Ted Audio Collective Hello everyone, this is After Hours, I'm Felix I'm Mihir And I'm Youngmi She's back Oh, happy holidays guys, it's so good to be here Yeah, it's wonderful to have you I'm feeling so wonderful Although I hear I missed a pretty good time yesterday I got to tell you, the Felix Christmas
Party is becoming an institution It was spectacular Really?
Yeah, just the food alone I mean the cheese, the chocolatyrie, I mean it's crazy This is a host and of course Lisa as well, I mean they're just the hosts with the most Is all I have to say The host with the most What is impressive to me about the Felix Holiday Party is how long it goes Because people
come and go So from beginning to end, Felix, how long does it last?
So we start late afternoon and I think eight, nine hours is probably typical You know some people just like to hang out The Europeans The Europeans typically, yeah That's actually a fairly reliable way of meeting Europeans Go to any party and see who is it who doesn't know when to leave You'll meet
lots of Europeans here Well, that's a good way to close out the year Yeah, so thinking about 2022 I wanted to hear a little bit about what you liked What you didn't like about the year, do you have ideas?
Oh yeah So 2022 it is Alright, Young Me 2022, what do you like?
Okay, so here's something I liked The fall of FTX So now, to be clear, when I say I liked it I don't mean in a schadenfreude kind of way And it's definitely not for lack of empathy for the people who lost money But I do think in many ways this is the best thing that could happen for the future of digital
currencies And the reason I say that is for a couple of reasons First, I liked that it happened at a very early time in the industry's history Remember, five years ago most people had never heard of crypto So these are still the early days And because of this, it felt to me like a largely self -contained
implosion And by that I mean the world of crypto, even though it's very internally incestuous It's still pretty disconnected from the established legacy financial system This is why you see headlines about how many billions were lost But you do not see headlines that highlight the nice retired couple
down the street who lost their retirement savings So I like that Second, because these are the early days The learnings from this fiasco can shape the way the space evolves So just one example, even among crypto believers This implosion has already significantly shifted the mindset toward regulation It
has reinforced the role of transparency, consumer protections, having compliance protocols in place To date, it's been just a wild, wild west with so many grifters So it's kind of like a big caveat amtor to anyone who might have had FOMO about the place But on the other hand, digital currencies I believe
are here to stay And that includes CBDCs, stablecoins, crypto, these are here to stay And the health of the space is going to depend on how much robustness we can build into the system So one of the things that strikes me as really important is the point about contagion, Youngmead, that you made And
it makes me think a little bit about the way regulation should go In this case, if we can really isolate something like crypto from the real economy So that the person down the street doesn't suffer when one of these experiments go wrong The question is, how much regulation do we really want?
If we know that it's the wild west, then if we know there's a lot of innovation, there's a lot of questionable activity But in the end it's very much unconstrained That might actually be the better mix than, say, trying to make the crypto world very much like the regular financial markets In which case
there's probably going to be less innovation, less really interesting things The one thing you said, Felix, that I agree with is to the extent that a regulatory regime does emerge out of this It can't be a replica of the existing regulatory regime I completely agree with that And I even think that within the world
of digital currencies, the way we think about central bank digital currencies is very different than the way we should think about stable coins Which is very different than the way that we should think about crypto So I agree with all of that To date, though, I think there has been an almost philosophical
aversion to thinking about even the most minimal amount of oversight And I think this has shifted the mindset somewhat But I agree with you completely I totally see where you're going, Yangmi In fact, it's kind of related to one of my big things I loved about 2022 Although rather than think of it as
something contained, I kind of would broaden it out So a year ago, we were sitting at a point where Bitcoin was at $50 ,000 Facebook had just transformed to Meta The NASDAQ was at $16 ,000 And to me, this year is about, maybe unsurprisingly, the end of this crazy period The end of magical thinking And
so I feel like you that it's horrible to see that happen Because there's blood in the streets and that's terrible But it's a great relief to those of us who felt and continue to feel like none of that makes any sense To see some return of sanity And I think that kind of magical thinking has infected
so much And FTX and crypto is one example of it, but it ran through the whole economy And so for me, the thing I loved about 2022 was For too long, we were living in this artificial world And it feels like the beginning of the return to normalcy And I loved that about 2022 So can I push you on this here?
Because I have been thinking about this quite a bit And I can't decide if I agree or not And here's why It feels like the pendulum has swum back, for sure But I'm not sure I'm convinced that this is the new normal either In other words, to the extent that we were living in a somewhat artificial environment
As a result of low interest rates This, too, feels like an artificial environment in the opposite direction Where you have the Fed is absolutely determined to bring asset prices down And so this, too, feels unnatural to me And so I wonder if, in fact, the normal is somewhere in between these two Yeah,
that's a great question To my mind, I don't think so In the sense that I don't think the Federal Reserve is interested in bringing down asset prices I think they're interested in controlling inflation And the collateral damages, these crazy asset prices that we've had for the last two to three years
And it's a return to the things that matter, like earnings and like cash flow So I think of this as the beginning of the return to normalcy as opposed to a temporary thing But we'll see I know there's a heated debate about this, but my sense is it's just the beginning of the return I have an observation about the macro
economy as well And some of the news that I loved the best was just to see how much progress low -wage workers made this particular year And it's not only those in the lowest deciles of the wage distribution But you can cut and slice the data in any way you want And it's the most vulnerable groups that have made
the biggest gains So, for instance, on average, we have four or five percent increases in wages In the lowest decile of wage earners, it's seven, eight percent In fact, roughly 40 percent of low -wage workers have had increases that even exceed inflation Even though inflation was pretty high And so it's
been great for people with not that much education Maybe the strongest effect that we see is for young workers relative to middle -aged and older workers who have made a lot of progress So you can slice and dice the wage distribution any way you want And it's just really fantastic news Even if you were of the view
that, well, but inflation hurt most people, ate most of the wage gains If we really care about income inequality Seeing that low -wage workers make more progress than everyone else in the distribution of income That's a really important argument So I think the labor market all in all has been really
fantastic news for the most vulnerable groups And Felix, this feels like this thing is here to stay In the sense that, at least on the ground, it feels like the competition for hourly workers continues to be really, really strong Yes, that sounds exactly right to me And I would say two things have changed
One is this observation that there's a really hot labor market for hourly workers This observation that the very best way to participate in these wage increases is to change jobs And so you can think that competition overall has heated up And then there's also something a little bit about the mindset
I don't know if you remember, but the three of us had a conversation about minimum wage in Seattle, and we debated at that point in time Yeah, $13 is maybe okay About $15, oh my God, we're so worried how many jobs he will destroy And it's just completely irresponsible I think the conversation has shifted
so much So true There I see an openness to thinking about higher wages that definitely the three of us didn't really have And I didn't really see it among executives a couple of years ago Yeah, I think this is fascinating and I totally agree, Felix, it's something to feel fantastic about Especially
if we think that they have not been eaten away by inflation I'm curious what you think of as the causes for this I could come up with maybe three One might be there is news of increased unionization efforts So you could view this as being a reflection of that You could view this as a reflection of what you
just mentioned, which is maybe minimum wage laws Or you could view this as a reflection of a strong tide lifts all boats Which is just a very strong economy, very robust labor markets I tend towards that latter explanation Yeah, I completely agree I think it's one of the puzzles a little bit about the current
times You open the newspaper and you think we're in free fall And then you look at the data and you say, oh my God We have such an incredibly strong economy In fact, our only problem is that we probably overheated the economy with all the additional government spending And then the super loose monetary
policy on top of that But the general mood is not one of we're living in the best of times And I understand that is in part driven by quickly rising prices So when I go to a restaurant, it's not really hard for me to say if it's an expensive place or not Because I'm looking at much higher prices And
I don't know if I'm looking at inflation or I happen to be at an expensive place So I can sort of understand that this orientation that comes from a period with quickly rising prices But at the same time, the fact me here, you're exactly right It remains true.
The economy is in excellent shape And if you look at it, decile by decile by decile And you find that the four lowest deciles of workers have wage increases in excess of inflation I think that is just really something to celebrate and the only sad thing is that we don't Yeah.
Okay. So I have something else I liked I liked the quiet effective CEOs I know the media loves to write about loud, blustery CEOs Interesting.
I am so tired of the media obsession with Elon Musk What I liked about 2022 is that in fact, if you look closely There were so many business leaders you could point to who just seem to be putting their heads down quietly And trying to do their jobs Uninterested in drawing attention to themselves Just
focused on trying to be effective during some really challenging circumstances So Sacha Nadella at Microsoft, Brian Chesky at Airbnb If you look at Tim Cook at Apple, he's actually kind of in the middle of a firestorm right now The vulnerability of his supply chain The high take rates and the controversies
around the commissions in the app store And this is the year they're pushing into wearables and headsets And I'm not saying I agree with everything all these people are doing But I do appreciate that they're just going about it in what appears to be an ego -less way Sunar Pichara at Alphabet, even Dara at Uber
Didn't hear much from him this year Lisa Su at AMD All of these are aggressive CEOs So they're not just caretakers They're moving their businesses forward in aggressive ways But without any apparent narcissism I loved it I'm glad we don't pay much more attention to them Because it seems like they have no interest
in that But I do like the fact that if you just look one layer deeper At the people running some of the biggest and most important companies in the world They're actually being led by people who don't appear to be attention seekers in a narcissistic way I love that, Youngme, and I think you're absolutely
right Those names you named were exactly right Even in the retail sector, people like Doug McMillan at Walmart There's a lot of folks who are doing really good work You know, it's weird I used this term from Musk a while ago And it's really stuck with me, which is There's this id of managerial thinking
Which he just personifies But then there's like the ego The good people who actually reason through things And that's like a Tim Cook And I think that is what we should be paying a lot more attention to So I'm completely on board with you, Youngme And in part it's a story about CEOs But in part it's
also a story about business media It's just so much easier to follow the latest thing on Twitter I cannot tell you how I dislike these stories That is basically five tweets spun together Helped by a narrative that is not really a convincing narrative in the first place And what's really interesting
is What is it about the business media that we don't hear more about these quiet efforts Because you could write about There's a million interesting things going on at Microsoft The work that Larry Kulp is doing at GE Is completely invisible in the business press It's a really big important company
It's a really interesting way of running that company We just don't read about it And I can well imagine that the CEOs themselves Are actually quite happy not to be in the spotlight Because it must be incredibly distracting But seeing from the point of view of the business media It's mildly puzzling
that we go for the flashy thing When in fact there's so many interesting things to report Yeah, I agree Yeah Me here So I'll give you something else I really liked about 2022 Which is I think these last couple years have been tough for democracy And I actually think authoritarianism Took a big shot
backwards in the 2022 So we could easily have had the following happen in 2022 Russia could have easily won in Ukraine We could have had a bunch of election deniers elected in the US There could have been a coup in Germany There could have been an election in Brazil Where there was not a peaceful transition to
power And instead we had a peaceful transition of power in Germany We had a coup that was averted in Germany We had a pretty remarkable set of losses for election deniers in the US We had Russia I don't think anybody would have thought they would struggle as much as they've struggled And we've had I
think in China the manifestation of what is so difficult about authoritarianism So in the larger sweep of history I think the greatest crisis of our time is about authoritarianism And it's not time to celebrate But it is a time to feel good about people coming to terms with how problematic authoritarianism
is And how valuable democracy is So I feel better than I felt a year ago about that situation Not like high fives all around or anything But a whole lot better than I felt a year ago The one observation that gives me a little hesitation is If I would see among the people who are in the quote unquote
pro -democracy camp A real support of democracy Right As opposed to It just so happens that the rules that come with democracy favor my group a little more And maybe the best manifestation that I can think of is gerrymandering in the United States So obviously democrats will endlessly complain about republican efforts
to discourage voting And if I knew it comes from a place where they really care about turnout Turnout is just good for democracy and if we could we wanted everybody to vote Instead you see in places where the democrats are completely in control like New York They do the worst kind of gerrymander that you
can possibly imagine So it's not really buying into democracy It's just right now the forces are aligned in a way that democracy is good for me And so I like democracy which is exactly what I fear the most about authoritarianism I think that's right I do think though that there's something special about the really
authoritarian impulse As opposed to the anti -democratic impulse Let me try to distinguish between those two right The authoritarian thing is the strong man, strong woman thing where they really don't care about elections They don't really care about even vaguely democratic processes That's what I really
worry about We should also worry about what you're worrying about Which is just this battle on the front lines of why the US is not a more democratic country Because of gerrymandering, because of the Senate, because of lots of things I think that's true But to me the existential risk is the authoritarian one
And that's the one that I maybe feel a little bit better about this year Again, I'm not breaking up the champagne, but I'm feeling better I think in many ways the last decade has been sobering for Americans Who are probably really complacent about the strength of our democratic institutions And I for one
am still finding myself having to reconcile the fact that our country is split 51, 49, or 52, 48, but roughly 50 -50 in many, many ways And I think that has really been brought home to us Because I think prior to the last six or seven years There was just a sense that the arc of history, the arc of our
nation was just moving in one direction And I think what has been quite sobering for all of us is to sort of realize that No, actually there is quite a bit of division that we have to somehow figure out how to reconcile as a country Having said that, I agree completely with Mahir This last election felt
so important Aside from the outcome of the elections themselves The fact that we're not getting a lot of denialism post -election There are little spots, little pockets of it But the fact that that is not a dominant narrative right now Feels like a huge existential win And I agree with you about your
points around the world as well If you squint, you can see lots of reasons for optimism I'm squint, yeah, exactly Exactly, that's a really good one Felix, what about you?
This is going to sound shallow by comparison But I tried to buy a car in 2022 I cannot begin to tell you how miserable an experience it is You know, it's not something that you do very often And I thought, oh, this is 2022 Of course, I decide the car that I want And then I go online, I write to a bunch
of dealers They send me their prices and conditions and then I'm done In my imagination, that's how buying a car works in 2022 And I can tell you it cannot be more different In fact, what was maybe the most remarkable thing was how everything that was wrong With buying a car in the real world when you
actually went to a dealer They transferred everything beautifully into the online world So for instance, I happened to be abroad when I test drove the car that I was most interested in So I knew everything, I knew the car that I wanted And so it was literally just me writing to all the dealers in my
neighborhood And asking, do you have it and how much is it?
So the first thing you'll see is they're super fast at responding Like your inbox is full for weeks None of the responses have remotely anything to do with what you asked them And in fact, even after, I would say maybe two months of trying really hard I have failed to get a single firm quote for the car
that I was interested in Are you serious?
Frankly, it's in the end a little sad to see that the industry totally failed to make use of a new channel that they had First of all, I'm so sorry this happened to you But secondly, I was in the airport recently in the new LaGuardia And you know, it's interesting, it's completely different Now, let's
say you want to grab some food There's kiosks now, you don't order verbally Everything has been completely transformed And then when I got to my destination I had to go rent a car And it was like being catapulted back to 1970 And so it's like we're living in this world where there are some parts of our
commercial lives that have become very efficient Very streamlined And then there are other pieces of our commercial lives that have just become completely inefficient Continue to be filled with friction I don't have an explanation for it Well, I too feel like I'm sorry Well, there's plenty of demand in the economy,
right? Well, that's what I'm curious about So one question for you is Because the auto market has been so crazy for the last two years Is this just somehow about seller power?
And second question is, did you ever physically go in to any dealer?
It's clear they're trying very hard to move you back to the sales channels that they're most familiar with And I think that probably has to do with this negotiating power You would also get two levels of email So you would fruitlessly email back and forth with the salesperson And then maybe after a week
or so you would get the manager's email And the manager would ask you if the salespeople have done a good job But my sense is the salespeople are so constrained in what they can and cannot do It's impossible for them to do a good job And I loved your point, Yangmi You even see it in B2B software now
Where what we like and don't like is so informed by the best consumer apps So that many of the cumbersome B2B software is just like People look at it and it's like, what is happening here?
Because you're used to best in class experiences And instead of being inspired by what's possible today It is a little disappointing to see that the dealers haven't really taken advantage of all the opportunities that exist in this new channel Can I go on a consumer rant now, too?
So here's my little rant, which is I feel like Hokas have done the sneakers What Humvees did to the SUV I feel like Hokas are the new hummers Where everybody has got to get a sneaker Which is taller Like there's like a sneaker arms race Getting bigger and bigger I like it, the platform sneakers You
don't like it? I don't like it I love it, the big chunky ones What is going on?
Like people are adding inches and inches on their sneakers Yes, yes And I've tried Hokas Oh my God I don't know, they didn't work for me But I'm just thinking there's an arms race out there I think it's because women like it Is it about adding altitude?
First of all, they're super comfortable They're kind of bouncy Yeah, you add altitude, I think It gives you a different look I don't know This is just my theory, but I love it Well, sneakers have become obviously much more fashionable Into the last five or seven years Like so for example, you know the classic
Converse All -Stars Yeah I would never buy those But then they've gone chunky Platforming And I was walking by and I was like Oh, so I think all of these brands have discovered That they can increase their TAM If they just go chunky So that's what they're doing Everything's chunky Everything's kind of chunky
I'm down on it But here's where you're coming at I also think I don't need elevation for my sneakers Well, aren't you like six foot four?
I know, I get it, but I'm not a fan of this trend Are you into the dad sneakers that are really hot right now?
The kind of ugly dad sneakers Those are very big right now I don't think so But it could be accidentally I'm in that market An accidental fashion victim Exactly That's my rant All right, so that was something you dislike, but I like Yeah There you go Okay, so I can give you something I liked and disliked
At the same time Mm -hmm Great I like and I dislike the evolving workplace norms That emerged in 2022 So for example, I love casual attire I remember back this time last year Felix, you made a prediction that 2022 Was gonna be the end of the next time Yes I don't think I'm ever gonna dress business formal
again, ever I love this so much I also love that we can now be a little bit more thoughtful About whether we need to do meetings in person Some things you actually can do via Zoom What I don't like is I see a lot of companies and employees Being knee -jerk in having a point of view And making blanket
statements like We need everyone back in the office Or I'm never sitting foot in the office again The idea that one size fits all makes me kind of crazy right now But there's a lot I like about it In particular the casual attire To me it's so interesting how more formal attire has now moved From the typical
thing in the workplace to selected places in our free time Social events, right?
Yes Yes I noticed it first the number of restaurants that now require jackets It's not like your great grandfather's nightclub Oh, we are a jackets only place But really cool hip places that all of a sudden will not accept someone If you come in even the chunkier stuff sneakers It will require more
formal attire I was recently at the symphony And I noticed the mix of people who dress up completely changed It used to be, I don't know, maybe 50 % jeans, 50 % a little more formal Now I think it's more like 70, 30, 80, 20 or so And I love this, like this observation that it's not uniform like And you
have to look that way because you're going to work But you're choosing to celebrate particular moments in life You're doing something special and then you dress up and then it's really fun I think what's interesting Felix about what you said is It's not that, in part, the ratios changed maybe from 50,
50 to 80, 20 But it's all of these kinds of different events have now more heterogeneity than they would have had otherwise So at night out at the theater, 20 years ago, there was a uniform for that Or 50 years ago, there was a uniform for that And now you will see people who are dressed in that way
that they used to be dressed But then there are going to be people who have a different notion of what formality is Or a different notion of what dressing up is And similarly in the workplace, I think the good news is It's not all sweatpants and yoga pants Oh, yes, I completely agree And many people
have different interpretations of what smart casual means It allows for a lot more expression So, I think the good news in all these things is You know, I'm not exactly somebody who should comment on this because I wear one color all the time But there's more opportunities for expression in all these
different settings So I think that's all very, very good Yeah, and I think in the workplace, you still want professionalism But what I have found is that even though there is so much more variety It's still very respectful It's very nice, and it doesn't seem to get in the way Felix, what else do you
have? So I have a little public announcement Uh -oh Can we please stop building platforms?
Are you talking about elevated sneakers?
I'm thinking about online intermediaries Oh, the business model, okay That are supposed to somehow make the world a better place And they mostly don't I had a window renovation project And when you go online, there's like so many opportunities to be paired with contractors And be paired with manufacturers
And be paired with insurance companies that will ensure your new windows And there's an endless list of services And basically what all of these companies do as far as I can tell is They collect your information And they probably get some kind of a fee For relaying that information to someone who A,
actually knows which questions to ask And B, who provides the actual service So we have hundreds of layers in the economy now That are just totally useless And the lure I think is just Oh my God, here's a business Where we basically don't do anything And we get to be rich if it happens to scale Because
we can charge referral fees And it creates the worst of customer experiences And frankly, when I just think If all of these people actually fixed windows Did something meaningful Added value to the economy Oh my God, it would be really amazing But no, we're all in the referral business right now And
it's just horrible I think what you're saying is profound and right But I'm curious about why you think it is Partly because people want to start businesses that are absurd I get that But isn't it also that they've gotten something wrong About where and how platforms add value My intuition is that It's
not that there are not problems to solve So window installations can be done at various levels of quality And since it's not something that you do very often Knowing who will do a good job and who will not do a good job That would be really valuable But of course, at the same time It's expensive to
do And it's not the easiest Because how would you know whether a contractor is reliable, not reliable And so my sense is It's part of thinking about the economy as sort of a lottery And if you hit it big, it will be really amazing But you know that the probabilities are not so great And so people are just
lazy I do think it's the thing that you said though Mihir Forgetting that the whole idea is to add value If you're going to insert yourself in the process As a platform provider Then there has to be a huge value add And it's got to be in the form of, number one, saving the consumer time And as well
as a supplier time Making really good matches Making the whole process more efficient Saving money for everyone I mean these are all value added benefits associated with having that intermediary If not, then you're just an intermediary And to Felix's point, it's like, why are you there?
Okay, how about you, Mihir?
I've got something else I'm a little down on And we talked about this briefly But I've become kind of really down on this woke capitalism thing BlackRock, as one example, has been accused of being a woke capitalist And on the one hand, I'm kind of sympathetic Which is, I'm no fan of corporate purpose
and ESG But the folks who are angry about that have kind of taken up this banner of woke capitalism And suggested that somehow people are using corporations in these deeply political ways I think the problem with the movement that I feel is It's kind of self -defeating By using that phrase, first off,
it is so difficult and polarizing But more to the point, if you want corporations and businesses to be less the subject of political debates And less active in those debates Then by using that phrase and by painting them in that light And by doing it in such a polarizing way, you only add to the problem
So in a way I'm sympathetic to the idea that maybe ESG and purpose have gotten way out of hand But by brandishing these terms and basically playing the same game in the other direction It also feels problematic So, I don't know, I'm kind of over woke capitalism I love how you delineated the fact that you
might have your own personal concerns about ESG But there's something else that happens when you label it woke capitalism And you try to put it in a box and create this polarization I mean, ESG is a very nascent concept And the way we're implementing right now, it's kind of all over the place And we
can have a conversation about to the extent that it's productive or counterproductive And I think that's a really healthy conversation for us But when you try to label something, oh that's woke capitalism, put it in a box You're trying to end the conversation And you're trying to say you're either on that side
or you're not It's really counterproductive And I think that there are a lot of companies that are earnestly trying to do the right thing And not in a crazy way, but in a sensible way, in a socially responsible way And they're trying to thread some very difficult needles And it doesn't help when you're
trying to label things one way or another I like that one Felix, what else do you got that you like?
I had this one moment in March of 2022 that was magical And I think I will not forget it for a very long period of time Was that when we taped that episode?
That must have been one of our taping, Felix Yes, that might also be true, although we'll not forget for a long time I'm not so sure Sorry, Felix It's right after spring break and I taught one of the first -year classes in the MBA program And we were allowed to take off the masks And I thought, well,
you know, no big deal I know everyone, we've had conversations for the first part of the semester And then taking off the masks was just absolutely magical People laughed, people responded differently to each other's comments And it was just this really wonderful reminder of just how rich human communication is outside
what we say to each other And one of the things that was interesting for me was I completely underestimated it I had such a diminished functional view of what conversation in the classroom is And then it just reminded me of how totally wrong I was about what it means And the meaning that gets transported
among people who like each other and cheer each other on and want to have a good time I got goosebumps right now And this is why end of the year is such a good time Because you also have reminded me of something very similar that happened to me Which is the first time I taught without a mask I also was just
overjoyed and I remembered why we went into this career in part, right?
Like, it was just such a special time, and I'd kind of forgotten that And so I'm so glad you reminded me of it, because when we were teaching in masks, frankly I was fine with it It was okay, it was fine Yeah, totally okay But then when you lose it, you realize just everything you said is exactly right,
absolutely I totally agree too, that's a nice one Yeah Yeah Do you have one more, young me?
Oh, I have one more Here's something I liked but also kind of terrified me in 2022 The glimpses of the future we got this year from OpenAI So OpenAI is a research lab pushing AGI, artificial general intelligence Yeah Released two betas, I'm sure you guys saw, two betas this year that blew my mind So
the first was DALI By the way, for our listeners out there, if you haven't tried these two betas You should go sign up at OpenAI and just play with them They're incredible The first is DALI So this is an AI system that generates original art Just from a natural language request So you can say, hey,
show me an image of a piece of furniture in the shape of a banana or something But rendered using a Picasso -like style or something like that Or you can say, give me a van Gogh -like painting of a Harvard Business School professor Drawing an equation on a chalkboard I mean, it's crazy It's fabulous,
yes The second one, you guys have tried chat GPT, haven't you?
Yeah, of course Have you had long philosophical conversations with chat GPT?
I mean, it's astounding It's astounding It is a chatbot that uses leading -edge AI You can have a conversation with it about anything It can produce text or answers on command You should not let your daughters go near it when they do their homework I agree Because you can say, write me a two -page essay
comparing these two works of literature Yeah And it will just spit it out Produce something fantastic, yeah One of the most remarkable things is I would ask different questions Like, give me a list of M &A targets, like those kinds of things And very often the answers are spot -on Or like, do you think
there is excess supply of office space in the United States And the answer you get is just unreal that a machine can answer But then what I also found is if the answer is profoundly wrong It also sounds very convincing Yeah, super -confident It's almost like a person with no filter It can be completely
misleading But doesn't it make it seem even more human?
Because it's like having that dinner party guest Who's just completely wrong but yet totally confident And just go on and on And you're thinking, that person's completely wrong But they're 100 % sure they're right But I wonder, in these dinner party conversations I often find when you then push a little
bit You will eventually, I think, get to a set of assumptions that the person makes A particular set of experiences that are maybe very different from your experiences And you come to see the world very differently But what I suspect with AI is there's no such thing It's just localized misinformation that happens
to be aggregated In a way that ultimately produces nonsense Think about it in medical applications No, I know, but this is an early version though, right?
I can confess, I had two very weird reactions to it I switched between, oh my god, this is incredible But then there were other times when I'm like, wait, this just feels like somebody's googling You know what I mean?
It's a set of different than a bunch of people googling But the other reaction I have is I'm just trying to think back to Felix's last thing he liked Which was this wonderful portrait of human communication and the joy of teaching without a mask And this time that we are all spending with chat GPT Where
we're amazed at the humanity of this intelligence And I don't know, there's so much of a contradiction between those two experiences So this is why I like it now, but maybe I don't like it I don't know how I feel about it But I was thinking about 15, 20 years ago One of the reasons Google, and to some
extent the iPhone, transformed our lives Is because they gave us access to digital information in a very organized and coherent way Since then, so many consumer innovations of the past decade Have all been built on top of that basic functionality So let's build a social network based on that digitization Or
let's build a mapping system or let's build an e -commerce system And I think with chat GPT and Dolly, it feels different Because you're not just organizing digital information They're actually producing content And so now if you imagine, let's say, a decade of new applications built on top of this fundamental
technology I don't even know how to think about that I think about that, that's when I freak out a little bit Where's this going?
Because OpenAI will take it so far But it's the stuff that's built on top of it that I think is going to blow our minds The other element that I find so interesting here is that these two advances don't come from the largest and richest organizations in the economy In so many ways, you always think,
well, AI is sort of a game for the big guys Who have unlimited access to data, who can throw thousands and thousands of research scientists at a particular problem And here you have a modest size outfit That basically does amazing work So part of what I loved about the story is that it didn't come from Microsoft,
that it didn't come from Apple, that it came from another organization Did you guys know it could create poetry even?
Oh no, I fear the worst So right before we began taping, I went on and I asked it to produce a poem about after hours You want to hear it?
Okay, this is what it spit out Introducing After Hours, the podcast with Flare Hosted by three professors, each with expertise to share There's the finance guru with numbers flowing through his veins He'll make you groan with his jokes and puns while still making you think about everything There's the strategy
whiz who bursts with insight and wit You're chuckling and learning at once It's all a perfect fit And then there's the consumer junkie She knows what makes people tick She dishes advice on branding and marketing and how to make your products stick So tune into After Hours and hang out with this motley
team Listening to this podcast is sure to make your day dream Oh my god He's crying, I wish they could see you right now It's hilarious Isn't that hilarious?
It's so good, right?
It's crazy It's so good and they got that motley part right for sure Yeah, the motley team Oh my goodness That is spectacular But you know what's crazy is I first said, give me a poem about three professors A finance professor, a strategy professor, and a marketing professor So I started with that Mm
-hmm And so then it gave me and then I realized no, no, no, I want one about After Hours And so I said, give me a poem about After Hours, a business podcast And because it was part of the same conversation, it assumed that the professors were in the podcast Wow That's why it had the stuff about the professors
Yeah And the one other thing I should say is it gave me a poem So I read it and I just wrote, make it lighter and funnier And then this was it This was it Because the one before it, it was a little bit serious And so then I said, make it lighter and funnier And then it gave me this one Wow And I was like,
oh, I'll take this one Okay, we'll post it on our website No we won't There you go Okay, recommendations for the end of 2022, Felix, what do you got?
I have a book that I just finished reading that I absolutely loved It's by an author I had known before, Chibonanda Ngozi Adichie And maybe best known for Half of a Yellow Sun But this is an older book of hers called Americana And it's the story of a Nigerian person who moves from Nigeria to the United
States And then experiences the United States as a Black person in America But also as a Nigerian in America And much of the story revolves around these two parts of her identity And how they relate to what happens in the United States at this period of time And what I find absolutely fascinating is As
a person who moved from somewhere else to the United States myself There was always this interesting contrast Some of the things that you will experience in America today You only experience when you're Black And it's really race And for her and for the person in the book Everything is reflected as
a function of her being Black But I share many of the experiences that this person has Even though obviously race is not the underlying cause So for instance, and I think everybody who moves to the US will notice this You have to be really exuberant in your use of language You have to say wonderful
and spectacular and amazing all the time And so she talks about how the use of English in Nigeria is very different from the use of English And of course it's like, oh yeah, yeah, I went exactly through that same thing And I said, oh my God, all of a sudden everything is wonderful and amazing and terrific
And it just made me think a lot about which part of our experiences really reflect The kinds of things that we think they reflect Maybe it's the more salient part of our identities And which parts just have to do with different countries or different places A really wonderful book I've heard others
talk about it And I've read reviews of this book And no one has described it the way that you just did, Felix I think you might love it I'm sure you've read reviews of this book I've never read the books, but she's gotten a lot of attention And it's a good reason to kind of actually take it up That's
great Yeah, you really did sell it Ooh, fabulous Alright, so Young Me, what do you got?
So you guys, recently Christine McVie passed away Oh, yeah So for anyone who is of our generation She was, of course, a seminal member of Fleetwood Mac And I just grew up listening to Fleetwood Mac I had a poster of them I'm like, whoa, I was young It made me so, so sad I was such a big fan And so,
of course, if you want to go back and sort of relive the heyday of that band You know, the big album, of course, is Rumors Yeah People love the album that came before That featured Rhiannon Tusk is a very controversial album Tusk But I loved it But if you want to really do a deep cut My favorite album
was their 1980 live album Mm -hmm Oh Which captured them at their very peak And it's got a lot of their hits But it's also got some deeper cuts But it really just captures the band live at its prime And as many people have talked about There was something about the harmony of those three voices Christine
McVie, Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham That was just not just magical But really captured that moment in time Mm -hmm And it was just so fantastic So I have been listening to that relentlessly since she passed That's my recommendation That 1980 live album from Fleetwood Mac What the fuck I have to
say, that Rumors album is the one I remember the best Oh, yeah But I also had this weird memory Because at the time I was like, I don't know, like 10 years old And it came out at the same time as Talking Heads 77 Oh yeah And I remember I said this thing to my brother And I was like, it was probably
the most brilliant thing I ever said Which was, the Fleetwood Mac band, they all look so weird But the music is so normal And the Talking Heads band, they all look so normal The music is so weird For a 10 -year -old, that is very insightful Wow That is so true For fun It's been all downhill since then
Oh my god, that was true Well, that was a good air of music My god, wasn't it?
I mean, all that music That was Okay, what about you, Mehear?
So, you know, immediately when I think about the phrase accessories I think of something that's optional Something that's extravagant Yeah Something that you don't need Yeah But I'm here to tell you that the key to surviving any winter Is a great scarf True I was recently gifted a wonderful scarf by my daughters
And I gotta tell you, if you have a good scarf You don't need a coat You don't need anything A good scarf that allows you to feel warm Now if I don't wear a scarf I'm actually really cold Yeah So my recommendation is to treat yourself to a wonderful scarf Now Mehear, is this a nude discovery?
Because I know that Rowie is Mr.
Scarf Well, he's the champion Although he wears a scarf like all year round All year round Zilke comes, preferably This is like a winter I don't think Rowie's scarves are about heat Yeah, exactly I can wear a sports coat and a scarf And you're in great shape You don't need to be any warmer And then
it's just the ultimate winter thing And I've only discovered this, frankly, over the last five years I never cared about scarves And now scarves are the best thing Yeah And I have this strange day in the spring For the first week when you go out and you don't wear a scarf Yes You feel like you're underdressed
You know Nothing to do with temperature And your neck feels naked Yeah It's really strange Totally Well, I have to say that you guys look good in scarves Both of you Thank you Probably to be honest, Rowie is at the top Yeah So no one reaches Rowie Heights when it comes to fashion and scarves But I would put
the two of you right underneath that Oh, fast followers is what we call it I think we need a chat GPT poem about Rowie and scarves Scarves Absolutely So that was so fun, guys Have a good holiday Have a good holiday So this was it for today Thank you for listening After Hours, a podcast from the TED
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