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People, my people, what's up?
This is Questlove. Man, I cannot believe we're already wrapping up another season of Questlove Supreme.
Man, we've got some amazing guests lined up to close out the season, but you know, I don't want any of you guys to miss all the incredible conversations we've had so far.
I mean, we talked to A.
Marie, Johnny Marr, E.
Johnny Schechter, Billy Porter, and so many more.
Look, if you haven't heard these episodes yet, hey, now's your chance.
You got to check them out.
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Hello and welcome back to the Psychology of Your 20s, the podcast where we discuss and talk through some of the big changes and transitions of our 20s and what they mean for our psychology.
Hello, welcome back to the podcast.
I hope you all had a really lovely holidays, whether you were by yourself or with your family or with friends.
Yeah, it's a beautiful summer and your COVID is kind of ruining a lot of plans, so if that's what happened to you, I'm really sorry.
Hopefully, it picks up in the new year, not case -wise, but, you know, fun and emotionally wise.
So today, we're talking about a concept that we all kind of have to become familiar with in our 20s, forgiveness.
There's surprisingly a lot of research and insights into how our minds cope with forgiveness and the emotional reactions kind of surrounding it.
And I think forgiveness is such a loaded word.
It's been tossed around self -help circles for years, but I think little has been made of what the science behind forgiveness can teach us about our own lives.
And there's also a lot of advice about how to process forgiveness and why philosophy of forgiveness in our lives.
A personal philosophy is great for our well -being.
It's good for our relationships and overall peace and satisfaction.
And I think it's a process we have to become incredibly comfortable with in our 20s.
As we face wrongdoings, we face conflict and spites.
We have a lot of interpersonal growth that maybe comes from people doing the wrong thing.
So let's dig into all the nitty -gritty psychology behind, letting go those feelings and thoughts of resentment and bitterness, anger and the need for vengeance against people we believed have wronged us, including ourselves.
Forgiveness of others is kind of the main thing we often talk about, but forgiving yourself for things and mistakes you make in your 20s, of which we will all do, is equally as important.
So let's really dive in and learn some more about what psychology can teach us about forgiveness.
Forgiveness is so important in our lives.
Inevitably, people are going to wrong us.
They're going to hurt us.
And we kind of have two decisions to make after that happens.
Either we can hold onto it and let it build anger and upset inside of us, or we can possibly forgive and let some of that anger go.
Before we kind of get into it, I think we just need to dive into a few caveats before we get started.
Because I think forgiveness is a very nuanced topic.
It's not straightforward.
And that really should be reflected throughout our discussion and throughout some of the advice that psychology tends to give us.
I think, firstly, there are some things that are unforgivable, and that benchmark is totally subjective.
If someone has hurt you or violated your boundaries in a way that you don't believe deserves grace, that is entirely your decision, and you're not obligated to let go of those feelings of hurt for the sake of the other person.
I think there are so many instances that we can all kind of think of where you probably shouldn't forgive someone.
You can try and move on, but they might not deserve for you to have to process their actions in a way that kind of redeems them.
And I think, as psychology would say, forgiveness does not mean forgetting.
Your memories of a pain or a betrayal are not eradicated by any kind of process you go through, especially not overnight.
Maybe not ever, either.
But I think, from my perspective, forgiveness is never for the other person.
Staying angry and resentful and vengeful, it kind of comes at a price.
All those feelings can have a really detrimental impact on your physical and emotional health, as well as your relationships.
That's why, at the end of the day, forgiveness is really for you.
It allows you to have peace and to view another person's actions as a result of their past, of their decisions, their flaws, and not your own, which I believe is really freeing.
And this also applies to yourself in many ways, in probably all the most important ways.
If you hold on to feelings of resentment, maybe resentment against yourself and anger at yourself, and you let yourself stew in that, you are allowing your actions or their actions, if it's another person, to continue to kind of live rent -free in your mind and impact you when you can't be confident
your actions are influencing them in the same way.
You continue to hold the weight of their actions within you.
And it's kind of like quite an unfair equation, I think.
You're the one who's suffering, and it's kind of, in some ways, their fault.
And that's why forgiveness is really kind of a personal responsibility and kind of something that has a lot more personal benefits than it is for the other person.
It's not absolving that person of any guilt.
It's allowing yourself to clean your mind of their wrongdoings.
Okay, that little tangent out of the way.
I think it was important to kind of clear that up because there are many instances, I'm sure we can all imagine somewhere, forgiveness is not possible, and that is completely okay.
But let's talk about some of the times when it is.
This is what psychology today has to say about the idea of letting go of those nasty feelings of resentment that so often come when someone wrongs you.
Forgiveness is really the cornerstone of any relationship, romantic or otherwise.
We assume people see life the same way that we see life.
However, there are as many perceptions as there are people in this world, maybe even more.
Our luck of understanding of other people's perceptions, that's what can create those gaps that lead to miscommunication and anger, animosity and emotional disconnection.
However, our relationship with forgiveness can help kind of bridge those gaps to hopefully a better outcome.
And we can intellectualise forgiveness as long as we want, but it's a process that takes time.
It takes a lot of time when betrayal and miscommunication inhibit our ability to forgive.
It's okay to feel those feelings.
Shock and anger often come before forgiveness.
It's like the grief process.
And we must first deal with those hurt feelings before moving into forgiveness.
And let us respect that process, a process that can happen sometimes without us even realising it.
Sometimes by simply exploring the situation and acknowledging the impact of the betrayal, the reasons and the context behind the betrayal.
That can be the kind of beginning foundation of future peace, maybe forgiveness, maybe giving some people grace, understanding that their actions might not reflect the best parts of their character.
But if you're finding forgiving someone hard, there's this idea in psychology called radical responsibility.
And I kind of really geek out about this because it was a philosophy that I intentionally adopted at the end of 2019, and it helped me immensely.
I talk about this all the time.
I think it is one of the best contributions of positive psychology ever.
So radical responsibility, it kind of requires being accountable for yourself, owning your actions, owning your feelings, thoughts and behaviours.
And it involves voluntarily embracing 100 % of responsibility or ownership for each and every circumstance we face in life, day in, day out.
This has nothing to do with self blame.
I think it's often misconstrued as making yourself accountable means making yourself feel bad.
You know, nor is it kind of about heroically taking on some burden of some kind, making your, you know, meaning that you're a better person than others because you are more responsible for your actions, more radical in how you take accountability.
It's just kind of an act of self empowerment, choosing to focus our available time and energy where we actually have influence and that's completely ourselves and our choices.
We cannot influence people to the degree that we sometimes want.
But I think one way to make yourself feel better is that you can influence yourself.
You have complete autonomy, although that's kind of up for debate, but you do have autonomy over what you choose to do in a situation.
And rather than reacting with fear, running away or denying that you have any power over what is happening, you kind of have to take the action to avoid reoccurring harmful behaviour, either done by yourself or done against you by others.
And you have to recognise behaviours that are unhealthy without judgment, without blame and take responsibility for that.
Okay, so how does radical responsibility to relate relate to forgiveness?
Because I know it kind of seems a little bit out there.
Well, I'll tell you.
I think it kind of relates in two ways.
Firstly, you can recognise how we all make mistakes with radical responsibility.
If you can accept that we all have ownership over our own actions, you can understand that you may have made the same mistakes that you're upset about with someone else, because it's completely it's all on us.
At every point, we have to take ownership of our actions.
And I think it allows you to think about whether you would like to be forgiven if you made the same mistakes.
That's something that I really, really think about when I'm facing a situation where either I've done some someone wrong or I felt like betrayed, I felt hurt.
Would I want to be forgiven if I've done the same thing?
Can I understand why someone would have acted in that way?
How my own actions may have created the situation that's forced them to feel like the only option is to just kind of borrow in deeper to kind of end up hurting someone?
Radical responsibility, it also involves self forgiveness.
Recognising how your own mistakes are something that can be forgiven because you can take responsibility for your actions, but also allow yourself to see what's caused them.
I think radical responsibility is also a skill that helps propel a forgiving attitude, but also one of removal.
If a person has wronged you, radical responsibility allows you to forgive them, but also recognise it's your responsibility to put things in place, to put boundaries in place, strategies in place to ensure that you have the distance you need, or it never happens again, or you're prepared with the consequences
if it does, because it's your responsibility, only yours to ensure that you get the best outcome in your life.
Radical responsibility is kind of one skill within a whole skill toolkit that can assist us in forgiving others as well as ourselves.
It's just one step, and there are a bunch of others that have been included that are equally as important and really, really promoted in psychology at large, not just in the area of forgiveness.
So the first one includes acceptance.
When someone has done you wrong, acceptance is not about defeat or resignation, it's about accepting what has happened.
After all, while change is inevitable, suffering is the result of our resistance to it.
It's the result of us not accepting another person's behaviour, trying to excuse it, trying to create explanation, and acceptance kind of shifts the balance.
Your view of what is happening alters.
You separate the pain that is inevitable from the suffering that is optional.
Let me say that again.
You separate the pain that is inevitable from the suffering that is optional.
Pain and suffering are so different.
Pain is this instantaneous, spontaneous emotional reaction, but suffering is when you hold onto it.
And to forgive, you must accept the past.
That is not to say you like it or that you, you know, it was within your power to stop it, that you could have done something, but it's happened, and it can't be undone, but the suffering that you might feel afterwards is completely optional.
So the second kind of skill or step is emotional regulation, and emotional regulation helps you manage your emotions and avoid hijacking your amygdala.
So that's the part of the brain responsible for initiating your flight or fight or flee, I guess, reaction.
So research has shown that you cannot, you cannot suppress negative emotions.
I'm sure we've all tried that.
You've had a negative thought.
You tried to just like shake it out of your brain or do something that distracts you, but it's always going to come back stronger.
And it appears that you have, based on your behavior, you know, your, your limbic system kind of tells a different story and remains highly active.
So like I said, even if you try, you can't really avoid feeling negative emotions.
Instead, it's kind of better to become aware of your emotions and recognize and label them and interrupt and calm your response.
You know, if you're saying, I feel tense, my heart is beating faster, I'm scared.
Naming emotions provides space and emotional regulation helps you identify and learn from your feelings.
And this is really important for forgiveness, where you need to be aware of the hurt, anger and grief you may be facing to accept it and to kind of move forward with grace and give yourself the peace that comes with forgiving and letting go.
The third kind of skill is shifting perspectives.
So shifting perspectives can help you stand back and observe your thoughts, observe your feelings and your bodily sensations.
And in that way, you kind of cease to be a slave to a selfish narrative, one that is trying to undermine you.
An awareness of the sensation is very different from experiencing it, and it can provide the psychological distancing needed to move forward.
So psychological distancing, this is a really important concept when we're talking about forgiveness.
It's about being able to view your emotional reactions, view your pain, but not be too attached to it, not feel comfortable in it, which sometimes happens after a while.
And it's the saying, you know, observing anger is not the same as being angry.
There's a really great kind of strategy around that.
It's always talked about in psychology.
I'm sure if you have a therapist, they've suggested this, but it's called mindfulness, and it can kind of provide a practical path to shifting your perspective and seeing that your experiences do not define who you are.
I think mindfulness kind of has a bad rap because it's always kind of talked about in psychology and circles of psychological thought.
But it's really useful if you can sit back and observe your thoughts kind of floating through your head and not react to them, you'll find that you're a lot more prepared to deal with situations when those emotions are surprising.
Okay, the next skill in the path and the journey to forgiveness is empathy and compassion.
I know it sounds so fucking bullshit, so wishy -washy, but empathy and compassion really helps you feel what another is experiencing and can be incredibly helpful on a path to forgiveness.
If you can recognize why someone chose to act the way they did, it's really enlightening.
And it really helps you maybe, yeah, see things from their perspective, definitely.
But also, like I said, with the radical responsibility things, it allows you to recognize how you could have made the same mistake.
And while empathy is powerful at understanding the pain of another, compassion encourages you to take action needed to reduce that suffering.
You know, they kind of they work in tandem looking at someone, understanding their thoughts, their behavior, trying to put yourself in their shoes, maybe even thinking about their guilt.
That is really, really important.
And the final skill is, of course, radical responsibility, accepting your own role and moving forward.
But of course, it's not always that simple, and it's not just about skills, although they're important because I spent like five minutes talking about them.
There's also some proven steps to help along the process of forgiveness.
And we'll talk about why it's important that you do so for your health later on.
Although there are like a variety of definitions of forgiveness, research has suggested that they all kind of have three common components.
Firstly, gaining a more balanced view of the offender and the event.
Secondly, decreasing negative feelings towards the offender and potentially increasing compassion.
And finally, giving up the right or the feeling that you have a right to punish the offender further or to demand restitution.
That is such a big component.
Forgiveness, I think, doesn't just involve being or accepting what's happened.
It involves not needing to retaliate.
It involves being free of the need to hurt someone the same way that they have hurt you, which is such a common reaction.
When you hate them, when you're angry, wanting to just cause them the same pain that they've caused you, you need to let that go, because that becomes a very comfortable feeling to live in.
A feeling of anger is very, very easy because it feels good, it's natural, but is it really going to give you the best outcome?
Probably not. Simple steps.
Those three steps, really, when you say it like that.
But I don't think it is that simple.
You know, three simple steps makes it seem like that.
But we know, we all know, anyone who has forgiven someone knows it's so much more consuming than that, so much more consuming than just being like, oh yes, I give up my right to present them.
But when painful experiences do hit, sometimes we do need immediate strategies if you're feeling like that vengeance, I guess.
And one I find really useful is called positive emotion refocusing technique.
So P -A -E -R -T, positive emotion refocusing technique.
But I don't know why I said it like so.
Wow. So enthusiastically, but curtly.
Anyhow, this technique can help in avoiding long term pain by refocusing you in the moment, as the name kind of suggests, when we do feel overwhelmed by another person's actions or anger at ourselves or that person.
So P -E -R -T can be performed in less than a minute and pretty discreetly and it helps you kind of return to a state of calm.
Importantly, it also helps you restore control and prepare yourself to make useful decisions.
You know, don't act rashly when someone is hurt.
You don't send angry messages.
Don't try and undercut them or sabotage their relationships or something that's important to them.
It just makes yourself the villain.
So the way that you can kind of perform P -E -R -T when you're feeling like just overwhelmed by those feelings of just like aggression and anger, you find like a comfortable place to sit and attend to each inhalation and exhalation.
Breathing, essentially.
On the third breath, focus on someone you love.
Breathe gently. Maintain focus.
It's experiencing that emotion of love deeply and wish on them.
Every positive thing that you could possibly wish on.
Maybe this is the person that has hurt you.
If there's someone that was once close to you, remember why you loved them.
Remember why you cared about them and wish good things upon them.
Not for yourself but for them so that maybe they don't hurt others but maybe they're able to kind of push through the bad decisions they've made.
Or, yeah, forgiving them.
Realizing why they would have done that.
Maybe the guilt they're also feeling.
And ask yourself what you can do to overcome the difficulty you're experiencing in the present.
Maybe you've seen them.
Maybe you've received a message from them.
Maybe someone's mentioned them.
Just wish love upon them.
And I know it sounds so almost like Christian.
I know that sounds weird but it sounds very like religious.
To wish love upon thy enemy.
But I've done it before.
It really works. It really works to shift your mind frame.
And it's kind of nice to think that if you were in the position that they're in, maybe the person you've hurt would be doing the same thing.
The same way that you would feel you deserve forgiveness.
Give them that, give them that grace.
Throughout all of these skills and strategies though, psychology tells us that forgiveness is a process like all other things and you cannot change your perspective or attitude towards someone overnight.
And whilst the duration and difficulty will vary significantly, it can be equally applied to all levels of pain.
Whether it's the result of someone being rude to us in a store.
Maybe a life cut short or a partner cheating.
A friend lying to you, yes they're all going to involve a certain level of pain.
And it's important to realise that with time kind of heals most things.
And both research and experience, I guess, have suggested that one roadblock people face with forgiveness is the idea of being seen as weak and saying that what the offender did is excusable.
But let's re -evaluate the definitions of forgiveness that we've kind of discussed.
In many ways, I think it takes more strength to forgive.
Staying angry and bitter is easy.
It's so easy because it feels good and it's comfortable.
And we can accommodate and get used to our angry feelings because they feel natural.
But it takes a lot more work to forgive someone.
It's not a natural instinct to move on.
It's not a natural instinct to see someone for their mistakes, accept their mistakes and forgive them for those.
So to suggest, I guess, and for you to personally suggest in your own mind that forgiveness equals weakness, I think is really false.
Forgiveness is pretty powerful.
It's the harder path to choose.
Now for some of the benefits, I think throughout this I've kind of talked about why it's so good for your health, why you need to forgive people, why it's the best philosophy.
I think a lot of people would say, well, why do I need to do that?
Why do I need to do that?
Anger is just as the valid emotion as peace.
It's okay to feel angry.
Everyone's always saying that.
It's okay to feel pain.
Like all those emotions are equally as valid and important in how we operate as psychological beings, as beings with a consciousness.
But for giving people, when it's, I guess, viable, has so many more benefits than anger.
It has so many benefits psychologically.
And I guess that's because anger is an emotion that inherently and innately heightens a lot of our reactions, heightens a lot of our physical states, and it puts pressure on your body.
You can feel your anger.
You can feel your pain.
But when you have that kind of philosophy and that state of forgiveness, you can feel that peace as well.
You can feel that your heart isn't working as hard.
Your mind isn't working as hard.
Your body isn't working as hard to push through those feelings of wanting vengeance.
So there's this really cool professor, his name's Dr.
Frederick Luskin. He's the director of the Stanford University Forgiveness Project.
The Forgiveness Project, I came across it maybe like five years ago, I think even when I was in high school.
And it's a really cool initiative.
So it started by this professor, and it gets people to share stories of forgiveness in order to kind of build hope, empathy, understanding, and self -forgiveness as well, not just forgiveness for others, which we typically think of.
And they're really, really interesting stories.
There's one about this woman who forgives this man who basically chopped off her limb during the Rwandan genocide, kind of puts things into perspective if she can forgive him for mutilating her, acting in such violence.
I think we can forgive our neighbor for letting their dog shit on our lawn or something.
So for one of his studies, this professor, he recruited students between 18 and 30 who wished to attend forgiveness training to resolve personal issues.
Good on them. Very proud.
So he split them into groups, and he interviewed them before and after the training.
And results confirmed really positively that forgiveness training helps people feel significantly less hurt, less stress.
It helps them learn techniques for forgiving specific and more general resentment.
And it also helps them release pain, release tension in their body, have more positive interpersonal relationships.
And overall, the findings really suggested that learning to forgive improves psychological as well as physical wellness.
And it offers protection against future upsets.
It allows you to feel less hurt the next time someone does you wrong, put more healthy boundaries in place to maybe ensure that doesn't happen again.
And it leads you to become emotionally stronger.
It leads you to experience greater optimism, greater confidence.
And I just think that sounds like a much better alternative than stewing in a pretty ugly emotion, stewing in stress and tension and vitriol.
Psychology also says and has shown time and time again that when people report a philosophy of forgiveness or higher levels of forgiveness, they also tended to report better health habits and decreased depression, anxiety and anger levels.
Even in betrayed couples, so maybe couples where there's been cheating or something awful, greater levels of forgiveness were associated with more satisfied relationships, a stronger co -parenting alliance and a child's perceptions of parenting function.
So it's better for your kids.
Pass on those emotionally strong behaviours and you kind of see healthy generational patterns and habits forming.
Physiologically higher levels of forgiveness were associated with lower white blood cell count, lower blood pressure and white blood cells are an integral part of fighting diseases and infections.
So obviously this makes sense because our psychological health is so integral to our health overall.
But I still think that like the exact science is hard to pin down why forgiving people means you have more white blood cells, which means you're better able to fight disease.
I guess it's showing how our health is so holistic.
It's not just about how much you exercise or how much mindfulness you do.
It's all involved. It's all related.
And I just think together these results highlight the importance of forgiveness.
I know I sound like such a broken record, but it's not for the other person.
It's for you. All those benefits are showing it's for you.
You're the one who has more white blood cells.
Thank you very much.
So don't allow your mind and your body, I guess, to go through another day of feeling vengeful and angry.
You're the one who has to kind of hold that burden at the end of the day.
Anyhow, like I said, broken record.
We can talk about it all that we want, but I feel like we all know the best outcome.
Or at least I seem to know.
I seem to know what my personal philosophy is.
If it's not your philosophy, I totally understand.
And I also know there are so many instances where it's just not viable.
You can't forgive someone for some terrible wrongdoing and you shouldn't have to either.
But I think if we see it as not for them, but for you, we kind of shift our perspectives and see life kind of in a better way.
You can forgive people for anything really, if you're willing to, if you're able to.
And it really helps you.
It doesn't help that other person.
They don't get to know.
You don't have to tell them that you've forgiven them.
Just do it for you, for you personally.
Such an important thing as well for our twenties, just because there's going to be so many instances in which people do hurt us.
And it's kind of the first experience where it's a bit more complicated than just the schoolyard antics.
It's a lot more nuanced.
There's so many different aspects to it.
So being able to adopt that philosophy really does propel us into being better humans for the long run, better humans as we age.
Thanks for listening to this episode.
This was a suggestion by someone on Instagram.
So thanks for engaging with the podcast and other platforms.
If you want to follow us on Facebook, on Instagram, wherever, it's called 20 psychology podcast.
Also, Spotify and Apple now allow you to leave reviews of podcasts.
Wow. Crazy. And a review sharing your feedback is probably the best and easiest way to help independent podcasts like myself, who are doing this all on our own, just out of the passion in our hearts.
It really helps us grow.
And you know, every time I get like a new listener or a new follower on Instagram or on the podcast and you subscribe, it really makes me really happy.
So consider it a new year's gift if you're willing to do it.
It literally takes a second.
And if you've gotten something useful out of this podcast, I would, of course, really appreciate it.
Also, another episode coming next week, actually two episodes.
I've got Kate on, I've got Erin on, and Erin's boyfriend, Jack and the psychology of people pleasing a really good way to start your new year.
So thanks all for the support this year, my first year in the podcast universe, and it's been amazing.
So I love you all. And thank you for listening this far if you made it.
Have a wonderful, wonderful day.
This year, I've been really rethinking my relationship with alcohol.
And so I decided to commit to dry January to really kickstart 2025 and just test myself.
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I'm John Stewart and the best news team for today's biggest headlines, exclusive extended interviews and more.
Now this is the second term we can all get by.
Listen to The Daily Show, ears edition on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Do you want to see into the future?
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Do you want to experience the frontiers of what makes us human?
On Tech Stuff, we travel from the minds of Congo to the surface of Mars, from conversations with Nobel Prize winners to the depths of TikTok, to ask burning questions about technology, from high tech to low culture and everywhere in between.
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