To have that endless competitive streak you gotta have a fire in your belly morning noon and night the trait that I'm describing to is really the 1 % of the 1 % and you know it when you see that Competitive because it's kind of a competitive asshole is what you have to become in sports at least And what I've
learned in business and in life is you've got to be a competitive Compromiser and that requires kindness empathy ingenuity But the same level of like aggressive competitive spirit, but it's shifted in sports.
It's binary. You can just tackle someone and win Can't do that in life Welcome to the knowledge project.
I'm your host Shane Parrish The goal of this podcast is to master the best what other people have already figured out so you can unlock your potential We interview world -class doers and thinkers so that you can better analyze problems seize opportunities and Master decision -making every episode is packed
with lessons and insights that never expire if you're listening to this You're missing out if you'd like special member only episodes access before anyone else Transcripts and other member only content you can join at FS dot blog slash membership check out the show notes for a link Paul Rabel is here
today. Paul is the Michael Jordan of lacrosse Not only is he the face of lacrosse.
He's literally the best lacrosse player to ever exist.
He's also a gold medal winner He's also one of the co -founders of the professional lacrosse league, which is heading into its fourth season I wanted to talk to Paul because I'm interested in how the best become the best and how they stay the best I want to know the mindsets the competitiveness the drive
and all the things that make that possible We talked about how Bill Belichick tried to make him as safety in the NFL where confidence and competitiveness come from the business side Of sports the mental tools to recover after making a mistake how to handle stress and so much more It's time to listen
and learn I Think the place I want to dive in is tell me the story of how Bill Belichick once tried to make you a safety He He is a lacrosse player.
He grew up playing lacrosse in Annapolis, Maryland and He played lacrosse in college and his father was the football coach at Navy and that's really where he cut his teeth Literally in the film room cutting tape and that led to where he is today is I think the football coach giant of the world and Even
like in a micro Setting for coach Belichick.
He started cutting tape and I think in the world of sports I'm in the sports business a lot of the best executives Commissioners owners started selling tickets For if that lands for anyone out there listening then bill Because of his fandom of lacrosse his allegiance to lacrosse in a way He would come
to Johns Hopkins practices, which is the school I attended 2004 to 2008 and I built a relationship with him and my junior and senior year I was a captain and I remember asking my coach at the time Petromala if I could get 10 15 minutes with Belichick when he would come to Baltimore and then he granted
me that I graduated from Hopkins.
He sent a box of Patriots swag to my home At the time because he knew that I was a Washington football fan Growing up in the DMV and he was like now you can support the Patriots I had a really good rookie year playing professional lacrosse and I continued to build my relationship with coach and We would go
to dinner a couple times a year and he would invite me a Patriots game the weekend with him and that started turning into conversations and I would suspect that for players that he has either Drafted or signed and more likely signed that aren't football players or non -traditional SEC recruits It started
with a conversation that we had which was I think you could play in the NFL and I was like I want to play wide receiver He's like I think you'd be a strong safety I was like why he was like because you have the size and speed or strong safety is a new member work ethic in Our league and we went for about six
months of Deliberating that and then we both came back together.
He's like, you know what?
Things are tracking really well on lacrosse I was just the MVP at the time and playing with Team USA And we just had a practical conversation Wayne risk reward and never pursued it Well talk to me about that because you're you you would be going from the top of the lacrosse world To I'm assuming on the bubble
of the NFL roster for sure the bottom of the of the football world I guess to your to your analogy, you know, we just had a guy Play for half the season in the PLL NFL fans know him.
His name is Chris Hogan Chris is two years younger than me and literally took the path that I was contemplating he was a an all -american at Penn State and He did take a fifth year because you're given five years of athletic eligibility The NCAA level four of them to one specific sport.
So he took his fifth year and played football at Monmouth And he went the NFL route and he was like jumping from training camp to training camp roster roster It really took him eight nine years to break through then when he broke through he had big moments big Super Bowl moments that led to an 11 million dollar
a year contract and But not every path goes like Chris's it was just really significant for me because we shared in so many Similar traits like he was a college Midfielder as I was and and bill ended up trading for him.
Yeah But there's just so much risk and and you know, I don't regret it at all Because of where I am in my career on the professional side on the ownership side of a sport that continues to emerge And what I really love doing which is storytelling and building businesses I'm not sure if I would have been
able to protect my head to be honest.
It's such a violent sport and I wonder if you would look back and sort of You know life expectancy of the NFL players not really long and miss this opportunity or regret Becoming the greatest ever in your sport.
I mean the thing about Sport that I don't think people realize and it's the same in any industry There's a reset button at every level from junior high to high high to college college to pro program national Meaning you can be the best in class.
And when you go to the next level you're then at the bottom of the roster and The difference between amateurism and professionalism Yeah, I know amateurism is changing now with an image unlike this regulation at the college level But just call it amateurism is college and below There's a professional
is you have people looking after you and holding your hand as an amateur athlete Professionally no one does and no one talks about it either In fact, all we talk about is the path the pro we don't talk about the path as a pro to 35 And and that's really what athletes want.
They don't want to fall into the expected two and a half of your cycle that all pro sports have So it's unchartered territory and remains to be that way.
But but the reason I share that story is like It just doesn't matter how good of a college player you are.
What matters is like what you do and how you apply yourself Consistently in your head space at the professional level and that's what bill has a sense for And he was like this guy didn't play college football, but he's got this work ethic that Translates to longevity and I think that we see again we
see that in business, but that that was that's been a glaring Characteristic that I try to identify even with the next -gen lacrosse player or athletes that I see today in other sports How do you maintain that level of work ethic and sort of dedication and love for the sport through the grind through
the years? Yeah, it's it's I think a lot of it is innate to be honest and it's a it's a dangerous path because to have that Endless competitive streak you've got to have a fire in your belly morning noon and night and That's hard to reconcile with because most of the time in sport most of the time in life
you fail and So those that have that competitive streak and that desire to be the best and that relentlessness the doggedness They also sit in that Seemingly black hole of failure more than others, but that's also why they come out better more than others and and so you need therapy you need like good
sports psychology and The trait that I'm describing to is really the 1 % of the 1 % and you know it when you see that Competitive because it's kind of a competitive asshole is what you have to become in sports at least what I've learned in business and in life is you've got to be a competitive compromiser
and And that requires kindness empathy ingenuity But the same level of like aggressive competitive spirit, but it's shifted in sports.
It's binary You can just tackle someone and win can't do that in life.
Talk to me a little bit more about what did you call it?
competitive competitive compromise, but yeah, I think the difference between sports and and real life is compromise and You know we my position is unique because I got to Build a league and play in it Most athletes play in leagues and then when they retire they transition So the conversation is always
transferable skill sets between sport and business sport life.
I got to see oh damn I actually think there might be better transferable skills and business back to sport it's just that's reverse order that most people don't get and it really helps with leadership and and essentially what I'm referring to in sports and why people love it is That we get to sit for two
hours and count on a binary outcome.
Someone's gonna win someone's gonna lose and It's usually a derivative physicality And then there's community and engagement tied to which team or which players you're backing So it's these like exits that we get from the reality of life and we get to know that we're gonna either win or lose And life
if you approach it with a win or lose mentality, you're always gonna lose Because in business put it this way the network deal that I'm Structuring right now if if we feel as a company that we won that means that they lost And there's certain aspects of the deal, you know, it's a nuanced same thing
in sponsorship Same thing with employment structured of agreements And so you actually just want to build towards win win and that requires sometimes more conversations it also requires more concessions and And that's what I mean by compromise But if you think of that like the only sustainable relationship
is win -win like if somebody's losing if one party's losing in a relationship It can't exist across time and what will exist is resentment which inevitably comes to the surface at some point unless there is a You know, there's some less there's like a narcissistic Relational tendencies or manipulation that is also unhealthy
and I think that's your point You know you look at romantic relationship with platonic relationships the the compromise to me Prevails we're gonna jump around a little bit here in terms of the podcast But you're the only player I can think of who started their own league What sort of surprised you the most
about that journey how I got there I think because it was never part of my plan I wanted to model and emulate my career really around Michael Jordan, that's where competitively I ran into Some challenges and I referenced sports psychology and therapy earlier to help get through it Michael Jordan, I
think was the greatest athlete and greatest competitor of all time and the way that what makes you say that well having read most of his Biographies having watched every piece of media around him that's been published across, you know traditional mediums I can't say I've watched every YouTube highlight
of his but knowing his team and then his track record So if you just look at success side by side Every championship he was in he won and he was the MVP of that championship.
No one's ever done that He was six for six at the highest level and he probably would have been eight for eight if he didn't take a short sabbatical To go play baseball that feat to me is just sheer dominance That you can win every championship You're in and be the MVP of that in a two -way sport where he
plays offensive defense where he was also a defensive player of the year offensive player of the year, so he just dominated and I think those that are close to him, which I am NOT Would say that that was through his sheer competitive level Day to day and everything that he did.
Yeah, so I wanted to be Michael Jordan on the field And I want to be Michael Jordan off the field which meant I was gonna take an ownership position professional lacrosse But I thought it would be through the existing league and then over 10 years of playing I Have this like I think it's probably more
innate than it is learned but learning has really sparked that passion over the last 10 years for me more anything else is for media and Storytelling and and then what soon became business and I think business was by necessity because professional lacrosse players don't make much money So you have to
figure out ancillary income streams But I became a student of sports and sports business and sports media and I kept running into almost at every turn Obstacles and questions as to why Major League lacrosse at the time was not doing what the UFC was doing or MLS was doing or MLB was doing or NBA was doing
and I would have those conversations with leadership and They were met with a lot of resistance and Over 10 year period I you know had I think lobbied enough support from players and respect from players and even different, you know outside interest and then the intersection of my brother and I my brothers
and serial entrepreneur and him finishing really his like third cycle Of building businesses looking for a new one we decided to look at the intersection of sports and entertainment in particular sport that I think I have subject matter expertise on and that's Lacrosse and that that was how we got there
What are some of the lessons that you've learned about the business of sports that most people in the industry miss if I could just say lessons in the business without Really knowing if people miss or I could refer to where MLL was missing is is that we're actually just in the media business It's all
about distribution.
You can have the greatest product in the world Agnostic of industry if no one sees it, it doesn't matter And so if you want to monetize your product in the commercial space, which were a commercial business You've got to get the core audience eyeballs on it and engaged and then you've got to go after net
new eyeballs and So everything starts with your distribution deal professional sports Team sports in America dating back to the early 1900s in our pastime is major league baseball It was a ticket business and I was an event business It was just printing radio at the time television era of the 60s uplifted
the NFL now you could say sports especially emerging sports are transformative because of the digital and social era that we're in that's our media, but you still have to access The knowns of media which are television Print and call it audio now because that gives you maybe not the scale that digital
and social does but it gives you the It gives you like the gold standard of respect and and almost like eligibility of Mindshare for sports fans around the world.
I want to come back to a little bit about you as a player I mean you you achieved basically being the Michael Jordan of your sport, right?
How did you handle?
The the pressure that comes along with that or did you ever feel that pressure?
Well based on my standard of Michael Jordan, I did not achieve that I've lost championships And I certainly wasn't the player that he was relative to his sport Well just to put it in context the greatest lacrosse player of all time we can consider MJ the greatest basketball player of all time Yeah the unknown for me
at the time of the trick in a way is that I never I Never focused on getting too far ahead of where I was at the time and the time for me and the lessons in sport Is real are really meditative.
It's being present and Completing the task at hand to the best of your ability.
So whether that was like every day against the wall shooting on that I Would have this approach that I wouldn't stop until I felt like I got as close to perfect as possible And so it wasn't like timed.
It wasn't a number of reps It was just out there because I wanted to be great And then when I was playing was high school college professionally internationally I always wanted to be the best version of myself and then the best version on On that team and then the best player on the field which could you
know then? Quickly became best in the world or best in college or best in high school.
So it was like that process to me Unfolded Organically if that makes any sense I didn't because I do see kids that say I want to be the best in the world or I want to be the best player In high school and and they're not even close to being the best player on their midfield line yet So I stacked them
I think appropriately It's not that I ignored or I'd never put a you know a goal that I wanted to be the greatest player ever I did But I I focused on how to get there versus just saying I want to be there Were you always the hardest worker on the teams that you were on?
I mean, I think that's that's relative or I shouldn't say It is relative but mostly subjective.
I believed that I was And they were probably guys that thought that they worked harder than me But they but they maybe only thought of it linearly They worked harder than me in the weight room and worked harder than me maybe on the field but why why I think that My meter was always full is I never stopped
thinking about it and even to this day I think what helps drive our business is that Mike and I think about it all the time and it's a blessing and a curse But I'll be watching You know squid game and thinking about how squid game became the most popular title on Netflix I immediately start thinking
about the business and I'm reading about it and seeing the simultaneous release in 190 countries in 31 different Close captions and 13 different dub overs all that once first time they ever did that so they eliminated the language barrier It became a universal title overnight What what are the lessons
in sports? And so that's what I mean whether I was playing I was like watching Chris Paul make a pass with his weak hand off -balance What's that lesson him across?
How can I emulate that?
It wasn't just what I was doing on the field It was what I was doing really in everything in life.
I think that's so important I don't think you'll ever be exceptional at anything.
You're not sort of thinking about constantly When you were practicing was it sort of regimented or was it more creative?
It was creative at first and then it became very regimented.
The way that I think about my career is actually in three phases I Started playing the game when I was 12 and all the way up until my sophomore year in high school I was playing because I had a passion for it was fun.
I Loved it the fun and the love didn't go away got superseded by competitiveness and My sophomore year.
I started getting like a lot of eyeballs and recruits recruiting letters and stuff and so then I started really like Regimenting gamifying in many cases doing whatever I could timing counting everything that I did and That was both tiresome, but it was also in my opinion the fastest path to like high
-growth improvement and that lasted really all the way until I was about 28 to 30 in that range that's why I started getting injured and I think what would happen is like Sustainably you can only be that competitive in a contact sport the way that I played for so long without Finally breaking down and the breaking
down was my body and then my mind because of my body that's what I got in you know had surgeries got the sports psychology got into therapy and then the Back portion of my career called 31 to 35 has been more reflective and more appreciative I've had to recharge that compete level at moments But I could also shut
it off and I could also play for fun and shut that off too And so you think about athletes when they're at their best is maybe the ability to to have an overarching Approach that is within their control.
You're still going.
I mean you're still playing What things do you sort of do to take care of your body now?
Like what nutrition habits do you have what do you do from a physical standpoint to keep it going?
Is there like a Tom Brady stretching?
Sort of playability regimen going on here.
What do you have on the back end here?
Well, I just I just retired after the season I Yeah, I had a really good season which it actually didn't make it difficult to retire for me because I Had made that decision at least Personally in advance of the season because of the toll of building the league and playing in it Physically my body contained
a breakdown and then just mentally I was I was not there as I used to be Coming out of the pandemic and building the bubble and playing and that was difficult as well But I felt like it was time to To really like centralized my efforts and drive lacrosse forward So so it turns out I had one of my best
seasons as a 35 year old playing injured and that's I think Largely because I knew and I was the only one who knew that I was emptying out the tank every weekend but to sustain a career into your 30s even into your 20s as a As a hard charging professional athlete that's in a contact sport.
You always have to take care of your body Sleep number one hydrate number two eat number three stay on your workouts number four Stay on your skill number four 4 .2 and the reason I say that is like, you know as you get in your late 20s and 30s the margin for improvement on skill is really thin And in fact,
like you're able to tap into skill better If you're smarter that you weren't able to utilize you didn't even know you had So to speak but to be able to play well in your career You just have to carry your body in your mind in season and offseason always always Omnipresent there.
How do you take care of your mind go deeper on that?
Well taking care of your mind starts with taking care of your body Because your body will let your your mind down as an athlete And I think that's probably the case for anyone really so there's like there's tactics tangible steps that will help your mental By eating well sleeping while staying hydrated.
That's one number two is you know really understanding Why the way you are and in particular I find it very relational Like what makes you happy what makes you sad makes you agitated?
What gives you your anxiety and stress and understanding?
Whether that's attachment theory whether that is the way that you know, you have overlapped your career with your life and What are the upside and downsides there the way to unpack it is the best way to unpack it is with counsel Whether that's for athletes in sports psychology and therapy and couples
therapy, I think that in sports, it's a great place to Analyze how we improve no one bats an eye at having a shooting coach a head coach an assistant coach a strength coach a medical team doctors physios Physical therapists trainers like they're all there to help because they're experts Why not tap
into if we want to improve our mental health experts in that field?
Well, it's been stereotyped and stigmatized through modern media and you know slow return advancements as to why but I think we're close to breaking through that That obstacle when you were playing do you did you ever?
Feel like somebody else was better than you like there was a better player than you That's a great question.
So the truth is that I did it But I always felt threatened by that and I was always comparing myself to others and that was the bad side of it The comparison was the bad side.
Oh, yeah, because you're constantly a being you're constantly like judging other people and you know Looking at their stats versus yours and it's like unhealthy because that wasn't the best path to continued growth Personally, which is what I was describing earlier but that was just there because I
was I was a competitive asshole and and so the you know the the tricky part about sports is you know the balance of confidence versus cockiness versus You know hints of narcissism around I am the best and I'm the best because I just believe I'm the best or I'm telling you I'm the best like it's highly
subjective You can't get there without Like fully buying into that and you can't fully buy into that without really putting in all the work that you can and having the results on the field so You know, I see I see You know people trying to convince others that they are convinced themselves But it's
it's a holistic approach and then and then irrational belief Because a lot of times I wasn't Probably very few times I was But if I didn't buy into that Belief then I wouldn't have continued to improve like I did.
So almost sort of like If I were to paraphrase confidence comes from putting in the work and the results and at times having an irrational belief in yourself Yes, that's right.
And and the the ability to Persevere Through failure.
I think there's a misconception out there that Successful people have faced fewer obstacles than most It's quite the opposite.
I think what makes successful people or successful athletes.
I'll just use that as an example is they Have failed in many cases more than most people because they've had the audacity to try things that are out of their wheelhouse More regularly, they take up they have high risk You know, we'll continue with Michael Jordan famously cut from the varsity team He
was a sophomore. That's not not the part of the story.
They told in a time.
We're like no sophomores made varsity But like that the story is like oh you just cut from the basketball team Well, we played JB and he was the best player in JB but He had the audacity to try out for the varsity team then get cut take it personally and come back way better Than had he made the varsity
team at sophomore year?
So in hindsight, it's actually those high risk the volume of take of risk -taking Met by the resilience and the ability to like get up and and be better because of that failure A lot of great athletes take it personally And those are things that you also have to shed when when you get out of Sport and into
life and businesses take things less personally But in sport things are very personal and I think that in a way drives that Outcome that we see with a lot of athletes How do you do that in a game or sort of after a game like you make a mistake how do you put that out of your mind go on to the next play
the next series or The next game like how what is the mental process you go through?
To sort of you know in Belichick's words were on to Cincinnati, right?
Like what is that process that you're you're sort of driving every athlete will tell you it's easier said than done But it is the key to success and consistency over time is your ability to have resilience in a game.
I think what makes sports Great is that you can have a poor game and then use the weak to recalibrate So you go back and you practice and then you get the benefit of time which time is a healing mechanism To do that in the in a 60 -minute game is a lot more difficult requires.
I think a high level of mental aptitude And and mental training, so I'll give you one example.
It's called a rebound goal I think golf gets it right golf is a really challenging sport and that's the genesis of rebound goals an example of a rebound goal in Golf is an up and down Where like literally Phil Mickelson has made tens of if not hundreds of millions of dollars being famous for?
Hitting miraculous shots, which by the way, it's a miraculous shot because he had a shitty tee shot but they celebrate and up and down and That's it.
That's a rebound goal because it's coming off of a bad shot in in most sports if you have a bad shot What do you think the next shot is gonna be bad again bad again bad again?
And that's what we're trying to fix is your suggestion.
So Creating in team sports a lot more difficult than golf Because they because of what kind of just said in team sports there's more people on the field and there's there's more Actions and reactions that are out of your control.
So I always focused on what are my rebound?
opportunities off of a bad play That are within my control and it's like a lot of it was like effort getting back on defense I took a bad shot or turn the ball over I would stay on the field to try to like get that mental rep back Where a lot of people make a bad shot or turnover and they run off the field miss
about? So not knowing that I can't count on the ball will be back on my stick again Can I go stay on the field and play defense against the guy who does have the ball on a stick and build that confidence?
Back up. That's a rebound goal control the controllables, right?
What can I do right now?
Yeah, the next sort of thing to get me back on track.
It's almost like remembering the basics, right?
So it's like you get lost you make a bad play and then it's like, okay.
I don't want to get fancy I don't want to get complicated.
I just want to get back to like what are the core things I need to pay attention to you Yeah, but you know the other thing is You know step one is that awareness step two is then adjusting the neuroscience and that's where athletes really struggle It's like I know you can almost zoom out deck.
I know what's happening to me right now I'm losing confidence because I made two bad plays in a row and I know that I can turn this around But I have this feeling in my body I'm running hot and I'm ruminating and I can't get out of it.
That's like real biochemical takeover.
There's science behind that So there are also techniques that you can do Breathing, you know actually getting an ice towel on your neck to like shift the chemistry that's happening in your body your body actually is getting hot when you're getting angry and And I found that those tactics actually resemble
a lot of in basketball when you get on the free throw line You go through your routine that is meditative.
It's a reset for Everything that's happened up to that point so you can just put the ball in the hoop from close range Which you're tending to be really good at if you're at the NBA level I want to come back to MJ and sort of competitiveness and getting cut like where does competitiveness come from?
It seems to cut a lot of people.
I mean Tom Brady might be the counterexample to this but you know, it seems to come from anger in a lot of people or I mean even Brady a huge chip on his shoulder, right like Gets to Michigan can't even you know start Drew Henson comes in He's like switching duties with him Like talk to me about where that drive
comes from for you and where you see it come from for other people I don't think that it comes from anger because I think Operating with anger Isn't the best path and if you look at best in class in theory operating from anger Is like I I have a hard time thinking that that was the source I do think
that mentally elevating doubt and fear is probably The better way to describe How these top athletes think they're they're they're fear motivated fear of not being the best fear of losing and and fear of not performing well It's a huge motivator and so I think that that's probably it versus anger And
I think that that can come from a number of things comes from the way that we're raised product of our environment Socioeconomic disparity from athlete to athlete, you know, again, like all things that differ from one person to the next And then I think there's I think there's gene pool as well whether
you're a You know a descendant from A conqueror or an emperor like gangus khan or not I think that's a crazy theory, but like that that like I think that that conquering spirit performs quite well in sport Where did yours come from?
I think it's probably a combination of kind of like the the rabble family tree coming over from lebanon as immigrants and uh, the work ethic of My great grandparents my grandparents into my father that was demonstrated To me as as a kid, uh all the way through to today the the fear -based motivation Really
began to trigger for me in that High school kind of phase two that I'd mentioned and so it I think it began to form as I started tasting success Because success was so good and failure was so bad um that I uh I really wanted to to skew toward the former as much as possible And and that was binary for me
because in sport you can block out everything else in life And um, and so it's it's like a breeding ground for for that type of motivation Uh, so that's where I think it was a combination of of having supreme work ethic bestowed upon me from my family heritage uh, you know blessed with strong athletic
genes and I celebrate the notion that I have performed beyond my Probably like my projected capabilities, you know when my younger self may may have taken offense to it Like what does that mean?
I'm not as good of an athlete as I think I am but I think that we should all feel Good about our lives if we out Kick our coverage or punch above our weight class Well one of the challenges in a team sport is that you're sort of defined by your wins, right?
And and the greatest players Get paid the most and they also have to mesh with their teammates How do you think about contracts that sort of incentivize individual success and not team success?
as a player Uh being on the team and the best in the league but also As an owner of a league and trying to create the best product on the field I mean, it's it's a huge dilemma in sports and teams and ownership groups do it differently but I I totally see the the paradox of incentivizing why receivers
based on number of catches and touchdowns scored and then trying to address the sideline issues of the quarterback not throwing to them and then you know Having a temper tantrum like you get you understand it And then it's distracting to the overarching goal of the team, which is winning I think the patriots
do a really good job of building incentive incentives around starting and playing in games And they don't incentivize based off of number of catches or touchdowns or yards passed So you can still build an incentive structure to performance, which is I don't know the business behind the scenes and what agents
are going to want to push for so as an athlete being represented by Management like you want them to create best in class terms in your contract And then you walk away and you go.
Well, these might be at odds with the team So that's just pro sports and and frankly, there's that in business too sales figures within your bd org Are incentivized and you want the entire sales team to collaborate and share on deals and share contacts and so on so forth So that's where like good managers
and good leadership comes in whether it's the head coach assistant coach is to You know your your executive team Down and like building a really strong culture so that you celebrate individual performance, but individuals widely recognize that Their success contributes to the companies or the teams
Talk to me a little bit about what it means to be a captain of a team Like leading a team as a player The well the person you should interview who's best suited for this is sam walker who wrote the captain's class and he's he studied the best teams and dynasties in the world, and he'll tell you that uh
the best captains are most responsible For the success of dynasties and the best teams in in professional sports history around the globe So he ran this study around the best teams ever Most championships dynasties in eras across sport across gender And he came down to like 10 teams and he found uh,
he found something He wasn't looking for which was a singular captain across each of those teams.
That was a water bottle carrier which was often Not the person responsible for top performance And he references pele for example that never had or was never given the responsibility to captain brazil because they always viewed it as like Why give him that extra responsibility when he's got enough?
Pressure he's got to score three goals a game like let's get out of his way.
Let's get out of his way Yeah, it doesn't mean you're the best player.
Yeah, and I I think like western culture gets it wrong in sports for that for that reason like I grew up in a system where best player was captain and we should think critically around who is best to be captain Where you're leading the team you're empathizing with the team You're bridging the comms
from the coaches to the teams in some cases teams to coach gm And that requires a lot of time and a lot of individual and group conversation and time must not be Because time is at a premium when it comes to pro sports and individual performance and all the stuff we just talked about It's it's a really
important question because your team's success relies on your choice for captain I want to switch gears a little bit and get into a little bit more personal questions if you're okay with that Sure.
What have you struggled with in life?
A lot I struggle every day um, so there's not one thing I can think about the first the first word that came to mind was balance and I I've thought a lot about it.
I spent a lot of time around balance.
So what does that mean to you?
Well, it means that like happiness there isn't a moment or a time in your life where or or a Place to be where you'll feel more balanced than you do now.
I think the perspective At least that I subscribe to around balance and happiness.
It's it's more of the frequency of those moments small moments It gets you feeling whole and the intensity of one You win a championship.
It's amazing, but it's just actually just not as great as uh, it's led up to be And most athletes and coaches like a day or a week later like okay onto the next one.
So it's it's a frequency of moments of happiness the frequency of moments of feeling balanced and secure And frequency meaning that there are a lot of moments where there isn't but if you can get more than half Then that's a good place to be so I think where I struggle with the most probably just Talking
this out is um is dealing with the lows and knowing that there's always going to be the other side of it If you continue to persevere when do you feel the greatest sense of inner peace in the morning?
I think before before the day starts And then sometimes mid morning after the day has started and I get a break.
That's probably like The time where I feel the most inner peace.
Are you alone? Typically, yes, and it doesn't matter where you are like in nature in your car.
It's just that inner like you're alone inner peace That's right It's it's the reset the start of a day You know sleep is is really important In in that regard And it doesn't happen every morning because there's sometimes where you wake up with your head on fire with a bunch of stuff to do But in in those
moments where you do have time and space and using it wisely Uh, that's where I have the most inner peace When are you most likely to lose control of your thoughts pretty regularly actually I struggle with ADHD in today's technological world there are There are things happening to me not just in my
own head, but Around me with hardware That distracts me.
It's it's a big challenge of mine is is um is being present um and then the flip side embracing some of the benefits of The way that my mind tends to work which shoots off and sometimes it does in directions at the same time Helps me solve For problems that I think are multi -dimensional or extract So
it's it's again that balance of What got me here?
uh is also Making me feel this way and so let me use the strengths and also acknowledge the weaknesses and Care for those and help cure those It's so like ADHD in in society is so strange to me because we tend to focus only on the weaknesses without the Corresponding advantages that you you gain from that.
Yeah. Oh, no doubt.
I so I grew up with learning differences and um I believe that my learning differences ended up being a gift Because the way that i've had to learn in a traditional education model Which is very linear was almost through rnd like a and and course of action and in some cases like acting out A history
lesson helped me retain the information and so schools that specialize in educating children with learning differences whether it's Somewhere on the spectrum to dyslexia to ADHD to entroid processing disorder I think they actually get it right And it's led to a very entrepreneurial environment for me
Uh where I I actually love to problem solve and I like to question the status quo Even like the the quick snare at like I retired and you know, maybe i'll come back Is a challenge to the status quo like why in sports?
If you if you want to take a break, do you do you have to like end it all?
Well, it's just because it's all it is a commoditized business athletes are commoditized However, like it just doesn't need to be that way Like gronkowski needed two and a half seasons to heal and now he's playing great again.
Yeah, and i'm not for the record I'm not planning to come out of retirement, but I do think that the system's arcane And it's worth talking about so so that i'm constantly and I think it's because of the way that my brain functions constantly challenging status quo What are you afraid of?
I'm fearfully motivated on the field.
I think fear kicks in In a lot of other aspects of life I feel that it is more unhealthy Than than motivating i'm not afraid of Anything at the moment but i've spent seven years in therapy.
I do weekly therapy I think that I have the mammoths on my shoulders That that we all do critical negative self -talk, etc What therapy does is is just kind of like dissipate?
A lot of that or lower the volume and gives you perspective that like Those mammoths never go away The goal is to actually just shrink them in size And then I think helps with fear of one thing or another What habits are you trying to break right now?
Phone habit maybe some caffeine kicks Critical self -talk Those types of things.
What are you most stressed?
I'll stick with time and space Usually like this the three to five o 'clock range in the afternoon Um, because I never get everything done In a day never And I think that's just that's okay.
It's called entrepreneurship And I i'm at this stage of my life.
I'm really trying to explore relationships more and the enjoyment of life more which conflicts with you know, 80 hour work weeks, so That like bottleneck is at three to five p .m range because I don't stop work at five But like you start thinking all right if I need to get out of here by six or seven
I've got to start jamming now And then and then looking at a calendar from time to time where there's 12 or 13 meetings in a day Then you're like fuck This is going to be a stressful one.
What's most important to remind yourself in those moments when you're feeling that stress Um that there are tactics to get out of it.
I mentioned. Um You know meditation breathing accessing Uh cold ice.
Yeah, that was an interesting one.
You mentioned putting cold ice around your neck, right?
So so similar to schools that specialize in educating children with learning differences, um, I think that certain therapy that is focused on working with Certain people on the dsm call it it's it's actually like really good therapy for anyone So so example is dialectical behavioral therapy.
It's called dbt It is a process often worked through with people with personality disorders Um, but it's very tactical Because people with personality disorders are often dealing with disassociation um, but the difference between personality disorder and somebody doesn't at least from a prescription standpoint
Non -medical is is like we have the same thoughts.
We just are able to step away from it It's that critical inner voice.
I was just mentioning someone who experiences this association has that same thought that we do and then it becomes a reality so dbt Uh will give tactics to stepping out of it.
One of them is changing your body temperature So like putting your hand in the freezer or like having having an ice pack and just cooling off your head taking a walk um and uh You know meditating things like that.
What does a walk do reactivates your your biochemistry and your body?
It's like begins to release endorphins, which helps shift some of that mindset some of the most stimulating and I think Breakthrough thoughts that mike and I have are on hikes Yeah, I I find it's a great way to think and reflect and also just generate new ideas.
I love walking meetings It feels it feels so much healthier and just looser and more natural Yeah, the only thing you have to be careful of is meetings running long and then all of a sudden you're you're missing others I was there during koban.
I would take most of my meetings walking with headphones in and then I found out I was bumping up against other meetings, so I had to Be more thoughtful.
What what keeps you up at night?
Um, fortunately not much.
I i've uh I can sleep really well.
It's it's a benefit.
Um, Let's just say I can go to sleep really well.
Oh, you don't stay asleep.
I don't stay asleep So maybe the question is like what keeps you from sleeping?
Do you have the entrepreneur's curse of like waking up at 4 a .m Or 3 a .m and just being ready to go Literally, you should have stopped at 4 a .m Like I did it this morning.
I did the morning like I can count on waking up at 4 a .m Almost every day and I think it's for different reasons, but in different moments Uh right now a lot is going on in my life because i've retired i'm bicoastal In a big moment for our business in transitioning from year three to four So i'm having
trouble staying asleep, but going to sleep again has never been an issue Luckily, what are you most optimistic about?
Uh the future of our business right now i'm really optimistic about Where the pll is going and the people that we have here the talent It's not just in the workforce, but on the field Um, it's what I spend most of my time thinking about is is uh, is our business that we're building and final question I
always try to end with the same question, but what do you want other people to say about you?
Uh when you're no longer here Man that's that's really difficult.
It's like writing your own obituary.
Um I think that uh, the one word comes to mind it's impact um and impact Fill in the blank, but I hope to have an impact on the next generation Impact on the current current generation.
I just want to call it impact on people that I know uh and people that I Share an experience with that that to me is is uh at the highest level what we're hoping to do in business relationships interactions of all sorts It's a great place to end this thank you so much paul.
Yeah. Thanks for having me.
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