Because losing is so painful It's so embarrassing.
It's attached with negative emotions.
You remember them more You think about them.
You can't sleep you can't eat especially if they're compounding over and over again but when you win a Lot of times you think all right.
Yeah, that was supposed to happen.
Okay moving on instead of pausing and saying What did I execute?
What was out of my control?
Where did I get lucky?
Another question is what did I learn today?
Win or lose? That's a great question.
Ask yourself Welcome to the Knowledge Project podcast.
I'm your host Shane Parrish The goal of this show is to master the best what other people have already figured out so you can unlock your potential To that end I sit down with people at the top of the game to uncover what they've learned along the way Every episode is packed with timeless ideas that you
can use in life and business If you're listening to this you're missing out if you'd like special member only episodes access before anyone else Transcripts and other member only content you can join at FS dot blog slash membership Check out the show notes for a link Justin Sue is here today Justin is the head
of mental performance for the Tampa Bay Rays a major league baseball team before that He was a mental performance coach for the Cleveland Browns and a mental skills coordinator for the Boston Red Sox.
I wanted to talk to Justin because he helps people be at their best mentally and This episode is packed with insights that transcend sports We talk about mental performance how he measures the impact of his work how he connects and builds trust consistency versus intensity the fragility of confidence
the difference between success and talent and how you can raise the bar and so much more if You're interested in learning the things that you can do to be at your best mentally.
This episode is for you It's time to listen and learn You Let's dive into a little bit about what you do in sports We sort of spend so much time on the physical stuff training and working out and eating right Rarely do we give much thought to sort of mental performance?
And yet you can't really train your body unless you train your mind a strong body can't make a strong mind But a strong mind can make a strong body.
You're a mental performance coach Let's explore that for a bit starting with what is mental performance coach That's such a great question and and depending on who I talked to I will change my answer or articulate it in a different way I think just for the sake of this podcast.
I have a I could explore a little bit more and explain a little bit deeper I think it's a very convoluted term sometimes you have these buzzwords high performance mental performance mental skills and I think one of the best ways to Explain mental performance is to look at physical performance Like like
you said you're a hundred percent right and I think a very simple and in some circles and over oversimplifying physical performance is the activation of motor skills to achieve a task now if we look at mental Performance it's the activation of mental skills to achieve a task and then the second question is okay
So what are mental skills now mental skills are what your guests speak about on this podcast all the time It's it's what knowledge workers learn It's your ability to zoom in and to zoom out to gain better perspective your ability to conduct Premortem your ability to deploy gratitude in a difficult situation It's
your ability to talk to yourself instead of listen to yourself.
And so my job is helping individuals and organizations or teams How do you how do you operationalize that it's the application of mental models?
it's the application of of decision sciences and some concepts in behavioral science and some concepts in performance psychology and And some mental models from physics or chemistry whatever it may be to help people essentially become better decision makers and also to Streamline their mental process.
How do they approach a game?
How do they approach failure?
How did they approach success?
And so I'm involved in a lot of those different types of conversation both in the micro with an individual person and then talking with a coach or or a leader of an organization to Try to create an environment where you help people do that for themselves And so that's uh, that's kind of my best definition of it
right now my current working definition You said something that I thought was quite profound when you were talking there about Talking to yourself not listening to yourself.
Can you dive in on that?
Yeah, I think What happens to a lot of us is as humans We have this constant chatter going in on our in our minds constantly thinking constantly ruminating it's just we're getting inputs from our own thoughts from our interpretations from what we're reading from what we think other people are thinking
and It's easy to get caught into these traps to get caught into believing some of these Biases that we have believing some of these thoughts and we'll take these thoughts and these thoughts are closely coupled and tied to our emotions and Which will and our emotions will ultimately impact our body and our
physiology which will ultimately impact our behaviors And so as humans we need to learn how to look at our thoughts and to develop a relationship with them Understand what is signal and what is noise and it will change from time to time depending on what context depending on what environment You're
in but basically what talk with listening to yourself is is looking at your thoughts and attaching Truth to all of them and saying yep, that's true.
That's true. That's true as opposed to pausing and debating your thoughts an example that we do it quite often is I'll have a room full of people let's say it's a team and I will tell every player to pick a teammate Okay this is your teammates and what you're going to do is You are going to do something
that you do all the time and this is something that is found in locker rooms around the world Debates people will debate best food that they will debate best movies They'll debate who's better what sports are the best and they're really good at it And so what I have them do I say okay, you're gonna debate
and I give them the topics You're gonna debate hot weather versus cold weather and you hear them go at it You're gonna debate watching the movie in the theater or watching the movie at home and they go at it And then I asked the question.
Okay, who won the debate and in a room full of highly competitive individuals They all raised their hand and they laugh at each other and then I ask okay.
How did you win the debate?
What did you do to win and they say techniques like I didn't let my opponent talk or I listened to what they said And then I poked holes in their reasoning or I applied logic and I provided evidence and data against what they were saying and then I come with the point the point is It's interesting how
you can sit here and debate a topic like whether in sport and food but You don't pause to apply those same principles to debate yourself When you start doubting yourself a lot of times we say oh that is true.
I'm not smart Oh that is true.
I'm never gonna accomplish that.
Oh, that is true He or she is better than me as opposed to stopping and saying no, let me let me look at that differently Let me apply evidence against it.
Let me let me consider the fault of my reasoning the faulty Judgment that I might be having so that's what it means to talk to yourself instead of listen to yourself.
I Think that's really interesting.
You mentioned sort of your emotions Dictating your body and your body dictating your behavior and all of that seems to happen at this unconscious level So this this internal monologue it sounds like that's when we do bring it back up to the conscious level But we're so often operating at the unconscious
level talk to me a little bit about that that is so true and That model that you just described how your thoughts affect your emotions your emotions affect your physiology your physiology affects your performance And then it loops back around this reinforcing loop is called the thought performance interaction And
this is one of the fundamental things that we discuss when you're working with an athlete or you're working with a team just to understand How this chain works?
It's very complicated very complex, but when you're working with professional athletes in particular It's got to be simple.
It's got to be direct.
It's got to be tangible so they could refer back to it fluid for them now to your point There are a lot of things that are happening unconsciously and Sometimes you don't even notice it.
It's hard to It's hard to change a system when you're part of the system it's hard to see what needs to be adjusted when you can't tell it reminds me of The commencement speech and I can't remember this is water.
I believe it is Yeah, David Foster Wallace David Foster wad at Wallace and he tells a story in the beginning of the commencement speech Where this pulled these fish are swimming along and a wise fish comes by and says hey boys How's the water?
Evan? He swims off and one fish says the other what the hell is water?
And so that is just That just explains further how sometimes you don't see the nuances and the intricacies of what's going on our mind And so what my job is or one of my job?
what I try to do is to provide an outside view to people provide it an environment where our Relationship is so strong.
It could bear the weight of truth and they are comfortable enough to Share what they're going through to share their struggles to share their internal dialogue with me and not for me to diagnose I'm not a clinical psychologist not for me to go back and and just give them this give them knowledge and truth
and dispense Pithy conversate motivational quotes but to help them look at their thoughts instead of through their thoughts and I think if you have someone or something to serve as an awareness mechanism for you to be able whether it be Going back and reflecting and saying what am I learning from this or to?
Notice behaviors you can't change what you're not aware of.
So if you stop and say oh I keep noticing that I get angry in this situation, huh?
I wonder what's in there.
Oh, hey, I noticed that when I'm in this environment I seem to be the best version of myself Hmm.
I wonder I wonder what I can uncover there And so my job is that ask questions to people and say hey, what are you noticing?
What are you noticing with your emotions?
What are you noticing with your habits?
What are you noticing with your relationships?
Not for me to tell them but for them to look out for it and a lot of times it's priming them with a question Sometimes you can ask a person afterward.
I was in education for five years and one of the things they teach you in In school is the importance of priming so I can have the class or read a sentence or read a paragraph rather They'll read a paragraph and then I'll say okay class.
What did you learn from that?
And what are the kids gonna do?
They're gonna go back and reread the paragraph because they're like, oh, I was I didn't know what To look for but if I say, all right class, we're gonna read this paragraph I want you to look for how that what you think this character character was thinking as This interaction is going on now.
They're looking for it They're certain their minds are primed to look for the answer in the moment What I have found is when I go back to an athlete at the end of a game or a season and say So, what were you thinking?
What was going on there?
They have no clue They didn't even know what they were looking for to be quite honest But if you give if you prime them beforehand and say hey, we're going into this season or you're going into this game I want you to look for moments where you feel your heart rate really speeding up and let's talk
about it at the end of the series and see if you notice any patterns come back sit down and now they're looking for it and so Those are just some ideas some ways that I look about think about how to shine a light on things that people do unconsciously So before asking you on the show somebody recommended
you and I was a little skeptical I was like a mental performance coach Like that sounds a bit hocus pocus and I ran your name by two Major League Baseball GM's and they both came back saying you're entirely legit But how do you overcome and maybe it's just my stereotype But like the the notion that a lot
of people in the trade are sort of snake oils people or it's really hard to differentiate Between good and great mental performance coaches First of all, I don't know who you asked and I'm so grateful for for them saying what they said My follow -up question to them would be how do you know what evidence
do you have? And so that's how that's my initial knee -dric reaction to be quite honest.
I think to your point a Mental performance coach when you say that a lot of people say oh, so you're motivational speaker Oh, so you're an inspirational speaker.
Oh, so you're a life coach.
No offense to any of those things however With the circles that I I work with there is a there's rigor that's involved.
There are processes There's complexities I the athletes that I work with they don't need a motivational speaker They don't need an inspirational speaker.
It comes from within Another part of this is just naturally.
I'm an excitable person naturally, I have a lot of energy that flows through me and Naturally from what I have been told just my personality I in some circles can be likable.
I could be my my friendliness and and Let's say charisma or whatever it may be can be perceived As oh this guy noted what he's he knows what he's talking about Now as are in their studies to show that their studies show that now It's my job to be a true professional if people are gonna get trapped in those
biases and think okay This person knows what he's talking about.
I need to be do my due diligence to say okay I better know what I'm talking about and and I better Truly respect the experience and the expertise of others my philosophy is Is more of Guide on the side rather than sage on the stage The the athlete who you were I work with the group I work.
They're the heroes.
They already have tools.
They already have Have values and tools and strategies that they've used to get where they are These are some of the best athletes in the world.
And so a question I always get is how do you help athletes?
What do you say to them and I come back and I said, I don't say anything What I do is I ask questions.
I if athlete comes to me and says, hey, how do I tighten up my focus?
I immediately come back with a question.
How have you tightened up your focus focus up to this point?
Oh, well, I do this I do this.
Oh, okay. Well have you been doing that?
Has do you need to change your result?
Do you cheat need to change your focus process or in what ways?
Are you not exercised there here?
Let me add another one They try this off and so a lot of times it's taking the tools They already have and polishing them up and handing them right back to them.
And I think that's really beneficial.
I Asked a general manager of a sport one time really my career How do you measure my effectiveness?
I asked him I did right to his face.
How will you measure?
how will you know that I'm good at my job and His answer was interesting.
He said I'll watch how the players and the coaches respond to you when you walk into the clubhouse and I thought that was intriguing to me.
I said, well, what do you mean?
He goes that tells me everything I need to know if they run from you that tells me what I need to know if they come Up and they approach you that tells me everything I need to know now I don't want to mistake like ability for competence because sometimes people Think oh, he's really good and the only
reason that person is good at what they do is because they're likable And so I will ask players.
I'll say okay you like me, but in what ways has this helped you?
What are you doing as a result of it?
And so another thing that we try to capture as well or I try to capture is is Quantifying the unquantifiable and that's difficult.
I think One of the best organizations in the world who's does this is Google and I have some friends over at Google and in their people Analytics department.
Okay. How do you quantify that?
How do you measure this and a lot of times it comes down to asking it comes down to surveys come downs to measuring certain behaviors and and sometimes in the as a result as well as Causation and correlation just because a player is meditating that doesn't mean he's gonna go out there and hit Well,
just because a player is now visualizing and picturing it perfectly It doesn't mean he's gonna go pitch great or have a great game it doesn't mean she's gonna run a great race and I've learned over time that a lot of what I do is is refactoring now refactoring is a mental model that I've learned from computer
programming and Essentially what refactoring is if I understand it correctly, it's It's basically a system where which you're not necessarily affecting the outcome But you're making the the system more efficient and faster the people who I work with are already resilient But can this tools that they
work with or this perspective have can they can help them bounce back faster?
They're already already really good at refocusing But does teaching them diaphragmatic breathing in some locus of control strategies can help them bounce back faster Now how to measure that we don't know But asking them and to hear them from from these anecdotal responses like hey that's helping me So
I'll go by that But yeah, it's it's a lot of it.
I really enjoy it. But to your point I'm always mindful that Don't manipulate people's emotions Don't make promises that you can't keep don't over promise things and say in and Tablepound if you do this, it's gonna make you mentally tough.
There are no five steps.
There are no silver bullets.
There are no quick fixes to things this is trying to Help them just comb out their own process and I think that's been something that's helped me along the way So one of the things you said there that I thought was really interesting and you sort of alluded to this earlier too Is that you help people
see their blind spots because it's really hard to understand a system that we're a part of It's really hard for me to understand what I can't see Even if I have the tools to see it and so pointing that out helps me perform When it comes to somebody like me, you know who's below average?
It's probably easy to get that Incremental sort of burst of improvement anyone can really do that job But when when it comes to sort of elite athletes or business executives at the top of the game or special forces When you work with people who are you know, the ninety nine point nine nine percent That edge
becomes harder and it becomes a lot more internal.
How do people respond when you start?
pointing out Areas that they might be blind to that's a great question and I Don't think I would have been able to answer this question a while ago And I think the answer this question kind of dawned on me organically Looking back and just taking Just take an inventory on all of my different experiences
whether it be working with NFL players or Soldiers in the military or an major league baseball players you I've had a number of different multiple iterations doing this with different populations who are all high performers and a common theme that I've seen is that My role or anyone even a coach's role
is To steal from Tim Elmore and I've said it earlier is to build a relationship so strong it could bear the weight of truth and That's number one to build a place where players feel safe I think they understand whoever truly knows me.
They know that I'm in a position to provide a safe space for them to help them realize that I'm not gonna judge you I have no I have no Say in in your bonuses or in your contract or you play or you don't it's it's I want to provide a place for you Where you have the freedom to speak out loud You have the freedom
to say something out loud and say you know what?
I always thought that But now hearing me say that I don't believe that and for me to say oh, okay Yeah, that's fine.
You're okay. Yeah and forward to let them literally walk through it and Walk themselves through this process and when I hear something I'll be able to tug on it and say oh you just said that this stresses you out Why do you think that stresses you out?
What about it stresses you out?
Oh? What has ever been a moment you've experienced something similar to this?
What did you do there?
and if you were to have a tape recording of some of our conversations you would see a large percentage of it has the other person talking and a very small percentage of it has me talking and when I am talking It's more questions than anything Because their answers aren't for me But it's for them and so rather
than me pointing out their blind spots or pointing out what What I think they need to do.
I've never been a professional athlete.
I've never had to manage a major league baseball team I've never ran a professional sports organization and so I get to ask really naive questions I But what's also unique about the position that I'm in these organizations understand.
Hey, let's give Justin the ability to Have to be able to go around let me go sit with the analysts and talk to them about how they build models I want to go and sit with athletic athletic trainers and talk to them and see what their environment is like and and how to help a player reconstruct their
ACL hey, let me go sit with the the clubhouse staff to see how they design the environment and the music just to to to Nudge certain emotions in the clubhouse and so it's going around and understanding how systems work and then Asking questions to help players and people understand or to answer questions that they've
never even really thought of and what's really fascinating too is afterward they'll say Oh, that was amazing.
Thank you. And then I'll say okay What was your takeaway and they'll say what their takeaway is and I will remind them just so, you know Who did who said that like I did I said you're absolutely right.
I didn't say a word here just to help them realize that You're the one with the answers You're the one with the experience and all I provided was a space for you To speak to think about it out loud to another human being who is not a family member who is not a coach Who is not?
Tied to your career But who is in the system who sees who's in the trenches in the arena with you who sees how things go and How things are how the system is navigate how you navigate the system to ask questions that other people night might not Ask you or take it in consideration.
So I think that's how I do it it's a very soft gentle subtle way of helping people through the use of Hopefully effective questions.
It sounds like you're really getting them to reflect upon themselves and to do that You hit on this earlier you have to be open and you have to be honest with you and themselves in your company what are the ins and outs sort of like about how you go about connecting with people and earning their trust
so that they can be open with you and Open with themselves around you.
I think that is the hallmark of the Ability to build relationships.
I think number one is organic.
I think it wasn't from a book.
I read it wasn't from a podcast I think it's done from watching and copying My parents and how they were number one and then number two.
It's the devil helix is in my DNA It's just how it is.
And so I think At first it was an unconscious competence that I had was like Oh, I just have an ability to make friends.
I think one of those reasons I can build connections is I First let's talk about that the population I work with Everyone's clamoring for their attention.
They're incredibly competent at what they do and their BS radar is Very high they they're media like who what are you what are you trying to put your fingerprints on me?
So you can put my face on a website and say oh, you helped me with my mental toughness Are you trying to sell something?
You're gonna use me a lot of professional athletes.
That's where it goes and so at first You can't shove anything you are not shoving mental skills or tools down their throat And so I can say all I want but they're gonna watch behavior They're gonna see how I go around what I do And so I think number one it starts by being there being if it's hot outside you're
out there sweating with them If it's cold outside you're out there freezing cold with them.
If it's a tough stretch It's it's your it's tough stretch together And I think that's number one this they see you just the ability for them to see you I think number two is is How are you used in your organization?
So another thing that People struggle to give up now is time time attention and energy are finite resources Nobody wants somebody I don't want to go to the coach and say alright coaches Can you give me 20 minutes for me to do a mental performance session with the players?
Of course not No, I'm not gonna give up this precious time to have them go sit in a room so they can do some Mindfulness meditation as good as it is.
It's important. It's very important And so I need to adapt and adjust and apply micro learning and nudge theory to their environment So instead of doing focus on a one session 30 minute long intensity session It's focusing on consistency over intensity The players have meetings all the time and it's me
collaborating with a coach and say hey Can I have a minute in the beginning to do a mental minute talk about a simple concept about how to refocus as they go about?
60 seconds they're already part of that meeting and this I have a relationship with a staff member like yeah, of course That'd be great now.
It's working instead of doing a session on habit formation with all players Hey, let me connect with the nutritionist and let's build like a little habit formation program that you could deploy The nutritionist can deploy and I'm not even involved and so I was able to collaborate with them It's diaphragmatic
breathing with the strength and conditioning coaches.
We talked with them and say, okay How can we how can we help the players do diaphragmatic breathing pregame?
Oh this incorporate it before stretch We're gonna do it this way.
I'm nowhere to be found And so I think the key is collaboration so that the players and the staff and the organization Realizes that this isn't the Justin Suez show.
I'm not gonna come and mental skill everybody all day It's how can I collaborate with?
incredible Did with different departments How do I collaborate with individuals so that it can be baked into the system as opposed to okay?
now we have to have mental performance time and so now they just get it in different ways and It's just part of the environment and don't even realize that it's it's it's embedded in there already There's two things that you said in that answer that really stand out to me and I want to explore a little
deeper What is the relationship between environment and our subconscious and performance and what are the things that we can do to Improve our environment to improve our performance.
I think James clear in his book atomic habits Says it best for me and I and I always talk about it The environment is the invisible hand that shapes behavior if you want to take a look at someone's behavior Take a look at the system in which they function in take a look at their morning routine Take
a look at their home.
Take a look at everything I here's that here's a simple little example about the power of environment is systems thinking applying the model of systems thinking I got a text one time I Got it.
I got a call it was a call from a player one time and He said oh I lack confidence.
I'm lacking confidence right now and and we had been talking about confidence he's like it was interesting how you I for some reason I don't have confidence right now and Early in my career.
I would have said okay, let's do self -talk.
Okay, let's talk about Talking yourself instead of thinking yourself or whatever it may be and Instead of going there Environment design popped in my mind systems thinking popped into my mind.
I thought who did you talk to today?
And he goes oh I went to visit my old school I ran into an old coach I had a conversation with my dad and then as he was describing his day it dawned on him.
Oh my goodness I hadn't been to that school Until since some of my worst days and that was a terrible experience for me.
Oh, wow. My dad was Harping on me about doing this.
I need to improve on this.
I need to do this better and It was in this moment where he realized oh I don't like confidence It was just I was in a bad environment today and now it's all in my head And so again, not every situation or scenario is like that.
It's not as clean but it opened my eyes to instead of Saying okay Let's just prescribe something.
Let's give a tactic to pause and consider the environment And we talked about that often the music the spacing the the wording on the walls or not having wording on the walls where where players are Situated in a clubhouse all these little things where the food is in a cafeteria the healthy food is out
in the open and the snacks are hidden in their drawers to create a Little extra friction in order to get to it.
And so it's incredibly incredibly important if anyone is trying to improve I think he James clear goes on to say you want to make good habits easy to do and bad habits hard to do and that comes down to That environment environmental design take a look at your system that you're living in that you've
created for yourself and where could you create friction?
to to avoid doing bad things and where could you avoid friction or diminish friction in order to To do those things that you know, you should be doing I think one of the reasons the environment is so powerful Is that it communicates with your subconscious and has a conversation that you're not privy
to in your conscious mind And if we break environment down because people are like, well, what is environment?
I kind of think of it as as for Four main things.
There's probably more but the way that I think about it is you have a physical environment Like if I'm trying not to eat potato chips and I see potato chips It's easy for me to eat them And so nudging your physical environment can shape your behavior because it's having a conversation with your your
unconscious Self you're the people you hang around Right.
So your friends your family the people you choose to spend time with the people you you admire in a way to What you read so what what environment is going on in your mind?
so what you're consuming and putting in your head because that becomes the thoughts that you draw on for what you build upon in the future and Then the other one is sort of organizational culture.
What are the standards that are acceptable?
What what are the what are the norms?
What are the routines?
What are the patterns because that's gonna speak to my subconscious as well.
Oh You hit on so many incredible things there one in particular that lit me up is is this internal environment?
this this mental environment that you create a An analogy a metaphor we constantly use is this this Fountains and drains now any metaphor has its limitations We all we all know that and we could pick apart any kind of metaphor But what I like about this is just the the mental picture that it creates
fountains are people who Who leveraged their values They they lean into what they're really good at doing I think we all have people who are fountains in our lives and it's when initially you think fountain you think zest a Lot of times they think oh energy and positivity and extraversion is no you
can have a family You can have people in your life who are fountains of perspective you can have people in your life who are fountains of organization a fountain of critical thinking and these are those fountains these people that you go to To to help you with these problems now, you can have a fountain of humor someone
who just who they're then a knack for levity they could have an ability to Lighten the mood and you call this person and you go around that person.
They just you they're there when you need them Now there are some people who are like, oh, well, I don't have fountains in my life I live by myself or or I live with my plants to your point shame fountains in this 2022 social media world you could find fountains in the form of poets writers scientists
artists musicians Teachers you name it they're out there now the opposite of that or are drains now These are people or concepts or ideas where it kind of it's a problem for every solution It's making excuses people who who always are always complaining now the the Caution with sharing the fountains
and the drains immediately when I share this in public settings at whatever it may be People will say yeah, I I know a drain this person's a drain that person's a drain I say wait a minute.
We all have fountain and drain tendencies I could bring my wife and kids in here right now and they could tell you when I have had my drain Moments when I was not a fun person to be around and so instead of labeling people as fountains or drains It's identifying a who who who are these fountains of mine
really focusing on the fountains?
Who are these people I can surround myself with to?
to Positively influence my internal environment as you were mentioning and so that was just a concept that I that I absolutely loved I love the notion of fountain and drains I think there's a great way to conceptualize it and I said I wanted to follow up on two parts to your answer a couple questions
ago and the second part I want to follow up on is Consistency and intensity talk to me about that relationship between the two Yes, Bruce Lee has the quote Can consistency over intensity and I forgot I'm cutting off part of it, but I think this is an often Misunderstood concept I think especially in a new
year we have these desires to Set goals and achieve these huge goals and to change our lives to work out more that play the guitar to learn another language And and we think and we have to overhaul everything now that takes a lot of energy that takes a lot of attention and when you Set out to do that the moment
you set out to achieve something like that You also sign up for the process that's gonna get you there you also sign up for The the effort that's going to get you there and what happens to a lot of people they try to make these huge overhauls of time of energy and introduce very difficult habits where we're At
first you're like oh I could do this every day but if you're not used to working out an hour every single day or Two hours every day or whatever it may be It's going to be a shock to the system at first because it's gonna have a domino effect on everything else You can't just insert something.
There's there's there's going to be Adjustments made in the system whether you intend for that to happen or even unintended unintended consequences of this new habit You're trying to create now what you can do instead is what Jim Collins does is fire a bullets before cannonballs Maybe start implementing
something small and just be consistent in the example that I gave early on his podcast We were talking about Instead of having an hour long or 30 minute long mental performance session with the players, which is oh, that's what they did back in The days that's how mental what mental skills coaches did
now It's no we're not gonna have a long session.
We're gonna have 60 -second sessions more consistent more consistently throughout the week Monday Wednesday Friday and you do it the next week and the next week where it's Embedded in and mental performance training is built into the system.
It's kind of like meditation there's one somebody I was working with who wanted to implement meditation and For some reason he or it was she she couldn't find 20 minutes To do it like she's like I just can't do 20 20 minutes and she's like Let me try 10 minutes and she couldn't do 10 minutes Now this woman was very
starting to get frustrated with herself Because she was breaking promises to herself and she was in a give it up completely.
I'm okay I guess I can't meditate and then we started talking about this concept of habit stacking we're maybe you could tie meditation to a habit that's already well established and As she combed over her routine in the morning.
She said, you know what I'm gonna do I'm gonna meditate while I brush my teeth I do it in the morning and I do it at night and wouldn't you know she instead of focusing on her breath?
She focus on the focuses on the bristles going around her gums and her teeth She puts her mind where where she wants when she wants when her mind drifts She notices it and brings it back It worked.
She instead of brushing her teeth Unconsciously just kind of going through the motions.
She would start to meditate as she was brushing her teeth and It was really neat to see her go through this process and to this day she still does it I asked you actually asked her about it It's just part of the process.
And so she focused on consistency over intensity She didn't need to sit there for 20 minutes every single day Just two minutes four minutes a day the two minutes of brushing your teeth in the morning and night and she's just consistent with it And she sees how it helps her in every aspect of her life
So that's that's a little example of how to apply the mental model of a consistency over intensity I think about this in sort of like in the short term You're as good as your intensity, but in the long term, you're only as good as your consistency.
I really like that Let's explore confidence a little bit.
Where does it come from?
How fragile is it? How do you build it back up when you lose it?
This is a topic that is discussed all the time and I think it is often misunderstood in terms of People over index its importance and what I mean by that is they?
overestimate how important confidence is I have learned through Talking to professional athletes how Many of them lack confidence.
They will tell it to my face.
They'll say I don't have confidence There are players who I will not name but who all of us know would you'd be surprised to hear how they would not?
Consider themselves very confident then you ask them.
Okay, so how do you do it?
So how are you successful and they say I don't focus on how I feel I focus on my actions I focus on actions not feelings and so I Think a Russian proverb Explains this very well a bird can rest peacefully on a branch not because of its trust in the branch But because of its trust in its ability to fly and I
think where People struggle with confidence is its obvious is often misplaced It's it's instead of being placed on their ability to bounce back their ability to learn from failure Their confidence based on something that's that's might not be there when they need it example, I always give is Have there
have been moments in your life?
We'll say school a lot of people listening to this experience school has ever been a moment where you've gone in to take a test And you're extremely confident only to get your results back and you perform poorly Yeah, that's happened to us Has there been a moment where you've gone into something gone
and take a test and you didn't feel very confident about it But you got an a you did very well.
Yes, that's happened So what does that teach us about confidence that confidence isn't an accurate predictor of future success.
And so What the research also shows is yeah, we'd like to we'd like to have more of it you'd like to have more of it than not have it and The research is called self -efficacy theory and this is Robert Bandura now to apply the research there are some things that you can do to increase confidence and Some
of those things could be your level of preparation.
It could be Your current experience success that you're having it could be your past success that you've had It could be the positive thoughts you have it could be establishing a purpose Having a why behind what you do can give you confidence to lean into difficulty and lean into obstacles now What also happens
is you want to be careful is that?
poor performance Derailing your confidence and in these professional athletes who I work with there are constant flows of input that lead the confidence and their constant flows of outflows that derail confidence and so what these players are focus on is they say okay, I Might not have a lot of confidence
right now. I might not have a lot of but you know what I'm gonna trust my training I'm gonna trust that I know what to do in this situation and I'm gonna go out there and give it the best I can regardless of how I feel and I think that is one of the hallmarks of Anybody who's really good at what they
do. They still have moments of fear.
They still get really nervous They still have our self -conscious and lack confidence and lack focus But they're able to put it together and to go out there and execute to the best of their ability in that moment And I think you'll you'll hear a lot of athletes say that yeah They're moments where I lack
confidence But I go out there and do it anyway because I focus on my actions and not how I feel Talk to me a little bit about that that drive that goes into people you sort of mentioned the fear There's also the you know from the outside looking in and I'm definitely not a mental performance coach by any
stretch But like yeah, you have like the Tom Brady's of the world who have this chip on his shoulder And it carries them it fuels them and then you have people who who you know, seek glory We all have these different motivations.
I'm curious as to what you see with athletes.
Is there a difference in the motivation between?
Average athletes which are you know way above average in the world but at your level average sort of like baseball players and The elite baseball players, is there different in that Drive?
You know, that's there is actually a book called Drive out there that that I think there are some physiological Components that tribute to it either could be some some nature part some nurture part two.
I think it's very complex however just some patterns that I've noticed is The Hall of Famers who I've talked to or who I've seen or the best of the best there's For a lot of them.
There's this obsession this own this point to where They are almost obsessed with whatever thing they are trying to pursue now Some of them are very process driven and they're obsessed with the process and the results are a byproduct of the process there are some who are obsessed with Results and they're
driven by results and I will never I've tried it a few times to nudge a professional athlete who are who are Results focused to be more process focused and it work out with some of them They're like, no, don't tell me how to shape and what how I should view my goals that that won't work for me So I
learned very quickly that okay Even though the research says that there it probably be more ideal to focus on the process It's the drive for the next contract to win the Super Bowl to win the World Series to be a Hall of Famer That is what lights their fire now what I have also noticed is The goal gradient
effect being very prevalent in these athletes now the goal gradient effect is essentially states that a person will increase their efforts the closer they get to the goal and One of the things is these people who are truly truly driven They have a vivid bright image of what they want It is clear as
day and they are driven every single day as it's the purpose Behind everything that they do now, there are moments where you start to struggle there moments where you go through slumps There are moments when you don't win a game I have been a part of that where you do not win a game the entire season and it's
devastating and Your why and your purpose starts to get clouded and so in those cases when you start to struggle individually or as a team It's somehow Creating a temporary light at the end of the tunnel because sometimes you can't see the light at the end of the tunnel You can't see the finish line
And so your motivation dips your behavior dips your drive dips and so it's like, okay How do we how do we help you create a temporary light at the end of the tunnel?
Because you're driven when you see something and the player creates a temporary one.
What are you gonna do this Sunday?
Okay? What's your goal for right here right now?
And then applying? Applying the what do you call it Newton's laws an object of motion tends to stay in motion they're building a little energy a little momentum and Once you know it they're back on track and they're rolling and again This isn't a clean fix and it's a clean trick necessarily But these
are some of the things that we try to implement to help players Not only pursue their goals, but to stick with them and to keep the energy up when times get tough Talk to me a little bit about the goal gradient effect and how it works its way into Does it work its way into contracts?
Like instead of a performance bonus at the end of the year Is there like monthly performance bonuses where people can achieve it and that way you're always closer to your goal, right?
Like there's always that one thing right there and then you're immediately incentivizing and rewarding it Versus a yearly sort of like once a year.
I think this is one of the reasons bonuses are largely ineffective a they're there Not material for the vast majority of people and they happen once a year And so you tend to get feedback once a year and you know, in those three months before you get your bonus check Everybody's running around trying
to make it look like they're doing a whole bunch of stuff and and they probably are doing a whole bunch of cool stuff But they're working harder in that three months and they probably worked in the other nine and why can't we just do that monthly?
Like why can't we we set up that the short -term goals are even weekly in some companies?
That's a great That's a great question and to answer the initial question our contracts set up like that.
I have not I don't I don't know I don't know that's that's a circle of competence that I have I don't have And so with that but to your point your apps That's so true because a lot of times with incentives and bonuses like that in the professional sports world there are so many uncontrollable factors
and when you are trying to Control something that's uncontrollable There are some unintended things that pop up you may be perceived as more selfish You may be perceived as a little more panic when the things that you try to control but can't end up controlling you and I have Seen firsthand where I
see players a little bit more stressed out than normal They're they're they're the reference level or they're set points a little bit They're moved a little more agitated a little bit more chippy and then you say hey, what's going on?
Oh, I'm one stolen base away I'm 10 hits away.
I'm and like oh, okay.
All right, and so it's okay.
How do I Keep things in perspective just trust my ability.
And so these are conversations that are had not just with professional athletes but even with people who are about to Professionals about to close a quarter or whatever it may be as they're getting closer.
It's like, okay Let me keep doing what I've been doing instead of trying to do a little more just stick with the process I think we have a bias towards action.
I think they're really literally an action bias as opposed to hey just keep doing what you're doing trust what you're doing was right and Trust that the that your process will yield the results that you're looking for as they had The entire time leading up to this point I think when you see a bonus
around the corner or or or whatever it may be you have this propensity to do something different and It might end up hurting you in the long run The world is full of talented people who never seem to succeed.
What's the difference between success and talent?
Everyone needs to find their own definition of success.
What does death what does success look like to you?
I think people struggle when they allow the world or society to Dictate what success looks like that's where I have seen people including myself Become the worst version of themselves pursuing a goal pursuing a definition of success that really doesn't matter to you I can think in my own life my definition of success
has been has evolved over time completely different now than than it used to be and I think another thing is one of the reasons for that is is How we view people and organizations that we perceive as successful The books are written about the best in the world the documentaries are made about World
champions the movies are made about these amazing incredible stories But what we learned from survivorship bias is that a lot of these people who didn't win a lot of them were doing the exact Same thing a lot of these guys and these men and women who were came in second place in third place Had the same
process and in some cases even better process What I have learned in pro sports is that?
winning Masks so many things you could win But what's talked about is how great your culture in is you're winning but it over it just over shadows all of the deficiencies and the the the problems in the system and then you look at a losing a team who quote unquote loses and What it over losing over
shadows the great leadership the great strategy the great the great the process that they have and so that mental model that I actually learned from you is the map the the map is not the Territory is we can get enamored by the end results and say oh that's so successful But if you take a look under the hood
You might find a different story.
So I think it a lot of it comes down to society.
We love the win We love a winner we love stories of winners We want to hear about how they did what they did and so I think if you really want to gain even better insight is Take a look at some of those who aren't winners and see what they did and see and you'll notice that a lot of them Are doing some
of the exact same things that the winners are doing and in some cases in some cases They might be doing some things even better then Then what the winners were doing That's a good segue sort of into a broader question About standards so often we sort of we settle for good enough, you know People get
good enough at something and then they stop I believe that part of the difference between good enough and great is Explained by pushing through good enough and going beyond what you think is possible beyond what other people When other people give up you need to find an extra gear I think of this in terms
of standards the standards you have for yourself the standards that come from the organizational culture The standards that come from the people you're around How do we go about raising that bar?
Mm -hmm I think in order to whatever bar you have or whatever norms you want to create our standards in your term That is what you said that you want to create It needs to be supported by the system you create I think a lot of and we've been talking a lot about systems and environments in this conversation.
I Think we have a lot of different organizations where the leadership wants to have certain norms certain standards However The their modeling They don't signal those norms themselves and the system isn't built to satisfy those norms How can you say we're gonna we're gonna create?
The standard is gonna be psychological safety where everyone feels safe to be creative and fail But in a meeting when someone comes up with this idea that might not work You cut their head off and say that's a dumb idea.
It's like, okay We're the what we're modeling and signaling is not in alignment with what the standards and the norms are So I think number one is to okay What standards do you want and what are the behaviors that will model or signal this standard?
And then you look at the system where in our system.
There's our system.
Can it support this?
When you talk about the extra gear when you talk about someone who wants to write a book Someone who wants to enter a fitness competition someone who wants to start a business those are very difficult things to do that are gonna take a Lot of time and a lot of times people underestimate how hard it's
going to be and how long it's going to take and so if Set off to set a standard.
You can't just put it on the shirt and say okay We're positive culture now.
We're a learning culture now.
You need to understand that there's going to be a lag There's it there's it takes time to be able to create enough inflow to where all of a sudden The the stock of whatever you're looking for whether it be psychological safety It's gonna take a little while For that to be embedded for that to be the norm
and I think that's where people struggle as they underestimate The process and how long it's going to be we we come in and say okay, we're just gonna put a This year our our year is gonna be no fear.
Everything is gonna be no fear No fear anywhere and it's like okay wait What are we talking about like how and you got to define it you got to create system you got to have?
Behaviors, what does it look like?
What does it not look like and Really create systems and norms that are low -hanging fruit for you and then slowly build from that and I think Kind of all over the place with this answer, but it's it I see it all the time and it's such a great question I I think like I came at this just through the outside
looking in right like reading about people like Tom Brady and Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant and one of the things that it seems in common They have different ways of going about it, but they all held themselves to a higher bar than anyone Could imagine even from the outside looking in but they they
also held their teammates To that level of standard that level of work ethic you watch that MJ Documentary on Netflix and it becomes obvious that they like hated him, but he made them better Absolutely, right like you can't show up at practice and give 50 % effort and coast for even a day when MJ's on your
team when I hear stories of Jordan and Tom Brady and Kobe Bryant and Just these elite athletes in their sport Simone Biles Who just dominate?
You see their habits you see their desire this insatiable desire to be the best in the world and to your point It's contagious and if you're not with them You better step up or you're out and it's it's true And I think it's also true even in the workforce you get around these people who have a higher
motor a higher cadence higher does a passion and drive to be the best in the world and They're very unique.
You don't see him all the time But when you're around this kind of individual this person to your to your point It does cause you to look at yourself and say okay, I better step up.
I better step up. There's another gear There's another level.
There's another Level inside of me that I can get to and that's why I love team sports so much or that's why I love being surrounded by fountains there's another example of being a fountain in some way of another it's you have no idea when you are pursuing something when your heart is on fire and You
can't study it enough.
You can't learn about it enough and and Someone you might think to yourself.
Oh, I can't never be like that.
I can't be like Michael Jordan.
I can't be like Tom Brady Chances are there been a moment in your life where you were so driven by something So you that you wouldn't take no for an answer and you couldn't stop thinking about it You couldn't stop researching it and that's a form of being driven That's in that moment.
You're experiencing Well, it what it looks like and your family might be saying hey relax.
You're obsessed. What are you doing?
No, I need to get this done.
No, I need to study this.
I need to write this there might be someone listening to this who has done things and put so much time into a podcast into a book into something and Your family members or your friends are like why are you doing this?
Like no one else knows about it, but you know about it and you're driven and that's what it feels like It's when you are so set Heartset on something that you want to do it the best you can and it's I don't think it's something you could force It's something that's organic that bubbles up and you don't
know when you're gonna get bit by the driven bug But when it comes out, it's a it's an exhilarating feeling.
It's amazing And then you have people who like these elite performers and even business professionals.
Maybe Elon Musk has it maybe Sarah Blakely with Spanx has it these people who?
Found what they're passionate about and then they were just driven to do it and it's like, all right If if and they want to surround themselves with people who are at extremely work at an extremely high cadence as well My kids are definitely passionate about Minecraft.
So I don't know if I want to let them listen to this It's around on me switching gears a little bit here at 19 You were an all -american baseball player and you dropped everything to go become a missionary Can you explore that with me and how it shaped?
the rest of your life so far I Never talk about this on podcast.
No one really asked about this.
It was a very difficult decision And it was a decision I wasn't forced I didn't wasn't told I had to do it I didn't get paid to do it.
I actually had to pay money to go do it and It was just something that I knew I wanted to do I knew not even that I had to do I was excited to do it now I was I remember being told by a major league baseball scout You're about to make the worst decision in your baseball career if you go do this And
I thought about it.
I said, you know what?
He's probably right and I went and it was it was it was torn I was torn So for two years I'm dropped in Nicaragua and at the time it was a third world world country I don't speak Spanish.
I talked to my family twice a year.
No TV. No baseball, no Going out to parties.
No movie. No music just go every single day and In many cases I have no electricity no running water With a companion with somebody who is from another country.
Doesn't even speak English I'm admit in some cases and you go and it was an unbelievable experience That I learned so much from how to speak another language.
I had learned how to Speak Spanish and now when I work with athletes from Korea or Venezuela or Cuba who are here I From firsthand could tell him I know what it's like to be thrown into a different culture I know it's like to not be able to order food I know it's like to cry yourself to sleep because you're
thinking I don't have anyone around here I don't have my family and friends here to support me through this difficult time another thing it taught me is that People have these preconceived notions about you.
Thank you I've never been so loved and never been so hated in my life I've had machetes pulled on me rocks thrown at me They people telling me if I see threatened my of threatening my life No clue who I was but that was just how I was viewed and I thought wow, that's interesting They don't even know
me and it was just it was incredible.
I learned teamwork I learned how to be a leader.
I learned how to navigate difficult situations I learned how to communicate How do you I had to keep it simple there?
I I had to let it keep incredibly simple not only because you want to keep things of the spiritual things simple But I had I didn't have a robust vocabulary so I had to keep it really simple and so It was trying to take something that in your heart and you want to share it with somebody But you don't
you literally don't have the words for it So I had to learn how to navigate that and build relationships in a language with people of a culture that I was unfamiliar with and so I Utilize a lot of the things that lessons I learned there in Everything really everything I do today from being a parent
to my professional life It was it was the best not it was not just the best two years of my life It was the best two years for my life You mentioned being a parent talk to me a little bit about how your experiences have Shaped your approach to raising your children raising kids is so difficult it Blows
my mind how we have three we have three teenagers how?
Your kids with the same parents in the same home eating the same food could be starkly different One look to a kid They get the feedback, okay, got it another child.
It's just way different and And one thing that I have Noticed is they've met these professional athletes.
They've seen they've been in clubhouses.
They've seen me in these stories They've seen world series.
They've seen me come home from an 0 and 16 season They've seen they've watched me in these different things and and one thing I know That I have learned from these pro athletes is the role their parents played in what they do And I would hear it for the better or for the worse I worked at the IMG Academy
for a long time Working with hundreds thousands of youth athletes and I would hear stories of mom and dad for the better or for the worst And I would learn these lessons and say okay, let me let me allow my kids to fail Let me allow my kids to Practice some form of autonomy in the house.
Let me allow let me choose which battles I want Let me let me really let me share with my kids my own failures Let me push back on my own beliefs and have my kids when they say dad Why do you believe that to be able to say you know what?
You're right. I don't that's not necessarily true, but that was that's what I was taught And so they have really kept me honest and my wife both of us honest and in how we go about it's a very organic way and so Just kind of a proud father moment so my daughter one day.
She's like I want to be an actor This is what I want to do for a living and so we said okay if you want to do this You got a we're gonna get you acting lessons and so forth and she did it for a long time Passionate about it.
We take her to Los Angeles put her in front of an agent To have an agent agent says no you're out.
No I mean no like you're not gonna cut it I'm walking her to the car.
She's big crocodile tears coming down.
I said what do you think sweetheart she goes I think I need a better acting coach, and I said okay.
We'll get you a better acting coach, and so she works on it Long story short she gets an agent move to Los Angeles.
She auditions hundreds of times Doesn't get any jobs until she gets a phone call from Dwayne Johnson's people She becomes Dwayne she co -ax co -starred with Dwayne Johnson on a movie called Hobbs and Shaw and She plays his daughter in that movie And it was neat to see her story and as she talks about it
just like she's gotten one role She's had a number of roles after that But it was neat to see her walk through that story and then my son is now Interested in music and he's working with some great artists around the world But what we do is we always talk about probabilistic reasoning And it might sound
weird to talk about that But that was a framework and model that we always talk about and I always tell them Do you know what the odds of you getting this role is?
They used to be 95 % 99 % now.
They've learned that no 5 % and it's probably lower than that But does that mean don't do it?
No daddy? I'm still gonna do it why because I love it and I learned that from these athletes The athletes are the ones who tell me that the odds were against them They sure shared of me everything that they did but and they always had coaches and parents telling them you should go do something else
You should go do this.
You should have a backup plan, but none of them did and I'm working exclusively with this top 1 % half a percent with people who overcame all these odds and what they tell me is that what propelled them is their drive like we talked about their love for doing what they do and What would have been more
rational is to pick something else because the odds of making it the highest level we're not was not there Go do something else but if you're But there they know hey the odds are against me, but I love it So I'm not gonna stop doing it.
And so that's what we're trying to teach our kids Many times unsuccessfully we're fumbling bumbling along, but it's been a fun process That's I remember watching your daughter actually in that movie in the cafeteria At the table now that you I didn't know is your daughter until now and then I was like,
oh my god That's she's adorable man.
That's she's awesome.
Appreciate it, brother I'm curious like you've talked before but sort of the difference between losing and being beaten I'm wondering if you can explore that a little bit for me.
Yeah, I was actually inspired by it from a question that you had with Chris but Chris Bosch and for those who did not see that episode I I Completely agree with him in pro sports at the highest level There is no tiptoeing around like oh, dude, we didn't lose we got beat.
No you lost an L is an L In in a win is a win.
Sometimes you win in dominating fashion and sometimes you win ugly But you win at the end of the day, we're trying to win the Super Bowl a World Series a championship whatever it may be however context is huge and When you're working with amateur athletes and even sometimes in the professional realm,
it's important to understand this dynamic between losing and being beat now losing you can frame it as You didn't give your best effort losing is you beat yourself that is Truly truly losing where you didn't do whatever it take you lacked preparation you You just beat yourself from mistakes from maybe
it could be mental mistakes that For one reason or another you just felt sorry for yourself.
You're making excuses mental mistake Whatever it may be being beaten on the other hand could be seen as you did everything that you possibly could You checked every single box.
You gave your absolute best the other team was just better than you that day and That is being beaten the difference between losing and being beaten I struggle with that sometimes but I think in some contexts It's very important to to say and very important to to distinguish a phrase that people who know
me Know that I do not like there's a phrase out there.
It says sometimes you win sometimes you learn I can't stand that phrase and the reason I can't stand that phrase is because it implies two things It implies that you can't learn from winning like you win or you learn No, you you can learn a lot from winning success leaves clues.
What also implies Losing is some word that no one says of I didn't lose I learned no you lost own it you lost you got beat today and That's life.
You're going to lose sometimes and Instead of flowering it up and say no.
No, I didn't lose. I just ran out of time.
I didn't lose No, like you lost now, I will say this there are some individuals.
I Know an individual who's a Major League Baseball player.
He never likes to say that the pitcher beat me He'll never say the pitcher pitcher beat him ever ever.
No that that picture didn't he didn't be I he got lucky He got lucky.
I'm the one who struck out.
I struck myself out.
He didn't strike me out and That's a confidence mechanism.
He said and I'm not gonna tell him otherwise But it's in all I'm saying is to identify what works best for you How do you need to frame winning and losing?
to help you Learn lessons and come back a better version of yourself next time.
Is it how Chris Bosch views it think great that works for you Great.
Is it how Larry Gelwix views it who is the coach of the Highland rugby team who you the loser get beaten?
Whatever works best for you So that's why frameworks and framing is very important and also be aware that your framing Might change as you change as you evolve it could change over time One thing you said there that it struck out to me was success leaves clues Tell me more about that because losing
is so painful it's so embarrassing is so It's attached with negative emotions You remember them more you think about them.
You can't sleep you can't eat Especially if they're compounding over and over again, and so when you're losing You're always thinking what can I do to improve it?
What can I do to get better?
But when you win a lot of times you think I was supposed to win.
Yeah. All right. Yeah That was supposed to happen.
Okay, moving on moving on instead of pausing and saying What did I learn?
What did I execute?
What was out of my control?
Where did I get lucky?
What did I what did the opponent what mistakes that I capitalized from the opponent?
What is something that I could take into my next performance?
and that's why I think this self -reflection piece is so important to take the same set of questions after a win or after a loss and Use this lens these quite this self -reflection questioning process to ask yourself no matter if it's a success or a failure So if you lose if you ask yourself, okay, what did
I what did I do? Well today?
Okay What went well today win or lose?
That's a great question.
Ask yourself Another question is what did I learn today win or lose?
That's a great question ask yourself.
And then last question What am I gonna do better tomorrow?
Win or lose that's a great question to ask yourself and I think sometimes Because going back to what we said earlier winning masks a lot of things There's a lot of positive emotions triggered to it kind of brush the lessons of winning right under the rug and move on instead of pausing And saying hey,
let me collect some of these lessons so I can use them moving forward One of the things I got out of that Chris Bosch Conversation was that some people sort of accomplish their goals they set for themselves whether it's you know Winning a championship or saving a million dollars and getting in promotion and then
something changes They take their foot off their gas and they slow down what's happening there?
This is another part of that goal gradient effect We tend this the problem with the 30 -day The 30 -day weight loss programs.
This is the problem with having finite destinations or finish lines To whatever you're trying to achieve because what happens a lot of times is you once you achieve it once you sprint past the finish line, what do we tend to do we take our foot off the gas and so and A lot of times because you exert
so much effort and so much power to sprint your way towards the end like oh That's unsustainable.
You can't sustain that amount of effort all the way through and so what Chris mentions is is so true is There is a time for rest and recovery.
There is a time where you need to okay Work like a lion and attack and then rest attack and then rest How can you set your goal pursuits up just like that?
It's not I'm going to be happy when it's creating this longevity these systems where you can keep going further and further and further because as the Haitian proverb says behind mountains are more mountains Behind goals are more goals and if you prime yourself for that and say, okay, I need to Be ready
for the long haul and a lot of times.
It's just a priming yourself a mental just mentally Being ready for to say hey this I'm not just trying to win today.
I'm trying to link win for the long haul What can listeners do to improve their mental performance?
This is always a difficult question because I My initial question to myself is what's the context so speaking to a global general audience?
I have more questions to consider some more considerations than prescriptions So to improve your mental performance is the first thing you need to do and we talked that you actually mentioned this earlier on and I completely agree is the connection between your physical performance and mental performance
and One of the best ways to enhance mental performance is to make sure you have the physio fundamental mental established make sure You're getting quality sleep make sure you are getting quality nutrition fueling and exercise and strong relationships like that might you might think wait that's That's
gonna help my mind.
It absolutely helps your mind.
It is the fundamental pillars of mental performance and cognitive performance is sleep nutrition exercise and Deep relationships strong relationships number one.
So establish that how are those quality of those?
I think number two is then Start to start to do some exploration Pay attention start to collect some data on yourself.
Just go about your day and notice notice your energy Notice your focus ask questions about your confidence ask questions about your environment You can't change what you're not aware of so pay attention Pick some aspects of your life and say, okay.
Let me look at my focus my confidence and My mood, let's just pick those three things or my response to stress my stress levels And then you just pay attention as you go throughout the day Notice when your confidence is up notice when it's down notice when your stress levels are up and what you do about it
when it's down start with collecting some Personal data and then you go and you say okay try find some patterns.
Oh in the morning have tons of energy I'm really good.
Oh one six o 'clock kids.
I notice I'm a lot more irritable.
I'm a lot more Impulsive and Then what you do is you go online and you start googling things grab a book listen to a podcast Okay, how to improve confidence and listen find these experts out there.
I love this because you can Learn about yourself, but it starts by asking the questions if you want better answers start asking better questions and that's what I love about this journey and mental performance and is that it's tied to so many things and You could start learning it about it right now
What are some of the best mental models for athletic performance?
I? Think the ones that we organically talk about don't explicitly talk about our feedback loops systems thinking and One in particular I'll give you a specific example.
We'll take arousal control So an athlete has a certain arousal control reference point.
They have their set points.
It's a Probably at a higher level than your average person because of They're playing under the bright lights in front of fans Like their heart rates up all the time a lot of pressures going on now They're used to that they have a certain reference point and we even call it a number of intensity on a scale
of one to ten what what's your what's your Reference level of where you play at your best a lot of players will say I'm at my best from five to seven from six To eight they described it what it feels like and so forth Anything higher is too much Anything lower is too small and then what they create
are these balancing loops if they're too low, okay What do you do to get your number up?
And if you're too high, what do you do to slow it down now?
It's often happens in the playoffs or in the World Series In high leverage stressful situations players will recognize that their heart rate is up.
Oh, there's a signal I need to activate a balancing loop I need to bring my heart rate down because my it is getting outside of my my reference level What do they do?
They have been taught diaphragmatic breathing.
So they know that okay if I Focusing on the exhale if I inhale what's gonna happen is my heart is going to expand and It's gonna signal to my brain to get the blood pump get my heart rate pumping if I exhale My diaphragm goes up my heart starts to shrink brain sends a signal to my heart slow your heart
down And so the players know focus on the exhale Let me get some good long deep exhales and that serves as a balancing loop So there's one so we and I don't use this language with the players by the way They gets a lot more simple than that.
We do not talk like that But that's what's going on in my mind to help the players and then I think another one Common one is we spoke about this earlier as the map is not the territory a Player can have let's say baseball.
It's such an easy one to talk about a player can go 0 for 4 with four strikeouts on Paper that's a very bad day.
Very that's a rough day and in some cases an embarrassing day But the map is not the territory.
Maybe they had a plan.
Maybe they're right on those pitches Maybe an umpire made a bad call.
Maybe a player can have an 0 for 4 day with four strikeouts and Still pull some very good things.
They did in those at bats not ideal.
Obviously, we're not saying it's great We're not we're not chalking it up as a true success.
However, the map is not the territory necessarily the territory Conversely a player can go four for four and say oh, I Broken bat single.
I Hit a little squibbler away from the the shift and they can say hey, even though I have four hits on paper There are some things I need to do better next time.
So those are two off the top of my head mental models that I Used personally as I'm working with people on an individual scale That's excellent.
Thank you. I want to end with a question that we ask a lot of people but what is success for you?
Success for me for me is is freedom and Not freedom that has to be given to me but freedom that is earned through mastery I think Playing piano, for example, if you were to tell me to play Mary had a little lamb.
I would have no clue what to do but if you would show me I can pluck away Mary had a little lamb and I could do the best I could given my level of expertise, which is nothing very low But then you bring a concert pianist in and have her play Mary have a little man had a little lamb She has all the freedom
in the world because she understands the fundamentals She's a master of her domain.
And so her freedom is a byproduct of Mastering the fundamentals.
I'm in the point in my life right now where I'm trying to master Different aspects of my life so I can experience the freedom that comes with it And where freedom comes creativity comes I love creativity I love to feel that I am coming at a problem from a different angle And I feel safe to do so and I
have substantiated research and principles and models to Support where I'm coming from.
So I'm trying to Leverage and find freedom of learning how to leverage my time in a very demanding job to be able to be home more with my family I'm trying to master and have more freedom over my energy by learning about nutrition in sleep I'm trying to gain financial freedom by not learning not just
learning the financials and accounting of money and how to use my money But the psychology of money Morgan Housle's work and just understanding what it does and biases and so right now success to me is is is Freedom just trying to have freedom as which is a function of mastery That's a beautiful answer
man, thank you so much for a wonderful conversation Thanks so much Shane it was a pleasure You The Knowledge Project is produced by the team at Fernum Street I'd love to get your advice on how to make this the most valuable podcast you listen to email me at Shane at FS dot blog You can learn more about the show
and find past episodes at FS dot blog slash podcast To get a transcript of this episode go to FS dot blog slash tribe or check out the show notes Can you do me a small favor go online right now and share this episode with one friend who you think would love it Thanks for listening and learning with us
till next time
