All right, live on netflix.
I can't speak live on netflix.
Bill simmons.
Here with joe house we are going to do our annual nba trade value list podcast.
That we have been doing the first one house, december 2007, the first year at our podcast.
I'm the worldwide leader and In that trade value list I think we ranked Carlos Boozer above Dirk Nowitzki.
And now, 19 years later, Carlos Boozer's son, now about to be a top three pick in the NBA draft.
It all comes around.
And now we're on Netflix, a place that was mailing out DVDs to customers in 2007.
And now we're doing a live podcast for Netflix and Spotify.
Spotify existed in 2007.
But look at this.
We're just moving with the times.
This is great.
I will explain the trade value concept to everybody in a second, but we got to talk about James Harden first.
Yeah.
James Harden.
News of the day.
We always get everybody's like, it's going to be a slow trade.
And then all of a sudden, Saturday or Sunday, whatever day that was during the weekend.
It was like James Harden not playing tonight.
Personal reasons, parentheses.
It was like, uh-oh.
Personal reasons.
What does this mean?
Are we about to do the dance with James Harden again?
Then it leaks out.
Chris Mannix reports.
Yesterday there is a James Harden Darius Garland trade.
That's far down the road and might happen, might not.
Now, as we're recording this Tuesday, 1030 PT AM, feels like this trade is happening.
What was your reaction when you heard that this trade was even a one-for-one possibility?
As we're working on the trade value list,
Made sense.
To be honest, I got to see Cleveland this year up close and personal.
Went to Wizards game and Darius Garland played, which was great.
You know, got to see him.
I will tell you you're the expert at the body language and all of the you know.
You have your PhD in analyzing team chemistry.
Yes.
But It was, I was paying attention because we had, I had really good seats.
Uh, thank you to our good friends.
I'm not going to give a shout out actually.
Just thank you to all of our good friends out there.
Um and the uh like.
It was just not like a big bro hug kind of vibe coming out of out of Cleveland in general when I saw them.
And I think this was in December.
Um, but you know, the guys were kind of all navigating their own paths is what I would say.
And I, it's a car key situation, right?
They, they somewhat easily coexisted last year, Garland and Mitchell, the team did really well.
But now, you know, Garland's in year seven.
Mitchell's got a new extension coming up.
Garland has been repeatedly getting hurt.
I want to talk about that in a second.
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So Garland, there's a durability thing with him that I think is factoring in.
One thing about James Harden, The moods will go up and down.
Maybe the weight will even go up and down a tiny bit.
But he does play.
He's out there.
He is durable, whereas Garland is not.
And you can get out of his contract after the year.
The shit detector in me, though, he had a trade kicker, 15% trade kicker.
Cleveland is over the second apron.
So this deal works as a one-for-one.
But if you put in the 15, trade kicker Now.
Granted, we've only had these apron rules for a year and a half and they're trying to figure out, trying to read Chinese or something.
But I'm pretty sure the kicker would then make it impossible for Cleveland to do the deal.
Which leads me to wonder did they have to ask Harden to waive the trade kicker?
And he's like, well, why would I do that?
Are you going to give me an extension?
Both teams or one team both say well, we can't give you an extension, because the one-year deal you signed, you can't get an extension until the summer.
Then we move into wink wink category.
Oh boy.
Well, what if we wink winked an extension for the summer?
Who knows?
The other thing we don't know is who pushed for this trade.
Did the Clippers do this and Harden found out?
I theorized that today.
He finds out all of a sudden he's in a trade.
He's mad.
He doesn't play.
Or because the Clippers wouldn't give him an extension.
Was he out scouting possible teams, ended up with Cleveland and now they're just trying to figure it out.
Which one would you bet on out of those two scenarios?
I think the latter although the whole wink-wink thing.
He doesn't have a great track record of that.
No, he's had a poor wink-wink history.
Daryl Morey is a liar.
Yeah, that's right.
He called Daryl Morey a liar.
According to James Harden.
Not me, James Harden.
Well, I'm proceeding like this trade is going to happen.
And it's an interesting timing because the Clippers, at least by advanced metrics, were the best team in the league for the last 20 games.
I don't think they actually were the best team in the league, but they were making a playoff run.
They were going to be at least in the play-in and probably in the playoffs.
Gahal, our producer, is a big Clipper fan.
And I'm going to assume this trade happens.
And I just want to say this now.
I don't want to jinx it.
I'm so happy as a Clippers season ticket holder who has deliberately not been going to that many games, mostly because all due respect, I'm sure he's a nice guy.
I cannot stand watching James Harden.
I can't stand it.
I don't like it.
I don't like driving 40 minutes to the Intuit Dome and then having to watch James Harden.
Just have the ball all the time and fish for fouls.
I just don't have a good time.
It's not what I like.
So I'm kind of surprised to hear that.
What do you mean?
You've known me for almost 40 years.
How are you surprised?
What part of James Harden's game would I be like, oh, I love that's my kind of basketball?
Well, first of all, he does, you know, get his assists, and especially, you know, the guys who will go to the rim.
He and Zubach had a really nice pick and roll thing going.
And Zoo really elevated last season.
I mean, the run that they went on and how they got to 50 games was in no small part because of that chemistry between Harden and Zoo.
So you're driving 45 minutes back and forth to watch James Harden.
That's what you're telling me?
You're going to do that 15 times a year?
Let me ask you this question.
How many times have you seen Luka play live?
Luka's more fun to me because even though it's the same kind of monoculture basketball thing but Luka brings in the added benefit of you get to try to figure out what mood he's in.
He gets mad at people.
He gets like really pissed at opponents and referees.
It's like, it's almost like watching like my six year old son as, as an NBA superstar.
You don't know when he's going to throw a tantrum.
He'll take over a game for like eight minutes and it's awesome.
Like I'm way more fascinated in him.
And I think he makes sense in the context of the Lakers in LA.
Like he's, A celebrity, like your eyes gravitate to him.
Okay.
I just maybe have been watching James Harden for too long.
What about in the context of a winning basketball team?
He did drag a team to the finals and it really was the perfect kind of team.
Luka did.
Luka did.
That's what I mean.
I'm way more pro Luka than James Harden.
I have a list for you.
It's my least favorite good players to watch in the 21st century.
Least favorite good players.
Okay, go ahead.
James Harden is my least favorite player to watch in person since Dwight Howard.
I could never, ever, ever enjoyed watching Dwight Howard ever.
I can't remember.
I feel, I think I left feeling neutral about him.
Remember we sat courtside for the Super Bowl in Indianapolis?
Yes.
That the Patriots fucking blew.
We sat underneath the basket and it was right when Dwight Howard was becoming unhappy with his Orlando situation or maybe he was already unhappy and we got to watch him just ram into bodies and bang around.
He was very physical.
Yeah, he was very physical.
Strong fella.
I don't know if I would have wanted to watch that 15 times.
Steve Francis.
Oh, yeah.
Putting him on here for my least favorite good players to watch 21st century.
The classic score first point guard.
Yeah.
Who has no interest in setting up anyone else in the team, but somehow gets all his stats.
I have him.
I feel like this is going to be a theme.
No, your guy, Bradley Beal.
Oh.
I'm putting him on there.
Yeah.
Bradley Beal last few years.
What do you want me to say?
I have nothing to say.
OK, what's crazy?
I will say this.
You know, there was a very nice celebration of John Wall last week.
John Wall's part of the prime team and they did a bobblehead for him.
And I honestly think they may get around to retiring John Wall's jersey.
But the curious thing is you can't retire both John Wall and Brad Beal.
I mean, all that team did was get to the semis in 2017.
You're telling me you're going to retire John Wall's jersey?
I think there's a chance.
I think it's possible.
They should retire his amnesty clause cap figure, whatever the hell they had to do.
Who should be the fifth player in this team?
Harden, Dwight Howard, Steve Francis, Bradley Beal.
I need a power forward.
Oh well, I'm glad that you didn't say the guy who's going to absolutely be transformative for my Washington team next year.
And that's Trey Young, who I was positive.
I don't mind watching Trey Young.
It's going to come out of your mouth.
Good.
Thank you.
I need a power forward.
Is there a power forward from over the years?
Maybe Rasheed Wallace when he didn't care?
Well, no, that's Derek Coleman, right?
That's 90s, though.
I need this century.
Okay, this century.
Somebody who had Josh Smith?
Oh, that's a great one.
Josh Smith.
That's my fifth.
I'm going to write him down.
James Harden, Dwight Howard, Steve Francis, Bradley Beal, and Josh Smith.
That is an automatic calling the season ticket, represent representative and saying I've decided not to renew my tickets.
Can I give you another James Harden last five weeks, 24 points a game, eight assists a game.
Solid.
Good.
38% field goal, 29% three pointers.
Tough stuff.
Older player starts out hot season goes along.
Hmm.
Now if he's on the calves, you have to do less.
I get that Mitch has the ball a lot.
I actually like the fit for him in the calves.
Me too.
So so explain to me, Garland and the Clippers how that works because I get hardened in the calves and how that raises their ceiling.
Um, and especially this run that they could go on if they could just, and maybe this little chemistry bit will will be the tipping point for them.
Help me understand Garland and the Clippers.
10 years younger.
I'll just put it this way.
If I told you in July, when I don't remember, can't remember if the Clippers had signed James Harden yet
If I told you in July, there's really no market for James Harden other than one or two teams.
He's going to sign a one-year deal.
And in six months, he's going to be traded straight up for Darius Garland.
Your answer would have been no way.
There's no way that's happening.
Cleveland would never do that.
Stop it. but I think Garland stock has fallen a little bit.
I think if you're the Clippers, it's a no brainer.
You have a chance to get a younger asset.
His deal is not bad.
It's got three years left.
He's represented by the ringers.
Rich Paul.
Hey, now I'm all in.
Listen to this.
No, but I, I, I've, I've always loved Garland.
I've always wanted to see him with car keys on his own, uh, team.
And I actually liked the fit with him in, in Kauai and, and zoo.
And, uh, I don't know.
I don't think it's going to hurt the team this season that much if he's playing.
The problem is you're rolling the dice on his feet.
And I think, what did we say?
He wears new balances?
Is that right?
I don't know.
I'll look at the picture and see what shoes he's in.
When players continue to have problems with feet and ankles.
To me, that's less about the player and more about the equipment.
Most famously.
Grant Hill wearing the Fila's is the worst example of this, but Obviously he's got weird feet.
I was talking before we came on.
I have fat feet.
It took me forever to realize I should wear the wide Nikes when I walk for 15,000 steps a day.
Nikes are perfect for my feet.
Yeah, Nikes are narrow.
My feet are fat.
And the Nikes would grind the sides of my feet and I would get blisters all over the place.
I'm like, oh, I have dumb feet.
Why do I get so many blisters?
It's like, because I'm wearing the wrong shoes, dumbass.
Yeah, it's your feet fault.
Yeah.
It's not you.
It's very fixable.
Let me throw one other thing with Cleveland, because this will lead into the trade value thing that we're about to do.
They are my I still.
I know there's a bunch of people who are like Giannis isn't getting traded until this summer.
That seems to be the consensus around the league.
I'm one of them.
I disagree because I think for a few teams this is their chance to grab a Giannis trade before it gets to the summer and the Knicks Cleveland has a better way to do it.
Some other teams that it would just be easier to make trades in the summer and go after them.
Teams will be less happy with you.
You just, you, you, you're bringing more variables into it, but that's good for Milwaukee.
It's good for Milwaukee, but it's also good for teams.
You know, like a Cleveland, they're 138 over the second apron.
When you're over the second apron, you can't package players to make trades.
You can only trade one player out.
Whatever you're getting back has to be less than that player or the trade's off.
They're now because of stupid Vivek, and the Kings once again like doing something dumb to help out another team.
The Kings trade for DeAndre Hunter and they send back Keon, Ellis and Schroeder.
It saves the Cavs Oh, wow.
We just got breaking news.
This is better than the trade deadline show.
This is the best.
I'm having a great time.
We better start doing this show on Tuesdays.
Wow.
30.
This is the new thing.
So Jaron Jackson has been traded to the Jaron Jackson has been traded to the Utah jazz trade.
Marketing has to be involved, right?
We might have to get Zach Lowe to come on this.
Great.
Let's do it.
Love Zach Lowe.
You should just text Zach.
If he's available, he should just pop on.
Yeah.
Holy mackerel.
So what was the trade?
Marketing has to be involved, right?
Does he?
I mean, they could keep marketing.
They have expirings and just trade a bunch of their picks.
What is Memphis doing?
Memphis, this is the full rebuild.
So Morant, they'll get a bag of Cheetos from Morant now.
So Jaron Jackson's $35 million this year.
Extension kicking in next year, five years for $205 million.
Five years is also the number of rebounds per game he averages.
You really obsess over the number of rebounds that Triple J gets.
Yeah, because you didn't rebound.
You weren't a great rebounder.
I'm a perimeter player.
That's what Jared Jackson said.
He's right.
Me and Triple J.
Back to Cleveland.
We'll find out what this trade was, but back to Cleveland for a second.
So they got to get 13.8 million under the second apron.
There's a bunch of teams with exceptions.
They have Lonzo 10 million expiring, Max Truce at 15, Keon Ellis at 2.3.
They can get rid of some.
So they can actually get under the apron before Thursday, which would allow them to then do a Mobley and other stuff for Giannis and Kuzma, whatever it takes.
Would you trade Mobley for Giannis?
Maybe.
Here's my reservation, and here is why I think we're waiting until the summer.
Tell me the truth about Giannis' calf.
Tell me the truth.
The truth?
Tell me the truth.
It seems to get tweaked a lot.
A lot.
This is the problem.
Is he going to play in the playoffs this upcoming season?
Well, he's not going to be in the playoffs.
Oh, here we go.
Here's the trade.
Jaron Jackson, John Conchar, Jock Landell, and Vince Williams Jr.
I kind of like him.
For Walter Clayton Jr, Kyle Anderson, Taylor Hendricks, George Niang and three future first round picks which I'm guessing are unprotected.
Wait, did you say Kessler?
No, I said.
You did not.
I did not.
Well, he's out for the year.
So?
That's an interesting swing for Utah.
I don't know if I love Jaron Jackson at $50 million a year, but that's just me.
That means they have a very strong conviction about Jaron Jackson and Laurie Markkinen playing together.
Do you like that combo?
That's pretty interesting.
Who's rebounding on that team?
Kessler, when he comes back next year.
That's what I just asked.
The thing with Jaron Jackson is he's a really good rim-protecting center, but he needs to play next to a center.
But I thought he was the center.
Something about Keontae George pushed them in this direction.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
They pushed Keontae George in a trade value direction, too.
Well placed.
So Memphis, they trade Jaron Jackson, they get picks back.
Last summer, they trade Desmond Bain.
Would they get four firsts for him?
A whole bunch of picks, yes.
And now they're going to try to stick John Moran on Vivek, which they'll probably succeed in doing.
And that's just a full reboot for a team that I think the furthest they got was round two.
And ironically, the guy they couldn't wait to get rid of first turned out to be the culture guy on their team, Dylan Brooks.
Everybody was like, this guy's so immature.
What's wrong with this guy?
In fairness to the team, he was, I'll just use the word, somewhat erratic.
Not completely erratic.
No, he was erratic.
He was pretty erratic.
Nobody was like, wow, I can't believe they decided to move on from Dylan Brooks.
But I think he's mature.
He kind of dared them to.
And he's turned it into being a really good culture setter for Phoenix.
If you look at Phoenix's team, we're doing trade value.
I think we only have one.
We have two sons, Booker and Brooks.
They didn't know the entire list.
He didn't know.
Somebody didn't know what kind of leader he could be.
Maybe this was the, the, the problem all along.
Nobody ever gave him the car keys.
Let Dylan cook.
That's what, see, that's what was making him crazy.
Nobody would give him the car keys.
It's like me and ESPN.
Um, So the difference with this Jackson trade and when you are in a similar situation in DC with Bradley Beal.
Yes.
Is they move fast to trade even before the extension kicked in to get the first round picks back.
How much are we allowed to curse on this show?
Well, the Wiz gave Bradley Beal the extension and people are like that's where Jaron Jackson, the extension was much more defensible.
The extension wasn't the problem.
I can curse, right?
It was the fucking no trade clause.
It was the motherfucking no trade clause.
That was the problem.
Giving him the car keys over whatever preferred destination he wanted and having to kowtow to a player that made one third team all nba team.
Once in his entire career it gave him the benefit of that super extension.
It only took one time under the previous collective bargaining agreement, so they had to pay him.
Good god, i'm over it.
I'm over it.
I'm sorry.
Let me take it down a notch.
Uh, we're gonna talk about this super bowl for one second and then we're gonna do trade value And the Super Bowl moment is brought to you by Michelob Ultra.
It is now Tuesday.
I've spent The last 48 hours studying all Drake May's shoulder footage, including him saying in the podium last night that he feels really good and it's turned the corner.
He was carrying his bag coming off the plane.
Just his demeanor, his shoulders didn't seem lopsided.
I'm feeling good, House.
I'm feeling great.
Do you think it was the compression in the plane, you know?
The air in there is different?
Maybe that's what helped.
He said he got off the plane and immediately felt better.
Maybe his wonderful wife, the Queen of the North, was just giving him some shoulder massages and working out the kinks in the back.
I don't think she's allowed.
That's what we call her now, the Queen of the North.
Is she allowed on the plane?
I think they have their own.
They have a family plane.
Okay.
The line has not moved.
Were you surprised the line has not moved at all?
No, that tells us.
At four and a half.
That tells us the story.
If he was hurt, the line would have moved.
It would have moved Sunday.
It hasn't moved.
So Thursday, I'm doing a trade deadline special live with Zach Lowe on Netflix.
We are going to record a Super Bowl segment with our picks that's going to run at the end of that.
You and I?
Yeah, we're going to do that either Wednesday.
We'll record it tomorrow.
I'd rather get it closer to the game as possible.
Because if there's footage of Drake May just throwing ducks and wobblers, maybe that'll affect the line.
Who knows?
Anyway, that is the Super Bowl brought to you by Michelob Ultra.
Let's do it.
And once we get more info on that Jaron Jackson trade, we'll pop in.
I mean, this is the trade deadline show.
Yeah, yeah.
It turned into like a borderline trade value.
So for the people who don't know, I've been doing this trade value gimmick since I had my old website before I got to ESPN.
And the concept is ranking the players from.
However, the highest number is to one based on who is the most untradeable player in the league.
And we've been doing that.
I started writing this as a column when I got my podcast in 07.
We started doing the annual podcast every year to try.
You helped me figure out the list.
You're my list conciliary, my trade value conciliary.
Have you put that on a resume?
Put it on your LinkedIn.
Trade value conciliary 2007 to 2026.
Here are the rules.
Trade value.
It's really important.
We follow these rules.
Rule number one, salaries matter. which matters more than ever in this goofy apron era we're in.
The apron is terrifying to everybody.
Rule number two, age matters.
So this is like a James Harden, Darius Garland thing.
Darius Garland's 26, James Harden's 36.
Which guy would you rather want to have?
Contract link matters.
This mattered more in the 2000s when we had guys getting seven-year deals.
Remember that era?
You had a couple of bad ones.
I think you're still paying Gobert Arenas.
Contract link matters.
Rule number four, happiness matters.
So does durability.
Conflicting for James Harden fans here.
Durable guy, many times unhappy.
We've seen this multiple times in the know.
Rule number five, bizarre real life trade should affect the list.
So if you think somebody is this trade asset and they were given away for 30 cents on the dollar AKA Trey Young, that was like 20 cents a dollar.
Whoa.
But I'm saying Trae Young's a good example.
That trade told us what his trade value was.
There's no example that will ever surpass Luka.
I mean, we'll have to forever cope with that.
So you think that affects the list?
Or is that like an outlier?
It affects the concept.
It is the all-time outlier.
It is the... Yeah, see, I think that's an outlier.
I don't think...
I think that was a unique once in a lifetime event.
It brings the whole concept to its knees, because I got one first round draft pick and it was infinitely, permanently hurt.
But a lot of Max Christie moving right now.
And then rule number six, concentrate on degrees.
And we're going to talk about this over and over again.
Two guys that are close together.
And basically and this is one of the things House does as my trade value conciliary, I call you and I say you're Utah and I'm the Pelicans.
And I call you and I say, what about Trey Murphy for Lori Markkinen?
Straight up.
Which side deliberates longer, has a longer meeting?
If somebody's like no way we're doing that and it hangs up, that means that side probably has more trade value.
So you just have to think about it in that context.
Degrees of.
Obviously you know Wemby's not getting traded for Jokic.
But if San Antonio and Denver had that phone call, how does it unfold?
Who's more likely to say that's ridiculous, we're not doing that, or Denver going.
We can't do that.
Jokic is our guy.
But Wemby's available?
And they're gonna actually trade him?
Probably a longer meeting on the Denver side, right?
Yeah.
Joker's older.
So anyway, that's the thing.
Okay.
We have a top 80 this year, House.
It's the biggest list we've ever had, I think.
You remember the days in the late 2000s when we had 40 guys?
We could barely get to 40.
We had to pad it with Chris Kamen.
Guys that missed the cut, just quickly.
Zachary Resache, Josh Hart, Tyler Hero, Naz Reed, Michael Porter Jr., Cam Johnson.
Any of those names surprise you so far?
Kind of Michael Porter Jr., because...
He seems fit to be traded and he seems to be in a position where he could actually fetch decent assets.
$40 million this year, $37 next year, and has not played defense, I don't think, since 11th grade.
Right team, right situation.
Okay.
All right, so that's your first.
He's going to stay there.
Cam Johnson.
DeMontis Sabonis really surprised me.
He didn't even make the toughest omissions list, but just had this huge extension kicked in.
The advanced metrics are terrible for him and his team seems to lose when he plays and he's older.
I don't see a case for him.
I would say freeze the bonus.
I'd love to see him play on a decent team where we could I mean, remember the double-double machine he was as recently as like last year.
I mean, he can definitely play and he can definitely be a winning basketball player in the right circumstance.
This unfortunately is not it.
Jared Allen, who would have made the list last year, and probably did, but has this big 30 million a year extension kicking in next year.
And I think Cleveland would probably be delighted to get off of that and get a cheaper big man.
Igor Demin.
I screwed that up.
No, I know it's Igor.
I can't remember.
Demin.
I always call him Igor.
You can call him Demin.
I like him a little more than I did when I saw him in person.
But there's maybe something there.
We'll see.
Herb Jones.
Aaron Neesmith.
Khalil Ware, who doesn't really play anymore and I also think could have been on this list a month ago.
So what is weird is, you know, he and Kaminga, two guys who came in with all of the like oh wow, there could be something here.
These guys could grow into players.
Ware drafted much further back than Kaminga?
Right.
No, Ware was in the middle of the lottery, basically.
Right.
Yeah.
So what's your point?
Um, just the, the weird falling out of favor with coaches that we trust.
We, we tend to trust, trust, uh, um, Spolstra and we tend to trust, um.
Right.
Maybe it's a tough love approach.
Didn't really work with Kaminga.
No.
I'm going to say it did not work with Kaminga.
I'm going to say it decidedly did not work.
Isaiah hartenstein's on here.
He's paid a lot, he's like 29 million and i think it's a team option next year so they can grab it worth every penny.
I like them, but i'm just saying like that's.
They won the title because of this.
But the center position i think teams are usually looking for that 15 to 20 million range, not 30 miles.
Bridges, christian braun, shade and sharp my guy, scoot henderson, i'll still buy all your sock.
I know, i know the stock for scoot is is lower, but It is what it is.
Kobe White.
He's on his last year of his deal and probably getting paid next year.
So that's why he's not in there.
Okay.
Toughest omissions.
So we have 12 guys for this list.
The first one is a wizard.
Let me tell you.
Keyshawn George.
Keyshawn George.
Yes.
Keyshawn George.
I called him Keyshawn George.
Keyshawn George.
I don't think I've watched a Wizards game with the announcers.
I just see them on the bottom left TV and I have no idea how to pronounce any of their names.
Respectfully, it's hit or miss with the local broadcast.
But I will say this.
This dude can flat out play.
He can absolutely, he could be a scorer.
He can definitely hit threes.
He's tough.
He's super young and he's not yet reached the full potential of how strong he can be.
And when that comes in, he's going to be a force.
He absolutely.
When they want to win games, he's on the floor in the fourth quarter and he makes good decisions.
Nikhil Alexander-Walker. who has been a great signing for Atlanta and is averaging almost 20 a game.
Devin Vassell on San Antonio, a little pricey.
He's like around 27.
Alex Caruso, great glue guy.
A little older, 32.
He's got a new deal.
It's like 20 million a year for a few more years.
But I found it hard to believe he couldn't crack the list.
Jalen Suggs, who...
I really like, and so do you, but fatter contract now and doesn't seem to be able to play more than 10 straight games.
We don't like that.
First rando, Colin Murray-Boyles.
You aware of his work in Toronto?
Yeah, he's an elemental part of their success.
He's part of the overall depth that that team has that makes this version of them successful.
He can play.
They wouldn't trade him.
Really, really elite, elite, elite defensive shit going on with him.
Yeah.
And just the kind of guy you need and he's on a rookie contract.
I put Luke Cornett on the list.
No, that's just you.
You did that.
He's 10 million a year.
Would you rather pay Luke Cornett 10 million a year or Jared Allen 30?
You had the chance.
I mean, I guess you couldn't figure it out in Boston how to keep him.
Well, they didn't want to spend the money.
Jabari Smith, I'm just going to go down on the ship with.
I just like him.
I think he's kind of criminally misused on this team because they have so many assets and they just kind of tell him to stand in the corner.
I think there's so much more there.
If I was a GM, I'd be trying to trade for him constantly.
If they don't do anything by the end of the day Thursday, I am jumping into their regular wins market.
That's Yeah.
Season total.
It's 53 and a half right now.
And I am hammering the under.
I am going to buy so much under on the Rockets at 53 and a half if they don't do anything on the trade deadline.
I watched them play Indiana last night.
There wasn't a lot of basketball on last night.
Just feels like everything's a grind with them now that they don't have that.
They had that Stephen Adams offensive rebounding wrinkle that made them invincible sometimes, and now they don't have it and they feel gettable every game.
Their fourth quarters are not good.
So the, their regular season wins now.
It's still, Oh, it's 53 and a half now.
That's what I mean.
Yeah.
If it stays there at the trade deadline, I am buying a big chunk of under.
Can I interest you at all in Utah?
24 and a half or an over under.
I think they're going to go over right now.
They are.
Well, it's not, can you still, they're 15 and 35.
Now there's 32 games left.
So they'd have to go nine and 10 and 10 and 22 to hit it.
How many games is triple J going to play?
I don't know.
Do they, did they ice them?
They, they are, they, they will ice somebody in a heartbeat.
I mean, that's a fun team for him to go to, by the way.
When Kessler comes back with Markkinen, if they get anything from Ace Bailey, they have a point guard, they have cap space and draft picks to get more stuff.
I don't mind that.
I'm talking myself into that trade.
Why do you have to talk yourself into it?
Because I want to see if the picks are unprotected.
If they're unprotected, that would make me a little more nervous.
Okay.
Moussa Diabate on the Hornets.
I don't know if you're familiar with his work lately.
But there's like some of the most insane plus minus stats of five band lineups.
And I test too.
Yes.
That's just exactly kind of what they needed.
Hugo Gonzalez, who has the best plus minus, I think of any rookie in the last five years.
And is only like six months older than my son and comes in and swings games and is an absolute man and a maniac.
And I love him.
And if they ended up somehow out of nowhere doing Giannis trade and he was in it, I'd be bummed out.
And then I'd be like, Giannis is on the team.
I'll get over it.
Tamani Kamara and Trey Johnson is our last toughest omission.
I put them on there for you.
Thank you.
Do you think Trey Johnson had a case to be in the top 80?
No, not yet.
He might get there.
He can shoot.
He works super hard.
Perfect character guy.
Let's see this rising stars thing.
I want to see how he is playing with his peers.
That's the first time that sentence has ever been said.
Okay.
I'm still learning my team.
Top 80.
We separate them into tiers.
Going from 80 to one.
And group O is...
It's gone by letters.
We, I don't remember us getting an O before.
I was, I was a lot.
Jesus.
It's a lot of guys.
Group O is called grab your stock now.
And it's all cheap guys.
It's number 80, Anthony black, 79, ace Bailey, number 78, Peyton Watson.
Look at you jumping in out of nowhere.
And that is an RFA.
So they're actually going to have to pay in the summer.
Tari's and who I'm never going to give up on.
And it's actually been playing modest, but zealous and, uh, And Donovan Klingin at 75.
So Black, Bailey, Watson, Eason, Bezos, and Klingin.
Who's your favorite out of all those guys?
It's Eason.
And I tried to come up with a case to push him further up that he would fetch more in value than where he is right now.
I couldn't get there.
The league's too deep.
And you know again, he is one of the guys on Houston when there's, you know, seven minutes left and their opponent is closing the gap, closing the gap, closing the gap.
Yeah.
He on the offensive end, he's not doing anything to help stave that off.
Yeah, I think that's a good point.
I will say all six of these guys.
I really like for different reasons.
Oh yeah.
I don't know what Bailey is, but he's clearly, there's something there.
I have no idea what's there, but something's there.
Black's been playing really well recently, like the last five weeks.
Watson's been a revelation since Joker went out.
And as I'm still in, I'm zealous.
I like him.
I like his game.
Um, he's so young.
Why do you say it that way?
Still in, why would you be out?
Sometimes it seems like the bulls aren't in on him.
There's games where, and he was, he'll just like disappear from the game.
You just can't, I don't think we can take any, um, draw any inferences from anything.
The bulls do.
That's very fair.
And then Klingon is just a bad-ass.
He really is.
He killed the Celtics last month.
Really kind of destroyed them and took the game over.
So Portland and Washington played and there is definitely last week there is some kind of rivalry thing between him and Saar.
And they were talking.
And Keyshawn George was really the animating force.
They were talking so much shit to Klingon the whole game.
And it was physical.
I couldn't have enjoyed it more.
And Denny, you know, Denny Abdiah is motivated.
Former Wiz.
Former Wiz, yeah.
It was a really fun game.
Washington and Portland, super underrated.
Klingon's really competitive and kind of...
Kind of talks to shit a little bit.
Sure does.
And tries to intimidate.
I really like him.
I think he's good.
I almost wanted to put him like 15 spots higher next to Alex Saar in that group, but I couldn't quite get there because I'm not sure about the health of them.
Okay, next group.
So those are all rookie contract guys which are the easiest, you know, best commodities, especially in the apron era.
Next group is Group N, valuable assets on okay contracts.
These aren't bad contracts.
They're not great.
Number 74, Dyson Daniels.
He just signed an extension for 4400.
I liked him more last year.
And I've watched a lot of Hawks.
I have some overs with them.
And there's just...
They've never been able to put their shit together.
And it doesn't feel like he's better than he was last year, which I would have assumed he would be better than he was last year.
But he's not.
We've been on the wrong side of the Hawks every year.
What feels like they're like the Steelers for us in NFL for basketball.
Anyway, I can't give up on him because he's too good of a.
His hands on defense are just unlike anything.
James Hart at number seventy three.
39 million this year, $42 million player option.
And I got to be honest, he wasn't on this list until two days ago when the Garland stuff started, because that, I think, made both of us realize oh yeah, I guess he still has the value because of the stats.
So he's there.
Brandon Ingram, number 72.
He's on a three for 120 deal.
Still can't believe my guy Rich Paul pulled that one off.
He helped stabilize Toronto.
Unbelievable contract, though.
Toronto's going to get, you know, like a five-seat, six-seat in the East.
Yeah, we'll see.
They're competitive.
Mikael Bridges, number 71.
He is $24 million this year, and then it kicks into a $4,150,000, $50 million extension.
I mean, he's kind of taking the hits on this team.
Doesn't have the ball a ton.
Their defense has been really good for the last two weeks.
And all the Knicks fans I know are like, shit's happening.
Mike Brown finally figured it out.
They're not playing Clarkson.
And he's a piece of that.
But this feels the right range for him, right?
Yeah, I mean he's tough to know what exactly to do with because there is because, like on the Wizards, he'd probably have the ball a lot more and be more fun to watch, and he also really could be he's so tough he could be, you know, that enforcer kind of role for a team that wants to play physical, like if he was on Houston.
I think he could be an absolute force for them.
Norm Powell is number 70, interesting one, because he's 20 million this year and then he's a free agent And I don't know whether that helps or hurts trade value.
I feel like it probably hurts.
How old is Norm Powell now?
This is the... I'm going to say he's like 33 or 34.
Okay.
33.
33?
Why do you ask?
Well, because he, by the numbers, is having a better shooting season for the Heat than he did last year for the Clippers.
And the Clippers really missed him at the beginning of the season.
I think that was the one ingredient, more than any other ingredient, that led to them only winning four games.
John Collins has been OK now.
Now, like in the first 25 games, the Clippers were a disaster.
And I think a big part of that is because they missed Norm Powell.
And Norm Powell has been good.
He scored well.
You're right.
He's 33 next year.
Josh Giddey's number 69.
He's four for 100.
Right contract for him.
Right team.
I'm not sure if you're trying to win a title.
I'm not sure what number in the pecking order is, but he's probably fourth.
I would say you probably have to have three guys better than him on the team. three guys.
Yeah.
Desmond Bay, number 68.
He's five year, $197 million deal.
So I'm dinging him for that.
That's pretty pricey.
Rudy Gobert, number 67, redid his deal.
It's now three for 109.
There's just not a lot of him.
And I'd rather have him than Jared Allen if we're paying roughly around the same money.
Jaden McDaniels, four for 108.
He's number 66.
Darius Garland, number 65, three for 126.
Interesting that he's 65.
Harden is 73, and yet they're being traded straight up.
Obviously, I can't tell teams what to do, but that's how I have them ranked.
And then Lou Dort is number 64.
He's 18 this year, 18 next year.
And House, just signed with Clutch.
Oh.
So OKC is the team option for him next year at 18.
But now he's with Clutch.
I think Lou Dort is a...
I'm not saying they're going to trade him in the next two days, but you have to think about it if you're Presti.
You're not going to pay him.
You're paying three max guys.
Basically, you're not going to pay Lou Dort 30 million a year.
You have case on Wallace who can probably take some of his minutes.
So I'm just if OKC did something, I think he's involved.
Right.
Makes perfect sense.
And this is exactly.
It was either this trade deadline or this coming summer when folks anticipated that he would.
He would have to go.
I mean, that's the sacrifice the team's going to have to make.
And it's fair.
He helped them win a ring.
That was awesome.
Yeah, they won a ring.
He did his job.
He did his job.
Everything else is gravy.
So Group N Daniels Harden Ingram Bridges Powell Giddey Bain Gobert McDaniels, Garland and Lou Dort.
That's from 74 to 64.
We're going to take a break, but I got one more quick group.
Now let's save it.
The group's called Valuable Assets on Horrific Contracts, and we're going to do it right after this break.
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All right.
Before we next is get group.
We have some Jaron Jackson stuff that we found out about the trade.
Thanks to the reporter Shams Sharania and Bobby Marks as well.
Two things I want to point out.
One Shams says the Grizzlies now have a 288 million trade exception that they've created in this deal.
Oh, interesting.
Yeah.
Interesting.
You know who makes $27.5 million?
Who?
Anthony Simons.
Congrats.
If the Celts just wanted to get under the tax and punt on this year, I have a chance.
You have no chance.
Bunch of other players too that could fit into that.
So they become... So if Cleveland wanted to... I don't know.
Will you take Lonzo Ball and Max Struess from us?
And we'll do two swaps with you and whatever.
And then they can get under the... And go for Giannis.
So the Grizzlies, who we didn't even know were going to factor into this trade deadline now a huge factor.
Bobby Marks also says Memphis now has 13 firsts over the next seven years.
Yes, they do.
And we still don't know exactly what the firsts are, unfortunately.
But I assume they're unprotected.
They're not in the Giannis market, right?
Utah?
No, Memphis.
No, why would he want to go there?
Well, does he really have a choice?
He doesn't have a no trade.
You follow the NBA.
What do you mean?
Teams just don't send people to teams.
I understand.
They would offer him the extension.
He's not going to Memphis.
Stop it, house.
You know where else he's not going?
Washington.
I never thought about it.
Group M. Valuable assets on horrific contracts.
There's three people here.
Carl Anthony Towns.
Anthony Davis and Joel Embiid from 63, 62 to 61.
Embiid is four for 243.
Davis is a max guy with an extension possibly coming.
And then Towns gets into the 60s after a couple of years.
Kudos to Embiid for working his way back in the trade value list.
I think the odds were like 30 to one five weeks ago, right?
It is bizarre the kind of luck that Philadelphia has fallen into here, because going into this season and I won't express it purely in terms of win totals, but they were just throw up your hands.
What the hell could they possibly be, team?
Yeah, we said they had no ceiling and no floor.
What's the best case scenario?
Well, it turns out B.J.
Edgecombe can immediately come in and form a backcourt with Maxey that looks like one of the best backcourts in the entire NBA, you know, in the mix top five backward and make them competitive in a in an East that's up for grabs so that all they need out of them bead is like 15 to 20 minutes.
And then it turns out that that 15 to 20 minutes is that they're asking for from him coincides with him.
He's in great shape.
Like his, his body is in, you know, in terms of the overall size, he's not carrying around the extra weight.
Now he moves crazy slow and, and you know, the lateral movement.
Don't forget about how he has one leg that works.
But holy shit.
Is he an efficient shooter?
Holy mother of God.
That's what they said last week.
22 minutes.
I have 40 points.
He's one of the best pure shooters in recent league history now.
Every shot just goes in.
When it hits the rim and goes out, you're shocked.
You know, obviously it's a 20 game sample size where he's been healthy.
I hope it stays.
I'd rather have more good basketball players than less.
I just, you know, anytime he falls down, you think the worst, right?
He's just, I guess that's just who he's going to be for the rest of his career.
But I thought at the start of the season that this was inconceivable.
He does have Drew Hanlon talking a lot of shit on Twitter, which he should squash.
Drew Hanlon is shooting coach.
Just he's doing a lot of chirping.
It's like, let's see him be play 50 games in a year.
Before, before the chirping starts, like just I.
This is like talking to her in the no hitter drew Hanlon.
He's like tight yelling at the ringer.
We had him 31st in the ringer.
100 drew Hanlon's like, Oh my God.
It's like the dude hasn't played 40 games since 2023.
Where do you want us to rank them?
So let's see him get to 50 games.
Drew Hanlon should beat himself.
I wondered if we were going to get a combo deal with the Paul George that Joel Embiid and Paul George together shared whatever substance, so that we get them 25 games closer to the playoffs, so that they're both healthy coming into the playoffs.
Oh, that's interesting.
A fake jet and then they just pay him under the table?
He could just take whatever the thing is.
He could have taken it.
He's like, what is that?
Paul George did not make the trade value list.
So Towns 63, Davis 62, Embiid 61.
If the Knicks offered Carl Anthony Towns to the Sixers for Joel Embiid, I think the Sixers would say no right.
I think the Sixers wish they... Yeah, I think they say no, right?
I don't know.
How many years are left on that MB extension?
He's four for 243 right now.
What's left on Towns?
This is year one.
Towns has three left and it's like over 180.
I can't even remember.
It's not great.
Towns is a better bargain.
No, he's really not.
I'll read you the numbers.
Well, it's less years.
No, it's not.
Because it goes...
Oh yeah, it's one last year, but it's 53, 57, 61.
Okay, but what's Joel?
It's one last year.
So you think Towns should be above Joel?
Because I can, this is why you're the conciliary.
They're in the group.
I mean, I think all three make sense.
It's funny because we have tons of trade rumors about Carl Anthony Towns and Anthony Davis.
Those two teams trying to find, this is the reporting that's out there.
And it's been out there for a while.
You know the weird chemistry of towns with this Knicks team, with Mike Brown's offense, you know trying to find his place.
And Davis was going to go to Atlanta by all indications.
And then he had his 14th injury in the last nine years.
Yeah, exactly.
Defense wins championships.
All right.
Now we're hitting a really fun stretch here.
This is group L. We're not even in the top 10 letters yet.
Group out valuable assets on great contracts.
Number 60, your guy, Alex Saar.
Could definitely play.
The Wiz did not miss with that number two pick overall.
So in a redraft, is he above Castle or no?
It depends on the team drafting.
If it's I still have Castle above him, but I like Saar.
I think Saar is a legit guy.
Yeah, if Atlanta's drafting number one I think that they might have taken, it would have accelerated what they had to do with Trey Young if they took Castle right.
I don't know if that's a thing that they could have coexisted.
So you're in, so out of like, all right.
Let's say, since we graduated college, young guys the Wizards have had.
So I'm going to say 22 and under, guys the Wizards have had.
Has anyone been better than him?
Because you got to read this a little bit later.
Was John Wall better than him?
He was pretty effing good.
Was Beal better than him?
Young Beal?
Young Beal was great.
Yeah.
Young Beal was on an arc where, the thing is, both those guys arrived in the NBA.
I think a little bit older than Saar.
I think Saar is still a little bit younger.
I thought he was 20.
So he has three things that are just home runs.
You know, they're going to translate to the next 15 years.
He can already shoot threes for real.
Yes.
Right.
He's a really, really good three point shooter for sure.
He's a rim protector already.
I think he's over two blocks a game, but he's at least as aware, Hey, that's the rim.
The other team's trying to score in it.
Let me try to stop them.
Also, he's a pretty good one-on-one defender.
I can't believe I've watched The Wiz enough to even have an opinion on this.
What do you mean?
They're kind of fun.
If they switch and he has to guard a smaller player, I feel like he can guard the smaller player.
If he's in space one-on-one, he can actually defend.
He moves great.
I like him.
He moves great.
His feet are great for a seven-footer.
He might be too.
He might should be lower than 60.
Maybe.
I don't know.
We'll go through the rest.
Number 59, Andrew Nemhard, who is three for 59 as a contract and is just a proven.
I've seen him in the finals.
You can win a title if he's one of the guys that's out there.
And you and I value that the most.
Same for this next guy, Kaysan Wallace.
He's number 58.
Still on a rookie contract.
They're going to have to pay him soon.
I'm sure the Lou Dort money goes to him.
I want to see when he's playing 32, 33 minutes a game.
What do we got?
Is there a little more offense there?
Can you run offense through him?
Is he just a Dort Caruso?
I'm going to be over here and I'm going to be a pit bull on defense and that's who I am.
But I obviously, I'm a huge fan.
Huge fan.
Okay.
This is a good battle here.
Number 57 and number 56.
Reed Shepard and Keontae George.
I wanted to have Reed Shepard higher and you threw your body in front of it.
Because I think I like him the most because he reminds me of Mark Price so much.
I almost, I can't.
Mark Price, you and I, one of our most beloved 90s players.
We love Mark Price.
He came to Washington and then had a foot injury that he never recovered from.
But I was so excited when he came to Washington.
Yeah, he was so excited to have his jersey.
And then he never played.
We signed him.
He broke his foot, and that was it.
God damn it.
I love Reed Shepard.
He does so many things I like.
I want him to be considered for the 28 Olympic team.
This is ludicrous.
This is outrageous.
It's an outrage.
What's an outrage?
He shouldn't be on the list.
He should have been a tough omission at best.
He could have easily not made the cut.
He's definitely a tough omission.
He has no business.
He's like 20.
No business whatsoever.
It doesn't matter.
It doesn't matter.
He can't play 25 minutes a game on the team that drafted him.
And he couldn't play last year.
So you think I should move him into the 70s?
I think he should be a tough omission.
I don't think he's ahead of any of these guys.
How is he ahead of Anthony Black?
How's he ahead of Tari Eason?
Tari Eason's on the team.
Those guys are about to all get paid, though.
He's on year two of a rookie deal.
Playing real minutes at crunch time and stuff.
All I'm suggesting is the tapping of the brakes.
He does play real minutes at crunch time sometimes.
Not all the time.
I mean, it could be the case that Imei is the most limiting factor on what he's capable of.
Yeah.
I'm going to embrace that.
I might just have, so he's shooting 38% from three already this year.
He's averaging 12 and three.
I think maybe Kyle Mann.
We just text too much about him and that might be messing with my brain on it.
I'm all in on Reed Shepard.
Kyle Mann can text me and I want to have the case made.
He's not in my top 80.
So you wouldn't trade Saar for him ever?
Oh, my God.
What?
What?
All right.
You know what?
I'm going to move Saar above him.
That's fine.
I'm going to give you that.
I'll move Saar above these next two guys.
All these guys should be above.
Andrew Nembhard played a... important minutes in the effing finals.
I'm projecting five years from now for Shepard.
I think he's going to go look at Mark Price's early stats.
That is some kind of rose colored projection.
John Stockton barely played as a rookie.
I'm just listing white guys.
Um, number 56, Keontae George, who I guess is now number 57.
Uh, Keontae George is averaging 24 a game for Utah and has been so good that they just mortgaged some of the future for Jaron Jackson, because I don't think they were expecting his timetable to advance like this.
And it's interesting.
I'm not positive I'd want to play with him.
I've said this on earlier pods.
I'm not sure it would be the most fun experience ever to be like a swing or a big on his team.
But I also, like in a close game, in the last minute, I feel like he's going to get to the basket or get a good shot.
Like he's, he's just really tough to defend.
And I think he's a gamer too.
And I don't know if this is too high or too low.
When they stop messing around and start playing serious and like, actually try and win games in Utah.
He's going to be an effing revelation.
The league is, he's going to put the league on notice.
He might, he could, he's capable of, of, you know, 28 to 30 points a night.
No two ways about it.
So you want to move Reed Shepard all the way up into the, into the group with Tarius and Bezelis and Klingon.
That's your conciliary recommendation.
I push them all the way up.
I'm going to do this.
I'm going to give you this one.
No, I'm not making the toughest omission.
I'll make them number 74.
Fine.
And we'll figure out when I, we're going to run this on the ring tomorrow.
Yeah, you want to put them in the same place as Donovan Klingon, then I can't argue with that.
That's fine.
Okay.
That's fine.
That's fine.
That's fine.
You got a W.
Congrats.
Now, Reed Shepard, anytime he does well, I can text you about it.
I love him.
I think he's amazing.
Obviously not.
You don't love him enough to fight for him in the top 60.
It's outrageous.
Number 55, Osar Thompson.
Yeah.
Kind of the best record in the East.
A very important player on that team.
Interesting.
Not as good as his brother, but still really valuable.
Super valuable.
It's funny that the limitations that we see out of both of those guys were exactly the limitations.
If, like, read their draft profile coming in, you know, incredible athletes, super dynamic, capable.
They're like the Nader sisters.
Like, you just, you can't tell them apart.
They all have the same weaknesses and strengths.
They can guard one through five.
It's really amazing.
Neither one can shoot.
Who do you think will be able to shoot first?
I mean, Amin, he has the green light.
So Amin is, is ahead of Oscar.
I think he, I think Amin has the, uh, he is more of a bag already.
Like you can actually give him the ball.
Like Lego was talking last week about how he wished he posted up more.
Oh, that's, it was such a great point.
I loved hearing that.
I like when they spread the floor for him and he just goes one-on-one.
I don't think his brother can do some of that stuff.
Yep.
Um, also Houston's Thompson, uh, Probably the best defensive non-center in the league right now.
Would you say he's number one?
Who's better than him?
Non... Oh, no, no, for sure.
I have him... I have a ticket for Defensive Player of the Year on him.
Number 54, Isaiah Stewart.
Three for 45...
Um, I test great.
The advanced metrics are unbelievable with him.
He's the best rim protection guy in the league.
Like he's better than Wemba Yama and people like that.
He's by far the best rim protection guy.
Um, and Peyton Pritchard at number 53, who I think has the single best contract in the league.
That's a non-rookie contract other than Denny.
Peyton Pritchard is basically making $7 million a year.
His contract is three years for $23.3 million.
It's just nuts.
I want America to know I seriously considered trying to mount a vigorous case for not having Pritchard here.
Yeah.
Because, you know, America.
Be careful.
You're going to assault the game on Friday night.
The Boston fans are watching.
They expect you to have him here.
America expects you to have him, you know, damn near the top 50 in the entire league.
The problem is this Celtics team is surpassing all expectations and he is so important to them.
And the money is insane.
Three years for 23 million is crazy.
My, uh, I didn't do this on the pod, but I'm going to do it in my final list of the ringer.
I have a 13th guy for toughest admissions, but I didn't want to put him in on the podcast because you were going to laugh.
But I have Kata as the toughest admission.
I just was hiding it from you until Thursday.
I'm glad you did.
Kata's been a revelation too.
He's been unbelievable.
But yeah Pritchard, he's the third best guy in a team that's basically the two seed or two or three seed and has the second rated offense in the league.
And he's a crazy one-on-one player.
There's also good stats on this too, but I test wise can beat guys off the dribble.
And then has this, this new TJ McConnell, this new revolution of these guards under the rim that can do these herky jerky double up fakes.
So TJ McConnell doesn't appear anywhere in any of this now because he's not playing.
Yeah, I think his body has finally won too many charges.
So that's the group.
So we moved Shepard into the 70s, which leaves us with Nembhard Wallace Chianti George Alex Saar Thompson, Stewart and Peyton Pritchard.
That's a really good group of basketball players.
Like, really good.
That group is called Valuable Assets on Great Contracts.
Yeah.
Okay, group K, This is called.
If you tell Shams, I'll deny it to the death, but I am absolutely, unequivocally 100 listening.
Number 52, LeBron James.
Number 51, Zion Williamson.
Number 50, Jaron Jackson Jr.
We did it.
Look at that.
He got traded.
And they probably said like, dude, you can't tell Shams until we agree on the deal.
He can't find out.
Not for anybody behind him, curiously.
No, not for anybody.
What was the, who were the other players?
LeBron Zion.
LeBron is like, Oh, and the Utah trade.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was like Clayton and expiring space.
Fine.
Here, here's my issue.
Um, I wanted to, to argue about Zion.
Okay.
Like all they're doing is listening.
I think he is in the same position as John Moran.
No, they're doing, we don't want to trade him.
He's finally healthy.
That's what they're floating, but nobody believes it.
It's because it's not credible.
I mean, I think that they would trade him if they got one legit offer with one player or one set of draft picks that would be interesting to them.
Is there a more fun trade on the planet than Zion Williamson for LeBron James?
And New Orleans agrees to immediately buy LeBron out?
Why would New Orleans do that?
If they got a first round pick.
Oh, okay.
What am I talking?
They're basically paying like $30 million for a first round pick and to get out of Zion.
I don't think this trade will happen.
I'm just trying to figure out how to get LeBron off the leg.
This is the problem I'm having.
How can we have Zion there?
That's a bag of chips trade.
You just traded Zion for a bag of Lays.
Where's Zion supposed to go?
In the 70s?
Kind of went on the list.
Would you trade for him in the Wizards?
Fuck no.
You wouldn't?
For what?
How does he help this young team get better?
How does he help the chemistry of this young team?
What's the food situation in Washington for him?
When he plays, there's great food in Washington.
But is it food that would make him put on weight?
You can do it all.
There is definitely food here that would be not good.
It is Chocolate City.
Mambo sauce on the chicken wings is not a low-calorie sauce, but the half-smokes from Ben's.
I can't move him out of this group.
I just think he's too talented because I think every team has meetings about whether they should trade for him or not.
He's too talented and he's young still.
But what teams?
What are they thinking that they have to give up is the hard question and the question for this group.
Yeah.
I don't think that it's very much.
Yeah, I don't know the answer.
He would not have fetched as much as Jaron Jackson just did.
I don't think so.
Yeah, I don't think so either.
I would have him in the same category as Carl Anthony Towns and Anthony Davis and Joel Embiid.
All right, I can do that.
I'll move him back.
I'll move him.
Would the Knicks trade Towns for Zion?
Oh, we have a trade.
This is unbelievable.
It's like the league was waiting for us to do this.
This is the trade deadline pod.
From now on, remember this.
Go on Tuesdays.
You need Zach on Tuesdays.
Huh.
Sean says, Jaden Ivey and Mike Conley Jr. to the Bulls.
Kevin Herter and Dario Sarge to the Pistons.
And Detroit receives a 2026 first round protected swap from Minnesota.
So that's basically just Minnesota dumping Mike Conley and not getting anything back and cutting 10 million out of Freeing money for Oh, look at this.
Oh, boy.
I see wind...
He's doing it.
So why is Minnesota freeing up $10 million?
Why is Minnesota?
Why would they trade a beloved teammate in Mike Conley?
This is great.
Live on Netflix.
This is amazing.
Wow.
Who is it?
Who are the candidates?
Let's go through the potential candidates to play point guard for the Minnesota Timberwolves.
Here's my number one.
Oh, you're going that way.
Could it be James Harden?
No.
Although that would be really interesting.
Wow.
The rerouting from Cleveland to Minnesota or the Cleveland deal.
The Cleveland Clippers deal isn't done right.
John Morant?
You cocksucker.
I just was going to say it.
That's the best one.
That would be effing amazing.
So for that one to work, Let me look at Minnesota's SpotTrack.
For that one to work, come on.
SpotTrack.
SpotTrack going slow.
A lot of people on SpotTrack right now.
Busy.
So Memphis did that 28 million trade exception thing.
And I wonder if that factors into anything.
They could also be a receptacle for an extra contract in the honest trade, if SpotTrack's just not working.
We're never going to know who's on Minnesota.
They don't have anybody.
They have Randles making money.
They have Jaden McDaniels making money.
They have Dee Vincenzo making a little less money.
Rob Dillingham, they could stick somewhere.
And Spot Truck doesn't work.
They need a bunch of those guys to make the run, to keep up the momentum, to be where they are in that upper echelon in the West.
They can't really.
Who's the most expendable of that group?
It's got to be Dee Vincenzo.
Does that create enough room?
The $10 million plus DiVincenzo.
And I think Randall's good.
Me too.
I wouldn't trade Randall.
I wouldn't either.
How would they do that?
I don't think Randall or Nas Reed or I don't think any of them.
So the picks in the Utah trade, they're trading their most favorable 2027 pick Cleveland, Minnesota or Utah.
So Memphis gets that.
They're trading the Lakers 2027 first and Phoenix's 2031 first to Memphis.
How do they have the Lakers 2027 first?
Cause I think it was one of the.
I think that was the what's the guy Vanderbilt trade from two years ago.
Okay.
That's not, those picks aren't that good.
So Memphis gets some half decent picks, but then they get, um, the trade exception, um, And they get out of that contract.
And that's the best they could do.
So we might have been in the right range with Jaron Jackson.
Right?
Yeah.
Okay.
Back to trade value.
Wow.
Keep those trades coming, NBA.
This is great.
What a great idea to go live.
Group J. Sorry.
We're pot committed here.
Darren Fox, number 49.
Five for 260 is his contract situation.
That's a lot of money.
OG Ananobi.
He's 48.
Next two I'll put together.
Pascal Siakam, number 47.
He's three years, 146.
Or Julius Randle, three for 100.
I think Randle has more trade value because of the contract.
I like both players.
I loved what Siakam did last year, but If I'm trying to build a team as cheap as possible, I'd rather have Randall.
This is true for live TV.
I have to run downstairs for 15 seconds to let my child into my house.
I'll do it.
This is great for live TV.
You locked your kid out.
I locked him out.
So you weren't even listening to my Siakam Randall thing.
They're in the perfect spot.
I just realized though panic.
Well, if we can throw to a break, we'll throw to a break, otherwise i'll filibuster.
Go go go, do your thing.
Okay, i'll keep going.
So minnesota, by shedding 10 million trying to find is there more?
This is hilarious.
I wonder if this has happened.
Does this ever happen on espn, where somebody just had to solo?
This happened once.
I did a rewatchables.
Um, and I forgot.
I brought the wrong iPad out and the iPad ran out of batteries and I had to leave the stage and run back and get the other iPad while uh, while Van Lathan and Chris Ryan filibuster, but house out locking out his own kid.
This is borderline child abuse by house.
Honestly, I'm glad you guys got to witness.
This is kind of father Joe houses.
Um, I can't find any more information about this trade.
There's house.
I couldn't find any more information in America.
Just decided you're a terrible father.
Okay.
We're back.
Are you back?
He wasn't really locked out.
Parent corner.
Pascal Siakam three for one 46 or Randall three for a hundred.
What do you got?
Those are both very fair contracts and both those guys.
I mean really, let's take 10 seconds to commend Pascal Siakam on the season.
Really?
This season, playing really hard.
Exactly.
I watched Indiana last night.
I know they're tanking, but they're not tanking.
That team was trying to win and was super competitive and was really upset that they didn't beat Houston.
One of the hardest teams to gamble on.
Yeah, it's a stay away.
It's a stay away.
Number 45, another guy who's played himself back onto the list LaMelo Ball.
Four years, 168 million.
The Hornets have won seven in a row and he has gone from maybe being in the vicinity of Trey Young and John Moran as a trade asset to, I think playing, maybe shedding that, and is a big part of what Charlotte does.
And I just think, when you combine with how popular he is in Charlotte, I just don't.
I think he's moved himself in the top 50 house.
I was prepared to fight this one as well, but there is a nucleus there.
Those, those, um, four guys that really play well together.
And, and the, um, those lineups, the five man, he's an important part of it.
Ball.
Yeah.
You really got to go with it.
You're rattled from being screamed at by your son.
I can tell everything's good.
Next three, 44, 43, 42.
Dylan Brooks, Zubats, Austin Reeves, all with really good deals.
Brooks is 21 and 19 for the next two years.
Zubats is in the 18 to 21 range and Reeves just has 14 this year and he's getting paid next year.
Would that be the order for you?
Brooks, then Zubats, then Reeves.
Reeves is going to get paid this summer is the problem.
I don't think it's a problem.
I mean, this seems super fair to me.
Um, I feel like zoo bots is going to fetch something meaningful potentially in this upcoming trade uh deadline.
You hear his name?
New Garland for Harden.
Yeah.
Dylan Brooks being number 44 in a trade value list, I think would have been 500 to one odds two years ago.
And five years from now, we might look back and say, Holy cow, that was insane.
I'm still watching Phoenix games. being unable to comprehend how they're this good.
Like Jalen Green's done nothing this year, right?
They basically have two guys that you would have counted on and then a bunch of awesome role players who play really hard, and it works.
And I don't really understand it.
We only have two sons on the list.
Number 41 is Aaron Gordon, who is- Did you apologize to Ishbia yet?
I'm not going to apologize to Hishby.
Did he apologize to me last year for killing our son's over bet when we bet on them to win 50 plus games?
It's a year to year thing.
The league goes up and down.
He apologized to me last year.
I had them as over this year.
Did you go over with them?
Of course.
Yeah.
I just thought that you're Mr. Over.
No, I'm going to get killed on a couple.
Um, Aaron Gordon, number 41.
He's three for 103.
Good contract.
I wish we knew he was playing all the time, but I also think he's so essential to Denver.
It's not like they'd be like, oh, we'll trade him.
Number 40, Kevin Durant.
Or number 39, Kawhi Leonard are the last two in this group.
Durant is three for 144.
Kawhi is two for 100.
Plus, you get to learn about planting trees.
If you have Kawhi on your team, carbon footprint big tree guy really cares about the environment.
My question for you do you think houston, knowing what they know now, do you think they wish they hadn't done anything and and instead would be good doing the godfather offer for yannis right now versus going in last june for kd?
Do you think they would want to mulligan on that deep down if you got rafael stone drunk at a hotel bar at two in the morning and be like come on, be honest.
Now we know, you know, would you rather just had kept the assets and made a Giannis?
So this season they would still had, um, Dylan Brooks and Jalen green.
Um, did they give up cap?
They gave up, uh, the number 10 pick to, Oh, your center that you wanted.
Who's in the G league.
Tough, tough, tough one for your scouting.
Um, um.
But it's interesting because now that now it'd be harder for them to pull the trade off, they'd have to put like they could have had green as the contract in it, now they'd have to put one of their good guys.
So i don't really know the answer, and it doesn't seem like you do either i.
I don't know the answer.
Well, if you were a houston fan, what would?
Would you be happy with this current outcome?
Um, only if steven adams wasn't hurt.
That's the problem.
But he gets hurt every year.
Like, is it like a shocker?
Steven adams got hurt.
Well okay, fvv and steven steven adams.
Yeah, that combo is tough.
When it was this song, you know right, they had fvv before that trade.
Yeah, are you okay with kawaii at number 39?
Yeah, i mean, you know.
Yes, he said sadly well, what are you gonna do the?
The He's on pace to.
He's only played 60 games once in the last six years.
And he's on pace to play less than 60 games again this year.
And when he's probably been one of the three best guys in the league for the last seven weeks.
Right.
When he.
I can't not have him in the top 40.
I'm with you.
I'm not even arguing it.
All right.
Group I is called that last group.
I'm Randall Ball, Brooks, Zubats, Reeves, Gordon, Durant, and Kawhi.
Big group.
Next group group I.
If you're dangling a reckless Bain-Bridges type, overpay.
Sure we'd love to talk.
Number 38, Franz Wagner.
Number 37, Bam Adebayo.
This is the highest he's ever been on one of these lists.
He's usually in the 20s.
Number 36, Trey Murphy.
Number 35, Lori Markkinen.
And number 34, Derek White, who is going to make four years 118 million over this year and the next three.
So he's under 30 a year.
Trey Murphy also has a good contract, 44112.
BAM is at 37 this year.
And then three years, 161 million for a guy who's shooting under 50 field goal and feels like he's worse than he was two years ago offensively.
And then Franz and Lori marketing are on big kind of basically max deals.
So any of those names jump out to you?
Well, here's, here's my, my proposal to you.
I would take this entire group and put them either in J or K, Like I don't, I don't.
I look at LaMelo ball and Trey Murphy.
I don't, Charlotte's not doing that.
They hang up the phone immediately.
Trey Murphy making $20 million less though.
But, but Trey Murphy at 25 and LaMelo bought 45.
They're getting what they pay for with LaMelo.
Like I bet them to make the playoffs.
I think we're going to see if he stays healthy.
I know.
Well, that that's right.
That was a bad example.
No, I think that's why he's in that group.
Let's do Franz and LaMelo Ball then.
Speaking of guys who can't stay healthy.
Franz has been hurt twice.
Right.
You can argue that Franz should be in the previous group.
I think that's fair.
I can move him.
And bam, you can move two groups back as far as I'm concerned.
I understand the immeasurable impact defense-wise.
And they did this experiment of playing at the fastest pace in the NBA Miami with the way they started the season.
But where the hell are they now?
And he's diminished his own trade value.
So here would be the counter on Bam.
He's playing on a team that doesn't really have a single player in their roster who would be like tonight?
I'm going to make Bam out of bio better.
Right?
Agreed.
What would he be like Like, what would it be like with a real guard?
Like, what if he was with Donovan Mitchell?
You know, somebody like an explosive guard that could create space for him.
I just think he's on a weird team.
Cleveland would be a great team for him.
Yeah.
So we'll go for that group.
I'll move Franz back.
Adebayo, Murphy, Markkinen, Derek White.
And the Derek White case is just... there's just nobody in the league like him right now.
When he's out there and this has been the case for years and years the lineups are just better and more favorable.
He just knows where to go, what to do, how to play.
He's an unbelievable defensive player.
I think he's in the running for top two all-defense teams this year.
And he's just additive.
He can't be one of the best two guys on your team, but he can be the third best guy.
I'm not going to say one bad thing about him.
He delivered a chip to you guys.
He was the most important player.
We're hitting a really fun part of the Trade Value Pod now.
33 guys left.
Group H, two guys.
Let me save you some time.
Fuck no.
Oh, my word.
We can swear on Netflix.
They just ran the rip.
Those guys are swearing at each other for two hours.
Number 33, Cedric Coward.
Number 32, Brandon Miller, who... this is a rare type of player, Brandon Miller.
We've had these guys throughout the years, these guys that they're not as good as you want them to be, but you don't care.
Like you watched him and like that guy might be.
Ray Allen was like this for a round and having a great career.
Yeah.
But these guys that you just watched them, you're like man, I'd fucking kill someone for that jump shot, man.
That guy could have 50 tonight.
Oh my God.
That it's so effortless.
Everything that dude does.
Like you just, He's just so talented, and I love his jump shot.
I think that might be my favorite jump shot right now.
Wow.
Is there anybody you'd have above him?
Your favorite jump shot?
Yeah, I think it is.
It's really great.
It's like an old school, awesome, awesome, awesome fucking jump shot.
Every time he shoots, I think it's going in.
If he's open, I just think, I assume it's going in.
And it's surprising when it doesn't.
Yeah, I really like him.
He's pretty good.
And Coward is just, wow.
So that's also part of the Memphis.
Have you seen him in person?
I have not.
I did not go to Wizards Memphis.
I mean, now he's probably the best player on the roster.
It's now a team that's Jalen Wells and Coward, right?
Yeah, Jalen Wells is a role player.
He could be good.
Yeah, maybe.
But they're in the full tank.
They have their eyes on the prize now.
So that would be a good over-under for us.
What do they have?
Oh, I already bet it.
I bet it under this week.
32 and a half.
Thank God.
Off the board now.
Fando's like, that over-under is gone.
We don't trust whatever that team's up to.
Okay.
I think Coward is incredible.
He's very dynamic.
You could argue both of those guys could be higher by the way.
You mean in, in, inside the top list?
Yeah.
I'm just saying you could argue it.
I think they're in the right spots.
Next group is a one man group.
It's called group G. Thank God he's on a poison pill and we can't seriously discuss this.
Palo Banquero.
Yeah.
Uh, they can't, there's no way to for them to trade him until the summer.
Um, You know, everything has been said.
Yeah, I think he's taken more shit than any good player this season.
There's signs of life with the Magic.
And sometimes taking shit can be good for a basketball player, as we've witnessed with Jalen Brown.
Right?
They need an overhaul in the approach. in their concept, in their scheme.
I tried to say that to legs last week.
Legs doesn't like coach stuff.
I know.
Moses has not done a good job this season.
They also never get their, their three best players healthy at the same time to play 50 games.
Never.
I will say with Paolo, he dropped, he was in the top 10 last year when we did this.
So now he's 31.
So that tells you all you need to know.
Seems fair to me.
I still feel like he could pull it back and be a top 10 guy again.
But the question for me is, if that's the guy that's taken most of your shots, where are you going?
Right?
Yeah.
I watched it.
Went to a Wizards magic game.
Wizards beat the Magic.
He didn't play very much in the fourth quarter.
He might not have played at all.
He shoots when he touches the ball.
Yeah.
And it doesn't matter where he is.
Group F, this is a unique situation and I'm hanging up.
Number 30, Tyrese Halbert.
Number 29, Jason Tatum.
I have no idea where to put these guys.
Obviously, they're not getting traded.
Obviously, nobody's trading for them.
Right.
We can keep moving.
Group B, budding but expensive.
Almost franchise, guys.
Almost.
Ooh.
Really interesting category here with the almost franchise guys, the not quite franchise guys.
You and I both have the same definition of a franchise guy.
You need to guarantee me 45 to 50 wins if you're on my team to be a true franchise guy in my opinion, or at least have the potential to do that.
I don't think any of these three guys do.
Number 28, Jalen Williams, another guy that's dropped.
Mm-hmm.
Number 27, Scotty Barnes, having a great year in Toronto.
And number 26, Evan Mobley, who has also dropped.
It's a great category and absolutely perfect grouping to have the three of them together.
All of them inside the top 30.
All making big money.
Deserve it, too.
All making salaries in the mid-40s.
So you're not getting deals anymore.
They're second contract guys.
And they're probably the second best guy on an awesome team.
In Jalen Williams' case, we know for a fact.
In Moby's case, we know for a fact.
In Barnes, we'll see.
He might be the top guy.
He might be.
Who?
Barnes.
But top guy on a finals team?
Probably not.
No.
He's the number two guy on a finals team.
Okay.
Group D. Some good either ors in this group.
We're down to the top 25.
Group D.
Number 25, Dylan Harper.
Number 24, Vijay Edgecombe.
Who hangs up faster?
The Sixers.
Sixers or the Spurs?
The Sixers.
The Sixers.
I think the Spurs hang up faster, but I still had Edgecombe ahead of them.
Yeah, Harper fits more where they're going.
That's fine.
I mean, I think he gets the benefit, Harper.
Actually, the Sixers hang up faster because they already have Maxie.
That's what I just said.
Yeah, I think they hang up simultaneously.
It's almost like a 24 A and B. Nope, we both hang up.
We're not interested.
No, thank you.
So we had a conversation about whether this was too high for Harper.
I'm not sold that this is the right spot for him.
You want to make the case or are you just going to be a wuss?
Well, only in the sense that I think Vijay Edgecombe is way ahead of Harper like not even close in terms of the value and impact.
And the proof of concept comes in the form of all of the clutch minutes that Vijay Edgecombe has played and propelling that team to the wins that they have.
There was no concept of that Sixers team coming into the season that he was going to be playing the crunch time minutes with the big S on his chest and taking very confident shots, shots that make sense of the offense, the last four-minute shots.
He's in a class of his own.
Honestly, I understand why Cooper Flagg is going to win Rookie of the Year if he doesn't get hurt again.
But I have EJ Edgecombe in the conversation for sure.
Wow.
I think that was your audition for being on an ESPN show.
What are you talking about?
Cooper Flagg and Knipple have been better than Edgecombe.
In what situations?
The Hornets sucked for the first 30 games.
It was the Canipos' fault.
Edgecombe elevated the situation.
I love Edgecombe.
I'm not going to argue the other side of Edgecombe.
He elevated the situation.
I think he's in an unbelievable spot where offensively, he literally doesn't have to worry about doing anything because he has a, right now, healthy Joel Embiid, with Tyrese Maxey on his team, averaging 60 points a game.
Anything he does is a bonus.
He didn't have Embiid at the very beginning and they weren't playing Embiid at the very beginning.
You made the key point.
He seems to really show up in the last three, four minutes.
You can feel him in the game.
And he's great at like.
I'm not really involved in this play, but I'm going to figure out how to get involved.
I'm going to run to the basket from the blind side and try to see if I can tip a ball, anything.
Totally agree.
And then defensively can do whatever he wants.
I love Edgecombe.
I love Dylan Harper.
And my only regret with Dylan Harper was I just wish he had more minutes.
I know why the minutes aren't there, but he's just, the team's almost too good for him.
But I think ultimately would benefit him because he's going to be in these playoff series in a couple of months.
I would have him behind a whole ton of guys that you have him ahead of.
He still remembered me fondly on my Dylan Harper number 25.
I would push him 20 places back.
2026 Harper is not wowing anybody.
Okay.
You're going against the guy who told everyone in July that Conk Nipple was going to be in the 2028 Olympic team.
Just, just warning you.
Number 23 in the apron-friendly untouchables, Jalen Johnson.
Five years, $150 million.
One of the better bargains in the league and has been really good.
I wish his team was more consistent.
You're the best guy on the team.
I need you to win a couple games in a row and then not do the thing where you win two or three in a row and you start getting excited and then you stink the next game.
There might be a coaching situation there, too.
With red glasses Quinn?
Why are they so inconsistent?
Why are they so underwhelming?
They killed the Celtics last week and it was like, here they go.
And then I think they lost two games later to somebody terrible.
They just can't get healthy at the same time and go on a run.
One thing with Jalen Johnson, unbelievable that he wasn't a lottery pick.
Remember he had that weird Duke season and he left early and he got the stink on him a little bit.
But that guy not being in the lottery is nuts.
Worked out for him.
Oh, another either or.
Number 22, Jalen Duren or number 21, Alperen Sengun.
Sengun makes five for 185 is his contract because he already maxed up.
Duren has not been maxed up yet.
So Duren's on a rookie deal.
And that could be the argument if you want to have Duren ahead of Sengun.
Sure.
That he's cheap.
But I'm, I love Sengun.
I, Every game, he almost gets in a fight with somebody now.
The UFC turkey side is really starting to come out.
See, I have Sengun up in the next group, the group C. I would have him.
You would have him next to Chet?
Yeah, I sure would.
Yes, I would.
Yes, yes.
So you'd have him on number 17?
Yeah, that class.
Well, let me read the next four guys and you tell me if you still feel that way.
Number 20, former wizard, Denny Avdia, who has the best contract in the entire league.
Three years, $40 million for an all-NBA player, potentially.
I'm not going to say a single bad thing about Denny.
I'm just going to make the observation.
His best use is high use.
He needs the ball to be this version of himself.
So how many situations can he have the ball?
At least this revelation of him.
Being on a 500 team makes sense for him to have the ball all the time.
But if it's a 55-win team.
Where he can have the ball all the time.
And he's constantly going downhill.
He's a downhill player.
So he's a specific type.
Again, love him.
Love him.
And look at Washington's explanation for why they had to trade him when they did.
A little side eye.
I will confess.
I'm not 100% persuaded.
Um, I do think ultimately, this group of kids, the timeline that Washington has.
But man, this version of Denny is really something.
People seem to be relatively surprised.
He was an all-star.
I mean, to me, it was like, yeah, I made it.
It was like, yeah.
Do you watch fucking basketball?
Um, to me, he's still in the NBA conversation.
He has, he did get hurt last week.
So he's had some back issues.
Number 19, Stephon Castle.
Number 18, Conn Knipple.
Number 17, Amin Thompson.
This is probably my favorite grouping of the entire list.
I think Thompson has to be first out of those three.
Knipple versus Castle is a great argument.
Knipple, you get an extra year of him on the rookie contract.
I honestly can't believe how good Knipple is.
I can't believe it.
I can't believe the shit he's doing in these games.
Like he's getting like hard baskets and, and you know, four minutes left tie game.
He's getting like physical takes a guy into, into the paint up fake, puts his shoulder against them, gets a 15 footer like professional baskets that 29 year olds make.
And then Castle, what he did to Durant last week was one of the great things anyone's done all year.
Like just absolutely gotten his shit and shut down one of the greatest scorers in the history of the league.
Just shut him down.
I don't care.
He's 37.
Literally a joy to watch.
Could not care more game to game.
Maybe cares the most.
Maybe I wouldn't say cares the most, but if you rate guys one to a hundred for how much you care about each game, he's probably a hundred.
It's not time for us to do this, but it's going to be really fascinating as the playoffs approach.
We try and forecast how San Antonio is going to perform in the playoffs.
Because the conundrum is as hard as they play, can they go up another level?
Can they go up another level against a team that plays them, you know, over a seven-game series?
Do they have the ability to change?
Right.
So this is the old football thing.
Are you the regular season really good team or do you have the other?
Can you up at one level for the playoffs?
The way that they came back against Houston last week and just took that game away.
And bullied.
Bullied Houston in the fourth quarter.
Yeah.
The history of the league says bet on the team that's a year too soon than a year too late.
And that if there's signs of what they did last week against Houston, bet on that.
Because in the playoffs, that tends to blossom in an even bigger way.
Castle, Knipple, Thompson.
That's about as... Really fun.
Like 20 years ago, all three of those guys probably would have been in the top 10.
Group C, the not apron-friendly untouchables.
And there's one argument to have, but let me read all the guys.
All these guys have big contracts.
Number 16 Chet Holmgren, Jamal Murray, Jalen Brown, Devin Booker, Donovan Mitchell, Jalen Brunson.
Number 11
And the reason he's number 11... is because by far he has the best contract.
He has four years for 156.
You're basically saving $10 million a year by having Jalen Brunson on your team.
And I think that swings it.
I have all these guys near each other.
Does that order look right to you?
Or would you raise your hand?
The only player that I'd like to have a conversation about is Chet.
Because this group of players right here are all guys that could absolutely.
We have proof of concept.
Jamal Murray helped Denver win a championship.
Crucial, crucial player to Denver winning a championship.
Jalen Brown, crucial player to the Celtics winning a championship.
Devin Booker, crucial player in the NBA... To make the finals.
Finals, right?
Jalen Brunson sacrifice.
However you want to characterize whatever happened with this deal, that whatever accommodations were made accommodated a situation where the Knicks have a genuine chance to once again be in the Eastern Conference Finals and make a push to get into the Well, that would be one thing why he would be more untradeable, because obviously
Things were said and things were promised.
Not a knock.
I think he's perfectly placed.
You can't trade him.
He's like, but wait a second.
What about that meeting I taped?
I don't have Chet Holmgren in this class is all I'm saying.
So it sounds like you want to put Chet Holmgren and Shingun together.
Yeah.
Honestly, I'd rather have Shingun over Holmgren.
Wow.
I think over the course of their entire careers.
Shingun has I'm going to knock on wood, I don't want to jinx him has the capacity to avoid injuries that have him out for extended stretches.
Right.
And he plays a very physical brand of basketball that makes him very special in this.
I mean, again, Holmgren's different.
Chet's had a couple injuries already.
I guess with Holmgren...
Um, the defense and then the metrics that back up his defense, it's way, way up there.
And you also feel it when Hartenstein goes out and all that like they've been on.
They were on a little bit of a slide into the Denver game.
Um, but on paper threes and rim protection, that's what you're looking for.
All right.
We can move.
So I can move Holmgren back.
Right after.
So it goes Thompson Knipple Castle, then Shengun Holmgren, then Avdija, then Jalen Dern.
I'll do that.
Let me ask this.
So I'd make group C would be Jamal Murray, Jalen Brown, Devin Booker, Donovan Mitchell, Jalen Brunson.
You like that?
Yeah.
Yes, that's very fair.
Okay.
We're now in the top 10.
And we have two groups left.
Group B.
Only if they made us do it.
Number 10, Steph Curry.
Number nine, Giannis and Ted Acupo.
So Giannis is making them do it and Steph, I guess, won't.
I wish he would.
The Steph thing's hard because nobody like.
Would it make sense for San Antonio to trade Steph and Castle for Steph Curry?
Of course.
What kind of question is that?
Right.
But they can't do it with the cap, because one guy makes 7 million a year and the other guy makes 50.
He makes so much money that it kind of throws off.
No trade is realistic for him, is my point.
For Steph Curry?
Because Golden State's not trading him for Brunson, Mitchell, Booker, Brown, or Murray.
Why would you at that point?
You're just going sideways.
Right.
You're not really trading him for one of these younger assets like Castle Knipple Thompson, just because what does that do for those teams?
I don't know.
Steph Curry on Houston?
For Thompson, FEV?
I would consider it.
Like, Amon is untouchable to me, nearly.
You just said you would consider it, though.
Fucking Steph Curry.
Poor Durant would be so bummed out.
He'd be like, what the fuck?
Now I get to hear that.
Couldn't win a title with that staff.
I'm trying to fix this, guys.
I'm trying to fix this staff thing.
And then Giannis if he had a contract that everyone felt good about and a situation that everybody felt like he was staying in, he'd be higher than number nine.
Sure, right.
He's going to get traded, so he can't be...
He will not be traded for any of these next eight guys.
This is group A, completely and utterly untouchable.
Number eight, Tyrese Maxey, and number seven, Cade Cunningham.
Two really impressive seasons.
Hangups.
Way to go.
Hey, I'm calling about Cade.
I'm just hanging up.
Hey, what's the deal with Maxey?
I hung up.
Here, I need to do it with both hands.
We need both those guys healthy for the NBA playoffs.
We need those guys in the Eastern Conference finals.
Or, you know, wherever the Sixers end up.
Max, he's hit a point where I'm not even sure who he reminds me of in NBA history.
Oh, wow.
He's almost like... I was almost thinking of other sports.
Huh.
Like, he reminds me of Jameer Gibbs.
It's the speed...
It's the speed, but it's like these little stretches, these four-minute stretches he has where he just completely takes over the game and the other team's helpless.
And you know he's doing it.
He's making every bucket.
It reminds me of those Lions drives where Gibbs is like, here's Gibbs again for 12.
Here's Gibbs on the wheel route for 25.
And the other team's like, we can't stop this.
Or Bijan Robinson when he gets like that.
That's what he reminds me of.
Yeah, these crazy athletes. just taking over a drive.
He takes over drives, even though NBA games are obviously different than football, but he'll take over these six minute stretches.
He's done it over and over again.
They'll be down 10.
And then all of a sudden, Maxie will just hit two threes.
He gets a fast break layup and he gets a floater and it's a tie game.
And the Philly fans are going nuts.
And we're like, what just happened?
They were down 10.
I don't, I can't think of any other players like him in history.
Yeah, and I'm not saying I'm not putting him up in the pantheon.
I'm just saying I don't know what kind of guard was like him that I've watched.
What's artificial intelligence say?
That's what we have to ask.
Are you going to like Gemini?
I'm in one right now.
The historical comp that comes up, speaking of AI, is AI.
Oh, that's interesting.
AI wasn't the shooter that Maxie was.
No, I agree.
I loved AI, and you and I were both... We were on the fucking wall with AI.
Deep, deep AI.
Deep, deep defenders of AI.
But yeah, he was streaky, but not like Maxie.
Maxie's getting the ball off rebounds, and you know he's going to go 80 feet, and he just does it.
And the team seems like they were completely surprised by it each time.
And then Cade, I mean...
The stuff he's doing where he's really the only option.
They just traded Jaden Ivey today.
They finally punted on that.
Play maker, play maker.
He leads with his chest.
I mean, can't say enough good things about that dude.
And all the losing.
That Monty Williams year just getting kicked in the nuts and kicked in the teeth for four months feels like Made him and a couple other guys in those teams.
So they have Herter now.
That solves one of their shooting open questions.
Maybe.
Or maybe you flip Herter into something else.
I still think that Michael Porter Jr.
He doesn't play defense, though.
Do you need defense on that team?
I think that team has enough team defense.
They're strong.
That's what Jalen Darnold is for.
After Porter fucked up that Celtics play a couple weeks ago, when we just got a wide open three to tie the game, I was like I don't know.
All right.
Here we go.
Most controversial moment of the column.
Of the podcast.
I don't even know.
Am I doing a column or a podcast?
The next two guys are number six and number five.
Number six, Luka Doncic.
Number five, Cooper Flagg.
Yeah, I mean, obviously.
Obviously what?
Say it.
Obviously what?
All you can do.
I think there are many, many teams in the league that would value many of the players that we've already gone through higher than Cooper Flagg on a rookie deal making like 11 million a year at age 19.
That's the argument.
Doing things at his age that nobody's done in the history of the league.
That's the argument.
Not even Kobe Bryant.
Right.
No, I get it.
Not even Kevin Gardner.
It is the evolutionary, you know, this is the version.
This is how we've gotten so lucky as we've gotten older.
The way that the league has developed, the way these kids come in more and more and more ready.
Like we went live through a whole history of of kids that jumped straight from high school into the pros.
And now you have to go through one year of college, but they're, they're very young in their first year of of college because of the way that the Yeah and he skipped a year of high school, so he was even a year younger.
They're all that reclass.
I was kind of trying to think about it.
Isn't that what it's called, reclassifying or whatever?
Well, he reclassed during the season because he went from being a really good rookie to a fucking animal in the last two months.
I cannot believe what I watched.
I watched the two Mavs games, the 49-pointer against Charlotte, and then I watched that other game the next morning.
It was Houston, wasn't it?
Yeah, 37, whatever he did.
I cannot believe.
I honestly cannot believe how much better he is than he was at the start of the year.
I can't believe it.
He has, I was texting with Legler about it because Legler did the Houston game.
I was texting the next day.
I was like, I don't understand.
This guy now has a finishing move where he goes left full speed and does this craning lefty layup off the glass that he makes which, by the way, it took five years for Jason Tatum to even have that shot and he misses it like half the time, or he missed it before he got hurt.
So he's got that as a finishing move.
He has this hesitation move where it seems like he's going to the basket.
He stops and then he keeps going that I haven't seen anyone stop yet.
He's got this move where he goes into the paint, spins around and does a little one-handed move like 12 footer.
He has that.
He's a pull up jumper already.
And he's running the team.
He's playing point forward for them.
Jason Tatum couldn't do this until like year five.
I'm dumbfounded by this.
This guy was supposed to be this awesome two way glue guy.
Had some offense, but was just impactful, Oliver.
This guy's an elite offensive player already.
Like if you actually watch those games, the shit he was doing was like impossible.
They couldn't defend him.
So that's my Cooper flag case.
Houston couldn't defend him.
Houston had a men Thompson on him and he was going by him.
Because he can start and stop in a way.
That pull up jumper makes him, you have to respect it.
Now he's by you.
And he's by you with both hands.
The full speed lefty.
He can fake the full speed lefty and come up.
He can go back, come up.
He can do the lefty and then he can spin into the right hand.
I just can't believe what I'm watching.
On top of he's a really good defensive player already.
Like really good.
I think he's like fine defensively.
That's the part of it that makes me.
Well, I think he should be a stretch four, but they're playing him.
He's guarding like guards half the time.
He should be guarding like Pascal Siakam and Jalen Brown and people like that.
I agree.
That would be the portion of it where, you know.
Well, so what's interesting about this is Cooper Flagg is five and Luka is six on this list.
Luka makes five times as much money and he's seven, eight years older, right?
They don't get Cooper Flagg unless they fuck up this Luka thing.
I was texting with our friend Jason Gallagher about this, diehard Mavs fan.
Oh, yeah.
And I was like, dude, you just have to admit this worked out.
It was horrible.
It traumatized the city.
It almost ruined basketball in Dallas until you ended up with flag.
I would just rather have flag.
I think in a weird way, but he was like, that's fine.
But we built this team.
He was like I see the case, but we built this team for Luca and we made the finals and we had a chance to win with Luca.
And he was saying what bums out the mass fans because they love Luca is that now Luca's on a mediocre team again.
And now he's two years away from being where he was two years ago.
And he just lost all this time.
So I think they just really wanted Luka to win a title like they wanted Dirk.
So I get it.
All that's super fair.
I agree with every single word that he said, especially the part about the Lakers still being two years away from having the right players around him for him to be the best version of himself.
And I will say having...
The good fortune of having great seats to see him, he's in shape.
He looks good.
Yeah.
He's moving good.
He was motivated because he knew he was going to get that triple-double in the first half against Washington.
Flag.
Yeah.
Holy shit.
He was 18 for the first two months of the year.
I just can't believe what we're watching.
Yeah.
You should not be able to do this before you're 20.
You should not be able to run NBA teams playing out of position and getting every shot you want and doing all the things that he does.
It's arriving with the brain is the thing.
That's why you have to live with it.
I also like that in two years, he's made himself so much better in all these different ways.
Clearly, he just works his ass off on his game.
And he's added all these different things that I just don't even think he had at Duke.
But what do I know?
Number four, Anthony Edwards.
Number three, Shea Gilgis-Alexander.
Number two, Nikola Jokic.
Number one, Victor Wimbinyama.
Anything off on that final four for you?
No.
Stealth you could make.
If we were on first take and you wanted to just zag, you could do the all.
Right, you have Victor Wimbinyama first.
Is he going to play 20 games in a row?
Am I going to get that?
Am I going to get nine months out of this guy?
Is he going to stay healthy?
Is he going to be healthy four years from now?
You would do that thing.
I'm cool betting on the 7'7 guy who's the generational freak.
I'm still going to bet on that.
Who's like 22.
Well, and part of what should be encouraging for Spurs fans and for Wembley fans is you can see him putting on weight this season.
He has, you know, developed a little bit.
But not in the Yao Ming.
This actually feels like it might be hurting you in a way.
He's still moving awesome.
Yeah.
Like it's making sense.
So if that's the path that he's on, at his height and his body can hold up and he can just grow in to becoming the version of the tough guy.
I mean, he's already pretty tough.
He is showing us that he's up for guys getting into him, getting into his shit.
I love how Oklahoma City...
He just enjoys torturing Chet.
He's made it a pet project of his.
That's really why you wanted to drop Chet into the 20s.
Well, Wemby's declared war on Chet.
And he's made him his bitch.
I mean, I think Wemby pretty clearly has done it successfully.
Chet is the defending champion.
Well, that's it.
Not a lot of drama for the end unless you wanted to have a Jokic versus Alexander debate.
For what?
No.
Yeah.
No.
I'm not doing that.
Okay.
And before we go, because I've had you for two hours.
I had a great time, by the way.
Thank you.
I've enjoyed it.
Did we somehow manage to not, you don't have to have any British tabloids chasing you.
Because that was like, what was it, two years ago we did the trade value column.
Yeah, that's true.
That's true. talked about.
I'd also like to shout out Cooper flags, mom, longtime diehard Celtics fan.
Um, I would encourage you to read in the CBA agreement that um, you don't have to sign a second deal with the team that drafted you.
You can just take it to free agency and bet on yourself.
And I don't think anything would be more meaningful to the flag family and to the region of new England for him to play on the Boston Celtics with his second contract.
So I'd like to shout out her.
I hope she's doing great.
Hopefully she'll come to all-star weekend.
I can maybe get a meal with her and talk to her and maybe become friends with her.
I don't want to prolong this show, but I am interested in how does Dallas kind of has to move up his timeline a little bit, doesn't it?
With how he looks now?
Yeah.
Yeah.
You have lively and you have Cooper flag.
What else?
Well, Live was out for the whole year.
No, I understand.
But you're talking about timeline.
You're talking about what are the assets?
How are you going to build around this kid?
What's the team?
Can I ask you one question that I was looking at for the play-in bets?
I'm listening.
Dallas is 33-1 to make the play-in.
Right now...
Hold on, let me find out.
Right now, they are the 12 seed.
They're 19 and 30.
They're three games behind Portland, who has 27 losses, and four games behind the Clippers.
And watching Dallas, they're in all these games, right?
They barely lost to the Lakers.
Minnesota beat them.
They barely lost to Charlotte.
They barely lost to Houston.
They beat the Knicks.
Gold State to beat Utah twice.
They're a 500 team with a guy who's getting better, and maybe Davis comes back.
I just thought 33-1, I thought, was crazy.
What if Portland tanks?
Is Davis coming back?
I don't know.
When's Kyrie coming back?
Hopefully soon.
Unless they're tanking.
They can't score at the end of games.
He's trying.
He.
Singularly.
Here's the other thing.
Since the start of this podcast, where we've had multiple trades and we sorted out the 80 best trade value guys and even moved some of the lists around a little bit.
It seems like the Timberwolves have moved all of their forces into Giannis Island and they're trying to invade.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
For this season?
Yeah.
That seems to be wow.
What's happening here?
Um, where we have?
They cut money there by getting rid of conley.
They have a little more flexibility and they seem to be rounding up now what they would have to do to get yannis.
It would involve randall, it would involve naz reed and d francesco, probably to make the contracts work.
Yeah.
They probably have to be a third team where somebody gets one of those guys.
And you basically just try to end up with Giannis and ant and go bear.
Right.
And just patch around, maybe get some buyout guys.
But I would think that would be their plan.
They have that Behringer who I really liked to that rookie.
Yep.
The French guy.
Yeah.
Um, maybe he could be in the trade.
They have some swaps, I guess they can do.
But um, My question is if Yana says to the Bucs I want a title for you.
I'd like to play with Anthony Edwards and try to win another title.
I've paid my dues here.
I've been here 12, 13 years.
I've been great for the community.
I've been an awesome guy.
Can you trade me to Minnesota?
Does Milwaukee then have an obligation to do that?
No.
And that's how I feel too.
They can say, we'll try to do it.
Yes.
But they have to, the offer has to be solid enough.
Yeah.
I mean, do we think that Portland in their deal with Milwaukee got back enough for Dame?
What do you mean?
When they traded Dame to Milwaukee.
Portland got enough back.
They got some kick-ass Milwaukee picks for the end of the decade that they were kind of banking on.
Hey, maybe this Giannis thing won't be working out five years from now.
We'll have some picks.
So that trade, remember that big argument about their offer versus the Miami offer?
That was never an argument.
That was just an argument for a lot of people who didn't follow basketball.
Right.
Um, yeah.
So Minnesota and then uh, I never have thought Golden State has enough and I don't know where he'd want to go there.
If he's getting traded, it's got to be to a place that wins the title.
Cleveland, as we mentioned earlier.
Especially now that Memphis has this trade exception, maybe they can stake salary there and figure out Mobley.
And I still think it'll never come out if Boston's involved.
But I'm still watching what Boston does.
The East makes more sense to me than the West, still because the West is so loaded and, by my forecasting, is going to remain loaded for a while yet.
Right.
So that's what you're putting yourself into.
Boston can go really stealth if they wanted to put Jalen on the table which, as I'm on the record as saying Jalen and Tatum.
I hope they retire as Celtics together.
But I'm just saying.
The Celtics could get the organization.
It's basically Chisholm and Brad and nobody else would know.
And if they really wanted to kick the tires on Jalen and Giannis as part of a package with some picks, and then Milwaukee could send Jalen somewhere else?
You're at least having lunch about that and talking about that.
If you and I were running the Celtics, we would probably have lunch.
You would probably overeat.
I would definitely overeat.
And then that's what happened.
By the way, chicken parm last night was great.
Kind of broke my carbs thing a little bit.
Because you knew we're going to be together at the end of this week.
You better get ready.
I'm prepared to be disappointing.
To be healthy as you look at me in disgust.
We'll see.
We'll see what comes to the table.
Whether or not you can resist it.
We'll be at Celtics Heat Friday and then Bob Cousy, the ceremony on uh on Saturday for our school Holy cross.
We get to, uh, watch them dedicate the court and meet the coups.
I'm so excited.
And apparently maybe Jalen Coker.
Hey, love that guy.
Our guy, Jalen Coker.
Um, the other thing is we're going to do our Superbowl pick at the end of Thursday's episode.
So it'll be like a 20 minute segment.
You have fairway rolling coming this week.
Yeah.
Uh, you're recording.
Take, get, get some coffee.
I'll be good to go. unlock your kid out of the closet.
Um, I have, we can go off.
I have rewatchables just went up wild things.
So you can find on Spotify, on Netflix, wherever you get your podcasts.
Next week's episode a spent Torah.
Oh, Yeah.
Great one.
Pet Detective.
That is our next episode on Monday.
Iconic.
That is on Netflix, by the way.
Both of the Ace Ventura movies are on Netflix.
You don't say.
We have not done that one yet.
That's amazing.
So we banned that one out.
Anyway, thanks to Gahal and Eduardo and everybody at The Ringer as well.
Don't forget to read TheRinger.com for all the updated stuff.
Enjoy the 48 hours leading to the trade deadline.
House, thank you.
See you in a couple of days.
We did it.
See you, buddy.
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