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Hello, everybody. And welcome back to the psychology of your 20s, the podcast where we talk through some of the big life changes and transitions of our 20s and what they mean for our psychology.
All right. Hi, everybody.
Hello. I'm not gonna do my cheery little intro today.
I assume that you already know what we're talking about, given that you clicked on this episode and you probably also have guessed or assumed that this episode is going to be a little bit different, a little bit more vulnerable, open, dare I say, chatty, maybe not chatty, just honest.
And I felt really strange making this episode compared to my usual content.
You come here to learn about the psychology of your 20s and the psychology of flirting and breakups and career anxiety and transitions.
We're not gonna be really doing that today.
We're not gonna be really having, we're not gonna be having that usual structure and scientific approach.
I wanna just take a moment to really get you guys up to speed on what I've been going through.
For a long time, I've been doing this podcast for a very long time.
And along that journey, I've been, I would hope, transparent around what is going on in my own personal life.
Sometimes I've tried to create more of a distance or a space between my personal life and what I talk about on the show.
But it's very hard for it not to kind of infiltrate and come to the surface because the topics and the ideas and the opinions that I express are all derived from personal experience.
And because of that, it felt strange just moving on with regularly scheduled programming and not talking about something pretty serious and hard that I've been through recently, which is that I basically had a mental breakdown.
There it is, said it out loud.
I had a really, really rough time this past month that has completely really shaken me to my core and has kind of made me reconsider my place in the world, made me reconsider mental health in a complete new light, spiritual health in a new light, this decade in a new light.
And I really want to kind of share what that was like, what that experience was like going through it for those of you who might be going through something similar.
And like I said, I really debated talking about this.
It is so just inherently vulnerable.
But I've spoken about breakups, I've spoken about grief, I've spoken about losing family members, I've spoken about my physical health and why does the ball have to stop there?
Why do we then tend to shy away when it comes to talking about our mental health with the same openness and authenticity and honesty that we would discuss all these other topics and all these other experiences of this decade?
This is my reality at the moment.
It's something that I'm going through and as sad as it is, unfortunate as it is, I also know that there are many of you who are probably going through this as well and you feel so completely entirely alone.
And so whilst like this podcast is obviously about providing science and evidence in this self help space and giving you like factual wellness content, it's also about community and it's also about being able to see your experiences reflected back in thousands if not millions of others.
Whatever you're struggling with, I think there is a huge comfort that comes from knowing that you are not alone in that experience that there is someone somewhere elsewhere who is navigating the same challenges as you are.
The big problem I find or the big hurdle I find we're talking about, mental health very explicitly and not just saying, yeah, I have mental health struggles but being like, no, I've had a full mental breakdown, prolonged depressive episode, massive anxiety is that you do still recognize the stigma that is attached
even in this space, even though I've made, this is my career, I talk about psychology, talking about psychology and talking about the very real lived experience of mental health is quite different and is opening yourself up to a lot of misunderstanding and that's something that I've kind of accepted
in talking about this today is that, people can listen to this and just be like, what is she talking about?
Or maybe people will listen to this and be like, well, I'm not gonna listen to such an untrustworthy narrator from now on, because she's not talking about mental health in like, in like a guarded way, she's talking about it very openly and with great realness and that can be really confronting for some
people. So I would just ask for grace, this episode is not structured, it's gonna be a bit of a ramble and I've kind of accepted that some people might be shocked to hear this, some people might be confronted, so just checking on yourself as to where you are and if you think this will be helpful, please
listen on. If you just want like, to know what it's like, I guess, or to see, or to be able to provide help with for someone else who you know who might be going through this same experience, that is really my ultimate goal here, is to provide a lived experience for you to reflect on in your own life
when you confront scary topics such as, and scary ideas such as the ones that I've been working through.
If you have been listening for a while, you'll know that every now and again, I give like a mental health update because this is like a mental health podcast and a few months ago, I even gave like an update where I was like, I'm doing so well, I'm thriving, I'm living my best life, I'm like going off
my antidepressants, like everything is good, we're making forward progress and then things changed as they very often do with our brains and our minds and our perception and our health.
You think you're doing very well, but one of the realities of living with a mental health condition is that kind of in the back of your mind, you always know that there is a time that will come where it could get worse.
And so, even if you are feeling amazing and fabulous and enjoying life, it's a, there's a hesitancy.
There is a sense of like tiptoeing around that experience, like, oh, how long is this gonna last?
How long am I gonna feel like this?
Because you know that the other shoe might eventually drop.
You might get bad again and you hope not, but that is the case and that is what happened with me.
I went from being super, super happy and then there was just this slow descent and always in hindsight, can you see the path that you've taken, right?
In the moment, you just want to survive and push forward.
You're hoping that it's like hormonal or contextual or it's just because you're really stressed and then the stress fades and then, you know, the days go on and it's like, oh, I just can't get these thoughts out of my head.
My biggest fixation and the thing that really culminated in me really kind of just not being able to cope for a while there had to do with thoughts and anxieties around death.
I have very intense death anxiety.
Feels weird to say that out loud.
I'm sure some of you may have realized that or guessed it, but it's not something I talk about that much because to be honest, talking about it, it like puts it, like you squarely have to face it and it's right there and it's like incredibly terrible, inevitable fear.
It's I think the most profound fear to fear death because everything else in life, you know, you can kind of avoid or you can change your behaviors to avoid and death is one of those things that you just can't and you have to try and find a way to create a meaning in a finite life and to, you know,
have some form of comfort or vision or value or life philosophy that lets you push forward.
And I just kind of lost that.
I just no longer could access my purpose and my meaning and my life philosophy around why are we here?
What are we doing here?
Life is just this big inconvenient, meaningless thing and it almost felt like the universe was like collapsing in on me.
Like I'd be lying in bed and it was just like the absolute terror of knowing that this thing that you're terrified of is going to happen to you.
And then the equal terror of knowing that, you know, there's nothing you can do about it and no matter what you think about it, like it doesn't change what's going to happen.
And yeah, so gosh, dark, very, very dark.
And I think it's something that we all have at the back of our minds, right?
Everyone knows this.
There are just times in your life where you feel more, it's kind of like, how do I explain it?
It's like there's this weird fuzzy film, like a fuzzy transparent curtain between you and thinking about death.
And most of the time, you know, we've got our back turned to the curtain and we're enjoying everything that's in life.
And then other times you turn around and you peek behind the curtain and it's just so just incomprehensible that it really starts to get you down.
And then for me, things come up around time and meaning and love and connection and fear of seeing people I love pass away.
And you can see how the ball gets rolling real, real quick, really, really quickly.
I think the only time I haven't had these fears has been when I was someone who was quite spiritual and religious, you know, and suddenly, not suddenly and I just am not anymore.
It's just part of the life journey and the transition that I've gone through where I just no longer saw myself in the home of religion.
I see its value, I see the value of spirituality but it's just the current structures that have presented to me like I just don't really relate to them.
I'm kind of a woman of science.
Sometimes I don't really feel like it makes sense.
And I think that that detachment from a spiritual understanding of my life really has contributed to these cycles of really existential negative incomprehensible thoughts.
The point where I really started to realize like, oh no, like this is not going the way it should and I've gone through this before and it's like you can really, there's like a, it's like a flight path, right?
Like there's like a journey and you can like see the roadblocks and you like kind of know what's coming and you know that like once you get to a certain stage, it's like, you know, shit, like there's no turning back.
And when I realized that was when I was in Bali, before I went to Bali, I was so busy.
I had so much going on that it really meant that I couldn't really think about anything bigger or more profound than the present and what was happening right now.
And then I went on vacation, I went on holiday.
Interestingly, I was really excited.
Of course, not interestingly, obviously, I was very excited.
I was very excited to just like spend time with my mom and my cousin and my auntie and relax by the pool and drink pina coladas and go on hikes and like see the sights and go to the markets.
And actually what ended up happening was all the things that were keeping me anchored to the present and by that I mean my stress was lifted and suddenly all the thoughts that I'd been trying very hard to push down and suppress came flooding in.
And I did not have the tools to deal with it.
I spent, Bali was amazing but I spent a lot of time in my own head, in my brain, overworking and overthinking concepts, ideas, big ideas about the universe and the world and purpose and life and God and religion.
Not a fun place to be.
I think those thoughts have their time in place but they should really be explored when you feel mentally prepared for them.
My problem was that I hadn't provided myself with the space or the mental capacity to think about it.
To think about it when I needed to think about it at a time when I was more able to deal with how confronting it could be.
And so I always say this, you can avoid and you can avoid and you can avoid but it will come up at the most inconvenient time and that is what happened.
Then I went to New York.
I remember walking around the streets of New York and just being like, I really wish I could be having fun right now but everything feels so impermanent and everything just feels so tragic and terrifying.
And it's kind of like you cannot see the world except for from this place of finality and this place of, I don't know, that everything will eventually be gone.
And that imbues all of your experiences.
Everything that you perceive is imbued with this tinge of sadness, even sadness for the fact that one day this will be gone even though right now it isn't.
It's very, very mentally complicated.
I think it really comes from a detachment with the present.
I made an episode a couple of weeks back, maybe like a month now that was like the power of staying present.
Really, that was me trying to remind myself of that power and trying to reinforce my own habits when it came to this.
But by the time I got back to Australia, like things were not going well.
Things were not working out for me.
And I entered this pretty dark place where I could not really make sense of reality not in the sense that I was like experiencing psychosis or anything, but it just was like everything was very clouded.
Everything was overruled by constant repetitive thinking and a thought spiral.
It began to really make me want to withdraw.
I think my biggest fear when I'm going through a bit of an existential mental breakdown, whatever you want to call it, is passing it on to someone else.
I know this sounds very, very strange, but sometimes I believe that my thoughts could be contagious and that you're going to say something to someone that they've never considered before and it's going to really scare them.
And that is what really scares me is that I could plunge someone else into this situation in this dark downward thought spiral.
So I stayed silent about it for a while, very silent at my own detriment.
Then I started telling my boyfriend, but it was kind of with a laugh and a giggle and like, oh, my crazy brain.
Anyhow, I don't want to talk about it.
Let's move on. It always fascinates me that I know what to do, right?
I have the tools, the strategies.
I know how to work through a situation like this.
And one of the main pillars and one of the best things you can do for yourself is to open up and it's to share the burden.
It's a lot easier said than done.
You don't feel like you have the right almost.
You don't want to let people in because that would require you acknowledging that your situation is bad.
That is how I'll say it because that is how it was.
And then it was like almost a flip switched.
We went out one night, went out drinking with like my best friends.
It's like, I should be the happiest I've ever been in the world, ever been at any time, like I have the most beautiful friends.
I'm in this beautiful city.
And I woke up the next day in a panic and my whole body was shaking.
And I was stuck. I was stuck in my mind and I was stuck in this thought and it's almost like walking through a day and it's just like death, death, death, death.
Pretty fricking hard.
And that's when I realized that I really needed some help.
Luckily, my mom was in town.
So she ended up canceling like all of her work engagements for the rest of the week and stayed with me and my boyfriend stayed with me.
Well, we basically lived together, but he would come back from work every single night and just hold me.
Cause I didn't wanna leave my room.
I didn't wanna leave my house.
Everything was just confusing and overwhelming and loud.
Loud is probably the best way I can describe it and lonely and isolating.
You just feel like you are floating in space and no one else can understand your experience and you're just absolutely terrified.
And you don't know how you're gonna get back to like the mothership of reality and the mothership of rationality as well.
So my mom came and stayed with me for a week and then passed the baton over to my dad who came and stayed with me for another week.
And that two week period involved me not being able to eat, not being able to sleep.
And then when I did sleep, waking up in a sweat and shaking, just not wanting to leave the house.
Genuinely just being in a catatonic state.
Like I would just sit in bed and stare at the wall.
Trying really hard to do work, trying really hard to go to the gym and to go to my pottery classes and to see friends.
And it was not possible.
It was not happening for me at that time.
The other thing was mental health access in Australia.
And I'm gonna assume this is everywhere.
It's absolutely abysmal.
It's literally abysmal.
I called a crisis line, which I'll openly admit, I think crisis lines are amazing lifeline.
If you're in Australia, I'm sure there are other crisis lines in the US and the UK and elsewhere.
Lifelines are incredible, but this experience was not incredible because I called this woman and I was like, I need to see a psychiatrist.
I need to see an emergency psychologist.
I need help with something, please.
Like what do I do? Even though it was like I knew what to do and even I could not get the help I needed.
Like I was trying to find a psychologist.
I was trying to find a psychiatrist.
It was like six months wait period.
It's like, I can't wait six months.
Like I'm suffering right now.
That's unreasonable.
That's just unreasonable.
But I also understand the pressures on the system.
You call psychologists to be like, oh, I don't wanna take your case.
Sorry, I don't have a space.
There was one center that I called and I'm not gonna name them, but oh my God, were they just absolutely terrible?
They were absolutely terrible.
And I called them and I was like, this is what's happening.
And they were like, sorry, we can't help you.
And I was like, can you refer me to someone else?
They're like, no. And then later on, my mum called them back up and suddenly they had an appointment for her, but not an appointment for me because I understand it.
Like respect your boundaries, respect your peace.
But it was one of those things where it's like, am I untreatable?
Is that what you are implying and not accepting my case because you are a private clinic?
You get the system, but yeah, I call this helpline and I'm asking for help.
I'm like, this is what I need.
And she genuinely said to me, oh, are you on drugs?
I was like, no, it's an important question to ask.
I was like, no, I'm not on any drugs.
Are you having like withdrawals from alcohol?
No. And then you could see that she was like a bit puzzled.
And she was like, have you watched any scary movies lately?
I could not believe that she asked me that question.
I was like, no, I haven't watched any scary movies.
I'm mentally unwell.
Like I know what's wrong with me and it's not because I've watched Scream 4.
Like it was just this very eyeopening experience and a re -acknowledgement of how terrible and poor our systems actually are.
How, and if you know, I'm someone who is, I don't want to say an expert, but I talk about psychology for a living.
I also used to work in Australia's mental health system.
I helped design. Some of these systems helped like design, especially for children.
And I cannot navigate this system, who in the world is meant to be able to do that?
Who is meant to find the help that they need?
And eventually she was like, oh, you can go to the emergency room.
And the emergency room is the worst place to be if you are someone having a crisis around death anxiety.
Literally terrible suggestion from her, but I appreciate she was probably very overworked and they're doing the best they can.
They talk to hundreds, dozens of people a day who have very unique experiences.
So full respect to her, just wasn't the help that I needed.
And it felt like a stalemate.
It felt like an absolute stalemate.
I could go on and explain more of what that experience was like, but it was just genuinely so devoid of anything exciting.
There's nothing to report.
Like it's sitting in bed, crying every 30 minutes, staring at the ceiling, not talking to any of your friends, not really wanting to eat, not being able to sleep.
Just complete physical and mental exhaustion is the only way I can explain it.
The person who helped me, so, so much who got me through this was, well, three people was my parents and my partner.
I cannot imagine how stressful it would have been just having to watch someone not wanna do anything, not wanna move, not be able to get the help that they needed, just be so terribly overwhelmed for like this extended period of time.
But they were the ones who were like, no, we're gonna set small goals.
We're just gonna leave the house today.
We're gonna go for a walk.
We're gonna go to the animal shelter and play with some dogs.
My mom was even like, maybe I should get you a dog.
And I was like, part of me, like it was so funny.
I was kind of coming out of it by that stage.
And I was like, hmm, I know that that is probably not a great decision.
It's like, don't go food shopping when you're hungry, don't have a baby when your relationship is falling apart.
Don't get a dog when you're having a mental health crisis.
That is the three cardinal rules.
And they were the ones who really got me through it.
They were the ones who took phone call after phone call, who found anyone, someone who could see me as soon as possible, which was still two to three weeks away, but that was the closest that we could get.
They went and filled my medication scripts for me, filled the fridge with food, cooked for me, made sure that whatever I kind of needed, I had.
And then my friends, my, oh my gosh, my friends, it'd be so interesting and funny that I would be just sitting out in my backyard, crying about how meaningless this world felt.
And yet people would show up and show that they loved me.
And isn't that the most meaningful thing ever?
My friend Meg dropped flowers at my door.
My friend Sarah took me on, like, was like, Oh, I'll come and do anything for you.
Like, she called me like basically every single day.
My friend Kate like checked in on me, sent me reels.
Like, my friend Steph, like all of them were just so there for me and made sure that they, that I knew that I was in their thoughts and that I could talk to them, that I could reach them.
But they also respected the fact that I kind of needed to hermit.
To be fair, I didn't need to, but that was my inclination.
That was my instinct was to hide away.
They respected that and they continued to reach out.
I think it's a big problem when someone is really going through it with their mental health.
Like if you are their friend and you know it, but you expect them to have to reach out for you, it's like, well, that's not gonna happen.
That's just there. That is like the least, the last thing that they're thinking about.
It's like asking like a friend with like, a fractured spine to like, come and go for a walk with you.
It's like, that's not what they're thinking about.
That's not something that they're capable of checking in with you, maintaining friendships is incredibly difficult.
And it's not that there isn't a desire and a need and a longing, but when everything in your life is just completely devoid of meaning and love and a sense of joy and you just feel completely broken, like those friendships, as much as you do care about them, like you don't think about the consequence
of not talking to someone for a month.
You don't think about what that's gonna do to your relationship, you're just trying to get through it.
So it's a good reminder and it was a reminder for me.
Like if you have a friend going through a rough time, just reach out.
It's not embarrassing.
It's not awkward. They just might not reply to you, but at least they have that message.
And there's no one who I've ever spoken to who's been like, oh, I wish that someone hadn't reached out.
I wish that I had less support.
I wish that I'd known less people loved me.
Like it's not how it works.
So that was like a really valuable, valuable lesson.
And other valuable lesson was for me, medication is really, really important.
And I do think that a lot of my problem is, problem condition is derived from something biological.
And I know that there are a lot of different suggestions to do with this and to do with the efficacy and the success of SSRIs or antidepressants, just do what works for you.
There is a lot of research and there is a lot of new research that says that other things are also really useful and more cognitive mental therapies or talk therapies are useful.
For me, that is not the case.
I look at my life and everything is actually quite spectacular and I'm very, very lucky to have what I have.
For me, you can almost notice like a biological shift because nothing else in your life really changes.
And then suddenly you're just in this pit and you don't know how to get out.
So the medication was really, really useful.
And it was like, it was so strange, but I was almost like setting myself many daily goals.
Like, but this time it wasn't for like, moving ahead in my career and it wasn't for fitness.
It was like, just leave the house.
Just do one essential task today.
Just call one person and slowly and surely you start to climb the ladder out of the hole and then you fall back a little bit.
It's never gonna be linear, but you ride the good times, you ride out the wave of the good times.
That's the difference between normal life and I think going through this is or going through anything that's very difficult and very, very hard is that in normal life, you kind of just don't really notice when things are just even a slightly bit better than they usually are.
You kind of just take it for granted.
But when things are going not that well, every small thing that makes you smile, every moment where you just have a bit of peace and silence in your brain, oh my gosh, that's all I ask for, that is a blessing.
And that is something that you feel incredibly immensely grateful for.
So I really rode those happy waves, even if it was for three minutes, if it was for an hour, I was fully present in that moment.
And then I did finally get to see someone.
It was still a long wait.
And sometimes I think I'm like, no, they're not gonna be able to help me.
Like I already know everything I need to know.
Not true. And it's not just about knowledge and information and it's about a different perspective.
And it's about having someone neutral who can really help you out.
So I'm feeling a bit better now.
I'm slowly coming out of it.
I'm still having hard days.
I was at my pottery class last night and these dark thoughts came back and I got a bit of an adrenaline jolt in a shock and felt the need to like run away and harm it again, but I pushed through.
That's really all you can do at this point.
It's when you get to that point of being at such a low, low stage and just rock bottom mentally and psychologically.
And I'm sure I'll probably be there again.
You just, you take everything that you can and every moment and every skill and every resource that you can muster and you take that and you put it towards just feeling even 1 % better each day.
And that's really, really tough and it requires strength.
But like that example from last night, like you just in some ways have to ride the wave of the good and the bad and just let the thoughts come and let them move on.
So I'm still not 100 % back to normal.
I don't know, it might take a little while but things are looking up and I wanted to be open and honest with you that this is the reality of living with mental health.
It's probably, or maybe your reality as well.
And we don't talk about it.
And we don't acknowledge it.
And we don't see stories of it in the media unless it's someone depicted as going quote unquote crazy.
Unless it's someone depicted as being violent.
It's not, it's just such a simplistic view of mental health.
It also looks like me, someone who knows the system, someone who talks about this all the time, still being confronted with incredibly hard thoughts to manage and not really knowing how to get out of it.
Not knowing a path forward, you are not alone.
You are not alone in that experience.
I absolutely promise you, please reach out to anybody and everybody, reach out to those who love you, reach out to mental health services.
And also if you are someone who struggles routinely with their mental health, the best time to get care and to get healthcare and to get a therapist or a psychiatrist is actually when you're feeling well because you cannot predict when these waves will crash over you.
You cannot predict the cycles.
You cannot predict when you might slip and fall back into this kind of dark space.
So this is your reminder, even if you're listening to this right now and you're like, I'm actually doing really, really fine.
I'm not triggered at all, but I know I have been in the past and I have been before then.
Get help when you are healthy.
It will prepare you for times like the one I was in where it's an emergency and you don't have the systems in place.
I know it's easier said than done and sometimes that's not even available to us.
But if you can, it is insurance.
You cannot afford to not look after your mental health.
That's something that my mom said to me.
She's like, you are someone who cannot afford to do this.
This is like having a chronic illness.
You wouldn't let your diabetes get to this point.
You wouldn't let your, you know, if you were diagnosed with cancer, you wouldn't skip your follow -up appointments and to see if the cancer come back, if you're in remission or like, you wouldn't do that.
So don't do it with your mental health either.
It's just as valuable.
I wanna thank you for, I'm gonna thank you in advance for your kindness and for your respect.
I know that it's a private situation, but I hope by making it a bit more public, people feel seen, people feel heard, people know how to support their loved ones and you don't feel alone because that would have been very, very useful for me during that time.
If you have any further questions or yeah, I would love to hear from you at That Psychology Podcast.
You know, on Monday we will be back to regularly scheduled programming.
We're gonna talk about right person, wrong time.
So we'll be moving on.
We're moving back to what we normally talk about.
Thank you for giving me this space to just talk at you for half an hour about my mental health.
It's actually been quite therapeutic.
So I appreciate the mental load that you took on of listening.
Make sure that you are following along to hear more episodes.
And if you enjoyed this episode, maybe you didn't, maybe it was quite dark, I apologize.
But if you enjoy the podcast in general, please leave a five -star review.
Gonna leave some links to some services in the description.
If you need them, please don't hesitate to use them.
That's what they're there for.
Even if you think that what you're going through isn't that serious, I don't think that's for you to decide.
I think that objectively, if you're struggling, you are struggling.
So those services are there for you.
Please use them. Please, please reach out for help.
Be kind to yourself, be gentle with yourself.
It's all of our first times alive and we will talk soon.
Hey, y 'all, Nimini here.
I'm the host of a brand new history podcast for kids and families called historical records.
Executive produced by Questlove, The Story Pirates, and John Glickman, historical records brings history to life through hip hop.
Get the kids in your life excited about history by tuning into historical records.
Listen to historical records on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Hey, everybody, this is Matt Rogers.
And Bowen Yang, we've got some exciting news for you.
You know, we're always bringing you the best guest, right?
Well, this week we're taking it to the next level.
The one, the only, Catherine Hahn is joining us on Lost Culturists.
That's right, the queen of comedy herself.
Get ready for a conversation that's as hilarious as it is insightful.
Tune in for all the laughs, the stories, and of course, the culture.
Don't miss Catherine Hahn on Lost Culturists.
Listen to Lost Culturists on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Hey, I'm Jana Prudenti.
And I'm Jamaican Jackson Gadsden.
We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts.
There's a lot to figure out when you're just starting your career.
That's where we come in.
Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice.
And if we don't know the answer, we bring in people who do.
Like negotiation expert, Maurie Teheri -Por.
If you start thinking about negotiations as just a conversation, then I think it sort of eases us a little bit.
Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
I'm Joe Gatto. I'm Steve Byrne.
We are two cool moms.
We certainly are. And guess where we could find us now?
Oh, I don't know. The iHeart Podcast Network.
That's right, we're an official iHeart podcast.
And I'm super excited about it.
I am too. I thought Two Cool Moms was such a fun podcast, but now it's even more funner and cooler and heartier.
That's right, it's more iHeartier.
I knew it. Check your heart rate, we're here at iHeart.
Yeah, you can find us wherever you listen to your podcasts or on the iHeartRadio app.
