Hello and welcome back to the psychology of your 20s the podcast where we discuss the big life changes and transitions of our 20s and what they mean for our psychology.
So today it's a kind of a different episode.
I've got some special guests joining me shortly Meg and Jack some nearest and dearest friends of mine.
What are you gonna do a slightly different episode today?
It's a Loveline episode.
We asked you to send in your love queries, conundrums, problems, questions with our combined wisdom.
We decided to answer some of them.
So I really hope you enjoy listening to us spill some wisdom into your headphones or speakers or however you're listening.
Also don't forget to subscribe if you're listening right now so you know when new episodes get posted and a really great way to help this podcast grow is to leave us a review on Apple podcasts or Spotify.
It really helps the podcast grow.
So if you feel cool to leave a review I might obviously feel very grateful.
Being said enjoy the if you want us to like this Meg is here!
Meg do not talk through some big life changes and trends on the podcast about how you feel.
I'm a bit nervous I'm a bit nervous but I feel like I'm with two podcast experts now and I really enjoyed your episode.
So I'm glad to join the mix.
Yeah we've been wanting to do this for a while I think this is a much better idea than the ideas that we had.
Yeah. Because it's like we get to answer people's questions.
Yeah. I feel like you two are very good bestellas of wisdom.
Oh thank you. It's a little bit more guided too.
I have clearer expectations.
Yeah yeah so basically today's episode is a love line episode where and I had to kind of explain this to you guys what this was.
So basically I posted on a few platforms and was like send in your love queries and conundrums and then us three 20 year olds people in our 20 is going to provide you expert advice.
So if you did send something in like please keep your expectations low because we're not qualified.
We're not experts. We're not experts.
But who is in life?
That's really wise.
Meg maybe. Excessive societal pressure to kind of conform to a particular beauty stand in and a particular body type.
There is so much content to cover.
I'm really excited to explore some of the findings and intricacies around this topic.
I think as our society has become more self -aware of the dangerous impact.
What Straight Man like that doesn't have a podcast.
True. Yeah and here I am.
I'm trying to diversify this.
Yeah no. Break it up.
Break it up. It's good.
So basically people send in their love things that are going on in their love lives and we like discuss it and try and provide like explanations and advice.
And we got quite a few responses.
We got like 13 14 people and we had a little read of them already.
Now it's time to get into it.
Sounds good. What's your love wisdom to start off with.
Should we all go around and say love.
I don't have much love wisdom.
Well you gotta riff riff it off.
Okay riff. Yeah. This would be about that.
My favorite piece of love wisdom is live love love.
Oh that's good. Yes that's a good one.
Maybe that could be.
I thought this was a serious yeah yeah yeah.
Live love love. That's fantastic.
It is serious Josh.
Yeah that is. Yeah.
I'm excited to talk about it and also to kind of shed a light on some of the consequences that we don't always know that can be incredibly severe over our mental well -being and our physical health.
In particular we are going to talk about basically the psychology behind.
Nice. So we're getting the tattoos.
I'll get it on our wrists or like our fingers.
We all come together and it joins up.
I actually don't think this is a bad idea.
Oh yeah yeah. Let's do it with pencil first.
Love. We can always change our mind.
They give me allergic reactions though.
I can't even give it a temporary tattoo.
Maybe that's your love advice.
Oh that's good. That's good.
Oh my goodness. Commitment.
That's a good start.
There we go. Well mine's eat pray love.
Oh good good good. I watched that movie in India when I was finding myself.
You watched eat pray love the version with what's.
Julie Roberts. It was fantastic.
The pray part was in India and it was really cool.
Oh they were praying in India.
And I was in the ashram when I saw it.
Was it realistic? Yeah it was really realistic.
Oh that's nice. I had no idea.
Anyway it was quite cool.
A month's time so you can always come back to it when you feel more prepared.
But if this is something that is going to trigger you maybe just sit this one out for a little while.
If anything in this episode.
Love. Love you too.
That's my love advice.
Love you too. Because I feel like that's what you oh.
Nice try buddy. I know I'm crying.
What's that name. Maybe you know when you start a sentence.
When you. When you.
When you. Yeah. Love you too.
Love you too. No I mean love you too.
It's like reciprocal makes us like don't be temporary.
Mine's reciprocal. Jax's that he found himself in India and that's why he doesn't need love.
Exactly. Yeah I'm so happy.
Yeah no I'm just pretty spiritual just getting in touch with myself right now.
Yeah I'm just working on myself.
Yeah that was what I said literally Meg before you came in and I was like to Jack I was like yeah this year has been fun but I really need some time by myself.
Embrace our bodies despite this pressure to kind of cater towards societal expectations about how we should look.
So let us get into it and let us begin the discussion.
I'm so excited. Thank you.
I was gonna say you should go and love yourself and I think that's yeah.
That's a good that's good yeah.
I don't know about that one.
Justin Bieber it doesn't fit in with me.
Yeah. I'm a Taylor Swift stan.
Okay of course. What's your quote from Taylor Oh my god so much.
Oh my god. Recent lyric that I've been obsessed with too.
I'm sorry if you're listening to this and you have no interest in this but one of them is um you kept me like a secret but I kept you like an oath and that just like oh that's really sad.
And just between us did the love affair mean you too.
That's pretty cool.
Yeah very tragic but not really a happy love.
It's the best bit the juiciest bit.
Yeah right. But anyhow those are my favorite lyrics from the new version of all too well Taylor Swift version.
Jake. Okay we already got into Taylor Swift and we're six minutes in.
Can we talk about how Jake Gyllenhaal is the most hated man in America in the world.
You can. What love advice would you give Jake Gyllenhaal right now?
Um I know you'd be having a tough time if he's not in a relationship.
Like imagine imagine getting outed like that.
Yeah. For being for doing what he did.
Stop finding your girlfriends at high schools.
Yeah. Yeah that's a good one.
That's a good one. I feel that's a good one for everyone that isn't in high school.
Yeah just across the board.
Yeah Jake Gyllenhaal in particular but also all human beings.
Yeah unless you are also in high school.
In which case go for your life.
Yeah in which case don't date someone who's not in high school.
Yeah yeah yeah. The Venn diagram.
There's no overlap.
Just two circles. It's true yeah that's funny.
It's true. Yeah that was a really good that was really solid advice.
Thank you. My advice would be um show up at your girlfriend's 21st birthday party.
Yeah. When you said that you were gonna go.
Yeah just yeah standards standard standard stuff isn't it?
Yeah yeah 21st is coming up guys so if my if my future boyfriend is listening.
Yeah. Be there. Listen up or I'll write a hate album about you.
Yeah it was not a hate album.
It was a hot. It was a hot album.
That was so I literally looked me in the eye just then I was like it was not a hate album.
Well if your boyfriend doesn't show up I'll do like a full rendition of the moment I knew for you.
Yeah he won't show up to her 21st birthday.
Because of its success.
One of us show up. Oh we will.
Because I don't want to deal with the drugs going through us.
Yeah so do we want to put the questions Morphe sent to us so how lovely people.
I don't know. Yes sorry.
We'll have what we use.
I have 1 % leave. I'm also not that much use.
Hold on. Max's phone is literally right behind him.
Yeah sorry. When he says he doesn't.
Well I yeah I didn't want to because I'm doing a podcast I wanted to be in the zone so I didn't get distracted by messages so put it behind me.
Oh that's really smart.
Yeah but now. But no we can use mine.
So okay just a quick thing so I screenshotted all of them and they're all anonymous because I had a feeling that like we obviously know some of the same people.
Yeah yeah yeah. And like some of them would have been submitting and we would have known.
Yeah absolutely. So go on Meg.
Meg gets to choose the first one.
I actually I know this one is kind of a joke but the um the question the guy I'm dating is actually not S question mark.
Is this for real? There's lots of capital.
It promotes that our worth is tied to our physical appearance not how we treat others not what we contribute to the world not the people we love or our intelligence or our creativity you know the things that truly matter it wants us to view our worth by the shape.
Actually nothing bad in the situation but you've created like you are so unwilling to believe that there is anything good that you're gonna manifest this like weird bad situation that doesn't actually exist and I've seen so many people do it now and I think it's like such a process to actually be like okay well
maybe this person is just nice and we can accept that at face value.
Yeah absolutely. It's like you become comfortable with the idea of like them of people not treating you well and then when they don't treat you well you're like that actually gives me anxiety.
Yeah because this is not what I've been accustomed to.
Yeah. So it's like really strange.
Yeah yeah yeah or there's a I think that and there can sometimes be a suspicion about it when past experiences have been bad.
Definitely and I think that almost leads to you not being a nice person like I would say when you're when you're expecting the worst of you.
Are they really going to remember what size of clothes I wear?
I don't think so and I think that it seems in the most important moments like at birth at death when we're surrounded by people we love.
You're going to have like shit relationships with people who are going to treat you badly.
Yeah. And I think that what happens is when you meet someone who's actually nice it's like you have to unlearn all the patterns that allowed you to kind of like survive.
Totally. That time in which you were like oh this is what I deserve.
Yeah and it's like almost adjusting your entire self -concept to this new standard of like how you should be treated.
Yeah. And it's like so almost like uncomfortable because it also means that you have to sit back and be like oh my god that whole time I was being treated really badly actually probably didn't deserve that but I tolerated it.
Yeah. And it's like having to sit back with yourself and be like wow that can be like a really uncomfortable moment.
Yeah definitely. Which I think is to maybe create the anxiety around it.
Yeah. I think it'd been quite lucky I don't think I've had any relationships where I've been treated badly.
Do you think it's more of a gendered thing or?
Maybe but I also I.
Of a focus that is very similar to that of diet culture.
It's focused on your weight, it's focused on your body shape, on your food intake and it can.
I have that sort of expectation of people who I care about don't care about me or and it can just be like I honestly think like I mean I am not a psychologist Joanna you have to.
Because I definitely yeah.
I'll apply everything.
You know like people who are born with particular sort of propensities or I don't know like anxiety around their social relationships or whatever like the actually accepting okay well this is a person who I care about and they're actually just nice and there's nothing inherently like cooked about them
or something that I have to worry about and just like accepting that could actually be a really big thing and I think if you don't then you're just going to be like creating a different relationship in your head to the one that actually exists.
Yeah it's quite yeah like you can't change someone else's behaviour but you can change your like expectations.
Yeah and it could mean improving your expectations and being like well actually this is like this new level yeah it is important.
Yeah yeah yeah. And there are nice guys out there as well.
There are yeah. And nice women and nice not bad.
But that's not always the case and it appears so often in the media.
Like oh like this is what I deserve.
Yeah yeah. Really shocking because it's and it also can leave you like I think a lot of times people have like we were saying this tendency to like self -sabotage.
Yeah. And be like I actually don't deserve this like this must be a mistake.
Yeah yeah or you're lying or this can't be real so I'm looking for the thing that's wrong about this because there must be one.
And I don't think that always has to be the case or even if it is I don't think it's like even if it ends up that that person wasn't very nice two years down the track.
I don't think you can go that whole two years waiting for that moment to arrive.
Yeah or like for something to switch.
Yeah I'm often in that state where I'm like well what's next like once it's gonna show up and sometimes you like push them a little bit to be like I'm sick of waiting like just show me your bad side now so I can get over it and decide and then we can move on.
Yeah yeah kind of sad almost.
Not ideal but whoever that person was obviously I know who it was but I'm glad that you're happy in your relationship.
Yes yeah and also your nice doesn't have to be everybody else's nice I think is the thing and this is like a whole other thing but I think there's a tendency especially in like a place like Canberra where everyone kind of knows each other and it's a very insular sort of community of 20 -something year
olds who are like all very connected to be like okay well this person was really like I really hated them and they're really awful to me and blah blah blah it just didn't work out but that person might you might have been awful for each other and that's like it doesn't necessarily mean it will be the same
thing for another person.
And this whole sort of thing of like oh they were really awful so like you know I can't be with them because they must not be nice but it's people have different standards and different like yeah metrics.
And maybe they like that new person a bit more and are like willing to change their behavior.
Yeah yeah. But I remember like I don't know if you said this to me or maybe we said it in like a discussion but it's like no one I what maybe some I think some people are but in general people aren't inherently toxic or bad they just have friction with each other.
Yeah definitely. And it's like you know the wrong person for you might act like the perfectly right person for someone else.
Yeah definitely. Just like huge.
Anyhow. Congratulations to this person.
Yeah yeah. I'm so proud of you.
Yeah very exciting.
Very exciting. Um okay.
This is nice one actually.
My culture kind of keeps its way in my mind is egg photos and edited it does.
I'm not sure we've all tried done this once or just I have done this.
I should this person.
You don't know what x shit.
You know the thing.
I'm sorry that might be a conestral.
You don't fucking. I think that's best.
I completely agree.
I think I know it depends what I want to get out of the next phase you know of the dynamic between you two.
I think it's a really really good way to make sure things are awkward between you two.
Yeah. And a good way to even have a friendship with them if you want that.
Like I'm good friends with one of my exes from high school and I'm very happy for that friendship.
And I'm glad that we did have that closure chat which happened quite a while after actually.
Um so it depends. Quite a while after being the fact that you guys probably had already moved on.
Yeah. Both of you. Yeah.
Yeah. It was oh yeah it was like a month two months or something.
Oh yeah that's nice.
Yeah yeah. Um so yeah no it depends on what kind of relationship you want to have with them.
But then also it's important I think if you if the relationship was nasty and you were and as people and children are accessing social media earlier and earlier in age it's no wonder that by the time we kind of reach our adolescents in our teenage years almost I think it's like six in ten people report
some form of disordered eating.
This is why it works and this is why it's so impactful.
Like you're never human behavior is entirely irrational.
There's like absolutely no explanation and coherent narrative that's going to explain why your relationship ended.
Yeah. And there's a point where it can get really unhealthy as well.
Yeah. When you like want to ask questions that aren't there and it can just be bad for you.
Yeah I had that I was like you know when you're really hurt it makes sense that you're like I need an answer I need an answer.
But they're never going to give you an answer and it just can really delay.
We'll never give you one that's satisfying.
Yeah yeah never want you you know you've already decided what you wanted to hear and they're never going to say that.
So I would say don't don't have the closure chat.
Just be like I don't think it's the right time for us.
Give her some chance to like actually heal.
And it's yeah it sounds like by the fact that this person is asking the question they probably don't feel like they want to have the chat.
Yeah well the whole thing is an idealized norm through repetition of you know images and trends and video content that all promotes the same idea to be thinner as to be better.
And this becomes an idealized norm.
It's been repeated.
It feels that they have.
Yeah. And then that's where the issues stem from.
I think if you're both in the same place about the situation I think if you're both coming from an equal place of you know I'm a little bit hurt but I'd like to have this conversation because I'd like to build a friendship with you or because I'd like to whatever.
I think that's fine right?
But if it's like you know that you're going to walk into that conversation and be interrogated for answers that you can't give.
Yeah well then that's weird.
Yeah but I think if you did want to do it I think it would then be really important to set boundaries.
Like really clear expectations of this is what I want to get out of this.
What do you want to get out of this?
So that way there's like an end to those expectations.
Which is really clinical and like gross.
But I think it's like it's one of those things where it's sort of like okay I'm going to have this conversation which is going to be difficult for me.
My favorite one is like you book somewhere to go afterwards.
So like if you're going to be having this difficult conversation you're like I've gotta be somewhere out online.
So in that way they're kind of punished and almost forced to fall back in line to cater towards being dinner.
This is how to start what you want to cover in that time which is really weird.
It's like an agenda for a work meeting.
But if you set out what you want to cover and you have to be somewhere it can't drag on or get weird or like oh we didn't finish so we have to catch up again.
It's like no I have an hour.
Yeah that's so smart.
That's actually such good solid advice.
Thanks. I think the other issue with like closure chats is that often it can mean that that person is actually looking for you to be their emotional support through the breakup.
Because if they're looking to you for the closure chat yeah it might just be that they really do need an answer.
You've cheated on them or if something if you've done it out of the blue perhaps you do probably owe them an explanation if you've heard about this person.
But it's also like I need to have this closure chat not because I need answers but because I actually need you to provide me with some emotional support.
Yeah because it's like you've gone from dating this person then being that you're everything to going through something that is really hard that naturally you would actually lean on that person for.
Yeah and so like I definitely I did this in my I felt my last relationship where I was like oh my god I'm so hurt but the only person I want to talk about it with is you.
The important values in our culture we often confuse it with together and it's like well now like the closure chat has just like meant that we never really truly like moved on or stopped communicating.
Yeah because if someone like ran over you with a car or something and you end up in hospital right very extreme example but you wouldn't go to them and be like can you sit with me in hospital like you know I just I just need you there like it makes no sense yeah it's like if someone has actively really
hurt you why like why is it logical for you to be like why do you expect them to have the answer they're the ones who hurt you.
Yeah but for the person who answers ask this question I'd say probably don't do it or if you do take Meg's advice set clear expectation and have someone to go.
Book a spa day. Yeah a good mutual meeting place a spa day did you say?
No not with the person like afterwards.
Yeah yeah yeah. You actually get couples massage that's why you talk about it.
I was gonna say yeah a neutral meeting place is good like coffee coffee place is fantastic.
Yeah because that is weird if they cry.
Yeah yeah. You guys are brutal like this.
What does she need some tears?
I don't know can I ask can I ask the next question?
Yeah yeah do it do it do it.
Wait from your brain or from the from the thing?
I don't go for it. Okay like if you can ask one as well if you.
No yeah we all can.
Oh he's a really good one okay in your ex oh no I feel like I want to do that one later okay I'm in a situation with this guy who won't commit what should I do I think I love him.
Oh I have no advice of that on this.
Okay hold on can you can you read it again?
Yeah let me find it.
I'm in a situation with this guy who won't commit.
Yeah. What should I do I think I love him.
Red flag dump him. Yeah I think.
Oh that's that's I'm kidding I'm kidding.
Okay no that's so sad.
I'm sorry I have been in so many situationships.
I feel like. See yeah I think you're the only one oh maybe you were a little bit.
You've been in a situation shift?
You know what this is?
Yeah yeah what do you mean?
Yeah I know what a situation shift is yeah.
It's like you're not in a relationship but you're doing.
No a few small ones yeah but nothing crazy but it's yeah it's it's it's it's really tough because I think it depends on what the parameters are and I think the parameters are almost always um hey not looking to get into a relationship.
I don't want to commit um but I enjoy spending time with you.
Market it as wellness and profit it as fitness and lifestyle friendly.
And that it can become consuming.
And it like sustains really it's promoting conformity it's a company it's promoting an industry that wants to make much of our insights.
You want to do this and it's let's just talk.
I just oh yuck. Yeah no that's a good point that's a good point I think um yeah I think I think it's important to like I guess be open with how you feel but then not to pressure them into anything.
Yeah because the boundaries are probably already set.
Just good. Yeah that being said it sounds like they've probably already talked about this and maybe have been shut down which.
Well the other thing which I always see come up is people so like what kind of what you were saying Gem about like someone like they say they don't want a relationship but then they kind of indicate that they do and then they don't and then they do and then they don't and then so you get into this situation where you're
like oh well they will because they said that they might or they said they could and it's just like sort of and again it builds shaky foundations.
Literally just a cluster of ingredients and nutrients it's in no way associated with being bad or being evil or needing to be shunned or not consumed.
Here's the thing all foods are good foods like they don't have a moral label they all have their benefits.
Yes you know maybe.
As terrible as it will be you have to get out of that because otherwise you'll be you're trapped in a situation where you're intimate with someone that you love that you know doesn't love you back.
I feel really bad for this but obviously I know who this person is but I feel because I'm not trying to be like I feel really bad for you because I feel like that's weird but like I think the other important thing to realize is that like if they wanted to they would.
If they wanted to be in a relationship with you they would be in a relationship with you and it has absolutely nothing to do with you.
Yeah it's totally if they aren't ready and to be honest they're gonna fucking probably regret it like if you have this like very beautiful feeling for them that is like really precious and pure and you have to see the best parts of someone else to feel that way and they're saying no take that and give
it to someone who really deserves it.
Is this societal obsession with calorie intake?
I think that's something we can all admit we have done.
I certainly have. Where you have weighed up two options based on how many calories they have.
A person that you'll be able to you know share that love with until you move on from this person who clearly doesn't want that right now.
And it ends up hurting you.
Yeah totally. I was about to say it's sort of like you have to do some like damage control for yourself and like maybe if you're a person who just gets over those kinds of things really quickly and just moves on with their lives okay fair like full steam ahead like do whatever you want like live your
life. Get some good creative story inspiration.
Yeah but I think like you have to sort of be like okay well this person is flip -flopping even if they do decide that they do want a relationship somewhere down the track.
This whole period where like you've been chasing them sets up this weird power dynamic in your relationship which is just going to persist for the duration of the relationship and you're just like setting yourself up for a crap situation regardless of whether it goes turns into a relationship or not and that's
just really sad. It actually contributes to that major symptom of diet culture which is an obsession about how our body looks and along with that an obsession with this is much better than that.
Yeah and it's although they might not have necessarily done anything wrong you deserve to be in a better situation.
Totally. That's so true and like I'm sorry that you're in that situation because I like know what that feels like and it really really sucks and you're just sitting there being like is this not enough and you are enough for the right person this person obviously isn't the right person.
Well they're not enough for you.
Your expectations are higher than what they want.
It's like the exact opposite is they're not meeting your expectations.
Yeah like you're actually the one yeah you're so right like it's not like it's not like oh my god like I'm not good enough for them it's like no like if they're not going to meet you and obviously it's not like they're a demon they're a devil they're a villain like if they've set up clear expectations
and somehow you've kind of lost your way a little bit it is kind of your responsibility to be like okay well they were really open with me about what they wanted.
If they were open with you and I think it's a different question if they were gaslighting and yes which I know you hate the word gaslighting.
I know but in this situation it kind of could lead to people with binge eating disorder finding higher calorie items to trigger guilt.
To a new question. I love it.
This is so fun. Yeah we liking it.
What's the next question?
The next one we could do.
Um okay we got okay here we go.
This is a friendship one.
Yeah. Oh spice it up.
I feel like I've lost a lot of friends and drifted from people during lockdown I feel like people hate me and don't want to be around me.
How do I make new friends?
Can I read it? Yeah.
Um so okay I think I think there's kind of it's feels like a two -parter.
It feels like that they're yeah you feel you feel very disconnected from your current friends and you feel like you've drifted from them and maybe you feel like you've done something to do that or partly responsible and then there's how do I make new friends?
Yeah. And I think Gem is one of the best people I know making new friends.
Wow big calls. So we got you covered.
Um well I think if you think that people hate you you probably shouldn't be around them.
Yeah well this is what I was going to say is like because I think I've had a similar experience with this where I sort of felt like I lost touch with a lot of people and tried to sort of rekindle those friendships and was like I feel like these people hate me and I think if you interrogate that feeling
a little bit more and you're like okay well maybe I actually they don't hate me maybe I'm insecure about this friendship because it doesn't feel quite right and I think sort of like interrogating that a little bit more and like sort of thinking about well why is it that I feel this way and like what what is communicating
that feeling to me and sometimes I found like I'm like you know I don't know like to my mom I'm sort of like oh someone so hates me and she's like why do you think that and I was like I don't know like I just feel like that today.
Sometimes I'm like oh like well actually I think that they don't like me because they said this thing that I just really hate or and then I'm like okay well I don't I don't want that friendship anymore because you know that whatever they're doing that makes me feel like I hate them is yeah.
I think yeah use it as a growth opportunity like clearly clearly you didn't value your friends enough and maybe your friends didn't value you enough to stay connected during lockdown.
One thing lockdown taught me was that I figured out who I really want to spend time with during lockdown and use it as an opportunity to be like well maybe I can have better friends.
That sounds kind of toxic but like better friends and let's make some new friends and develop new connections yeah and set your intentions really clearly with what you want out of your new friends and then go for it.
Yeah and also um like so this is a quote that like Sam, my friend Sam.
Friend of the show.
Friend of the show.
I love it. Friend of the show.
My beautiful friend Sam in Melbourne.
He has said to me before and it's kind of I've said on the podcast before like if you're not losing friends you're not growing.
Yeah. I do think that's really true because there was also that saying people in your life for a reason, a season, or a lifetime and I think that it's important to be like firstly it might not be that they hate you it might just be that you are a bit socially anxious because you haven't seen people
for a while and in that case it's always better just to be like what's up let's talk about it.
Yeah and like I never do this but I wish that I did so yeah there's my advice and if they like Meg was saying if they're giving you the eek or making you feel like you're not appreciated it's better to be like alone than to be in the company of people who make you feel lonely.
Yeah like true I really I think that is so important and sometimes you lose friends and sometimes you lose a lot of friends all at once and it just means you have so much more opportunity to put yourself in situations where you can make like I had this where I had like a mass exodus almost and then
I just was like this is like a really good sign that I need to like I've changed these people have changed in their own ways we haven't changed in the same direction it's time to find people who see this part of me now this new this new version of my life.
And I think I think it's like in your 20s you're friends with people who you either work with who you know from like high school and university yeah or who you have shared hobbies and experiences with or who you live with yeah and so I think it's getting getting into a shared experience or a shared
hobby is a fantastic way to do it.
So like find your hobby it's really you'll make some really good friends yeah I do I do theatre a bit I've made some fantastic friends through that and it's really really special even if you won't know them for your whole life you will know them for like a really interesting and fun set time yeah and it
makes you feel less lonely it makes you feel staying yeah yeah and would you would you say similar things yeah yeah definitely and I think it's like it's good once you start developing those separate circles of friends because it's also like you're not going to be stoked with every single one of your
friends at every single point in time oh yeah I I think I yeah you need some space to move around.
Making all friends in first year and I was a bit of I was a bit weird in first year I'm sure yeah I think um the other thing that I will say though is that um just because you've lost touch during lockdown doesn't inherently mean that you shouldn't be friends with those people anymore because I think
I've certainly done this like I like probably when I went home for lockdown last year I didn't talk to people for like months at the time and that wasn't a product of you know the fact that I didn't want to be friends with those people anymore it's sort of like there are some people who are really good
at texting and staying in touch and face timing and then there are people who that doesn't quite work for them or you know it feels you know I don't know and I think that's you know but you also should try and work on that I think is something that is the other thing is sort of being like okay well
I didn't talk to people for an extended period of time that's now I'm feeling crap about that so next time when this if you know there's lockdown again or you go on an overseas holiday you start a new job or yeah that's something to kind of push a little bit more and I would say that this time during lockdown
I've made a bit more of an effort and I think you sort of you go through it once and you're like oh well you know I could have done xyz better and you're like you know no there is these really are people they're friends that I didn't stay in touch with in lockdown who I really do want to stay in touch
with um and just reach out just be like yeah yeah and if they're good friends I'll understand right yeah and also I think that um people are going through their own shit yeah during lockdown during lockdown like I lost my granddad during lockdown and like had other things happen it was like it's not a reflection on the people
I didn't keep in touch with it's more of like I'm just overwhelmed yeah and it's like I just can't do the same like I don't have as much space and places to go to recharge yeah my house but mate you did do a order very seriously in a good way and then this lockdown you were like really good about it
yeah yeah I think it's sort of being like okay well calling people feels a little bit weird for me so I'm like okay well this time I could go and walk so people yeah I could we did facetime yeah yeah play games and like do like you know that sort of thing I found a lot more fun so I think it's sort
of yeah um it's a learning experience it's kind of cringe but yeah yeah we got another question here um it's actually actually a statement there's no question involved uh my boyfriend likes rock climbing more than me that's it um yeah that's it um I think I think honey you gotta be the paper I'm feeling
very advised sage um you gotta be the paper that beats the rocks I think you gotta you gotta step it up um oh is it bad no it's fine places this paper rock with him yeah and if you get paper he has to stop going yeah climbing yeah it's like you know what also it's good that your boyfriend has a hobby yeah
yeah it's good that he has a hobby and that it's an exercise oh true true because I play games as a hobby yeah that doesn't count that's in seven hours yeah and then we see you and it's like I'm like have you been crying and you're like no I've just been playing video games it it could be worse rock
climbing's a cool hobby yeah yeah and I also think men are really bad and just this is a broad generalization sweeping generalization yeah young men are really bad at like building healthy routines and healthy lifestyles and being like okay well when I sit and play video games for eight hours straight
that makes me feel kind of gross and like sorry I never I never feel good no no you don't you're quite good with like going to the gym yeah yeah and it's about like see your friends yeah yeah doing your theater and like you know it's going to work and having like a routine that gives you lots of space
to grow and do other things and keep stimulated and you know and so I feel like a hobby is good um yeah but if he likes rock climbing more than he likes you yeah you know relationships grow over time yeah maybe go rock climbing with him or at least just hang out with him at the rocks yeah do they I
mean you know who it is do they go rock climbing together I can't divulge personal information about this person okay but they don't so okay but I feel like I don't know maybe they don't also it's okay if you have two separate if you have separate lives that's really good yeah true it's actually yeah
yeah because you can use that as space to be like okay well I'm gonna go and climb rocks and things and think about my feelings yeah yeah and just decompress um and then yeah spend quality time together also rocks don't have a pulse yeah that's that's important that's a tattoo yeah I don't know yeah
rocks rocks don't have a pulse rocks don't have a pulse you have a pulse you have words write that on your wall yeah rocks don't have so let us your affirmation yeah rocks don't have a pulse I have a pulse so this is super niche but it also makes gifting really easy because oh yeah because give them
a rock yeah climb this fucker yeah no there's so much stuff to get around little gloves and things yeah yeah ropes I love I love the little pouches with the chalk in them yeah you guys obviously I will face gloves little shoes it's great gifting yeah protein bars for when they yeah after after the after the rocks
yeah or mid rock um there's so much to unpack here and I'm glad we have with mid rock all right there's jack you're moving through these questions I I mean yeah I don't know I just like what was that conclusion on that one oh yeah well I started with be the paper to the rock um but what are we ending
on yeah I feel like as long as he's not like sleeping on the rocks or like I don't know cancelling yeah oh yeah that would be bad is it I mean you know who wrote is it a genuine concern I think it is okay okay oh okay I think it's semi um okay well yeah as long as he's not it's not doing it no fooling
around with the rocks I think I think it should be right yeah I think it boundaries around the rocks about how much you can go rock climbing yeah and how much yeah and how much he should be climbing you instead yeah yeah well put um well yeah because you don't want to get into a stage where he's one
of those people that is sleeping with the rocks where they pitch hold the picture picture like Alex sky yeah all that okay I'm sorry you can't be much and that's just dangerous it's dangerous for you when he's doing that also if you think that he likes rocks more than he likes you you should watch that documentary
with that Alex Holland Hongland guy where he like he like has this beautiful girlfriend he's like I love you I want to start a family with you and he's like I want to summit the one of the tallest mountains in the world without using a harness sorry baby if I die yeah and he does it see that's a bit
much right yeah that would be a different story you don't want to get to that point where yeah he's one of those rock people yeah it's not like it I'm just gonna get those little rock things and frozen you know that's cute yeah that's what your babies will look like there's little rock things I know
I don't know like is his illegitimate children yeah and sorry sorry for calling you honey at the start I wasn't trying to be patronizing I just felt very sage don't worry baby yeah don't worry king thanks thanks James I got called king ironically on ironically the other day it was quite funny who did
that yeah just someone yeah it was my favorite thing to be doing I was telling one of my friends this the other day my favorite thing is to go on like instagram lives of like guys doing like who are like DJs and be like we love a short king yeah I saw it on tick tock and I started doing it yeah it's
hilarious I like using yeah superstar it's quite super star hey yeah champ hey legend or muscles is a classic one you get from from like from like your uncle's when you when you're playing rugby start playing rugby hey they're muscles yeah that was my experience yeah don't worry muscles you still got
it okay so our next question it's it's a really big one let's turn back here um sorry this anonymous um question asking human said um my girlfriend and I broke up but I miss her mum pretty sure mum misses me too yeah what do I assume that I think I think the starting point um I'm gonna recommend a song
called stacy's mom yeah oh my god yeah yeah I think it might be might be good text to to look at yeah a good there's some homework for you some reading yeah oh if you can't rebuild connections with her mom like say it you know yeah yeah you know that that's fine I would suggest setting your age range
higher on tinder yeah I think you'll meet plenty of new you have a lot of mummy figures to replace the old one I also think that like you know the girlfriend gets the mum in the breakup yeah you don't get it's her mum yeah yeah it's her mom yeah it is at the end of the day she didn't love you as much
as she loved her daughter so yeah at the end of the day it is it is her mum and uh that's that's fine but if you need the most energies yeah just because there's plenty of moms out there there's plenty of moms out there that you know yeah that have daughters you didn't go out with or have sons eating
go out with yeah and I think channel that hone into that yeah you don't need to stop projecting babe yeah you need to chill also does her mum miss you probably not yeah so maybe you need to I think yeah yeah well you can just find a new girlfriend who mothers you yeah that's true that's a hot tip that's
true that's true yeah yeah fine find a girlfriend with mother mother but dude I'm such a mothery I was gonna say we can't we can't say shit I'm the queen of I'm mother even the guys I'm not in a relationship with it's ridiculous I'm teaching someone how to fucking drive right now what was more mummy
energy than that that's very mummy energy yeah that exceeds my mom energy yeah I've never been that fatherly you never been from when you called the question ask a honey yeah that was your pink fatherly honey I've been told to be a good dad you'd be such a good dad I'd love to be a dad oh you'd be so much
fun yeah if I have kids you can be there like not their dad but no you'll be like the godfather okay godfather yeah well for any pod listeners who are looking who are missing their ex's dad you have oh here we go yeah feel free to yeah feel free to give advice or play lego uh I love with the kids yeah
I do I do like I just love playing with my little cousins and the kids they're so fun to hang out with um and I want to I'm keen to do all the kid things that I did when I was a kid yeah that's the only reason you wanna you want to really well like you introducing them to all this cool stuff like star
wars yeah how did I know you were gonna say star yeah and lego and like that man and stuff video games all the marvel movies I'm so keen that would be really fun Meg do you want little meggies yeah I think so Kevin I was gonna say megglings oh megglings oh that's so cute I love that my god imagine a tiny
leg running down this like an extra leg I think should be cute that's the most terrifying thing ever or like but I was like a kind of cute kid I I'm terrifying oh my god you were so terrifying running down chocolate all over the face with sticky hair no the computer picture's the funniest one you guys
oh my god I'm working every day I'm depressed it's like um it's like every day we're hustling it's about drive it's about power we stay hungry that was megg when she was a kid and oh my god I was like me organizing an entire like performance with tickets for me to sing I'm a Barbie girl and commissioning
like children in my classes did you did you do this because I I did like did you do little plays and performances yeah but I took it to the next level like I left my prep classroom and invited the whole school I made ticket that's the whole school to my performance of I'm a Barbie girl and then that's
cool how many people showed up like two classrooms full of kids and my prep teacher was like why are all these people here and I commissioned my entire class and they made all of the guys that I hated in my class dress up as photographers and pretend to be like my paparazzi and my mom came to pick me
up from prep and I think my teacher was like you have raised a psychopath like this child don't tell you for yeah you continue to use those in your daily life now because I feel like you would have done the same and maybe even you Gemma but I was having a conversation with my mom this week when I was up
in Sydney about when I used to put on little performances when I was a kid like I used to do little magic shows and I used to do little like act out little scenes from like like movies I liked yeah did you do that yeah so I would commission performances with my brother as well yeah and I love her commission yeah
because I did I would organize him um I think my parents were probably sick of them they were having so frequently but my dad also would record like songs of Hayden and I singing with all his like sound recording gear so we have Hayden and I singing love shack at like oh you know like five and three
or something stupid like that it's so funny because we do all of the parts it's like and it's on full like recording yeah baby yeah my favorite is that coming out at the 21st I would be surprised if you didn't is Angela singing she's listening yeah we'll have to coordinate with mom and dad Dino give
us the goods I want to see the love shack yeah 10 minute version yeah in the the bolt song yeah you don't get it tell us what reference yeah sorry to exclude you again that's all right um I used to do you're so good fake um there's fun of me doing a fake wedding where I married my dog oh you know that dog
I have no toy dog I still have on my bed napoleon polo oh so it wasn't a real dog no it wasn't it was a toy dog it was not weird yeah it still was a little bit weird and I made my grandma I made my grandma make me a fool like child -sized wedding gown oh wow that's like a veil yeah is it a photo yeah
I'll show you I'll find it for you and um then she also made my dog funnily enough it was like a bit of a lesbian wedding with the dog because um the dog was also wearing well maybe I shouldn't be presumptuous but the dog was also wearing a dress and a veil oh my god so those two brides one of which was a dog
and one of which was me so technically I'm a very progressive that's yeah thank you thank you I was very progressive child I was a very progressive child bride I feel like we can forgive child brides if if it's like yeah in marrying children if it's like lgbtq friends that was such an lgbtq moment yeah
yeah that's a good moment it really was a good moment I've been an ally since day dog yeah yeah I'm gonna put it everyone from prime minister and I'm gonna need to get like some brownie points that yeah yeah yeah I've always got always like authentic policy yeah go to all the parades even bring your
bring Paulie yeah my lover yeah yeah Napoli and the dog yeah I feel like that's very pucks in rec like oh my god when she carries the penguins I forgot about that episode oh the penguins yeah yeah and it causes that that was quite funny caused me to stir yeah with that what's the uptight lady who's
married yeah I'm such a lesbian I oh you so are like yeah yeah with better social skills yeah thanks we hope do you think I'm Ann Perkins or am I Tammy I don't know your ann yeah your ann I don't think I'm ann I think ann is a little bit too you're not Tammy no one's yeah no one's is fattest everyone's
a little bit of Tammy and I guess maybe I'm Diane yeah yeah Diane's yeah I think you're like I'm sorry I'm gonna say it like a huge smart Andy energy yeah you're totally yeah I like that though I got really nice qualities yeah I can see that maybe a bit of Chris Andy's Andy's lovely that's yeah I'd
be happy for that you'd be a really good Andy and and he wants to be a dad like you true and child at heart like you yeah we did yeah you're gonna have to cut this no it's all about the assault okay so we do one final question yeah well we have sure okay we don't have one final question what about this one
so I've been sleeping with this girl for a couple months now we're not doing that says Jack I don't want to answer that question well we can no I'm not doing that okay so you can I'm sorry I thought that sounded very aggressive I didn't mean to be so aggressive in your expert opinion should we stay
friends with our exes oh yeah I think I think so um actually it really depends on the nature of the relationship yeah which is such a vague answer yeah yeah it like I like I think that that is almost the condition of if you could be friends or not um your friends with your one of your exes I'm I'm yeah
I've got a spectrum I'm friends with one of my exes uh I'm on good terms with another and then I don't speak to one of my other exes I'm trying to fill in the blanks huh does that make sense yeah yeah it does make sense yeah yeah what about you I've I've got a a two extreme spectrum I've got a never
look at me if you come within five feet of me I might try and throw you off something large and then I've got another extreme of like we get along fine yeah yeah we'd be happy to hang out like I yeah have no issues like good pals and yeah no beef because I think I think like fundamentally and it's something
I like I remember getting coffee with my most recent ex after we broke up and be like oh wow like I really I miss her company a lot um we really go along well and I think the reason why exes can be friends is because there's such a good baseline friendship there um and banter that note like you'll definitely
get along with them um it's just like if it was a shit relationship yeah yeah and or it was about ending or if you still have feelings for them true that's another one yeah then you cannot be friends with them I have this I I'm either like I until my most recent ex I was like when I finished something
with someone I was saying I'm like I like do not speak to me anymore I don't like you I don't want any part of you in my life in some ways I do a bit of back and forth but that that sucks but I actually think that that's a really good baseline to have right because I think if you're too naive about it
and you're like I'm gonna be friends with everyone who I've broken up with it's like okay maybe re -evaluate that let's see yeah yeah it's also like the the nature of the relationship doesn't have to like at least in my case doesn't impact whether or not I'm friends with them I think like the worst breakup
I had um like I'm still friends with that person yeah the three relationships I've had yeah interesting yeah which is nice I'm still I would say I went through a period with my most recent accent like I don't feel weird talking about this because we've talked about it where I was like went through this period
of being like I really do not like you I yeah like you are a terrible person don't speak to me anymore but then when the time passes you're like oh actually like we all make mistakes and you can become very good friends with them but you have to be careful yes you can be careful with it because you
don't want to become reliant on them for emotional support again the way that you would have if you're in a relationship yeah yeah they are just another friend like I think it also matters the position that you were in prior to the relationship because I think the trap that a lot of people fall into
is they were really good friends before they started dating then they started dating and there was a whole thing when they started dating about oh they didn't want to lose their friendship etc etc and then they break up and they try and revert to that immediately and it always goes badly and it happens
to so many people that's interesting it's also like I totally get why but also that's such a factor and then I think the other key thing is time right yeah time time time's definitely the biggest one yeah you're not going to be besties the next day and if you're trying to be yeah there was a two -year
gap between when I last spoke to one of my exes and then when we became friends yeah wow oh that makes sense actually yeah and it's like yeah yeah and she just popped up and was like want to want to grab coffee I was like yeah I think that is actually makes an excellent point you need to have had enough
time to like with Jack and his old lady friend not old lady friend no no no no no she's like yeah mommy mommy connecting with that last question yeah really but like you need to you need to have had enough time to have been able to settle your resentments and to also have let feelings lessened yeah
because if you still have feelings for them you're going to want from them what you wanted from them when you're in a relationship yeah and it's not gonna work but then I do think in the long term you can be friends with your exes I totally see myself being friends with my ex now like yeah because we
were such good friends when we weren't dating and now that things have been fixed yeah we can just move I don't know maybe I'm saying this and this is like in three months of we'll be listening back but it depends it just depends if you want to have a friendship with them yeah don't you have to yeah
I think that's the other thing okay if you can't be if you can't be freaked and you have too many friends already don't do it yeah yeah because my whole thing is like I don't like the feeling of being like I had this friendship with this person I had this like you we really got along and then now we're
on icky terms like that doesn't sit well with me I think I could definitely do the whole like we're not in bad terms and not in good terms we just exist I think it's just for me the ickiness I just I don't think I could cope with like I feel like I'd have to sort of feel like really yeah I think you're
right yeah yeah I'm a big fan of the block your block yeah oh yeah the old block I'm a fan of the unfollow so yeah I like the unfollow too yeah yeah I just anyone I've been in a romantic relationship or anything with I'm always like I just cannot interact with you for at least a while yeah but then
with time time heals everything and then you can be in the same room as them and then it's fun to stalk them in social media yeah yeah yeah sure sure see if they've gotten more linked in most of them do yeah yeah all the people I've previously like dated or liked have all gotten really ugly so yeah
see sorry if you're listening but it's true yeah well I think it's also just the thing if you're not attracted to them anymore well that's troubling this isn't it yeah yeah they probably have to point out the obvious and that was a joke like they haven't all gotten ugly they're still very nice people
so anyhow we did some great we covered some ground we covered some ground I'm really and also aren't we like three really wise people yeah this is quite cool three wise mice three wise mice yeah wait is it three wise mice I don't know three wise three wise men oh three blind yeah no three wise mice
was the cooler we had a cheese board it would be complete three wise mice we had the fattest feed before this though so we did yeah um tofu out of ten eleven wow it was pretty good I had some mixed it was really nice in fact I think I had half of it Thank you, yeah anyhow thanks for joining us yeah
thanks for thanks for stopping in and asking questions yeah how was your first podcast experience I really enjoyed it I really enjoyed it I definitely couldn't do this by myself like I would be so it's a lot harder by yourself yeah yeah I've enjoyed the chats yeah well me too this was really intriguing
Jackson now he's got his his master's he's done a second yeah because like the first one I went on I was pretty nervous but I think having a group here in person was a lot better because we did it over the phone the first time yeah because it was locked down it was kind of scary you did really good
though it got really good feedback oh yeah you were you guys were really good to listen to yeah and I think it was because I knew so many of the stories as well that like or like I'd heard of them and like hearing you guys interact and talk about them was really sweet oh well now you gotta make your
debut um and I hope if you sent in a question there was like maybe three or four that we didn't answer because they were just like a bit missed or not really questions but if you did send in a question I hope we answered it well hope we didn't offend you hope that you got some solid advice yeah and also to
the I just want to do a quick shout out to the person who's in a situationship yeah yeah true true you're a king queen I don't know if it's a girl or a guy but I think that I think that's important to mention though yeah because like I'm feeling for you right now yeah and you deserve a lot yeah yeah
to all those people you all deserve a lot rock climbing yeah true rock climbing girl yeah yeah was it a girl boy it was a girl lonely lonely person oh that was you need to um thanks again for listening don't forget to subscribe wherever you subscribe to this podcast wherever you get your podcasts Meg
where can we get this podcast Spotify couple music that was really beautiful um and follow us on instagram as well it's 20 20 oh psych 20's podcast I don't even know my own instagram handle and um thanks for listening and thanks to Jack and Meg again for joining us and we'll see you yeah see you guys
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