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Hello everybody and welcome back to the psychology of your20s.
The podcast where we talk through some of the big life changes and transitions of our 20s and what they mean for ourpsychology.
Helloeverybody. Welcome back to theshow.
Welcome back to thepodcast, newlisteners, oldlisteners, wherever you are in theworld.
It is so great to have you here back for another episode as we of course break down the psychology of our20s.
If our 20s could be summarized in anyway, I think we could best describe them as the decade of transition so much about who weare, what welike, ourenvironment, ouridentity, our relationships as well are in this state offlux.
And a lot of that is caused by the very concrete milestones weface.
And a huge one for those of us who went on to go to college or university isgraduation.
Forme, when I was atuniversity, it still very much felt like an extension of my high school and teenageyears.
And adulthood was kind of creeping up into the picture on thesidelines.
And even though I had ajob, even though I was in what felt like a very adult relationship and I hadbills, uni was this weird vacuum where I still felt like I had a lot of permission to figure things out and be slightlychaotic.
But the further you get intoit, themore, like Isaid, adult life creeps in and then suddenly you've just blinked and you were walking across the state and you were getting yourdiploma.
And it kind of feels like at thatmoment, you should have all the answers or at least a few more than you had when you firststarted.
But for so many ofus, that is the exactopposite.
We have no idea what we want todo.
We feel increasinglylonely.
And sometimes we even get caught up in the nostalgia of those years and what theyoffered.
And I really want to talk about ittoday.
So I'm bringing on a wonderful guest to discuss the psychology of the post graduationblues.
WelcomeLiz. Tell the audience about yourself a littlebit.
Thank you so much for havingme.
It's so nice to talk with youtoday.
Yes, I am a therapist in the Washington DC area and I'm an author of thebook, This Book is Shieber ThanTherapy, a known answer in sky to improving your mentalhealth.
And I work with a lot of young people in their 20s who are just getting out of college and entering the world and youknow, they're coming to this excitingplace, WashingtonDC, but it's not always thateasy.
Oh mygosh, I can absolutely imagine likeWashington, theysay, especially I feel like a little of the people who would be going there would be so ambitious aswell.
Absolutely.Yes. And so many incredible people who are smart andambitious, but these same qualities can also be challenging when you come to a place like DC where there's so many different options of things to do and it's hard to kind of figure out what your niche is and where you want togo.
And so I feel really privileged to be able to work with with so many amazing clients to be able to talk about some of theseissues.
And youknow, what I findreally, really valuable about that islike, I'm sure they're like some smart cookies in Washington who are like ready to take on politics in theworld.
And the fact that what we're talking about today still comes up is just a real testament to how universal this is and what we're talking about is the post graduationblues.
Can you kind of speak to what that actuallyis?
I feel like it's in thename, but maybe you can give like a bit more color toit.
Right.Absolutely. So in my training as atherapist, I have a lot of experience in working with the grief and loss andbereavement.
So I often look at the post graduation blues through the lens ofloss.
Theloss. So grief is a natural reaction to anything that you cherish or anything that youlove.
And for a lot of us going to college and going touniversity, Imean, it's a really amazing experience where withpeers, we get to talk about bigideas.
We get to learn about really interesting things and have all these new experiences and live in this area where there's a lot of options for exploring hobbies and social interaction and all of thesethings.
So, youknow, it's for many of us not to say that there aren'tchallenges, but for many ofus, it's such a goodexperience.
And then all of a sudden aftergraduation, we're leaving thatbehind.
That's a real loss and anytime you have changed plusloss, chances are you're going to experience some feelings ofgrief.
Oh mygosh,absolutely.
And it's this sense of likeemptiness,right?
Like youcherished, as yousaid, something so highly and it may not have been a person or even anythingmaterial, but just like a state ofbeing, like a time in your life that felt so free and soexciting.
And I think like a big reason why we experience like post graduation blues is justlike, it's just this sense of like time is moving on and I have to change withthat.
So what are some of like the big feelings to like define thistransition?
Absolutely. So grief can involve thingslike, so grief sometimes people think that grief is anemotion, but grief isn't actually anemotion.
grief is a whole range of feelings and so it could involvesadness,disappointment,regret,frustration,irritability,numbness.
So grief can really be a roller coaster and this roller coaster is pretty common in the post graduationblues.
Youknow, one day you might feel like you have it all together and you're excited about your future and you're excited about thepossibilities.
Youknow, the next day you might be feeling a lot of anxiety because you're unsure of when you're going to get a job or how you're going to pay off debt from university or who you're going to livewith.
So so it can really feel unsettling because it is as writing this roller coaster ofemotions.
And I love that metaphor because that is exactly how I felt when I first graduated uni and it'slike, it was a whileago, but I just remember one day I would wake up and belike, oh mygosh, like I am soyoung, I'm so excited for myfuture.
I could do anything and then the next day I'd belike, I'm absolutely paralyzed by the fact that I do not have this bigot out and everyone around medoes.
Do you think that like that comparison kind of plays arole?
Yeah.Absolutely. Youknow, because every time we talk to someoneelse, youknow, we're not getting the wholepicture.
If you see someone post something on LinkedIn or social media or Instagram orwherever, youknow, you're only seeing a very small snapshot to that person's life and what you're seeing might look incredible andamazing, but chances are there's so many otherfactors.
And I talk to a lot of clients and some of these clients from the outside seem like they have the perfect job and the perfectlife, but that doesn't mean that everything feels perfect forthem.
No, I speak about this so much and it seems soobvious,right?
If I sat down withsomebody, a friend of mine andsaid,Hey, did you know that like what you see on social media isn'treal?
They'd belike,yeah, ofcourse,Gemma, ofcourse, I knowthat.
But really actually think about it in like the deep part ofyourself, like really hold that information because it's very easy to belike,yeah, that's notreal.
But do you actually believeit?
Do you actually believe it to the point where you are no longer comparing yourself toit?
Andagain, back to myexperience, like LinkedIn was likemy, was enemy number one to me when I was job hunting and I was trying to sort things out because the other component of social media and LinkedIn and those sides is that it is about selfpromotion,right?
Right. The whole premise is to look your best because people want to look their best for their friends and for people theyknow, but also for like future connections andlike, youknow, futurebosses.
So there is like this whole aspect of it that is performative and we just don't seeit.
Right.Absolutely. We see like the perfectly touched up head shot andthe, youknow, recent job title and all of these things and we'renot, we're not seeing the struggles that it took to get there or the whole picture behind thescenes.
Yeah. And bringing it back to like postgraduation, I feel like it's this huge sometimes like separation between a lot of a lot of people having some part of their future have sorted out or at least seeming like theydo.
And then it's like other side of people just absolutely having noidea.
And it does feellike, youknow, like theold, the further you get out ofschool, the more pressure it is to like conform and the more pressure it is to like have ananswer.
What about like that ambiguity is sodistressing?
That's such agood, a good point because because I've been thinking about my clients for some of them who even findtheir, their quoteunquote, perfect job and then they're in their perfect job and it doesn't feel the way they thought it would feel or that it works more challenging thatthey, than they thought it wouldfeel.
And I think we have all this pressure more than ever to kind of find ourniche,right?
Youknow,we, so many of uswere, it was drummed intous.
You find yourpassion, find yourpassion.
And that's an incredibly difficult thing to do in this world where there's so many options or so manychoices.
So what I encourage my clients rather than to find your passionto, to follow your curiosity because the more curious you are about things and the more you learn aboutsomething, the more passionate you're going tobecome.
And so youknow, finding your passion issuch, youknow, that's such a heavy burden to bear because that's just a not a easy thing todo.
Ohno, it literally is not and it's also sometimesaccidental,right?
Like it is one of those things that when you go looking forit, you never findit.
It's likelove, do you know what Imean?
Right. And so it's like you kind of have to do a lot of trial anderror.
But when it's like you're so used to the structured environment of schooling where it'slike,yes, there is like a timeline foreverything.
There is this ultimate goal that you're always working towards that like it is a privilege to be able to explore the privilege to havechoices, feels verydaunting.
Youknow, I'm sure like a lot of your clients come to you and arelike,oh, maybe I should go back and do my masters or something likethat.
Do you think that sometimes we find a lot of comfort in like that structure and that's why we want to return to school or like that's why we findthat.
Sometimes I was like drawn back to thoseenvironments.
Right.Absolutely. I think when we get uncertain or onstudy, we crave stability and we crave security and safety and and forsome, theythink,well, I'll get my masters or I'll go back to school because then I can have that safety and securityagain, at least for a littlewhile.
Yeah. And then it just puts you in like so much moredebt.
Right.Exactly. But but really it's just sort ofpostponing, postponing that insecurity or that that instability and and I think for some of us are or a lot of work with my clients involves getting comfortable with being uncomfortable and getting getting getting more comfortablebeing, youknow, sitting withdiscomfort,right?
Youknow, sitting with the fact that like it's okay that I don't have it all figuredout.
It's okay that I don't know where I'm going to be in five years or 10 years or it's okay that I don't know exactly what I want my career to looklike.
And if we can kind of get to thatplace, it becomes easier totolerate.
And I really like that point oflike, I think once the discomfort becomes easier totolerate, it's less of a factor in your decisionmaking.
Right. Have you found that like it once people arecomfortable, they actually find it easier to belike,yeah, I can commit to something or I can like be more open toopportunity.
Exactly. I think it takes sitting being able to sit with discomfort makes it easier to take that first step because I think when we're so afraid of beinguncomfortable, we're sort of looking for the perfect thing or it's really easy to kind of shutdown,right?
Butif, but what we want to do is be able to take babysteps,right?
And be able to say toourselves,like, I don't have it all figuredout, but this job seems interesting or I like doing these types of tasks or I'm curious about this field and being able to just take those tiny steps that are going to gradually lead us in the direction of where we want to gopersonally,professionally.
Yeah. And it's like chasing curiosity instead of chasing like perfection and chasing likesecurity.
Right. It'slike, I don't actually need to have it all figuredout.
That's not my criteria for sayingyes.
But my criteria for saying yes is not that this needs to be part of like a huge lifelongplan.
It'slike, is this like something that I'm excited by rightnow?
Right.Exactly.So,okay.
The loss of like that academic structured environment is a hugecomponent.
But another hugepart, which I honestly think is like a bigger element of this and I feellike, you know what I'm going tosay, but it's likerelationships,right?
It'sfriendships.Right.
And youknow, I went to like a university that a lot of people came from out of state to cometo, which is not very common inAustralia.
But I'm sure I'm I think in the US and otherplaces, it's morecommon.
And there was like this period like of like six months after Igraduated, of like a mass Exodus where everyone just likedispersed.
And I think that really like contributed to a lot of thestress.
Why do you think it isthat, youknow, those loss of relationships can be souncomfortable, even if we know what's going tohappen?
Well, college oruniversity, youknow, whole your whole life up until the point you've always been together with a group ofpeers.
You've always had a group of people in similar circumstances and similarage.
And now all of asudden, like you losethat.
And that's what that's again kind of going back to theloss.
It's a really big loss of just not having a large group of people who are all going through similarcircumstances.
Youknow, then all of a sudden you're in your first job and you're working with people of all different ages or you're back at home and you're with yourfamily.
And it's and and it just doesn't feel thesame.
There's and even if you're still staying in touch with yourfriends, youknow, you don't get to see them for lunch every day or you don't get to study with them everyafternoon.
So these changes in your routine can really be hard to adjustto.
Oh, I totally found that in mycircumstances, it was like the shift from having they were part of myroutine,right?
They're part of ourerrands, they're part of our dailylives.
I would see them like every singleday, sometimes multiple times a day because we lived soclose.
Everybody was doing the samething.
And now it's like the shift to a lot of long distancefriendships.
That's a hugeone. It's a greatone.
But then also it's like this fragmentation where it'slike,okay, some of us are traveling and some of some of my friends are like move back home with their parents and some of them are getting married and some of them are doing their masters orunemployed.
And there is no longer thislike, Ithink, shared touchpoint, the shared thing that we're all goingthrough, which isuni, which iscollege, which is likeschool.
So it'slike, youknow, I'm sure you obviously knowthis, but it's like one of the biggest things is like similarity ofexperiences.
Do you say a lot of yourclients, not justlike, youknow, it's not just that they feel like then no longer in touch with theirfriends, but then losing them alltogether?
Absolutely. I also see my clients go through maybe the way to put it is like friendship drift where relationships are kind of growapart.
And they still treasure that time that they had in schooltogether, but they just aren't as close and the relationship maybe doesn't feel the same or if they have a reunion a yearlater, it just doesn't feel the way they expected it tofeel.
And some friendships even end and war or people growapart.
And that doesn't mean that anybody's done anything wrong or that you made amistake.
This happens sometimes and I try to encourage my clients to think about the fact that even if a friendship drifts apart or even if itends, it doesn't mean that the time you had together in university wasn'tmeaningful.
That's relationships that could have been incredibly meaningful for that time and for your development and for what you learned about like yourself in theworld, but sometimes friendships do change overtime.
What advice would you have for people going throughthat?
Because I feel like it's normally not justone,right?
It's normally like a group of people or it's a whole like system that notsystem, but like a whole friendship structure that kind of fallsapart.
So what advice would you have for somebody experiencingthat?
So my first advice would be to name and accept what you'refeeling.
So if you're feeling loss or sadness or disappointment or frustration to be able to name it and be able to accept it without judgments and be able to say like I'm feeling really sad right now and that'sokay.
Because sometimes what happens is we'll feel sad or we'll feel disappointed but then we'll shame ourselves for having thatfeeling,right?
Like we'llsay, youknow, I'm feelingsad, but I shouldn't feel sad because I've got so much going for me or other people have itworse.
And thenwe've, and then now we feel guilty andsad, which doesn't helpanybody,right?
So youknow, being able to acknowledge and accept your feelings and without judgingthem, I can help the feeling kind of move through you a little bit morequickly.
And by kind of accepting those emotions and and and also learning to hold two emotions at the same time can be reallyimportant.
Youknow, I'm feeling sad and I'm also feeling excited about thepossibilities.
Youknow, both of those things can be true at the sametime.
And once we can kind of start to interact with our feelingsdifferently, that frees us up to be able to take small actions oflike, youknow, maybe tomorrow I'm going to study at a new coffee shop where I'm going to job hunt at a new coffee shop where I'm goingto, youknow, ask that person to meet up for awalk.
Or so we can start to reestablish and create newrelationships.
Yeah. And it's like not just holding twoemotions, but holding twotruths.
Yes.Like, youknow, like this friendship ischanging.
But like yousaid, it doesn't mean that it's not stillvaluable.
It doesn't mean that we don't still have some form of arelationship.
And that was something that a lot ofmy, youknow, my own experiences really taught me with like the post graduation blues was so much ischanging.
And sometimes I think it feels like it demands you to make big decisionslike,okay, me and this person are connectinganymore.
Well, they're not myfriend.
Like blank blank slate blank space like they're not myfriend.
This is all toomuch. And just to cut people off or to feel very likeemotional.
And I think it is importantto,yeah,again, be able to recognize not just what youhad, but what they still offer you just ina, in a lessercapacity.
And nothingis, I say this to people all the time and to myself all thetime.
Nothing is ever going to come close to the relationship that you have with your university or your collegefriends, especially if you lived in the same house withthem, especially if you lived in the same dorm or in the same like sorority or fraternityhouse.
Like that is an incredibly heightened artificial way of like being aroundpeople,right?
Like you do not see that anywhereelse, maybe then likemarriage.
And so you might not find relationships that are as close and as likeintense, but you might find people who like fit better with who you arenow.
Does that makesense? I lovethat.
Yeah, to be willing to adapt and be okay withfeelings, with relationships that don't feel the same as they did when you were inuniversity.
Yeah, because it'sintense.
Like,yeah, it's sointense,right?
It's,it's, it's incredibly artificial to have that level of likecontact.
You get to know people really quickly and you know so much about them and you know the routines and it just doesn't always happen when you're aftergraduation.
Yeah, because who has time to like spend every daytogether,right?
Because you're atwork.
Sometimes you're at multiple jobs and youhave, youknow, people meet theirpartners.
That's a bigone, Ithink, that comes with like post graduation blues is this shift from having a wide group of friends to maybehaving, youknow, your partner who often comes first and then the friends aroundthat.
And it's just like a whole relationalshift.
So we're going to take a breaknow, but when we comeback, I want to talk to you about how we can cope with thatshift, how we can embrace fear and some of youradvice.
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So when it comes to post graduation blues this might be an impossible question but as a therapist how long do you typically see itlasting?
Is the challenging question because post graduation blues like I mentioned before it's very similar to grief and grief is going to be veryindividual, it's going to depend on that person'scircumstances, it's going to depend on how they've handled lossesbefore, it's going to depend on their support systems but I would say if the post graduation blues are really impacting your ability to function after a couple of weeks or after a month or so or I mean honestly if you're suffering and it's really impacting your ability tofunction, don't hesitate to reach out for support whether that's individual therapy or group therapy can actually be really fantastic because you get the benefits of therapy but you're also healing in a group which can have uniquebenefits, there's also really great books out there on self-development but I would really encourage folks that if they are having a hard time and it's really impacting their ability to job search or to engage in self-care or their sleep suffering or they're not eating well or they're drinking too much orengaging, you really rely on mood alteringsubstances, that might be a sign that okay I've got to get somesupport.
Oh yeah absolutely and I feel likeit's, those are like allbig, you know big indicators that there is a level of coping that perhaps you're not adjusting to and that's totallyokay, it's a huge change but I do feel like if like after a year you're still thinking about oh I wish I was backthere, there's such a deep sense of longing if like I would give anything to have that again or alwaysreminiscing, not being able to moveon, I feel like most of the time those feelings should fade by thattimeline,right?
Like amongst the people around me it was you know everyone still has those moments of being like wow like I really miss the structure of uni and I miss my friends and I miss like my life but after like a year it's kind of like what now I kind of like my newlife.
At that point I would love to see someone investing in their new life and setting up new goals and figuring out other things that they can bring themexcitement, enjoy andmeaning.
Yeah it's like you've had the time tomourn, hopefully and then you've had the time to also perhaps be a little bit more proactive and also justsettle, just settle in hardemotions.
I feel like that is a part of I feel like you know I'm guilty of doing this as well where it's always like what can you be doing actively to like help yourself and to heal and to moveforward?
It's like sometimes it is just time and it is just like feeling again comfortable with the discomfortright?
Right and also accepting that there's going to be a part of you that is going to miss university forever that that grief is going to be there because you really cared about that time of your life and that was a really meaningful time of your life and there is going to be a small part of you or a part of you that's going to that is going to forever miss that and that'sokay.
The reason that it's that you miss it is because it was it was important toyou.
I really like thatsentiment.
What kind of strategy is or copingmechanisms?
Do you think that recent graduates can use to kind of manage the feelings ofuncertainty,anxiety, but also nostalgia and the grief as you spokeabout?
Right, so I always encourage my clients if they're you know feeling not feelingright, they know that their mental health isn't where they want it to be to really pay attention to the basics and those are things like youknow, move try to move your body every day in someway, drinkwater, getoutside, pay attention tosleep.
Be really mindful about alcohol use because that can intensify feelings of anxiety anddepression.
So start with the basics and make sure you're getting some social outlets or some outlets to becreative.
So that's a great place tostart.
I would also suggest that kind of what like we talked about to to start to learn how to engage with your emotions a little bit differently to start to name what you're feeling to accept what you'refeeling.
Don't judge what you're feeling and also really pay attention to your inner dialogue because sometimes the way we talk to ourselves can be incredibly harsh and critical andmean.
So I really encourage my clients to pay attention to how they're talking to themselves and just and to ask themselves you know what would I tell a good friend you know what what advice would I give them and and to try to start treating themselves like they're afriend.
I love that advice and I say that to people all the time where it's like it's so much easier to be kind and to be compassionate and to be forgiving to other people and never as easy to do it toourselves.
So it's like okay if your best friend came to you and was like I'm really worried that I'm never going to find my dreamjob.
What would you say tothem?
You would probably say like maybe your dream job doesn't existyet.
Maybe it's going to take sometime.
Maybe it isn't about what a dreamjob.
Maybe it's about the life you create outside ofwork.
Like there is so much wisdom that we save for other people that is would be so valuable forourselves.
I always find that and the other thing I always say is like especially withanxiety.
Anxiety and excitement feel verysimilar.
They have like thesame.
Sotrue. Don't they have like the same physiological like physicalorigin?
Yeah you know hand start getting a bitsweaty.
Get those butterflies in yourstomach.
You have a physical symptoms of anxiety or really similar toexcitement.
Yeah and so I'm always like okay yeah that feeling could beanxiety.
Like you're anxious about finding your ownway.
You're anxious about feeling lost or anxious about feeling lonely or you could be excited about the fact that you don't now you don't have this huge time commitmentanymore.
Now like you could gotraveling.
Now you do have more freedom to progress in your career rather than waiting to graduate before you really like getstarted.
Now you do have time to really choose friends that are really important that you know that are maybe more suited to that part of your life that you'rein, rather than just like convenient as hard as thatsounds.
And more time to just like see life beyond education because I really find that what's so tricky about post graduation is it is the first time ever that we are not within an educationalenvironment.
We think this is our first time spending more than like four months since out ofschool.
Like that is going to bescary.
It's like I it's like a zoo animal like finally being released into the wildright.
Yeah I have a lot of clients who really struggle with not receiving regular feedback because their whole life going through school going through university they etch every quarter every assignment every at the end of every semester at the end of every year they knew exactly where theystood.
They got a grade or they got a you know marks on paper or they got feedback from their professor from theirteacher.
And now they're in this in the work world or their job hunting and there's no regularfeedback.
There's no clear indicator of like how am I doing and that's incredibly hard not to getthat.
And some of my work with clients involves learning how to give ourselves feedback and how to reflect on like what am I proud of or what did I do welltoday.
And that's not easy because for our entire lives up until the point we've been getting feedback in the academicsetting.
Now that you've said that it's just like really hit me because I see that so many people around me and like people who message me and people who are like my friends and you're totallyright.
How do we know that we're doing a goodjob.
We have absolutely no like barambita forit.
We have no way of providing ourselves with the validation ourselves and that's likecrazy.
How do you suggest people like check in with themselves and give feedback tothemselves.
So one one activity to try if you're interested in journaling or even if you're not that into journaling but just want to jot a few things down at the end of the day but to ask yourself at the end of the day you know what are my wins you know what are my proud of and your wins don't have to behuge.
It doesn't have to be like I got a job you know it could be your win could be I went on a walktoday.
I updated myresume. I met a friend forcoffee.
I cleaned mykitchen. I mean your wins could be anything but just things that you're proud of that you did that create a some positive momentum and and to spend some time reflecting on those things and even writing them down because it's so incredibly easy to look at our to-do list and to think oh my gosh I have so many more things that I so many things I didn't get to or I have so much more I need to do and then we forget to actually take stock of what we actually did and and it's important to give ourselves credit for those things and to reflect on on what we areachieving.
Oh absolutely and the other thing is like actually make goals for the next year because a lot of the time you end up meeting them and I know that sounds wild but once you have made it obviously the goals cannot be like I want to be a millionaire by 2025 because that's not a capable but if you were like yeah I really want to have a job by this time nextyear.
I really want to have a thousand dollars in savings whatever it is you will often find that there will come a point where you will get back to get to look back at that entry and you're like okay I actually did that and there is a sense of pride that that feels very similar to the pride you would get when you got an A or when you completed something like an assignment or an exam it might not be the same in the same environment it might not be of the same like the same stakes but if you like also our baseline for what feels like an achievement also kind of decreases in a sense aswell.
Right yeah I love that being able to set realistic goals and get that sense of accomplishment when you meet that goal or when you take action towards thatgoal.
Well that really leads to my next question you've like provided me with the segue which is you know if you are a racing graduate how do you set realistic goals and expectations about yourself and your life during this transitional period how do you stop yourself from setting me I want to be a millionaire goal or I want to be a CEOgoal.
So one thing I encourage my clients to do is to take a look at their values and just spend some time identifying what their values are because that can help shape what goals they want toachieve.
For example if they value travel then you know that might impact what types of goals they set or they value community or they value financial stability you know once you identify your values that can really help be a guidepost for setting goals that are going to be in line with what you want and are going to berealistic.
Also I just want to throw out there too that if you set an ambitious goal and you don't meet it that's okay maybe you've got part of the way there so I think it's okay to you know if you don't meet your goal that's not the worst thing worst thing in the world because chances are you you definitely made progress and you know what this might sound a little bit wild to say but there are a lot of people out there who never that like never would have dreamed of even selling that goal who never would have even thought it possible to suggest that to themselves so it's pretty amazing that you were that ambitious in the first place it shows a lot of gusto like yeah absolutely and the other thing that I always think about is um what's the rush like what's the rush you know what like the what the average age to graduate in the US is 22 mate 22 yeah that sounds about right we won 22 somewhere in that range that's wild to me because that is so young that is so young there's a lot of life to live yeah and I'm sure you're probably you would probably look at some of those people and then like you are you are a child like you I wish I was that young again like you have no idea there's so much time and I always talk about like the seasons of life and like you are at like you're in like season one of your like 21 pot tv series like you are only just beginning there are so many relationships and so much character development to happen like so many plot twists don't you want to save some of the best things for a little while later like if you achieved everything you want it within the next like two to three years what like what's next yeah and you bring up such a good point uh something I see a lot with my clients is a frustration where they really want to do meaningful work and but oftentimes your first job out of college or university the tasks that you're going to be given may not feel that meaningful that they might feel kind of boring or inconsequential and and being able to have patience to realize that this is a stepping zone and this is a way to get experience and this is a way to learn what you do like in a work environment and what you don't like in an work environment like all of this is really valuable information that you're going to use in the future and to be okay with the fact that this isn't a perfect fit right now but you're getting this information that's going to help you in your next step get you closer and closer to what you really want to be doing I love that point because I think that's something that I rarely speak about on the show it is the drive not just for money but for purpose and for meaning and we are like such a lucky generation that that is something that we could we understand is like on the cards for us right like the choice of meaningful work is something that we do have available to us but sometimes you don't know what your mission is yet and there is an experience waiting for you in that dead end job or waiting for you in that internship or in that graduate role that is like the point where you turn over the page and if you go out looking for meaning straight away you're going to actually end up missing the thing that would have provided you with that gateway so it's kind of like just take the experiences for what they are in a way like take the experiences for what they might be leading you to like not everything is the final destination that's like exactly I think that's for everything I want to wrap up by asking you for one final piece of advice or some words of wisdom that you would get you would give to somebody listening right now who has graduated maybe in the last six months last year he was like I have no idea what I am doing what would you what would you say to them I would encourage them to practice self-compassion so self-compassion was developed byDr.
Kristen Neff and and it's a really wonderful concept because she talks a lot about how we've been taught to chase self-esteem but self-esteem often really involves how we stack up against other people and it involves external accomplishments and checking the boxes and so self-esteem is going to rise and fall depending on like what's going on in our world and how we're stacking up against other people a self-compassion on the other hand is more about the relationship that we have with ourselves and it's about treating ourselves like a friend like we talked about earlier and it's about really offering ourselves some compassion and some grace and when you start to practice self-compassion some really wonderful things can happen it's much easier to maintain motivation because you're not getting completely defeated when you get a curveball so I really want people to start paying attention to how they're treating themselves and how they're talking to themselves and to treat themselves with self-compassion I love that what's one way that somebody could show themselves some self-compassion after the same tous.
