#1048 - Trevor Wallace - Autism is the New Stolen Valor | Modern Wisdom

That's really, how do I, how do I look?

Cool.

Silence.

All right.

Does anybody give 19 people on set and everyone's like, I don't want to tell him it looks like shit.

Yeah.

See, there we go.

Look at this.

Yes, dude.

Is that better?

See, now this is the problem.

Now that you've asked for feedback, all that you've got is like neuroticism and judgment.

Okay.

Yeah.

And can you write some better jokes on my outfit?

Trevor Wallace, welcome to the show.

Hey, thanks for having me, Chris.

Vogue published an article saying having a boyfriend is embarrassing now.

I don't have one.

I figured.

Meanwhile, men are on dating apps saying that they're looking for a slightly autistic woman.

Swaths of men saying they want a girl with a touch of the tism.

Okay, I just want the touch.

I don't even care about the tism.

You know what I mean?

Like, whatever they bring to the table.

Well, you know what it is?

Autistic women, like, From my experience, they're just passionate.

They're just like, I just, that's all I've ever wanted.

Dating somebody, somebody who's passionate about something, whether it's a career or or or, you know uh, trains.

Whatever you're passionate on, I'm passionate for you.

Well, you were saying that about, uh, hot girls that are just good at anything, chess or DJing or crochet stitching or something.

That that is a niche.

Yeah.

That, and you're right as well.

I think we like anybody that really loves.

I just want you to love something.

Yeah.

I don't care what your career is.

Just love it.

Can that be you?

Can there something be you?

What if that, what if you are their hobby?

That part of it?

Sure.

A part of it.

Sure.

But like I've been in relationships where somebody didn't have that, that that void they wanted to fill of like love, and you, you almost feel guilty if you're, if you're too passionate.

I would come home from like a show or filming something and i had so much fun on this set or filming and i love it.

And then they're like oh, that's nice.

And you're like, here we go again.

I mean, can we get her a zin or something like perk up, like what are we?

So you almost feel guilty.

So like i just want to come home and share a communal experience where you're like How was your day?

Oh, I love that.

I got to do blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

I love that.

I get to do this.

So I've I found that uh, just incredible where you can just both share and not feel this like weird one-sided guilt that I'm doing a thing.

You don't have a thing to do.

Yeah.

Or a thing to do, but they hate it.

It's like so many people hate their job, which is totally fine.

Like so many jobs suck.

But it kind of puts a dampening on the mood.

If like, i'm happy with what i'm doing, then they're like oh, that's cool.

Well, my day, oh god.

I wonder whether that's used.

I wonder whether that's most people that it's kind of tough because not everyone has the the luxury of being able to do a job that they love, but Pretty much everybody does have the luxury of being able to get a hobby or an interest or a passion that they love.

That's the other side of it.

So many people hate their job.

I have plenty of jobs that I hated.

I used to work in a kiosk inside of a Costco.

I wanted to unalive myself every day, but the chicken apple sausages sample saved me every single day.

Okay.

So I've had those jobs where I hated.

But when I was at that job I would write standup and that would like make me get through the day.

Like that would excite me.

So I'd just find those things that would excite me through it.

So back to autism, I think, um, whatever your passion is, just be passionate about it.

I've I've, I've had, I've dated people who have had like uh, they've worked in like like their own, like they make their own clothes or their own thing.

And I'm like, I'm so happy for that.

And when they show me a t-shirt or something where they stitched a pocket on in the pocket, a denim shirt, is it going to sell?

No, but she loves it.

And that's what I love.

Yeah.

It's the, some of the feedback on the autistic dating thing.

It's possible that some of these men are autistic themselves and merely looking for a like-minded partner, but it's more likely that swaths of them are fetishizing neurodivergence.

Autistic sex educator, Millie Evans.

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

What is her title?

Autistic sex educator.

Let's check her hard drive.

How do you get into that field?

How do you go to NYU and be like, okay, hold on.

Speaking of trains, let's talk about how they're running them.

It's also hard to talk about autism when there's so many cars around me right now.

This is the right location to do it.

Yeah, you got Mater from Cars behind you.

You got everything in here is wood if I was teed up. which I might be.

I have ADHD, I think.

I don't know.

I did try to take an autism test one day, but it's too many questions.

And I think that's my answer.

I see.

Well look, autistic sex educator the way that that's framed.

Are you somebody who educates autistic people about sex?

Or are you somebody who is autistic that is a sex educator?

That one of my friends is the number one incel researcher on the planet.

And he had to rechange the way that he introduced himself, as I'm the number one researcher of incels on the planet.

Dude, there's too many jobs.

I'm retracting.

But he loves it.

He loves it.

There we go.

He just loves it.

So he's the number one incel.

Number one researcher of incels.

Which makes him an incel.

No, I think, well, research is me-search in many ways.

I like that.

I'm sorry, I don't mean to come after a friend.

I've met his girlfriend.

He seems to be slinging it around and he's irish, so that helps, but anyway yeah, autistic sex educator, millie evans has been on dating apps since she was 18.

She says it is genuinely wild how often she sees references to autism on people's profiles.

I'd like to have a conversation with these people to understand what they're hoping to achieve.

She told dazed i i i also i feel bad for people who are generally autistic right now because i think there's a lot of stolen valor out there, think there's a lot of people who are kind of just like claiming it because they want to like, have something.

Like growing up, i wanted to be different.

So bad.

In my classroom i told people i was colorblind because i want, i wanted something different about me.

Like a teacher would literally point at something blue and i'd be like what is that gray?

Like i would like pretend that was your personality.

Yeah, i wanted to be, i wanted to have a thing, and i think there is so many people who generally have struggles every day about autism and there's some people who are just like i.

Just maybe i'm just autistic.

No no, that's.

You're just not you're you're.

You're using that as a cop out.

Like you're using that as like a, oh, well, I don't know.

I'm just like, it's not, there's a lot of undiagnosed autism, which isn't really diagnosed.

I can't remember who it was that said this to me, but they said like most mental health maladies are both underdiagnosed and overdiagnosed at the same time.

There's people who don't have it saying they do.

And there's people who do have it that don't know that they do.

And like those two groups don't, the Venn diagram isn't actually that big of how much crossover.

Yeah.

So I feel like it's almost like a cop out sometimes, but like if you generally, if you do have it, then more power to you.

But I, I, that's interesting.

People are putting it on dating apps.

I didn't.

I mean with love on the spectrum being so big.

They're like, They're like.

This is my end.

I do love Love on the Spectrum.

That's one of my favorite shows ever.

It's unreal.

But like the passion behind anybody on that show is like, oh, I only care about dragons.

Like, well, what about a girlfriend?

They're like, you're not a dragon.

Shut up.

And then the mom has to be like, no, you need to get married.

And then the guy would be like, well, does she like dragons?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

James is a great guy on there.

They all have swords.

And dude, they're making alcohol drinks.

They're driving cars.

I'm like, dude, these guys are living the life.

Not that I didn't think they couldn't do either of those, but a little bit.

But I mean, I loved their passion behind it.

One of the interesting lines on this was How did we get to a stage where neurotypical men feel comfortable enough to make jokes about wanting an autistic girlfriend on apps like Hinge?

So you have a problem here.

If you said, I like autistic girls, that's you fetishizing neurodivergence.

But if you also put no autists, that's you being exclusionary.

That's racism right there.

I don't know.

I think you're just not allowed to really have an opinion on it.

It's like if you're pro, if you say I like big girls, you're fetishizing like fat.

And if you say like no fatties.

Well, you're saying you're Drake.

There it is.

You just did a Toronto show.

That's a callback.

But it was his birthday the night that we were there.

Oh, wow.

It was my show.

Drake's thing and vibes cartel, all on the same weekend, the night before the blue jays play the biggest i mean you know some say the biggest weekend that toronto's ever had.

It is, and you still sold it out.

Yep, still sold it.

That's beautiful.

Thankfully, i listed it a long time before any of that, right before they got in the world series.

Of course, i really wanted to go to drake's birthday or vibes cartel or the world series, fucking tickets to go see chris williamson.

I might as well get my money's worth anyways, if you have, What were you saying?

You're saying if you only like one thing.

Basically, if you say that this is a preference of mine, you often get accused of fetishizing.

What that thing is.

And if you say that you don't want that thing, then you're being exclusionary.

Right.

Like.

The best example of this is the body positivity stuff, which is like I like big girls, is fetishizing fat, but no fatties.

Is you excluding people who are like other, bigger size?

It's really hard to win.

So what do you just play the middle or you just don't?

Well, I don't know.

I mean, I think that you can't win.

I think ultimately, ultimately you can't win.

Initially jokes about tism riz started as a social media trend.

Rizom with the tism.

Yeah, I've seen that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Within the neurodivergent community to describe how their traits have garmed their romantic interests.

I think that you might be onto something with the love on the spectrum.

I think that that might be well.

Honestly, you watch a show and they find such love that like, maybe there's people watching that who resonate with them a little bit, where they go like Oh I'm awkward and shy, and dates too.

Am I autistic?

You know, it's, it's not a one for one.

And then I was saying like, that's cultural approach.

Like neurodivergent cultural appropriation, it was just the meme community has taken over it and it's like risen with the tism is a funny line, but like there's also people out there who are severely autistic and the thought of a date makes them panic and sweat.

But then there's a guy or a girl on hinge being like oh, i'm nervous, i can't make eye contact.

No, you're just chronically online and you don't have human contact interactions often.

Yeah, you haven't seen a person in a few months right, i mean, i I just think that the meme community has kind of taken over.

This is like the first, and what would you call autism?

Because it's not a disease.

What would you say?

This is like the first, what would you?

It's like a neurodivergent profile.

But it's like kind of the first human.

Condition.

Condition that has been really memed.

And everyone's like.

People aren't doing the same thing with HIV.

Correct.

Yeah.

Yeah, what would that be?

Risen with the Hivum?

Yeah, I was trying to think.

Get laid with the AIDS?

I don't know.

Charlie Sheen seems to be doing pretty well.

Yeah.

He's crushing it.

He's doing great.

Did you watch that documentary with him?

I did.

Dude.

I thought that was one of the best things that I've seen.

That story at the very beginning, where he's absolutely hammered and the pilot the pilot hey, come and sit down, and wouldn't it be funny if i put your uniform on?

Wouldn't it be funny if i did?

It's like honestly, he was one step away from.

Wouldn't it be funny if we just, like you know, blew each other?

Oh, i thought i thought you're going a different direction.

I thought you're going more new york with that.

But um yeah, one thing i yeah.

I mean, like watching that documentary was so cool.

I love watching uh, just the upbringing of people's success stories.

I used to, in college, go on every famous person I admired's Wikipedia and I would just be like, how did they get from A to B to C to D?

How did they become who they are?

And I'd be fascinated.

So seeing all this and finding out that Charlie Sheen was a nepo baby blew my mind.

I'm like, oh, your dad was a famous actor?

You're best friends with.

You know the guy growing up dude, you had no choice but to be an actor Sean Penn, Sean Penn.

Yeah.

So, but I, I mean, all bits aside, I thought it was really cool.

Just like watching his upbringing and how he got, like what, what he got offered karate kid or something.

Yeah.

And he'd already made some commitment.

Oh, you've got to stick to your word with this thing.

And I don't know.

I mean, Charlie Sheen is a really good example of someone who, I mean he says it himself, basically.

He learned the lesson that actions don't have consequences.

That he can kind of implode, torpedo the situation and usually end up not only landing on his feet, but landing on his feet like three fucking levels higher than he was previously.

Yeah, he was failing forward in a lot of this.

Correct.

Where...

And that's what all of his co-stars would say.

It's like he would get on this like crazy rehab path, bounce back and then come back even more famous than ever.

I'm thinking about picking up Kratom is what I'm trying to say.

You know, I feel like I'm like, you know, I need- Springboard my career.

Yeah, I need something.

How do I sell at Madison Square Garden?

Let me get a needle.

There's gotta be one in this garage.

Yeah, I just think it's fascinating seeing somebody who, how hard do people work?

Like you know you would, how obsessive you are about bits and and and, drilling your sets and working.

And then we're going to, you know, release it at this date and it's social campaign to build up and do all the rest of this stuff in a desperate attempt to try and gain little 1 here and now, even half percent, you know like, if you think, how many shows would you reckon that you do it, including spots, would you do over a 12 month period, from like special to special?

Oh, damn.

200, 300.

I mean, just this past week, I did nine sets.

And that was over two nights.

Five shows one night, four shows on Saturday.

Tuesday, five Saturday four, which I'm fortunate enough to be able to do because all the comedy clubs in LA are incredible.

And um, I've just been working at it for a decade and they're, you know, they're like all right cool, you're one of our regulars.

Yeah, whenever you need we got you.

Here's this, so i can kind of time it out where i'm doing a show of the laugh factor, then i go to the comedy store, then i go to the improv, then back to laugh factor for the late show and it's like i've got it all dialed in.

But i love doing that.

I i say the sets in town are like gym reps and then on the road is when you're out there doing the iron man and all that.

So um, this is in a year.

I mean, I really wish I had an answer.

It could be like 500.

It could be more than 500.

Yeah.

Almost certainly would be if you're doing this.

There's definitely more than there is days in the year.

Right.

Okay.

So let's, let's say that you do like 400, right?

You can keep it on a low.

So, and you need to get 60 minutes by the end of the year.

So you're talking about like not far off.

What's that?

Like 15 seconds a night is what you're developing.

Oh, I see what you're saying.

Right.

So it's such a tiny proportion of the overall thing.

Each individual rep contributes this like weenie, weenie, weenie, weenie bit.

And then you have somebody like Charlie Sheen, who just seems to, maybe by virtue of his talent or time.

I don't think it's timing because you'd say, oh, you know, he timed the market.

It's coincidence, whatever.

You can't do that for a whole career.

You can't write off fluke and chance and coincidence forever.

Four decade, five decade career, like that's impossible.

So I'm just I'm kind of fascinated by people who, if you were to take the headlines of how they've behaved, should not have ended up being particularly successful like you should have.

Yeah, kamikaze harry carried your own career like seven times over by the age of 40.

I think it's buzz meets talent, the buzz of the headlines, where you're like who is this guy?

Because if you see he's out of rehab, you're gonna want to watch his first show back, you're gonna want to watch the first episode.

Be like dude, how is this guy?

And then you flip it on and he's an incredible actor and you're like oh, i guess you still got it.

And then it's rotation of always being in the news, whether it's for partying too hard, whether it's for dating somebody who's too famous or going to rehab.

That first episode out he's.

The more you're in the headlines, the more your name is just relevant.

And then when that show or the movie drops, you're like, dude, it's fucking Charlie Sheen.

He's a party.

I got to watch this guy.

So it's kind of like he's staying relevant, even on the screens and off the screens.

And you're just fascinated by his life.

There's certain people that I look forward to. watching their instagram stories because i know they're clinically insane and i go this is going to be good liver king uh i don't follow him anymore yeah i don't know if i ever did i haven't for a while it's been a couple of years since i watched it he made me uncomfortable but oh dude i mean yeah he he i would imagine has good stories well have you seen him recently it's like a descent into what appears to be meth fueled like insanity absolute insanity okay he's still going he's still like because he went to austin he got arrested for bringing a gun saying he was going to fight joe rogan and then yeah it it's it's actually kind of uncomfortable it's like uncomfortable but that's kind of the charlie sheen approach because that first podcast back he did yeah so but he's also yeah what you saw with charlie that i think is like a really cool lesson here it worked as long as ultimately the thing that he did was good.

But then when he did the live tour, that was a mess and he was still a mess and he was in the middle of his Tiger Bloods, like you know winning era and they tracked him around that outside of the shows.

I'm sure that some people enjoyed it, right?

Because they just wanted to be in the aura of Charlie Sheen.

But a lot of people outside, like that was the worst thing I've ever seen in my life.

That was a total catastrophe.

You wasted money, overpriced, underdelivered.

So this lesson that I've seen for ages is people will forgive pretty much anything as long as you're still good at the main thing that you do.

If Kanye drops an absolute fucking slammer of a next album, people will still listen to it.

And in a weird way, it kind of forgives tons of the sins that he's committed.

Does that make sense?

Yeah.

Whereas if he falls off all of the criticism personally privately uh, culturally gets legitimized, stays at the top.

Yes.

Through his like lack of professional success.

But I think we just, we revere talent and success so much.

Yeah.

That we're just happy to forgive people.

Pretty much anything as long as someone is kind of good at what they do.

Yeah.

I mean, I, as a man who put a Kanye song on my Spotify recently, it doesn't feel good.

It doesn't feel, but you know, he's also just like clinically like insane.

Like that's, I don't like when the media will like film him and be like, uh, Kanye crashed.

I'm like, yeah, he's fucking off the rocker.

He's in 2007.

Correct.

Britney scene with a new haircut.

She's schizophrenic.

She shaved her head and she has an umbrella.

It's 98 degrees outside.

Like, I don't like when news articles post that, like, like it's, Like, they're not insane.

Like, they're like, oh, Kanye's having a weird day.

He's fucked in the head.

Yeah.

It's just like it's crazy that we just film everybody doing this and then like who's actually helping these people?

That's a good point.

Because if it was somebody well, I mean I was going to say if it was somebody that was going through a drug addiction, that wouldn't be tracked.

But then you look at Kate Moss, you look at Pete Doherty from back in the day, you look at Amy Winehouse.

Hmm.

Um, the downfall of talented people, the potential downfall, and basically kind of like watching it a car go toward another car and going like are they going to hit, is that going to happen, or are they going to be able to miss it and then turn around and then they go again and then Whoa, you can fix them.

So on and so forth.

It is more amusing to watch and listen.

There's thousands of people that probably try to help Kanye on a day-to-day basis, but it to your point.

It is more interesting to watch somebody like the the car crash analogy.

You're like, are they going to land this plane?

Are they going to?

Is Kanye going to figure this one out, or is he going to release a new album and it's all in German.

Featuring Elon Musk.

You've, have you interviewed Elon?

Uh, no, not yet.

Um, we considered, we were talking to his team a little while ago.

I think he's had a busy period of the last 12 months.

Yeah.

He's, Naming his kids QR codes and shit.

Listen, I'm Jewish, so those two guys are oppressing my people.

Well, you say that, but you added him to your Spotify.

We should cut to an ad.

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Dude, do you tried to fastball me that?

That was down the plate and i've just shohei otani did.

I've been drinking ag1 for as long as i can remember.

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I have got my mom to start taking it, my dad to start taking it and all of my friends as well, and if i found anything better i would switch, but i haven't.

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Stop throwing it the mic, See.

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Thank you.

But, you know, Kanye was only a feature on the song.

It wasn't his full.

It was his song with Rick Ross, Devil in a New Dress.

I mean, have you heard this song?

Rick Ross's verse carries the whole thing.

Okay.

And back from the commercial break.

I don't care.

Keep it all in.

Pull the fucking ejector seat button.

I don't care.

Keep it in.

I need to talk about how much you drink Celsius.

Let's talk about it.

Yeah, it's too much.

Do i drink a lot of it?

You know, you talk about it.

It's your go-to, it's like the canonical i'm.

I need caffeine, i talk about this drink, drink.

Uh, we got a cease and desist from a large energy company.

Um, because of something that my co-founder said for the co-founder for this thing.

Um, what did they say?

Uh, they said that we made wings.

Uh, they may have said that.

What he said was this and we have this.

It's printed off and framed.

As is seen in Exhibit 932.

Mr Smith said that our clients drink quote tastes like piss and is quote consumed by chronic masturbators.

Are we still talking about the incel guy?

Anyway, I want to get you off, please.

Yeah, send me, send me these.

Yeah, you need more, you need something.

Um yeah celsius, i mean, it's just like the energy during game is.

I mean dude they're, they're super charging, they're spiking panera lemonades.

What's that panera?

Do you know panera bread?

You don't know panera bread?

Holy shit, you're rich.

Panera bread is like uh, french subway, do you know?

I went into one Panera so they put out this like lemonade, a double-charged lemonade.

It has 400 milligrams of caffeine.

Okay.

Was this something that killed kids?

Yes, yes, yes.

I have seen this.

I don't know if it was kids, but it did kill two people.

Okay.

Which— That's America.

Correct.

I mean, they were going to die from that broccoli cheddar cheese soup anyways.

And to the families of those people, I'm sorry, but, I mean—

I think they got a refill.

I think that's where it was.

You could have unlimited refill.

So they had like 800 milligrams.

I believe so.

Well, it shows it's tasty.

Yeah.

If you're going to consume two big gulps of that.

Also, not rich.

British.

There's a difference.

Okay.

We have Greggs.

Are you familiar with Greggs?

Who?

Greggs.

What is that?

Greg's is a bakery in the UK.

It makes probably the best sausage rolls on the planet, some may say.

Is there a competition for that?

Kind of.

The UK is basically split into North and South.

North is Greg's, South is Pret-a-Manger.

And that's kind of like the... I think Pret-a-Manger is in this drink.

Okay, so there's a pig in a blanket?

That's what we call it in America.

They do that sort of stuff.

Sausage roll would be wrapped in pastry rather than like...

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

And it's a sausage.

Yes.

I give her the name.

Yeah.

Okay.

But, uh, what's that?

Panera bread.

But like the energy I mean.

I remember when Red Bull came out it was like revolutionary in sixth grade.

This kid, Josh Fleming took a sip of one at a bowling alley.

And I remember he took one sip and started sprinting.

Like it was very performative and we're all in sixth grade.

We were like, why is this crazy amounts of caffeine?

And you thought he was black because you're colorblind.

I was colorblind and he, fun fact is Korean, but he is mixed.

I believe his dad is black, but we thought 98 grams of caffeine was crazy.

And now Celsius is 200, but now there's drinks out there with like 300 and 400, and it's What's the barometer?

I think a cup of coffee is like 120.

We need to ask Huberman.

Huberman's in later on.

We can ask him.

Oh, you're going from me to Huberman.

That's great.

Yeah, great.

I mean, the amount of brain cells.

You're losing a bunch of brain cells and you're gaining it back with Huberman.

Then you're leaving this studio leveled.

You seem like a pretty positive guy overall.

I think.

I'd say so.

I mean, I don't know how much of it is, you know, comedic persona versus sort of genuine disposition.

Least in my experience, like having spent a good bit of time around comedians most, most people's comedic personas are just kind of like a tuned up version of who they are.

Yeah, very few of them are a total u-turn, like someone who's crazy, extroverted and outgoing on stage but is like doesn't have any of that energy internally, because i i don't think that the depth of insight i don't think that people would be able to get that.

Like jimmy carr is a great example of this.

Like jimmy is just more jimmy on stage and less jimmy when he's in private.

Um, but i see a good bit of sort of cynicism on the internet and a good few reasons to be cynical.

There's lots of stuff that's hard and fucking.

People have got bullshit jobs and neurodivergence and the world's going to shit and all this stuff.

I'm interested in why that positivity, or like how you combat cynicism, even in the world of comedy.

Like there's a lot of cynicism backbiting, like drama stuff.

And I just think it's a, like that kind of resilience seems to be pretty good for you.

As long as I'm working, I'm pretty happy.

I, I find happiness in work.

I find happiness in being productive.

Um, Where I get down in my head is when all this work I'm doing feels like it's for nothing.

When I hit a streak and there's a streak of videos that are all eating shit and I'm going.

But I'm working so hard and it's not doing well.

That's when I can really.

That's when my like um, you know, toxic trade is.

I hone in only on that week.

I don't look at anything else I've done.

I don't look at any other accomplishments or any other videos I go, but these four videos in the past week ate shit.

Does that mean I'm shit?

And I get super in my head about that.

But but now it's like, and kind of, catch that and go okay well, you're probably overworked because this didn't bother you in the past.

It's like, okay, well, when was the last time I got any exercise?

When was I someone to the gym?

When I, when did I do anything for myself to get out of this rut?

So that's when I can kind of like catch it.

But as far as positivity, it's like there's just I just love what I do so much that by doing this it's I'm living my dream every day.

So it's like, why wouldn't I be happy?

The times I get mad is when I'm on some bullshit general meeting with Tubi and they're like so what's your show idea?

Fuck you.

How about that?

Cause it's not going to happen.

We're going to, I'm going to pitch a show.

You're going to give your shit notes.

I'm going to give my notes.

And then it just stays in this rut for hours.

I love the internet because I can have an idea right now.

I can leave here, film it, upload it, connect my people.

And like, there's no middle ground.

There's no gatekeeper.

No, there's so many gatekeepers in, in, uh, the industry.

And I just feel like creativity is a rare feeling and you have to strike on it when it hits.

And, and what's funny today is, Might not be funny tomorrow.

Might not be funny in a year.

Might not be funny in five years, 10 years, whatever it is.

So when creativity hits, it's a blessing and you can't block it.

You can't like, if you're feeling creative, make that video.

If you're, if you don't be like, well, I'll make it tomorrow morning.

We have more free time.

It's like no cause, you're going to get to the next morning and you're going to be like what was that?

How did I end that again?

What was it?

And you're not going to feel that spark.

So when you're hitting this creativity, just that's like, that's your sign.

That's the creative gods being like, go, go make this, go make this.

And where I found the stress to be is I'm like, Hey guys, I'm feeling this creative energy.

Let's do this thing.

I'm going, well, we can set you up with red tape when you want.

Here's some bureaucracy.

Exactly.

So I don't know how I got on that.

Um, that's perfect.

There's an idea from Naval Ravikant.

He says, inspiration is perishable.

Act on it immediately.

Yeah.

Same thing.

And I've had those moments where I get an idea and I love the idea and I go Oh, I need to shoot this.

I need to shoot this.

And then I sit on it and then you know, i open my phone one day and then somebody makes an idea like that.

I go, damn it, i had that idea, i should.

And then you like want to mess that person.

Dude, i had that idea too.

And they're like okay, you didn't ship it, didn't see it.

Yeah yeah i've, and i've also sat on videos that i didn't edit.

I shot them, i didn't edit them, i didn't get them done.

And then somebody does the same thing and i go oh, i should have, but i didn't.

So one of the most common questions there's a q, a thing at the end of the, the live show, and one of the most common questions that people are asking is something to the effect of I'm 23 and um I'm, I'm working real hard at this job that I do, or this career that I'm in, or this business that I'm building.

Uh, but I know that work-life balance is kind of important and I don't want to.

I don't want to waste all of my time uh, not like being present or like being mindful, or whatever it might be.

And um, One of the issues with that that, I see, is a lot of the people who have a platform like a big enough platform to be able to talk about how they got to the place that they're at.

Let's say it's Rogan or Tom Segura or yourself or whatever.

Most of the guys are a little bit older than you are.

And by that point, they are in the work-life balance mode.

They are talking about, I like to spend time with my kids and this is important.

But that's not how they got there.

Right, right, right, right, right.

So the rule is model the rise, not the result.

Ooh, I like that.

So- Can we put that on a shirt?

Model the rise, not the result.

Because if you ask somebody like, how did you get to where you are?

A lot of the time people talk about what they do now.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Not what they did when they were at your stage.

My point is when people say I'm 23, I'm crushing it at this thing, but I think I should do work-life balance.

I think they're taking the wrong message for the wrong time.

And what you're saying here is You have the freest discipline ever, because it doesn't take any discipline for you to go and do nine spots in two nights.

Yeah.

It's just obsession.

Yeah.

Right.

So if you think about obsession, discipline and motivation.

So motivation is I want to go and do the thing.

Discipline is I tell myself to go and do the thing.

And obsession is I can't not do the thing.

Yeah.

It's like you're being ripped forward by this.

What I'm seeing to try and tie this up fucking big mess I've made up into a bow.

People who are obsessive are basically questioning should I purposefully not use all of this free fuel that I'm getting to try and make some shit happen in the world in order to do the work-life balance thing?

What they don't realize is that obsession will wane over time.

Like you, that is going to be a sort of depreciating fuel source.

I did this is the freest motivation and discipline that you're ever going to get, because you literally can't not do the thing.

So you might as well just completely fucking like send it, take a flamethrower to the candle, like forget burning it at both ends, kind of the same way that you are, because in 10 years time maybe it's going to be tougher for you to like force yourself to do nine sets in two nights.

Well, maybe you can't, maybe you've got restrictions or responsibilities or some other bullshit going on.

Correct.

And you think, fuck, I wish I'd really sent it when it was there, when the fuel source was free.

And also that's when you accumulate the skills that allow you to kind of ride the wave going forward, because you do have to earn your keep.

You've got to accumulate the skills and the talents and the experience.

You go, well, I might as well do that again when it's, freest, easiest, et cetera, et cetera.

So yeah, this obsession thing, obsession, motivation, discipline I've been playing with for a while.

And I think it relates at least a little bit to what you're talking about.

Yeah.

Sorry.

I just heard an airplane and I'm severely autistic.

No, I totally agree.

And I mean as, as I'm a sucker for a motivational podcast quote, I'm a sucker for anything that kind of sparks that.

And the overarching thing you see in a lot of these is like just start.

But So many people go like well, what if it's not my passion?

All right, fuck it.

Don't do it.

Oh, what if I don't like, then don't like try all these things.

The amount of different types of videos I tried before.

I found like what my own voice was very similar to standup.

I think everybody starts standup with their favorite comedians in the back of their head, influencing how they write.

You know, I first started, I thought, I thought I could write like Bill Burr.

I'm like, I'm not a guy from Boston.

I don't, I'm not him.

I'm not, I'm nowhere near anywhere near as good as this guy.

And like, but you watch and you're influenced and then you like chisel away and you go, okay, well now I'm watching more of this guy and then now I'm watching some of her.

And then you like kind of just form.

So over time you find what your passion is.

You find your voice and it's just about the journey.

So, going back to what you were saying, with the rise of it it's like I put everything aside when I was coming up because I couldn't wait to be done with my nine to five.

When I'd be done by nine to five at 5 PM, I would drive to an open mic and go do that.

So weekdays was open mics.

And then Saturday, I'd shoot a sketch.

Sunday, I'd post it.

Or sorry.

Saturday, I'd shoot it.

Sunday, I'd edit.

Monday, I'd post it.

Every week.

That was when it was slower.

This was pre-vertical videos.

This was horizontal.

What platform is this?

YouTube.

Right.

This was like 2017 to 2019.

This was like right before kind of pandemic when everything started taking off vertically.

Vertically, it's a new game.

Like when I got in, one video a week was like good.

That was like fine.

And I was like, whew, one sketch a week.

Easy walk loads.

Dude, now it's like I'll talk to my Instagram or TikTok reps and like, yeah, you should be posting three to four times a day.

That sounds annoying.

That's too much.

So it's a different ballgame getting in now.

But there's also less care about production.

There's less care about... I say that when there's 19 cinema cameras around me.

There's less care...

I think if I posted a clip of you saying something to my iPhone and then just one of these from this camera, there's just as good of a chance that the iPhone I think the iPhone one wins.

It might, I think, but in when people are watching a more long form content, they're going to want this camera.

You don't want the sound, but you know, everything on my page is either shot on an iPhone or like a cinema camera, or like it's always constantly changing all up below the sketch from a ring camera.

And i'm being dead serious because i just want to switch it up.

I just want to try everything.

I'm constantly.

You could just use sora for that.

Apparently, the fucking that's it's getting close.

Yeah, it's getting close.

I've i've tried to use it a few times and it's like i'm such a hands-on guy when it comes to editing that i want to be like do you still edit your own stuff?

No, but i'm just hands-on with it.

Like i meet with my editor of yeah yeah, i meet with my editors a lot and i'm just like Like there'll be times where I'm giving notes over my computer.

My editor lives like 10 minutes from me.

Shout out John, the best guy in the biz.

And I'm like, dude, just come over.

It's 1am.

And we're like, just, just trim that.

We'll just trim that one word right there.

And just, just cause I'm super hands-on with it, which is a blessing and a curse.

I think it slows down production a little bit, because I, because I, I won't post it, because I'm like well, you misspelled this, or or or.

I just I wish it opened on this frame right here.

So some people are like, you know, make your sacrifices and be like, I just posted.

Now I can focus on something else.

But I'm the guy who's up at crack of dawn or like three in the morning like just trying to chisel away at something, because I'm like this is how it should be.

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Winning in the weeds with stuff like that.

It's interesting that you said the sort of dark sides and light sides to that.

It's amazing when it comes to refining a bit down.

There's this great video of Mark Norman talking about the.

I met a girl on that Jewish dating app.

What's it called?

PayPal.

And it's a video of him from when he first has the idea and he sat in his car and then it I don't know what.

I don't think he has a video guy that follows him all the time, but he must've done for this.

And it's him iterating and iterating and iterating.

And he like tried Venmo and he tried like cash app and he tried PayPal and on the timing and everything,

And you watch the.

You know whatever it is, 15 seconds per night change like slowly, incrementally over time.

And, um, that is another type of obsession.

You can't not do it.

I can't not think about this joke.

I can't not think about this podcast.

I can't not think about for me some of the ideas I've got.

I just going to bed trying to fucking get my brain to chill out.

I can't, I'll be laying there, roll over to my notes app.

My eyes are closed because that's part of the obsession.

Yes.

Because I'm like very, very staunch with phone.

Can't be in bedroom.

My solution for this has been I leave my AirPods out of the case on the bedside table next to me and then i put them in and it goes, but i go.

Tomorrow, 10 am, remind me the an unteachable lesson is you should lie in a hammock more or whatever.

But then it tries to transcribe it and i wake up the next day and at least 50 percent of the time it's fucking jibber.

You should lay in a ham cock more.

And you're like is that what they're selling at greg's these days?

I'm like, oh fuck, but anyway that like you're.

You're right and i think um, It's brilliant and is lauded quite rightly so, seeing someone that's a craftsman.

But I love it, yeah.

The guy that owns this place.

It's evident that he really fucking cares about the cars and he's tinkering with them, working on them.

Isn't that fucking cool?

But also, when you try and have that in your private life... No?

Sorry, what was it?

The battery's dead.

Just for the Ferrari.

It was in Ferris Bueller.

I don't know if you know that.

It's mine.

That obsession stuff is great in your professional life but really shit in your personal life.

Awful, it's like i i've told everyone i've ever dated.

I'm like i don't think it's fun dating me because it's like i just love work so much that it like it's hard for me to be really present everything i'm doing, whether even when i'm not working, i'm working.

I'm watching a show, we're at dinner It's like I was at a lunch yesterday with my girlfriend and this high school couple starts arguing next to us.

And I immediately pull up my notes app and I go okay what's, what's the, what's the, what's the, but she's great too.

And she's very funny.

And she's like, also like, okay, what if you write this down?

What if you?

So I'm always on.

But If you see it as not like disrespect of you and you're like dude, this is how his brain works, then I think it's fun.

Then everyone can get in on it.

But she's in on it.

Oh, she's great, yeah.

Or your friends are in on it.

Like, for instance, a couple of my friends that... A few are writers.

I live with one of them, George.

And he'll see shit that's amazing, but just not quite right for him.

And I just get... it must be like going out and partying with Dan Bilzerian back in the day.

The like trickle down effect of being around him.

There's a blast radius of like good shit that he's raised.

I do this story from Winston Churchill.

I can't use it, but it's going to fucking destroy on the pod.

So he'll send me stuff in the same way.

We'll be out at dinner and I'll be, I'm trying to think that I'm trying to work this idea out.

I think, I think there's something that it's like obsession, motivation, discipline.

Oh, well, why don't we, you know, we'll come up with a name for it.

We can do that.

That's sick.

I love it.

But if it's like I should be obsessed over which frame this particular cut needs to be in to make it maximally funny, or whether it's PayPal or Venmo or Cash App, and I need to refine this little piece down.

But if it's trying to like optimize your relationship or pay too much attention, be obsessive about your relationship in a way, that's like Ryan Long taught me this that we love and lord in ourselves, like the attention that we pay and the amount of detail, like the resolution like oh, I'm so locked in.

You want to be able to turn it off when it comes to like your relationship with your parents, but that's not the way it works.

You don't get to compartmentalize.

I feel not like myself when I turn it off, when I'm like being too serious or talking to anybody.

And I'm like, I'm not being my true self.

I'm like, this is boring.

Like when I feel like I have like downplay it, like I had a meeting to write a will like My dad's.

Like you need an estate plan.

You need to write a will.

I mean, I was in that.

I wanted to be like, kill me now.

I don't care.

I'm dead.

I don't give a shit.

The guy's like, well, do you want to be an organ donor?

And there's levels of the organ donor.

They can gouge your eyes out.

I don't care.

I want to upload a video that might bomb.

I just want to be anywhere but here.

And it's so serious and it's so boring.

And I'm just like, is this how you...

There's no fun in this office.

The sterile lighting.

We have a Keurig in the corner.

If I hear another Keurig coffee, I will put a gun in my mouth.

Anybody that takes away from me wanting to be me, I'm like, this is miserable.

This is not what I want to be.

That's why stand-up comedy is the most beautiful form of entertainment in the world.

There's really no limitations on it. you can just be yourself.

And I have to blind myself up there because I don't want you know the thought of.

You know, if I see someone in the front row with their arms crossed, you know, now I'm in my head.

Now it's like chipping away at like being myself, but I just love standup so much because you can just be yourself and you're not like trying to form to like the.

Something where I like hate is like just a small target, like a wedding or just small talk in general.

I'm like, I'm not going to give you my personality.

I'm not, I'm just like, it just feels like so ping pong back and forth.

So boring.

Anything I can do to not be in that.

And whether it's I'm, I'm constantly just talking to myself, because that's where I know I can bounce ideas off myself.

Instead of like talking to some random guy at a wedding, I'm like, Oh, what's funny.

I'm writing down myself.

Cause I can be funny to myself and I can like talk to myself.

It's cool to enjoy the landscape of your own mind and to be like oh, I don't have anything to do on a plane and the wifi is broken.

I love being alone for that reason.

This is cool.

I can actually sit with my thoughts and I know that I'm not going to get distracted and I can do a little bit of

Dude, I come up with the most ideas when I'm just by myself, either in conversation with people, or it's like I usually travel with a few people for shows and whatnot but, like if I'm doing a college gig, I'll just fly out by myself.

It's there's no glitz and glam.

It's like I show up to rowan university in philadelphia by myself.

I do that, i get out of there, but those like 48 hours of traveling by myself, i mean that's what i'm thinking about the most stuff.

Because so much of my day is on meetings or calls or talking to people, doing stuff, giving notes, on editing.

I'm never really truly alone and even when i'm alone at home i'm tired from the full day.

So when i'm just like on an airplane by myself, like you said, and the wi-fi is out or you know, that's when i'm like whoa, i haven't tapped into my own thoughts in a while.

What's going on?

What's funny?

To me?

Nothing is funnier than i love making myself laugh where it's like i'm just at the airport and i see somebody just doing something so bizarre and i'm like i wish i had somebody to tell it to.

But instead i'm like oh, what's funny here?

And i like almost like having this conversation with myself to find the funny.

This is something that another question that comes up at the live shows is uh, how do you retain what you learn?

I'm not particularly good at it, i think i just like been exposed to a lot.

You'll be episode 1020 of the show or something.

So even if I took, you know, 1% from every episode, it's still tons of stuff.

Um, I think one of the things that people struggle with that you've identified there is if you don't have an outlet, there is very little motivation for why you're looking for stuff.

You're not scavenging for ideas if there isn't some publish that's happening.

If you're not going to turn it into a song or draw it in an illustration.

Some expression.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Or talk about it on a podcast, or write about it in a blog post, or put it on stage for a comedy special or whatever.

Like, if you don't have a reason to do it, for the most part, you're probably not going to be as motivated to really really seek this stuff out, and i think it's.

It's a good i.

I couldn't agree more about the no gatekeeper, frictionless thing.

That's why substax so great.

Like nobody needs to understand how to build a website or have a lead magnet or a fucking capture form.

It's a social media blogging.

Go on, i.

I have an idea and if it's good, there's an ecosystem of people there that will go this is great and they'll reshare it.

And now you're a writer.

You're like nobody stops you from being a writer anymore.

You can be a writer, like tomorrow yeah, but if you don't have some sort of an outlet and this is one of the sort of commonalities that i've seen with people that ask like, how do i retain what i learn?

Or um, how do i find better ideas, or whatever it might be I said well, is there?

Have you got a reason for it other than just I want to have better ideas because I want my blog to be better on my podcast or my music or my drawing or my illustrations or my fucking comedy.

Oh well, if you've got that, that's going to be the the North star that you're going to be working toward.

But without that, there's no reason.

Right.

Cause you feel like you're just kind of aimlessly shooting something or recording something or writing something.

You're like, what is this for though?

Yeah.

Or maybe you're not even recording it or writing it or shooting something.

You're just like wanting to hold on to, i'm just going to be funnier around the water cooler or whatever, like that's not.

I think that's enough motivation yeah well yeah, i think oftentimes people settle.

They go well, that's good enough, or they go.

They immediately get shot down.

They go yeah, but then where would that go?

But then where would they like?

Question, they doubt themselves right out the gates, like this is a good, uh food recipe, but who would want to read that?

Who would want to?

So it's like the self-doubt is so strong and I mean I face that all the time too.

It's like, you know, I, I pitch an idea to myself and I go, or even an idea.

It's like, I want to do more stuff in the traditional side of things.

And it's like, yeah, I really want to do this show.

But then I got to get a producer and director.

Right.

Then.

So it's like, it doesn't even make it out.

It makes it outside of my mouth, but that's about it.

And it's like, I shoot it down before I even have done it because I haven't done it.

If you've made a TV show.

Every time you've made a show it gets easier and easier.

But since i've never made a tv show and only done like sketches and stuff like that to me, i'm like yeah, but then i'd have to find a budget and then find a good producer and find it.

But once you've done it a bunch, you're like it's actually really easy.

It's actually like i hit up this person, that person, this person, that person.

It's actually quite straightforward.

So when you haven't done it, it's easier to doubt it because you no doubt you don't know success.

Am i cooking?

Yeah, you are holy shit.

Yeah yeah, but it's.

And you were talking about knowing what you retain from stuff.

I heard somewhere.

It's like your brain defaults to negativity because it's a safer place, even though the outcome isn't.

But it's a more familiar place than it is success.

So it's like if you swing a bat 10 times and you miss nine, your brain is kind of thinking well, why would I step up to the mountain?

I'm just going to miss.

But that one out of 10, crank it out.

So that's why I go. that's why i post videos because for that one out of ten is like that like that i think like whatever i think once you go viral it's like a blessing and a curse because then it's like a drug it's like when you go to casino and you hit a slot for the first time i don't know what you guys call in the uk sleuths but when you the first time something else oh there we go she's on your shirt just kidding that's a nice lady but i remember when i went to this casino when i was 18

It's um, they give you a punch card or they give you like a $50 free card.

And I think they load it up.

I think it's wrecked.

I mean, it's a casino.

Oh, like that thing about a TikTok, where one in the first five things that a new account puts up will have a little bit of virality.

Correct.

Because then you're it's like I've never done heroin, but you know how they say you're chasing the dragon or whatever.

It's like that with social media.

If you have a video, it hits a million views.

It's almost like you can't even enjoy that million because you're quickly going like what's an Oh, what can I do next?

What can I do next?

And then or you get in your head you're like well, the next thing I do isn't going to be as good as that.

Now I get trapped.

It's like, I had this video in college.

I was on vine and I had this video to like 14 or 15 million.

Like what was it?

Revines, reloops.

I never watched it.

I never used it.

I forget what it's called.

Whatever it is, please.

But, I froze because I was like, I don't know what to make.

I don't know what to make.

Like nothing I make is going to be as good as this.

All these new fans that are seeing this fans.

I had like 10,000 on sign.

I was like all these new people are going to see this and be like ah, it's not as good as the last one.

And I froze and I didn't do anything.

And then I didn't post anything.

And then the next video I did ate shit because there was, I lost all the momentum.

Yep.

So it's like it blessing and a curse type of thing where it's like, fuck yeah, all this video is doing great.

And then you're like, how do I beat it?

That's not what you should be thinking.

You should be like, how can I make something that I had that same passion for in that first video?

How can I find that same excitement?

But you're chasing that.

So I think to the casino effect, you get views and now you're like, oh, it's proof that I can do it.

How do I keep doing it?

But the problem is that has now set a standard that you can meet. or that you can fail at meeting.

Right.

The very beginning of doing something is brilliant because it's all upside.

Yeah.

You can't eat shit.

You haven't done anything before.

It's like the, the higher that you climb, the further there is to fall.

And I've thought about this.

I've thought about this with the live stuff.

So I'm in the middle of tour at the moment.

And, um you know, this is the first America headline, America and Canada headline tour that I've done North America.

That's what you guys call it, right?

Totally.

So yeah, come double them together.

So you don't have to go like, uh, It's the first one that I've done.

And now I'm thinking well, if I don't sell out the town hall in New York again next year, that means, as opposed to being on the come up and getting your first debut show in Manhattan to be 1500 people.

Oh, that's you've fallen off.

When there's so much else that also factors into it.

Yeah, of course.

The timing of when's the show, what is it?

Drake's birthday and vibes cartel and the fucking world series happening at the same time.

I mean it's yeah, it's also every year you go on tour.

The economy is in a different place, and it's never in a great place, but it's definitely not.

I started touring really heavy right out of the pandemic.

And there were so many people that were like, dude, we've been locked up for all these years.

We want to go to something live.

Holy shit.

Trevor's finally coming to my town.

We got to go.

And those tickets flew off the shelf.

I mean, like I, I like before I even left for the tour, I think 70% of the shows were all sold out.

And now I'm touring again and, and I'm using those metrics on those shows.

And I'm like, let's go bigger in those venues.

And I'm feeling like, okay, we're taking some really big swings.

Some cities like Toronto hit it straight.

Boom.

Yeah.

What is it about the Canadian audience?

They just want to buy shit straight away.

We love you.

They want to see how insane Americans are.

They want to be like, is this Trump democracy really getting with them?

You know, I don't know.

Um, but there's just certain markets and you could talk to any comedian in the world or really entertain her.

There's just some markets.

You just don't sell well.

Chicago.

I did a 3000 Milwaukee.

Couldn't fill a 900 seat room.

Now they're like an hour ish from each other.

Wow.

Did that play into it?

I don't know.

Is there just are more people from that area going to be like well, let's drive to Chicago for a weekend to go to the big show.

Then it goes Milwaukee one.

There's just so many factors in it.

That sense, right?

Oh, I've had to pull back.

Yeah, of course.

It's like, to your point, I, I, I did the Wiltern twice on the size tour.

What's that?

It's in Boston.

Beautiful venue.

And I am doing it twice again on this tour.

But there's definitely a thought when I put the first one on sale, like if I'm only doing one, does that mean I'm not this as relevant?

Or I.

I did um somewhere in Charleston, South Carolina, to start this tour off onto a right now, Trevor Wallacecom.

And I got there and I saw my name on the on the stone cause.

I performed there and it said two sold out shows.

But the last time I went there I'm like Recently I only did one.

And it's this weird like why can't I just be happy with one sold out show still?

Because you're equating it to this and it's the same.

I'm hyper fixating on one show the same way I hyper fixate on one video.

It's tunnel vision where you're like.

As opposed to three weeks ago, this one was a new record or this one was just really great or.

Yeah.

Or the fact that when you were here last time, it was out of a pandemic.

You had a Saturday night, you had an 8 PM.

Now you're doing a Thursday at 7 PM and it's whatever's going on with it.

But, um, it's, it's so hard.

I was just talking about this yesterday for like an hour of like.

It's so hard to not equate the most recent thing you've done for work in any field as your whole worth, not just entertainment, any field.

So true.

It's like if this video flops, I feel like a failure, not counting that this year I've had videos that have done 30 million 40 million views.

I've done three movies.

I've done shows.

I've opened for massive arena acts.

And it's like, but when something is not working, that's all you are focusing on.

I'm a piece of shit right now, right this second, right now i'm a piece of shit and it's also like i, but it's like all i hyper focus on.

It's the same thing with like a like.

If a hate comment, you get 100 positive comments, you get one bad comment.

You only start at that one comment.

But also if a video is flopping, like in my barometer, i also think videos used to pop off way quicker back in the day, like early tiktok 2019.

What an era.

Bless that era.

You could post a video in an hour.

Later i might have a million views like it was, like it would pop.

But now it's like ah, this flopped but, and now i'm in my head, i'm down bad.

But a week later i look and i go oh, that actually crept up to like 700 000 views.

That's pretty good.

Yeah, it like over time it grew.

So now i'm like looking at a seed in the ground.

I'm like, why aren't you a tree yet?

And i'm getting mad at myself because, Because I'm not giving it time to find its audience, time to grow.

That is the great thing about doing live, that the feedback is immediate.

If what you've done is good, you know within 0.5 seconds if it's good.

Stand-up comedy is the best form of entertainment, and it's hands down for that reason.

If stand-up you got a response the same way the algorithm did, it would be like one person would laugh and then 30 people would laugh And then two.

And then 100.

And then a week later, someone's like, ta-ha.

It's so delayed that it almost takes the excitement out of it.

That's why stand-up is so great, because trying a new bit, you immediately know that's good, that's bad.

And then you get a pop on it, you go, boom, add it to the repertoire.

And then you do it on a second show and it doesn't get as good of a laugh.

And you go, ooh, was this like a first... you know, is this a first bit kind of luck type thing?

And that, but then you obsess and you're fascinated.

Oh, what did I do on the first show?

You listen to the audio back.

What did I do on the first show?

That was different than the second show.

Let me try it out.

The third show.

And that's where I get super like kind of you're talking about with the marks up, where you keep trying and tweaking and you go.

It worked on this show.

So I know it is funny for a fact.

Where do I find the funny?

And then that's when I start doing like editing in my head.

I go, well, you know, this three minute bit really is just a big payoff at the end.

Do I need this two minutes in the front or do I take this one minute and then actually tack it on to the fact of this old joke?

So now you're like, that's where I love that.

Where we start mixing to match in and nobody has any idea.

And you're doing this in live time.

That's the best.

That's the obsession again, right?

Yeah.

Like that's what, that's what that is.

And I do think there's a weird sort of beauty at the beginning of everybody's journey, where The fact that there's no pressure on you means that you can just ah, it's so easy.

The bar is pretty low.

Nothing's popped off yet.

I don't have any obligations.

I don't have meetings with fucking Tubi and Spotify and all of this.

You know, we love you, Tubi.

But there's just no, you don't do much of the stuff.

That isn't the thing, because there's none of the ancillary bullshit.

There's no hiring and firing and team management invoices.

And like, Oh God, the show in Milwaukee has been moved because of such and such a thing.

So the whole rooting has got to change.

It's like, no, I just go and do my little spots.

And I like just do the thing.

I do the awful thing.

I'm just writing on sub stack.

Oh, well now you've got a book deal.

Oh, and now you're going to have to like deal with the publisher and you've got timelines and you've got a research assistant.

You've got to manage the research assistant.

The research assistant is going to go away for two weeks.

So you're going to get somebody else in, but they're not as good and they're not going to be.

And you're like, I came here to do this thing.

And now I'm doing all of this stuff that isn't the thing.

I have so many more days.

Sorry to cut you off.

I have so many more days where I feel like I left my day job so I could do comedy full time, like seven years ago.

And it's, there's so many days where I'm more administrative, more like sitting down.

Yeah.

And I'm like, dude, I'll just be in the middle of like, I'm like sitting with my assistant.

I'm like, she's like, okay, then you have a two o'clock and you have a three 30.

And then I'm like, what, for what?

All I want to do is make funny.

Every meeting I take takes away from the funny.

And there's so many days where I'm just doing all this admin shit.

And I go like, can I just shoot a fucking tech talk?

And then I filmed that with the stressed out brain and then the video flops and we're down to the races.

Yep.

Yeah.

So for me it's all about like finding those.

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So it's like I I might be like okay, this Saturday I want to write what are the things that make me feel good?

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That's functionhealth.com slash modernwisdom. what does a, uh, pre creativity game plan look like to you?

Um, really rest is the biggest thing.

Sleep, good sleep, uh, working out in the morning and, um, just working out.

Like when those endorphins, it's like like I'm, I'm pretty like in my head most of the day, but like, if I like, work out and I'm like I've had a coffee and I'm, and I'm by myself, like I'm like walking around, I'm like singing to myself.

I'm like that's we're on the verge of something where we're feeling good, but for me it's like i, i can't structurally write.

Where it's like okay, you have a uh, you have a 2 pm meeting and a 3 3 3, 30 meeting, but but at 3 you should write.

I'm like that doesn't work for me.

Where i'm like okay work, you know, like let time to be funny.

Like you can't force funny for me.

Some people set hours every day that are like every day at 11 i write for an hour in.

You're allowing yourself to be creative in those moments.

But for me, it's like, I can't structurally do that.

So when I'm having these days of all these meetings, instead of like I'll, I'll be like okay guys, let's go to lunch.

Let's let's step out of this office.

Let's kind of get reset.

Yeah.

Let's reset.

Let's submerge.

Let's be around some people.

That's when ideas start flying up for me.

It's like, there's ideas everywhere.

It whether it's fashion trends somebody's wearing, how somebody is talking to the barista, or something.

It's just like.

But when I'm in this stress brain it's like, it's almost like I have like, do not disturb on for ideas where I'm like stressed.

It's like like all these ideas are right in front of me.

But when I'm like relaxed or like kind of out of the work brain a little bit, like more, like fun kind of stuff, it's so much easier for me to make these observations, to make fun of where, if I'm stressed, I'm there's funny all around me but I'm not noticing it.

So similar to what I do, and not for the funny bit but for the Oh.

That's like two ideas that I haven't realized that that come together.

And I've been hearing a lot of people talk about obsession at the moment.

Zach Pogroves just started this new running club in New York and it's all about obsession.

And why did this bit about motivation and discipline?

But I never, I never wrote about it.

I never published it.

So I wonder if obsessions are part of the motivation discipline, but without, you're so right.

If you're in admin mode, that stuff just, it can't penetrate at all.

Mike Isretel did this really wonderful episode about rest ethic stuff with me.

Just fucking sick line.

He says, you can't white knuckle creativity.

Like you can't fucking grip it like this and be like, Hey, be creative.

Right, right, right.

Most things, you know.

If it's answering emails, you can kind of like white knuckle email answering and you can white knuckle like fucking admin and responding to texts and you know like sort of low level executive function stuff, organizing a schedule or whatever, making phone calls.

You can't do that with creativity, because it kind of just like arrives and you've got to be sat back.

Yeah.

And there's days where I try to force creativity doesn't hit whether I'm like tired and and I go.

Well, I got to just work out.

Workout usually helps with creativity.

And then I work out and I'm sitting and I'm trying to write, I'm trying to come up with something and I'm just getting.

I'm drawing blanks.

And sometimes that's just the nature of the game.

You can't create creativity, but you can try and you can maybe instead of saying well, instead of figuring out a new TV show idea, how about I just take an old bit that i've been working on forever, see if there's anything new?

It's like you don't have to come up with your biggest idea.

Then you can still kind of like like okay, i'm not feeling as creative, what's uh old joke i've been doing?

How can i punch that up a little bit?

Or how can i just listen to some stuff back to kind of like put you in that right zone?

But you're really right, it's.

You can't white knuckle through it, and that's why i think also setting alone time for yourself me personally, is when.

That's why so many people have so many creative thoughts in the shower, Shower thoughts and toilet thoughts dude.

Shower, toilet, and also driving because you're just, you're not staring at a screen.

You're zoned out.

So finding those moments where, even if I'm feeling not creative, I just go.

Let me just go to a mall.

Let me just get out.

Let me go get a, let me not make a coffee here.

You're not going to be around people at a mall.

Let me go get, let me go get a coffee.

Let me, instead of making one and it's not for the coffee, it's for the fact of like, well, what's out there. change of creativity is like fishing you're like what's out there if i if i go to a farmer's market am i gonna get any am i gonna catch anything and then you might think you have something you're like oh dude look look what's this guy he's got like a weird like quilt on his head what's this you know and you're like you're trying to you're you're getting like sparks of creativity and you're looking around and oh is this is everyone wearing birkenstocks oh is that a video idea and you're in But you're just, you're piecing it together.

You can't just sit at home and be like, what's funny?

What's funny?

I mean, you can, you obviously can.

But for me, I gotta, I gotta feel connected.

I gotta feel something.

People will pitch me ideas all the time.

And I go like, I see why that's funny, but like, I don't have an emotional connection to it.

But then, you know, I get cut off by a cyber truck.

And do you, do you have one?

No, no, of course not.

Chris, you have the build of a guy who would have a cyber truck.

What is that?

Give me the, give me the archetype of the cyber truck owner.

You.

Why?

What's that?

What is this?

Austin, Texas.

Well, the British thing I think is a front.

How long you, you, you moved here from Dayton, Ohio.

How long in, in what's your best American accent?

Oh, there isn't one.

Sorry.

You can't get an American accent out of me.

I can do lots of British accents, but.

You can do a British accent because it's an accent to you.

That's true.

Boom.

Yeah, it is.

My Instagram bio is fake British accent.

Perfect.

Yeah.

The average Cybertruck owner is a guy with a Patagonia vest.

He's like a tech guy who got kind of like not the respect he wanted.

Okay.

And a truck to him is too expensive to fill up the gas.

And he goes like, I want to be the badass at work.

But I also want to be with the tech guy.

They want to bridge the gap.

It's like the midlife crisis sports car dude, but for the iPhone 17 generation.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay, so there's a lot of compensation.

So you're saying I'm compensating.

Correct.

Okay.

No, I'm not saying you're compensating at all, but you said you live in Austin, Texas.

Sorry to dox you.

What's your home address?

Yeah.

But Austin, Texas is the hub of this stuff.

There's a lot of Cybertrucks.

So I could feel... What do you drive?

Camaro.

6.2 liter V8 Camaro.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

Compensating still, just in a different direction.

Different fucking fuel source.

Beautiful car.

Yeah.

I don't think you drive a Cybertruck, but if you did I would say but i, you got cut off by a cyber truck.

It's like i have to feel an emotional connection to the creativity and i need a why i get cut off by a cyber shop.

Piss me off why?

And then i catch up and i see the guy and i go well, that's why it's this guy who got this car and now he thinks he's some status guy, he thinks he's like elite, he thinks he's like futuristic and it's like then i, everything i make fun of isn't even about like.

Is that the genesis of the Cybertruck bit?

Did you get cut off by a Cybertruck?

Because you did a video about the Cybertruck.

Well, you know what it was?

He had a Cybertruck, right?

And I was in it.

And just how he was describing it.

And he's like, yeah, it's got air conditioning.

I'm like, yeah, of course it has air conditioning.

Yeah, it's got a reverse camera.

Kia Sorento has reverse.

And how he was talking about it.

He's like, it's just so futuristic.

And I just was like, you're a different person after getting this call.

Well, yeah, but like he just was a different person.

Like I think you had a three series before that.

And then he gets this guy and he's like this.

Now he's like a tech guy.

And now he's like telling me about like the Dow Jones.

I'm like, well, what do you know about any of this?

So it's just like that persona.

And then I kind of started seeing them everywhere.

And then I go, dude, there's a kind of a theme.

Every time you see a Cybertruck, it's kind of in and around the same guy.

Yeah.

So that's when I get excited.

And that's when the mental editing comes up and I go, okay, Cybertruck's very popular.

This has great SEO online.

People know about Cybertrucks.

I can make fun of this.

What's the type of guy?

I love making fun of them, a thing or an uh, like an object or like a car, because now the shareability is crazy.

Cause.

Then everyone goes oh, this is just like John.

John you have a cyber truck, Mark you have a cyber truck.

And it's like what's going to make people either share it cause it's funny or share it because it's relatable to somebody they know.

So for me, that's what my brain I like love that when I like am onto something and you're like, cause sometimes I'm spitballing.

I go, ah, what about this car?

No.

What about this car?

No.

And then I then like, the cyber trick comes around and I can picture the like character I'd play with the video and I go yes yes,

And it's like, it's like I just it just flows when, when a good idea connects, you might have one box unchecked, but for the most part you're like and he's going to dress like this, and we can shoot it here and we can, and it like it, just it has forcing it.

Yeah.

It has this like synchronicity to it.

Is that the right word?

Synchronicity.

Sorry, I need to finish this drink, but it it like it, you feel it come together and there's jokes that i have that come to me so easy that i go like this has to be somebody else's joke because this can be so easy.

But it's a but, it's an experience that happened to me.

So i know it's not somebody else's, i mean, but it comes you so easy.

You're like this is just like, this is just a blessing from the creative gods.

Yeah, i mean again, i have the most uh, fucking playmobil, my first live show, sort of equivalent of this.

But uh, i know that in order to make the live show that i'm doing at the moment, the self-discovery show energized, there needs to be funny bits, not just at the start, which was to kind of like release tension.

Of course everyone yeah Um, because when I went in and the first version of the show that I did two years ago, there was no laugh.

It was kind of like straight off the bat, straight into ideas.

And people were 10 minutes in and there was tension in the room because they were like am I supposed to laugh?

Do I clap?

Like, what do I do here?

Like, what am I supposed to do?

So I'm like, okay, if we just fucking work the tension out in the room.

Anyway, there's a bit.

I'm using Lizzo as an example for um, people whose opinions and deeds are far apart.

Like online, people can say that they're real charitable caring philanthropic, you know empathetic, whilst not actually having to do it, because you're able to say a thing whilst doing something else.

The distance between opinions and deeds has never been greater like lizzo, and this was when i was in australia.

I was just talking about the fact that she was um, you know, helping these bigger girls uh, by pushing their careers and giving them a platform and, as i said that i was like, presumably a structurally reinforced platform.

And that's like one of the biggest out of nowhere bits of the night, because people don't see it coming, because I didn't see it coming.

And I'm like I just say the thing that I said because it came to my mind while I was in fucking Melbourne or fucking Brisbane or whenever I was a year ago.

And that's still a part of the set now moving forward.

So I'm like, Oh fuck.

Like that's really cool.

So the fact that you feel like, Oh, this was just given to me.

Like where the fuck did that come from?

Dude, when I riff, I don't even like that's the funniest shit comes to me riffing on stage.

And I have no idea where it came from or in filming videos.

Um, this guy churdley's, who i've made so many videos with throughout the years, doing a lot of sketch, it's like there's just certain people that bring the riff out of you and there's certain crowds that bring the riff out of you, and when him and i would film videos together, it's like we would go in there with like a premise of like okay, we should make a video where you know here's the end goal and how we get there is different.

It's very like kind of like reno, 911 and like seinfeld, a lot of those shows or like um, how larry david likes to shoot.

It's like Just get to the end goal of you're mad at her because she did this.

And then you, just when you were around the right crowds of the right people they just bring, and you don't even know where they're coming from.

People be like, how did you think of that?

I'm like, I don't know.

When I watched you and you, especially, uh, Jimmy Carr as well.

And, uh, Matt Rife.

When I watch you guys riff on stage it is like how the living fuck does that come spontaneously?

Who's that?

Who's that really famous freestyle rap guy, harry mack.

Harry mack, i know it's like watching harry mack yeah yeah, this is the most high wire act, because if you don't say something funny after you've just popped some guy in the front row and you're like oh, what's going on?

Man, oh okay, and the oh okay, that's the like starter pistols got fired.

If i don't fuck with you now and if you don't do it, he kind of wins right and you kind of look like a fool or a bully or someone.

That's not cool and you're like, oh fuck, now i've got to win the crowd back.

Yeah, so the doing that under pressure, under tension um, it's just super fucking impressive.

It's really really, really impressive.

But we did the first show, i told you, first show in um in new york.

We had some problems getting people in.

They were doing like extra bag checks at the start.

So you have one of those crowds, bring a lot of guns.

No, it's just, I don't know.

Something was going on and fucking Alex is running around trying to fix shit.

And um, my uh warmup that I brought with me plays music for 30 minutes fucking unbelievable like country blues stuff.

And he's dialed this set in like perfectly.

And he knows it from start to finish, without looking at a clock, for like 29 minutes 30 seconds, like done.

And he's off.

And then I'm like, And he just gets like a little message from on his stage where she's going Hey man, we just need you to extend by 15 minutes.

He's like, it's the first show of tour.

It's the, it's the biggest show that we're doing.

It's a town hall on a Thursday in the middle of Manhattan.

It's sold out.

Everyone's looking at me.

It's like, yeah, we need you to extend by 15 minutes.

And he just did like, just pulled out like unreal songs out of nowhere that he hadn't practiced, he hadn't prepped, like not knowing the tuning of his guitar, not knowing this.

It was so cool.

Well, i love being put on the spot.

I think that's why crowd work sometimes i'll like and listen.

There's so, and the parts that i don't say to them back are funny.

Those get edited out.

Yeah, i post a minute 30 clip.

It was a three minute interaction, whatever it is, but those parts that i like when you're being put on pressure, that's when like, your body is in like fight or flight and it takes all of this creative juices and all of its years of training comedically to be like just what you know and you're not thinking about anything else.

You're not thinking about a doctor's appointment.

You got to go to, you're not thinking about what time you're flat.

You're just, you're so present.

And when you're present, that's when you're just.

I just love that feeling when, when everything creatively just leads to that moment, because you're just responding to, but you're just present without thinking really.

Well, yeah.

I mean, it's like, I remember I did improv classes when I first moved to LA.

Hey now.

And they like, anytime I would like think of a joke to say, it would always bomb.

Cause it like, like I would just respond.

Yeah.

Those are always the funniest, but like if you had like a joke loaded up, time goes by and maybe the joke was funny 10 seconds ago, but you, but they didn't stop talking yet.

Or, or you, you said something funny and I go, Oh, I got something to say, but you keep talking.

It's like the funnier thing to respond what they finished with, not what they interjected with.

What what, what like middle through.

Yeah.

So I think to the effect of crowd work, it's like, you're just, you're, you're present.

I'm.

I mean like it.

It's also like I'm I've been doing.

I'm on the same on stage for like 30 minutes.

I'm like, I'm fired up.

I'm, I'm warmed up.

I'm, I'm fully in, I'm, you know, I'm, I'm dialed in.

If crowd work happens right in the beginning of the show, it takes me a second to be like wait what?

Hold on.

Because there's no, like, So there's no stakes established yet in the show yet.

Sometimes there is, but like, sometimes I'm like, it's like, sometimes I'm like, let me just let me get comfortable in this room first.

Somebody might yell something crazy in the beginning.

I'll be like, what did you say?

Okay.

Can I dab with it?

Start cooking with the crowd going off my like guided material.

And then 20 minutes later, I'd be like, hold on.

You said you had a bow constrictor as your first blow job.

And then I'll bring it back.

You know?

Cause I'm like, Let me warm up real quick.

You can't just start yelling this shit.

It's like, cause I want to feel it's like working out.

I don't want to just go and hit my PR right off the bat.

It's like, let me kind of like, let me do some lunges real quick.

A good term for that is called cold barring.

So you go into the gym and the bar is still cold and you try and cold bar your one rep max.

It's like, you can't cold bar great crowd work.

Like you need to actually get into it a little bit.

But I think, to go back to what you said at the very beginning, which is we love people that love something, somebody that's got a passion, and i think part of the reason is that person probably gets into a flow state at some point.

They're writing music yeah, and they're just like obsessing, and maybe they're not even right.

Maybe they're just editing the song and they're trying to find like what's the perfect fucking kick drum, like i need to, like i need to lose a little bit of this low end here.

Or it's someone that's drawing and time just stops and they're just it's them and whatever it is they're trying to create.

Or someone's writing a comedy bit, or they're doing this on stage or, you know, playing fucking pickleball, whatever it is like.

This is why hobbies are cool and compelling, and the fact that increasingly people don't have pursuits that make them feel like that.

I think it's like a real you can, laid at the feet of bullshit, jobs and and cost of living and and the fucking dopamine and the world's news and all the rest of it.

That's true, but if you don't have at least like one thing,

And I guess that could even be probably like playing with your kids being like fuck, like.

I'm just so like in the zone with my kids and I'm having such a good time, and time's completely stopped here.

But if you don't have anything, I think it's going to be really tough to feel like I live a meaningful life.

If you're kind of just moving from neurotic obsessive echo, fucking self-reinforcing thought loop thing to the next thing, to the next thing, to the next thing, to the next thing.

It's like well, at what point are you just there and you kind of out of your own head and just doing the thing?

So what do you tell people that feel like they're working a dead end job?

And they're like I don't know if I have any hobbies and I just I don't have any time to work life balance.

It's rough, man.

I mean, there's material constraints to what people can do.

And and this is always the issue of trying to talk about this sort of stuff online that well, easy for you to.

That is the sort of immediate response.

And in some ways like rightly so, because if you are a person who doesn't have the opportunity to, you've got to work two jobs and raise a kid and fucking do the rest of it trying to get some sort of a qualification like that sucks.

But your goal presumably is not to do that forever.

Your goal is to be able to do that, to reach escape velocity so that you can have this opportunity.

And this is why I think people that criticize or people that have an issue with anyone talking about how to manage money or or um, you know, move up the property ladder or whatever it might be, they're like well, this is like completely out of touch.

And he goes well, it's only out of touch with the stage that you're at now, because presumably your goal from the stage right now is to get to the stage where this sort of conversation is of use to you.

So i'm kind of skeptical.

It makes me sad when i see cynicism or criticism on the internet of people talking about how to go from 50 to 60 as opposed to always just going from 0 to 1 or 0 to 10.

Not everybody's at the beginning of their journey.

And if you want to learn about okay, what do you do when you actually get a little bit of momentum under your wings?

There's a very different problem being at the start of your journey and being like it's all upside i can't fail as opposed to going hmm, what's it going to be like the first time that you eat shit or get a demotion, or you don't hit your target in your sales job, or you release a blog post that eats shit?

Compared to the last one, whatever it might be, oh well, actually that is a really challenging uh um hurdle to try and overcome.

It just feels a little bit less sort of like underdog philanthropy, like we're raising up the fucking, like the people that are struggling, because as you get further and further up any sort of a journey, there's fewer and fewer people like it right.

Because, by definition, people that get to 50 or 70 or 90 are in the smaller percentage than the people that are the very beginning.

It's like.

To me that would be pretty interesting too, because it's saying hey, I know that you might be at this stage, but watch out, because this thing's coming right.

Haven't had a video take off, or you haven't had a blog post take off, or you you haven't managed to change careers to the one that you want to, but when you do, you're going to encounter this thing, and this thing is going to be hard in a really different way.

So you're going to feel like oh, what if i dropped off?

What if my self-worth has changed now?

What if i can't be as creative as i used to be in the past?

Those things are.

They're useful to see, but the the only solution that i think that makes any sense is like Even even if you only had 20 minutes or 30 minutes today, what is something that if you knew it was on your calendar for the day, it would make getting out of bed way easier.

You're like, fuck, like I can't wait.

So for instance, today I had a good night's sleep last night, even though I've been flying a lot.

Again, as you know, like tour's not exactly great on the like sleep pattern stuff.

Um, and I woke up this morning and I was like fucking Trevor and Huberman back to back, and all my friends, alpha males two yeah, two sigmas.

Uh, this is fucking sick.

Yeah, like this is a good day.

I'm like okay i, i can deal with the admin, i can deal with the emails, i can deal with.

The bullshit episode on tucker carlson just went out like as we're doing this episode, i assume that i'm canceled by like by now.

Um, but i'm just like i'm fired up to do this thing And if you can find half an hour of your day where you're like pickleball is kind of an example, because people get obsessed with it.

Like if you fucking love that and you know that Monday is going to be pickleball day and you get up on a morning and you're working the kiosk in a fucking where was it?

Costco.

You're like, oh, God.

But tonight I get to go.

Yeah.

Monday pickleball, like maybe I see that hot girl again that I've been talking to, or maybe I get to get better at my thing.

Yeah, I miss that feeling.

Dude, I had a Spanish class with this girl and her name was Bailey.

And I would get so excited on Monday, just in hopes that she'd ask me about my weekend.

Oh God.

She has like three kids now, but the, somebody beat me to it.

Probably multiple people.

She has three babies.

Was she Spanish?

If she's Mexican, that fertility explains a lot.

No, she was a white girl, but kind of went the stolen valor route.

She'd kind of pencil in her eyebrows and She thought she was Latina.

But honestly dude, I mean she had a, she had an ass.

So yeah, you could, yeah.

She could laugh as Latina.

Yeah.

She, she could.

Yeah.

She, she, yeah, she could pass, but she, she was, oh man.

But, but that, that feeling of like, oh, she, I'll see her Monday morning in, in Spanish class.

Maybe that's why it felt like she might be a little Latina Spanish class.

But to your point, I would get excited at my day job for lunch because everybody in the office would go out to lunch and I would say, oh cool.

I can now go to the break room and edit my videos freely.

So I would get excited for people to leave.

I would get like fine.

And it was a 20 to 30 minute window where I could like go.

Oh, if I edit now, then I can go to open mic later.

And I like I've always been like a, a Google calendar guy in my head where I'm just it's all blocks where I go okay, if we'll, if I do 20 minutes now, then I have that free.

And I, but like, I would obsess over like, when can I, when can I film this week?

When can I edit this week?

I would sneak away and, and shoot a video upstairs, my old day job.

And then I would be like in my lunch break, I would turn my laptop against a wall.

So nobody else in the break room could see it.

And it would look like I'm working.

Nobody ever in the office ever saw me work as hard as I did when I was editing because I had like a 20 minute constraint.

Same to the pressure thing.

It's like if I have a whole week to get a video done, I'm going to dilly dally around the whole week.

And I'll probably finish it Sunday night uh, at midnight with when, if there's like a deadline?

I was the same way with papers in college.

I didn't give a shit until there was a deadline.

So also giving yourself a deadline for goals, of saying like okay yeah, you work from uh 5 PM to midnight and you go.

Okay well, I have up until 4 PM to get this done.

Cause I got to do the closing shift tonight.

Like That deadline mentality, that really I gave myself a small goal of one video a week and I like would obsess over that.

And I just, I loved it.

I would find time to make that.

It's what I said before.

Look at how much reverence and enjoyment you have for what should be the shittest period of your career.

Where you're like, nobody knew who I was.

I had a couple of videos that had blown up.

I didn't have the following.

I wasn't flying around the country playing all of these shows.

I certainly wasn't selling out the fucking Beacon Theater in New York.

It's kind of hard to say.

It's a bit of an unteachable lesson that the golden years are often the first ones.

But you're going to look back on the start of this relationship.

Do you remember before we had kids and we lived in that pokey apartment in the Upper East Side?

And we could hear the pigeons outside, but like, it was so beautiful.

And we had Saturday mornings to ourselves and we go to the dog park and blah, blah, blah.

Or do you remember when we first founded the business and we didn't have any idea what we were doing and we had that pitch meeting and we crushed it, but we slept under the desk the night before and we ordered Domino's.

Like those are the golden years.

Yeah.

There's a good chance.

A lot of people listening to this right now are in their golden years, but so stressed about the future.

They don't realize it.

Yes.

So true.

Morgan Housel has this fucking unreal article.

He says, um, golden years only exist in the past.

Like nobody ever believes they're growing.

They're living through a golden era.

Yeah.

There's a good chance.

I'm in my golden years right now, but I'm just like well, why can't I say uh well, Seattle sold out, but why isn't Portland?

You know, like there's so many, there's so many things that can take you away from it.

And it's almost good that it takes you away from it.

I'm not a big reflect guy.

Like sure, i'll do the beacon on saturday and i'll be like yeah cool, but this youtube short bomb, yeah.

Or it's like okay cool, but what's the next show?

Salt lake city, how's that selling?

I don't, i don't.

My mom asked me if i ever am enjoying anything that i'm doing because i've done a lot of really cool shit.

And she goes do you enjoy this?

And i go i enjoy it.

Months later i go like i shot my special in austin.

I and i did three shows with paramount and i was like unreal unreal, so happy with it.

And then like There's a photo in my kitchen of the last night in the Paramount.

And like, I walk past it every day.

And then like a couple months later, I looked at it.

I was like, holy shit, man.

I can't believe I did that.

But for me, I can't in the moment feel it.

I walk into it.

I'll walk into the beacon on Saturday.

I'll look at it.

I say, ah, this is fucking beautiful.

Now it's time to worry about my set.

You know, it won't be until months later that I'm just sitting there like, Dude, the beacon.

I fucking did that.

Yeah.

And I don't know what that is because I'm just always worried about the future.

So being in these golden years thing, it's like dude.

I mean listen, I'll probably be 62 performing at a loony bin in Tulsa, Oklahoma.

Be like, you're working for chicken tenders and a shot of Jack Daniels.

Like I did the beacon back in the day.

I'll be thinking about how good it currently is right now, but I don't realize it right now.

I am doing it right now.

And I'm, I feel like I'm not, I feel like I'm still like, does anybody care?

Should I go to an open mic?

Should I delete my account?

Now this is being dramatic, but I feel like I'm in the golden years, but I don't feel like I'm in the golden years until five years down the road.

I'll be like, dude, that was incredible.

I was, I was doing everything I wanted.

I was, I have employees, I have a house, I'm doing everything that I need.

I'm, but I'm not like appreciating it because I'm always just head down.

What's next?

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This idyll is a mirage that'll fade as you approach, revealing that the prelude you rushed through was in fact the one to your death.

I think this is so fucking common.

I think that people have this next thing, like they're sort of peering over the shoulder of the present moment to see what's coming.

You know, when I feel this the most is when I go to the mothership.

And this is not an insult to any of the comedians at the mothership, but there's always this sense of like.

Oh yeah, I know that like such and such is on now, but who's up next?

But who's up next?

And before I know it, I've, but who's up next did my way through the whole fucking show.

And I'm like, oh, I'm done.

We're outside again.

Like, and I've just like peered over the fucking shoulder of the present moment waiting for that.

I also think that's what has made dating so hard, because you're like yeah, I'm dating this person right now, but but with social media and you see your whole I mean my Instagram, I don't know about yours.

It's just like, there's hot women everywhere.

And there's just temptations everywhere.

You're like, yeah, this girl's awesome.

I love this woman.

But you're also like, and then you're like, what are these voices coming in?

So I feel that, and also people even before they start dating somebody, where they're swiping and they match with somebody like nah, it's cool.

What else is out there?

I don't know.

Options are difficult, man.

You know, there's a this cool idea called the paradox of choice by Barry Schwartz.

Did this Ted talk?

I remember when I first.

I remember where I was when I was listening to this, like over 10 years ago, driving through Newcastle.

It basically says, um, the beer, Barry Schwartz, Newcastle.

Yeah.

That's where I'm from.

The beer.

Yeah.

Newcastle brown ale.

Sorry.

Have you drank it?

Yeah.

That's good.

Sorry.

I was getting, not at all.

Have you ever played?

Newcastle?

Have you done anything in the UK?

No, I haven't.

I want to.

Brown.

I need to.

They'd like you.

No, I know I would.

I really want to.

You must be lining that up.

You must be lining up with Europe.

Yeah, we're working on London.

I've done Australia, which is where I thought everybody was here from this morning, but no.

I'm sorry.

That was a bad intro to everyone.

It's like, you're Australian and you're Australian and you're New Zealand.

Well, everybody in LA has a cool accent.

And I'm like, nobody from LA is from LA.

Like everybody you meet here and every bigger production you go to in LA for a shoot or something, there's always like one token Australian and you're like God.

I need an Australian around me.

Um, you remember where you're?

Uh, where I was, where I was listening to this 50 years ago, if you went into the jeans store to try and buy a pair of jeans and there would be one type of gene.

And they'd maybe be in different waist sizes.

But you walk out and maybe they're not perfect for you, but you don't feel much regret about your purchase because there were no other options.

Fast forward 50 years to now, and do you want bootcut or skinny, ripped, stretched, bleached?

Do you want them to be cropped?

Do you want them to be low-rise, high-rise?

Do you want them to be loose?

If you don't choose the precise, perfect pair of genes, it's your fault.

Previously...

It was because reality constrained your options.

Now it's because your ability to choose appropriately was wrong.

So you get much more buyer's remorse when there's loads of options than when there's none.

And there's like analysis, paralysis thing is why you don't make anything and you're always dissatisfied.

And it's the same thing with partners.

Absolutely.

Well, it's the same thing with like, there's so much fast fashion, there's so much fast trends.

It's like, I'm always fascinated at how How I edit is how based on people scroll.

Like I study how people scroll. at airports, at restaurants, people scroll, no headphones on.

And they're like, boom, boom, boom.

So for me, I go, how can I catch their attention when it's usually a video where I'm talking?

So it's like, I need subtitles.

I need to catch their attention because they're going boom, boom, scroll, scroll.

What am I going to do in that 0.5 seconds?

That's going to catch their attention because that's just the world we're living in.

Everything is just like next, next, next, next, next, next.

How can I in a next, next, next world be like, and stop.

And there's so many options.

And it's, it's, it's to your point.

It's like, that's why I haven't made a TV show.

I go, I have this idea and they go, well, I'll set you up with it.

And then we'll do this.

And then, and then I'm like, there's too many options.

If I want to make a sketch right now, I call one guy, he shoots it, he edits it.

It's out.

So that's the, that's the, the genes.

The stakes are low as well.

The stakes are a little bit low.

It's like if I try and do this TV show and it flops, and Well, that is my chart, as opposed to knowing well, I do the video this week and it doesn't work.

And then I do another one next week and maybe it redeems me like ah, when the stakes are a little bit lower, it's easier.

But that's, again, that's the same advantage that you have at the start of your journey.

No one's scrutinizing you.

No one's like Trevor Wallace fall off when no one knows, no one knew who he was.

Yeah.

I think about uh, that habituation thing, sort of the balance between wow, this thing's really big and impressive.

And I want to enjoy it at the time.

But the more that I enjoy it at least in my experience the more it causes me to get a little bit more sort of nervy and in my own head about what's going on.

And that's not very good for performance.

So trying to play cool, whilst also trying to appreciate what's going on, whilst also not looking over the shoulder at the present moment, whilst also not doing it so much that you're like, Oh my God, it's such a big deal.

This is the beacon.

I'm going to fuck up.

Well yeah, I when I did the Chicago theater, that was probably one of the biggest venues I've ever done.

And I remember there was a moment where I walk out on stage and it's a long walk from the side stage to the center stage.

It's this loud ass cheer.

And I'm like dude, I got to get to the mic and tell a joke before I start overanalyzing like holy shit, this is because, for me, the second i tell the joke, i'm like locked in.

I always to this day and i this was just a something i learned from open mics and just myself is like i feel like i always have to get a joke out as quick as possible so the audience can be like oh, we trust this guy, whether his next five jokes are shit at one, he got a trust right off the bat, so i come out with something, a good first impression.

So just first impression, right.

The second you walk on stage based on what you're wearing, how you look, They're judging everything.

So if your first joke is funny, they go, okay, we like this guy.

That's something I learned from just starting out doing open mics and doing random showcases inside of a Marie calendars, which is a pie shop here in America.

So I would always try to find a joke as fast as possible.

And I still do that to this day.

Granted.

A lot of these people follow me online and love me, but I'm still like.

You guys invested your time money, in this.

You're getting funny out the gate.

I'm not here to lollygag.

But when I'm walking out there and I see how big this is and I see people cheering, I go dude, I got to get to that mic so I can lock in.

Because if I'm out here any longer, it's the same thing for the special.

I'm just standing there taking it all in.

I'm like, nope, I'm thinking.

I'm thinking.

I'm thinking I'm not doing my set.

And I'm like, oh, holy shit, there's people up there.

How are my jokes going to exceed their expectations?

They're standing up, and they're so excited.

I'm like, these aren't thoughts I have on the regular.

So I'm like once I just get in and do what I feel like I was meant to do.

That's when the show is great.

But every once in a while I'll take a moment in a big crowd and be like dude.

This is a lot of people.

I won't say that, but I mentioned it.

This is a lot of people who are like, shut up, get back to the set.

Because I'm not thinking about the foot.

I'm, like, off somewhere.

Isn't that strange, though?

The whole reason that you do this.

Well, you do it to feel proud of your performance, and you do it to make people laugh and you do it to make money.

Like, largely, you're doing it for the experience of having done it.

Like, the reason that we do things that we enjoy is to experience doing things that we enjoy.

And if the only way that you can perform is to almost fucking disembody yourself yeah uh you, and it's this weird.

It doesn't surprise me that you go.

I enjoyed the things that i do.

I just enjoyed them.

Three months later um, and i saw this i was yesterday on the plane watching a cut of the vlog from new york and toronto, which was last weekend.

I'm like holy fuck yeah yeah, that thing happened and that thing happened.

I'm like, hang on, where was i when that thing was happening to me?

Like where was where was I in my mind?

You're there, but you're not there mentally.

You're somewhere else.

Yeah.

That was a good point.

When I did my first tour uh, the videographer was.

I was like ah, this vlog didn't do a very good number.

So he's like, that's not what this is for.

He's like, this vlog is so you can watch it back years later and be like, dude, how cool is that?

That I got to tour the U S with my best friend at the time.

It was still best friend, but we toured together and it was like how sick is that that you got to do this and, like to your point, i'm there.

I'm not thinking about the vlog and how cool is using, i'm thinking about the show.

I'm thinking about what's next and what i got going on, but then when you watch it back, i almost get this like third person.

I watch it back, i'm like dude, this guy's life is so cool, but i'm like i'm the guy that was me, but i don't feel like it's almost.

Yeah, i really think there's something deep here dude, i really really do.

Um, That Morgan House article I was talking about where he says nobody ever believes that they're living through golden years.

He's just this great example of him and his wife living in New York.

And they've got kids now.

And he's got The Psychology of Money, which has sold a gazillion copies.

It's been on the New York Times bestseller chart for like four years straight or something.

He was talking to his wife.

And he was saying do you remember when we used to live in New York and we didn't have any kids and we'd lie in on a Saturday morning and we'd get to go and have coffee and we could have this wonderful time?

Remember how amazing it was?

Remember how free we were?

And his wife turns to him and goes, what are you talking about?

You were miserable.

Like you had no idea whether you're going to hold your job down.

You were scared about the future.

We thought we were going to get kicked out of the house.

And what he realizes is in retrospect, he could see that his fears were a waste of time and that the successes that he was hoping would come to pass. would come to pass but at the time all of his fears were really real like i'm gonna miss the first joke or people are gonna laugh at me or stuff's not gonna go well and none of his success none of your successes are promised so you end up with this weird world where in retrospect you know that you had nothing to worry about so you can almost enjoy stuff more and i guess this is kind of a curse of Somebody that isn't obsessive with high standards that's trying to achieve because the reason that you are getting the outcomes you want is because of your obsession, your attention to detail, your vigilance of, oh, that might, that could be a little bit better if only I refined it this tiny little bit more. okay, well, do you want to do that?

And also at the same time be like, I'm just present, man.

I'm free flowing.

I'm like here.

Those two things don't comport very well.

No.

And they feel like they would hate each other.

A guy who's compulsive and obsessive over an edit sees a guy at a coffee shop who's like it'll all work out, man.

If people buy, yeah, those two guys would never hang out.

They would meet each other at a party and be like, that guy's an idiot.

That guy's an idiot.

So it almost feels weird to let myself know like Hey, I've been doing this independently for seven years.

Yet every day I go, how am I going to make this happen?

I go well, I have a track record of seven years, but but I'm like yeah but, but how am I going to?

And a week and a month and a year, but like so to his point, if I put myself five years behind when I'm only two years in, I go ah dude, how am I going to make this work another five years?

You just, you kind of just do, but you're you're you're, you're subconsciously trusting yourself while stressing yourself, because you're stressing yourself to the next level.

You're like, I gotta get, I gotta get, I gotta get true.

But, but it's not like, there's no like bumpers like in bowling where it's like course correcting.

You're like, I'm just, I gotta, I gotta.

And you're just, you're like stressing yourself forward in this weird way where you're like I trust myself because I'm not looking up job applications.

I'm not, I'm not putting the fries in the bag.

I'm not doing that.

I'm trusting myself.

I know that myself, I know what I'm doing is successful and funny yet.

There's still doubt.

What is why I've, I've done everything online that I've ever dreamed of times a thousand.

You know, I remember I have a photo of a goal list from 2017 that I like to look at every once in a while.

It was when I saw my day job, but I, I just quit.

I think I just quit my day job in that year.

And one of my goals on there was like, get a million views on a video.

And now I was talking to my girlfriend last night about something that stresses me.

I'm like, if a video on Instagram doesn't do a million views, i'm like sad, i'm like depressed about it, but i'm like that once was my goal for the entire year.

One video hit a million views and i wanted like a million views on like facebook.

I don't even this is pre-tiktok, this is like pre-instagram, so it's interesting to see.

I lost my train of thought.

Interesting, interesting to see that i'm looking here.

I've got like a yearly goals library.

Yeah, that's what you've prompted me to go and look at here.

Uh, i think me and dean put some together, certainly in 2018, which was hit 20 000 subscribers.

Yeah and uh, the problem that you have and the problem that everybody has, so habituation right, which is um, you get a new car and then you get used to it, And the first day that you get your cyber truck, it's amazing.

And after that, you kind of, the hedonic adaptation sets in.

But the same thing happens for goals and the same thing happens for what you want to achieve.

So the first time that you played a headline show just straight up headline show, not just spots been like holy fuck 200 people.

And it's just me.

And now you're looking over the shoulder of the fucking beacon and going, yeah, I know.

But what about Chicago?

What about Milwaukee?

What about the whatever, whatever.

So there's this line for every level, there's a devil.

And as you keep on getting better at the thing, the level of resolution that you look at it with becomes more refined.

You know you go from like 360p to 1080 to 4k to 8k and you're like looking, zooming in, zooming in, zooming in, zooming in.

And that makes the job harder, but that's why you get better.

That's why the people that are the absolute top are the best, because they've continued to zoom in and zoom in and zoom in a lot.

And I, I don't know, I think.

And sorry, zoom in on what?

The level of resolution that they look at their craft with.

For you to deliver a joke that got this size of a laugh five years time.

You're like yeah, but I could have just clipped the end of that word just a tiny little bit better.

My pacing could have been a little bit more.

I know that my hands weren't perfect.

I know that my body language wasn't perfect.

I could have held eye contact on the first person just a second longer.

I could have smiled a little bit more.

However you refine your art form to really dial it in.

But when you're first starting, make words come out of mouth.

Publish blog posts online.

Draw illustrations.

Get a laugh.

Say my name.

Exactly.

So as you get better at something, you get better at something.

And you start to try and do the thing with an ever-increasing skill set.

You're more refined with what it is that you do.

The problem with that is that as you get better, your standards increase and that you're never done.

There's no point at which you'll feel like you've arrived.

And I think this is a question that I'm playing with myself, which is like am I going to regret that in retrospect?

Am I going to look back on a career where I was always looking over the shoulder of the present moment for the next thing I was going to do?

Or is that the game in order to be able to perform at the level that you want to?

I've kind of got this, I've kind of got this working theory that you probably can let go of 5 of the neuroses to gain probably 50 of the presence and the enjoyment.

And yeah, maybe it'll sacrifice a tiny little bit of performance.

You'll let a couple of things slide.

You'll make a couple of errors.

But it might be worth.

Another half of this is really fucking cool.

And I am here and my mind is where my feet are, as opposed to being like must get on stage, must say joke, must do.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I don't know.

Balancing those two things enjoyment in the moment and high standards are they're a really, really tough thing to do.

One thing I'm really trying to get over and I'd love your opinion on this, is like if I have a, A video that I really love making and I am having fun making it,

I'm having fun editing and I'm so excited.

And then I post.

My excitement is only as high as the video does after that.

At one point, I loved making that video.

I loved writing it.

I love shooting.

I love editing it.

And then I post.

And if it does bad, I go, wow, that excitement's now gone.

What is that?

Is that just the same as like if I tell a joke that I really thought was funny and the crowd doesn't laugh?

But it's different for me because if if, if a crowd doesn't laugh at a joke, I go okay, cool.

I have a thousand other I can now go to, or I know our now now okay, that's not funny, but I have another attempt at it in this next set.

But when it comes to a video, it's like all this happiness I once had for it.

If it does great.

And it's like, let's say that cyber truck video, for example, I had the idea.

I got super excited for it.

I moved it on my schedule.

I go, we have to shoot this.

I'm obsessed about it.

We shoot it.

It does great.

I go, fuck yeah, that's a perfect storm.

But there's also times where I have the same energy and I post and it goes, and I go, what the fuck?

Why can I not still have the excitement that I once had with it, because it didn't do what I thought it was capable of?

Yeah, I think in a perfect world, it would be lovely to say, I can just do it for the art form, man.

I know what is artistically honest and I know what's funny better than the audience knows what's funny.

I don't think you do.

I think if you're trying to do something that makes other people laugh and that doesn't happen, this is one of the problems with doing the video thing online.

I think at least part of it is the why question.

It's like, Was it because of the edit?

Was it because of the script?

Was it because of the acting?

Was it because of the joke?

Was it the premise?

Was it the timing?

Maybe it's because the Blue Jays lost.

Was it like, you know, what was the contributing factor?

And you're going to drive yourself crazy as opposed to really on stage.

The reasons that something doesn't work are pretty constrained.

It's like, wasn't funny enough.

Timing wasn't right.

Body language wasn't right.

So you only have a few number of variables.

So I think there's going to be less reflection on that.

But another part of it, like generally, is just, humans are social animals and you don't want to do something that other people don't respect or feel is good, like this is why, talking of tucker carlson uh, i thought it was kind of a meme that he doesn't check, he doesn't read the internet, like.

He literally doesn't have access to his own youtube channel, he doesn't have access to his own instagram, doesn't read anything at all and all he does is live on this fucking hundred acre plot of land in portland maine, like the middle of fucking nowhere, and does his thing, turns up, he has the talent that he has, he does his thing and then he fucks off and like that's the only way really, without the feedback mechanism that you can't second guess yourself.

That's also what i was thinking and it's like i'm at this point where i still post all my videos on instagram and tiktok.

It's still me, other apps, it's like other people running it, but like, for whatever reason, I still care so much about how a video looks on Instagram and TikTok, but I'm so in the weeds.

I'm so in it that like I post it and then I'm, I upload, I refresh 15 minutes later.

And it's like, that's not the mind of like a successful CEO.

It's, you know, it's like you kind of do like a monthly report or something.

And I'm like, okay, maybe it finally is time that I get somebody who uploads for me.

So I can do that.

So I can be like a bit of distance.

Yeah.

Just some distance.

And if I do look at a video, I look at it a week later instead of day of, and I'm like my thoughts are, my feeling towards the video are like live.

You know, it's like I post something this morning and I go well, how's my day going to be?

You know, instead it's like completely determined by how this video performs, which is so stupid.

It went well, I'm good.

It went badly.

I'm a piece of shit.

I mean, dude, it's, it's, um, Michael Blasson, who I do a podcast with love the guy.

We have the same brain where it's like, I can tell when a video is doing well for him.

And he can tell when a video is doing well for me.

Because it's like, you got a little pep in your step.

What's going on?

I'm like, dude, 13 million on this stand-up clip.

And it's just... I hate that it is the nature of our game.

But it's like to your point, we all love to feel like we did something good.

The same way that if i turn a blind eye to my instagram page and i'm not posting anymore, i would still want the social media guy to be like dude, this hit 10 million and i'm like fuck yeah, that's awesome now.

That shouldn't make my day any better or worse.

It should be like cool, note it down.

But it's not like i should start skipping around town and everybody gets a raise and i mean sure maybe, but like it should like.

How much social numbers affect my day is just.

I'm like you know it's.

I know social media is getting to me when I walk outside and I go wow, the birds are lovely today.

I'm like, dude, you're losing it.

They've always been there.

Touch grass, buddy.

Because you hit 14 million today.

Yeah.

That did pretty well.

Yeah.

Um, it was a 5.6 million on a standup club.

We'll take it base.

Good base hit.

But um, for me it's like I want to just be a little more disconnected in that Tucker Carlson world.

But then there's that voice in my head that fights for it.

That goes, yeah.

But being online is good because now you know what the trends are.

Now you know what to make the videos on.

But this is the kind of the vicious game of social media that there are diamonds in the rough.

True.

Right.

You scroll online for long enough and you will come across something.

Some inspiration.

You're like, yeah, that's my inspo.

Do you know the idea of a signal versus noise?

Are you familiar with this?

No, I like this though.

Okay.

Imagine that you were a trader and you were trading a particular stock and you were to check the price of this stock every single day.

There would be loads of intraday movement, right?

It would be up and down.

Or you check it every 30 minutes.

And then in another version, you check it every day.

And then in another version, you check it every month.

And then another, you check it every year.

Across a year, there is loads of noise.

But what you're actually getting is signal, something which is reliable to the trajectory of this thing over time.

If you check it every half an hour, it's almost all noise.

You even said it yourself that sometimes video might launch slow and go pick up after five days or whatever.

And you're like, huh, that came into line quite nicely because you've prioritized noise over signal.

And the only way that you can really sort of select out noise and select for signal is to reduce how frequently you check and, to like, do it at bigger chunks of time.

Certainly I know for me when we started having somebody else post on my behalf.

Unless I'm like, it's 10 am central time, I should.

A video has gone up 30 minutes ago.

I don't know that it's gone.

And another thing that's been really good is and this is from my housemate, George he always has a couple of things in the tank and he publishes something that he wrote a few weeks ago.

So you know, let's say that you start off writing but before you begin you have four um videos articles, illustrations or whatever.

And then number one goes out on week number like four, and then number two goes out on week number five.

Yeah, like you're always moving like this, that distance, i think, between creation and publish gives you a little bit more like ah well, it's great because you're also not creating based on last video's performance.

If a video bomb, now you're stressed, you're like i need a hit.

And now you're writing under the pretense of i need a hit, and i swear the internet knows when a video is forced.

If it is forced, the internet's like an internet.

Hey, this is desperate energy.

Yeah, this is a fun zone buddy, the videos that always do the best to me are like the ones that i like, had the most fun creating.

So when you distance yourself one to four, like you just said, now that gives you some space to be like Hey, I made this when I wasn't even thinking about these other videos.

So true.

I got it.

Yeah.

I'm about like, like two, I'm like a week out every week, but maybe that's not enough time.

Certainly with this.

If you did that, if you did the little bit more inventory buffer plus somebody else posted on your behalf.

Uh, I think like OK, when we're starting to create a little bit of distance right, to get away from the noise and to get into the signal.

Yeah, I like that a lot.

I've never seen it so clear getting a signal.

I've never seen it so clear.

But I also don't know any CEO who is standing over the shoulder looking at their Squarespace or the Shopify every 30 minutes.

Like, what's it selling?

What's it selling?

It's like they come in the morning.

How we do?

Good, bad.

OK, they're not refreshing.

I totally get it.

And I think you're right. but I wouldn't be too hard on yourself because two things.

First off, this is the training mode that got you to where you are.

It's the same founder mentality like startup demon mode, DGN fucking thing that everybody who rips a project off a launchpad has.

It's like, I did everything.

I like, came up with the ideas and I worked out like, what's my handle going to be on social media?

And like, do I use fucking After Effects or do I need to use Premiere Pro?

Or like, is CapCut any good?

I don't know.

And how do I fuck I exported it in the wrong, like it's 25 frames per second or 24, 30 looks weird.

Like, you know, all of these things.

So now you you know getting from 97 to 98 are the inheritor of the guy that got from naught to one and then got from like 10 to 20 and 20 to 30.

And you're like okay, all of that stuff was good for then, but the tools that got you here don't always get you there.

They don't always get you to the next thing.

It's like, um, like, let's say you've got a big journey to do.

And part of the journey involves you getting across a river.

You know okay, I've got this boat and I'm like fucking rowing across this river.

And now you're on land and you realize that you're still carrying a fucking boat.

And you're like, that was a tool for that.

I need it for then.

I like that.

I think I need it now.

Um, but it's hard to let go of.

Cause you're like, I know this works.

I might need this later on.

Or you almost have like a self-esteem or like a pride.

You're like Yeah, but I've always been, I've always been, but there's certain things that I can leave behind.

It doesn't mean that I don't know how to use it anymore.

I mean, the posting, for instance, is a really good one because it's such a low skill level thing.

And presuming that you like trust somebody to be the poster you're like I can probably get someone else to press the button for me.

I can probably get.

I remember when we first started using a company to do our Instagram clips and it was like we would get them to do it and send it to us for us to post.

And then you're like involving yourself unnecessarily in the process of doing the thing.

But this is.

I have this idea called the lonely chapter, which is like, as you move through any stages of development, it's hard to resonate with an old set of friends.

And you're worried about whether or not you're doing the right thing.

And each different hurdle that you get over is part of the selection mechanism of why people don't change.

It's the same as why people don't delegate responsibility.

They're terrified.

They're like, oh, fuck.

That's the same.

Yeah, if i don't do this thing?

What if it goes wrong?

What if something i don't know?

I've got scarcity mindset.

I'm concerned about the future like yeah, well it's.

I've had this trait before where i've hired somebody and then i go, you know, i'll just do it myself, and it's like those let's call it three employees who give me that made it that much harder for me to find that person.

But then i uh i had a guy work for me before.

His name was zach and he was like the best employee who came in and absolutely crushed.

I go, dude, you changed my whole perspective of what adding somebody to the team can be.

I had previous examples where I found like, ah, I wish there was difference here.

Or like, maybe you are, you kind of knew something better about that.

But like, I was skeptical about hiring certain positions.

I was skeptical about hiring like a everyday producer.

And then I hired this person.

I was like, oh, this is what somebody who is good at this job looks like. it freed up so much.

It was it allowed me to uh, you know, double my production and make it look that much better and really up the value of it.

But I was so scared for so long.

Cause I was like yeah, but this person kind of sucked, or that person kind of sucked, or freelancing with this guy sucked.

So sure.

But, but it's that same default of, of going to the negative versus the positive.

Well, I could hire, sorry, what did you say?

No, I uh, somebody asked the exact same question at the live show last week which was like i worked 70 can i say 70 or 80 hours a week, that dude in toronto.

So i worked 70 or 80 hours a week at this startup and i'm terrified of relinquishing any control at all and i need to make my first hire.

And uh, i was like one good bit of advice is try and have that first hire.

Be someone that goes well, because if it goes badly, you learn the lesson that you learned, which is like I can't trust people.

And all that an employee is is a, an unreliable GPT that I need to like, peer over the shoulder of and triple check their work.

It just makes me even more vigilant.

I'm just vigilant on behalf of somebody else as opposed to myself.

Wow.

That's great.

I think this is honestly dude, despite the fact that you're playing at such a huge level on social media.

I really think this is just par for the course of like anybody in a startup that's trying to build a business.

And they're like, that's also it.

It's like at one point I was only myself doing this.

And now it's like, I'm running this, you know, company that produces legit money.

And it's like, this is a company.

This is like when, when you zoom out and you look at the signal Hey now, and you look at the signal of the trajectory of the last year, you're like this is like a legit money-making company, but I'm too busy in the weeds doing shit that uh, you know uh, somebody else could do right out of college.

So to your point if you're going to have sushi for the first time, let it be at Nobu and not a Ralph's grocery store.

Or a 7-Eleven.

7-Eleven, yes.

I think I have that fear.

It's like I have a fear that I'm going to hire somebody and maybe hire them too quick.

And I go, ah, you don't know what you're doing with my Instagram.

Ah, you're fucking it up.

You're making it worse.

Nobody knows what they're doing with my Instagram.

Really?

No, that's the lesson that you would take.

You hire a person, first person doesn't go well.

It's like your first relationship, they end up cheating on you.

You're like, everybody's a cheater.

It's like you chose a cheater.

Or maybe it was you.

Maybe you're the problem.

Trevor Wallace, ladies and gentlemen.

Thank you so much.

I learned so much.

I've been a fan for so long.

I didn't even know that you followed me.

And then I saw, and I was like, dude, this has been happening.

I've been DMing you for years.

Oh, come on.

It was once.

You DMed me once.

All right, all right.

But I'm honored to be on here.

Yeah.

Follow that Huberman.

Live shows.

Where should people go?

Trevorwalls.com.

I'm touring the whole United States.

I think I have like 30 shows left on this tour.

Then we're filming a special in March in Phoenix, Arizona.

Tickets going to be announced very soon.

When does this come out?

A couple of weeks.

All right.

Well, maybe it's on sale.

TrevorWalls.com.

Thank you for having me, Chris.

And make sure to drink Element and Nudetonic.

Is that how you say it?

Yep.

Thank you.

Free ad reads.

Nudetropic?

Yeah, sure.

Is there kratom in this?

Yes.

Thanks for having me, Chris.

If you are looking for new reading suggestions, look no further than the Modern Wisdom reading list.

It is 100 books that you should read before you die.

The most interesting, life-changing and impactful books I've ever read, with descriptions about why I like them and links to go and buy them.

And you can get it right now for free by going to chriswillx.com slash books.

That's chriswillx.com slash books.

[Trevor Wallace: The Obsession, Creativity, and the Trap of Social Media Metrics]-[#1048 - Trevor Wallace - Autism is the New Stolen Valor]

📋 Summary

The Creative Obsession: Balancing Art, Metrics, and Personal Growth

The Paradox of Obsession and Presence

Navigating the "Noise" of Social Media

The Myth of the Golden Years

Finding Creativity in the Mundane

Conclusion: The Selection Mechanism of Growth

🎯Key Sentences

📝Key Phrases

📖 Transcript

[Trevor Wallace: The Obsession, Creativity, and the Trap of Social Media Metrics]-[#1048 - Trevor Wallace - Autism is the New Stolen Valor]

📋 Summary

The Creative Obsession: Balancing Art, Metrics, and Personal Growth

The Paradox of Obsession and Presence

Navigating the "Noise" of Social Media

The Myth of the Golden Years

Finding Creativity in the Mundane

Conclusion: The Selection Mechanism of Growth

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🎯Key Sentences

📝Key Phrases

📖 Transcript

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