possible.
And it goes right to the heart of, no hard pun intended with the saying, but do not ask what the world needs.
Ask what will set your heart on fire.
Because what the world needs is more people with their heart on fire.
And this is the essence of this whole thing.
Like it's not about trying to fill a void.
It's not a product market fit.
Do we need, where's the best opportunity?
Do I, should I be a doctor or should I be a lawyer?
It's like, no, it's neither.
Where's the more opportunities?
I'm going to become a computer coder because that's where the world is going.
I'm going to become an AI engineer because that's where the world's.
No, it's like, what's the thing that's going to make you feel so alive?
People just want to be a, we all, to get, for a second, there is a literal, There's an energy force coming out of you.
And everyone knows - Every time I talk about energy forces, woo -woo.
Woo -woo. When you walk into people that you're close to, you can, without, if your wife comes in, without you even turning around, you can tell.
Like when we got on this call today, I could tell that you had really good energy and it lifted me up, right?
It lifted me up. And what an awesome – if everyone had that because they were doing what sets their heart on fire, not because they were trying to fill a product market fit in terms of us humans being the product.
We're trying to fit ourselves into the economic marketplace.
But we are instead trying to figure out just what is the thing that I could be most excited about producing and letting happen.
Now, this is the right time to kind of loop back a little bit to kind of like our concentric circles when we talk about work and we talk about it's not just I'm so passionate about ant farming.
So I'm going to go make ant farms, right?
The idea is, yes, what are you passionate about?
The next is where is there an economic earning potential?
I don't think there's much in ant farming.
what am i good at what am i talented at and is in line with my vision and values like can i do can i do this work with great people that's kind of the four things and if what you're considering is those four things like go that's your heart is gonna be so important yes you're gonna have hard days yes you're gonna have struggle challenges but again it's like it's sometimes times those are the most meaningful parts.
If you're washing dishes and you have extra hard times on top of that, that's hard. That's really hard. Yep.
I want to hit on one idea before we move on to our third distraction.
And it's because of all the ones of health and of happiness, this one is the one that I think somebody out there could point to us, you and I, Ben, and say, Yeah, it's easy for you guys to say live with your hearts on fire.
And I want to I want to one, I want to I want to say that out loud.
But two, because I actually think that it's an interesting thing to think about, which is I don't think I've ever in my life been made to feel like I am not worthy of pursuing the things that I wanted to pursue.
my parents, teachers, whatever.
And for any number of reasons, but mostly it's because I'm a tall white guy, right?
Like fine. And I think it's important to point out that all of us, all of us sort of exist on the spectrum of how easy it is to say, yeah, I'm going to, I'm going to fix the stories in my head.
I'm going to not fall victim to the belief that I'm not good enough, right?
Like we're all struggling with that to some degree.
And some of us have it a little little easier than others.
And so I guess I bring all that up to say, like, have you ever been made to feel that whatever, like, you know, okay, Ben, you're going to leave the investment bank and you're going to start to, like, become a personal trainer.
Yeah, that's hard. And yeah, it's scary.
And back to the idea of uncertainty.
But I would be surprised if anybody in your life was like, Ben, that's you.
You can't do that. You're not smart enough.
You're not good enough.
You're not whatever it might be.
And so I do think it's just an interesting thing to think about is that some of us make it past that stage quicker than others and some people get stuck there.
I'm just curious what your thoughts are on it.
Yeah, we are certainly lucky as a tall white guy and a medium height white guy.
But more, even more so than that, it's our upbringing.
You were raised with go do that thing we support you completely and we believe that you can be successful doing that that's exactly what i was brought up with no matter like no matter what i did i had the full support go do that thing even when you know in hindsight looking back they were like what the hell are you doing totally yep and they told me that yep but now but they never gave me an ounce of doubt it was a full support that we we we think that's amazing go do that thing that's all I ever felt that I got from there what that does is it helps us with this category what happened was we don't
have that default programming running through our heads so this is why we ended up doing things that set our hearts on fire like you're an artist and I'm a coach like I'm an entrepreneur like these are things that I loved if I could go do anything in the world people ask me like if you weren't doing this what would you do it's a really hard question for me because I would be doing this in a different I would just be doing this in in a different way.
It would be the exact same thing.
This is what I want to do more than anything else.
If you were to retire, what would you do?
I would keep working.
I wouldn't retire. I would keep doing this because I love it.
It doesn't mean this is the big thing is people like go there and they go, OK, but you have it easy because you're moderate and tall white guys.
Yes. And that's that is life is unlucky.
But it also doesn't mean it's easy.
Right. It's no one saying that any of this is going to be easy.
In fact, it's way harder.
It's harder. I shouldn't say that.
You have to choose your hard, right?
So it is hard to be an entrepreneur.
It is also hard to work on an hourly job nine to five where you have no control, no agency, no autonomy.
economy. That's hard in different ways.
One is financially brutal in terms of responsibility, brutal in terms of the so -called uncertainty and stress, brutal.
Where the other one, nope, you just go in and you do your thing, punch the clock, make sure you do enough to not get fired and you're good.
But it's brutal in other ways.
You have to choose your hard that there's no life is hard life is going to be hard would you rather do the hard things that you feel in your heart make you feel like you come alive or that you're just trying to get to five o 'clock you're just trying to get to the weekend you're just trying to get to your two weeks of vacation i choose the other road a hundred times out of a hundred yep and we to call it out the elephant in the room are so blessed and lucky for a lot of the the things that we had no control over like where we grew up who our parents were the color of our skin like it made it a lot
easier for us to do these things it doesn't mean that any of this stuff changes though just there's different levels of hard you know the saying is if if you threw if everyone threw their problems them into a pile i think we really quick to pull ours back and that goes for most people that are telling self -limiting narratives they are not the victims they think that they are there are true victims in the world true victims most people with a victim mindset are not true victims we're sponsored this time around by skims creators of the most comfortable stylish men's underwear that's getting rave
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as a way to avoid the deeper more challenging work of clarifying and pursuing your purpose whether it's endless scrolling overwork or indulging in easy pleasures these habits can make life feel full but hollow true passion and purpose require the courage to say no to numbing distractions and yes to the sometimes uncomfortable path of intentional living okay so there's like these are kind of like they're they're they're kind of two different ones smushed together so there's um there's busyness right which is i don't have enough time and then there's this kind of like numbing and comfort seeking
which is i'm just burnt out i just want to like i want the ice cream i want netflix i want to scroll on my phone i just want I want like this life of short -term pleasure for long -term pain.
The first one, the busyness one.
We have this a lot which is like don't confuse busy with productive.
Some of the most productive people in the world can on the surface be – look incredibly unbusy.
You know, Greg McCown from Essentialism has – if you don't prioritize your life, someone else will.
will so this again all of this is like the heart on fire it requires a huge level of responsibility and agency you we have to do this thing no one is going to pave by default we this is not the norm this is this is the the anti -path this is the past left traveled this is going to take a machete to to clear away a little bit so you can actually see the path at all, because it's not there at first view.
Because you're so busy, because so many things are encroaching on what you actually want to do.
And it takes time, as we said, to create that level of awareness of what is the thing that is actually going to do this.
So that's the busyness factor.
The other one is like the the numbing, the comfort seeking.
And this is into like the comfort crisis and all the stuff that we talk about all the time is that we're so distracted by the comforts of modern day society.
And it's so easy, the stats are everywhere about the phones, how distracting phones are.
And we're, again, now the old white guys that control about, but here's the average American American checks their phone.
This is – I can't believe this and maybe I'm the anomaly on this side because I get to work and I put my phone – I don't check my phone at work all day.
I check my phone at the end of the day and try to answer all my stuff before I go home.
Then I go home and I put my phone in a drawer and I don't check it.
I try not to check it at all but the reality is probably half of the days I check it one more time.
So I'm checking my phone probably half a dozen times a day.
Do you want to take a guess at how this is done by a study done in 2022 by Azurion, A -S -U -R -I -O -N?
How many times the average person, average American checks their phone a day?
I would, if I, without any more context, I would guess somewhere in the range of 150.
344. I was giving them way more credit yes right I mean think about that the average adult spends X number of hours on screens not related to work a day fill in the blank what is it the average adult spends X or seven it's six to seven not related to work that's wild yep so what happens is people one in three adults report being too busy to enjoy life six to seven hours a day on a screen so you're awake for 16 hours you go to work for eight hours this is we always we've done this before we've broken down the day right you sleep for eight hours you work for eight hours you have four hours before
four hours after So you have four hours before, four hours after.
Six to seven hours are spent.
Now, I'm sure people are scrolling at work and stuff like that.
But checking their phones 344 times a day, six to seven hours on screens.
I don't have the time to enjoy life because I'm too busy.
This goes to the question, you know, as people ask me a lot as a coach and a trainer that's helped people transform their bodies.
when they when the question is okay i get it like we all need to train we all need to eat better we all need to sleep what about the person that doesn't have the time to do those things and i say who are those people and they say well i'm one i'm one of those people or they say my sister -in -law right or she just can't get healthy because she's so busy the first question i ask is do you have an iPhone.
If they say yes, I go to settings, go to battery, scroll down, change it to the last seven days and just tell me how much time you spent on social media.
Do you do social media for your job?
No, I don't. Okay. You spent four hours a day last week on social.
So there we're distracted.
We think we don't have time.
That is not the truth.
We're just telling ourselves that that story and we're distracted.
And I get it because it's comfort seeking.
It's numbing. And because we're not living with our hearts on fire, this is our medicine.
This is our pacifier because we just, we're so exhausted.
We're stressed from that misalignment.
That misalignment is brutal.
And if we can get more aligned with our values, with our purpose, with the things that light us up and we can start to behave in those ways, it all changes.
Your feelings change because it's bi -directional, right?
It goes identity, actions, behaviors, and feelings.
So your identity influences your actions and your behaviors, your identity.
I have agency. I can control my life.
I live with my heart on fire.
I will take risks. I can live with uncertainty.
I want to have a meaningful, purposeful, passionate life.
I'm the type of person that dot, dot, dot.
That creates a certain set of actions.
Those actions lead to fulfillment, happiness, joy, alignment.
But it also works the other way too.
If you feel misaligned, if you feel stressed, if you feel disillusioned, if you feel depressed, all of a sudden the actions you're going to take Take our scrolling, Netflix, ice cream, couch, short temperedness.
And then you go, I'm the type of person that doesn't have the time.
It's bi -directional.
We got to work from both ends of that candle.
Yeah. I think the other thing with the busyness part, I think busyness is in some ways an effort at comfort.
And what I mean by that is I think when we trick ourselves into being really busy, and I see this with my kids, friends, parents a lot, I think on some level, one of the things we're doing is we're trying to push away the moments of silence where we have to listen to or hear the thoughts in our head.
and i think we and i think it's a it's a it's a downward spiral because the more you push away that voice or you more the more you push away the spaces in our days in which that voice bubbles up we can't ignore it because we're not so busy right or scrolling which does the same thing the the less time we spend with our thoughts the less time we spend in our head the scarier they they are.
And the harder it is the next time to sit with them and to listen to them and to figure out what they're trying to tell you and to sit with the discomfort that oftentimes comes with them.
And so the busyness and the numbing and the scrolling in aggregate is creating an environment where we are so scared of the silence that we do everything possible to not feel it.
And then we we are living a life where we don't know where we have almost no awareness.
We have no idea what what we're feeling or why we're feeling it.
We can't understand why I get triggered by this thing and that thing or that person.
And I think that's where I think about busyness as being the the opposite of living with your heart on fire because and it's back to a little bit of what we talked about earlier, which is like the awareness piece is so important, as is the bravery and as is the the persistence.
And if you never allow yourself the silence long enough to hear it, then you'll never understand why you do what you do, why you believe what you believe, why you tell yourself the stories you do, and give yourself the space to tell better stories or to understand or to change the behaviors.
It's so good. There's a great quote, which is, you will never find peace in the place you go to avoid discomfort.
Yep. Right? So that is what you're saying is like, I don't want to be uncomfortable being bored.
I don't want to be uncomfortable in my own head exploring thoughts.
I don't even like working out.
Like if you can work out without ear pods in and you just like allow that moment so kind of like let your brain do the brain things but like meditation is the obvious example of this right you will never find peace in the place you go to avoid it's comfort it's comfort we have to go to like where are we where are we what are we when we're trying to avoid we're trying to pacify ourselves and we what we need to do is learn to To cry ourselves to sleep.
Instead of just kind of like, okay, binky time, right?
We just have to like sit in that a little bit for a little bit longer.
And whether it's, it doesn't need to be meditation or working.
You don't have to go for an hour long zone to run without headphones.
You don't need to go do a CrossFit workout.
You don't need to meditate.
Like, can we start with just paying attention?
Like, I think it's a really good, it's like, you know i was listening to a uh a recent podcast with brian johnson heroic and wrote the book arete which i areute which i read to my kids a lot and he i've read it to my parts of it to the gym as well gym yep and he was saying talking about shower thoughts it is the is one of the very few places we have left that there is no distraction actually since Since I've heard of it, I've taken a couple of showers and this is what I think.
It's like, it is. It's like you're putting yourself in this like solitary pod, you know, unless you have like you have little kids running through the bathroom and kind of like, and I went through that as well.
But my suggestion would be like, don't turn the music on and just kind of like when your brain starts to go, his saying is the thoughts that you think in the shower are what you care about the most. Mm -hmm.
And whether there's truth to that or not, when you're in the shower, be aware that you're thinking.
That is just called metacognition, the ability to think thoughts about your thoughts.
It is not rumination.
Rumination is a spiral that you don't allow yourself to pop out of with perspective.
Metacognition is thinking thoughts about your thoughts with perspective, stepping away from them and going, oh, this is interesting thing that I'm thinking these thoughts, as opposed to my boss hates me.
Why does my boss hate me?
I can't believe he hates me.
I hate my job and that coworker.
I should quit. You know what?
That's rumination. Instead of going, why do I feel like my boss doesn't like me?
And then popping up and thinking thoughts about that.
Again, going back to that's place number one to start this idea of a kind of the all surmise all the things right from the the pre -programming messaging that we've been giving to the busyness to the comfort seeking we have to think about things we just have to kind of become aware of our thoughts and the shower is such a cool place for that i also think like long car rides without any sort of you know stimulus i do like to listen to podcasts up or a a book up until the point where I go that's interesting and I pause you know and it's just like it's like a little kind of like a someone's interviewing
you almost right they're kind of going let's talk about this and they're just kind of plopping something in because sometimes you get in the car if you don't have that that lead in it'll kind of just spin on it kind of goes in the fragmented mind right and the fragmented mind is where we don't want to be be spending as much time that's what the mind will do it's what's supposed to it's scanning and what it's doing is it's scanning for problems that's what the way our brain is set up but if you get to focus fragment focus flow if you get to focus like here's a question we can focus on that can lead to
a flow state which is beautiful it's amazing it's what tony robbins calls the beautiful state which is what we're all talking about you you will find flow more often if you're are living with your heart on fire.
Yeah. I speak for, uh, hopefully all of us to say that we're glad you've taken a few showers lately.
Just a few. I actually overshower for sure.
I shower at least two times a day if not, and there's days that I will do three.
I shower right when I wake up.
I have to, I get out of bed and it's literally like I crawl out of bed.
I'm like, I sleep on the side of the bed with the bathroom door and I literally open the door, turn on the shower, get the shower it's like i i can't function without it i do too as well but my first one in the morning is a cold shower and then a hot shower in the end i did my i cold shower in the in the summer and so this morning with my first one so this is happy summer happy summer everybody we're going to leave it there that was our key distractions keeping you from living with your heart on fire fear of uncertainty and risk aversion self -doubt and limiting narratives busyness numbing and comfort
seeking you know i just might uh let me just add one thing on that I'm sorry.
The closing credits were about the role.
I feel like the idea – I just want to like double down on like the point of this conversation isn't to like shame people for anything, right?
It's to wake up. It's that.
It's to like kind of like wake up to this narrative.
We all have it. We all have fear.
We all have doubt. We all have distraction.
We all do. We all make decisions because of uncertainty all the time.
For sure. Sure. Like, and it, because of self, I have self -limiting thoughts all the time and I numb and I comfort seek and I pretend I fall victim to busyness and all love it.
So it's not a matter of like, this is what you're doing wrong.
It's to, it's, it's the, it's to wake up.
It's to remind you that the life you want isn't waiting for you at the end of perfect timing, right?
It's, It's there right now.
We just have to go get it.
Heart first. Can we be done now?
There's three more things.
Yes, we can be done.
Thank you very much for tuning into the show.
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Don't forget to tap the link in the show notes for today's full listener guide where we break down the key ideas and provide actionable steps to help you put them into practice.
Until next time, keep building health, finding freedom, and living with your heart on fire.
