This year I've been really rethinking my relationship with alcohol and so I decided to commit to Dry January to really kickstart 2025 and just test myself.
Heineken 00 is the perfect companion for Dry January because you feel like you're still participating when you're out for dinner with friends, out for drinks whilst you're still meeting your lifestyle goals.
I'm a big beer fan so I also love the taste of Heineken 00 plus being alcohol free you can enjoy whenever refreshment calls.
Heineken 00 is available at your local Heineken retailer or for delivery at heineken .com.
You must be 21 plus to purchase, enjoy Heineken responsibly and good luck with Dry January.
Hello everybody and welcome back to the psychology of your 20s, the podcast where we talk through some of the big life changes and transitions of our 20s and what they mean for our psychology.
Hello everybody, welcome back to the show, welcome back to another episode, new listeners, old listeners wherever you are in the world.
I am so glad that you have joined us for an episode that I am so very excited about.
It's been a long time coming, it's been in the works for a while, I'm bringing on a beautiful guest, a beautiful friend to talk about things like identity, rituals, creative inspiration, everything and anything in between.
Without further ado I'd love for you to introduce yourself, hello.
Hello, hi. Hi, nice to meet you all.
Yeah, big fan. Oh you're a big fan.
Big fan, big fan of the audience.
So who are you? That's a good question.
Yeah. Who am I? No, my name is Claude Bailey, my pronouns are they them, they and them.
I'm a filmmaker and more recently have started doing a lot of work in queer youth, queer youth art projects, workshops, development programs.
I don't really know how to sum it up but I am a big advocate for giving queer youth opportunities to express themselves and a lot of my filmmaking work because I write, direct and produce is you know centering queer youth as well.
I just I love them, they're the future.
They are, they are the future.
You did an amazing film recently didn't you?
I did. Can you talk about it a little bit?
I feel like people would love to hear about it.
Yeah I made a film called right here it premiered at Sydney Film Festival which was Yeehaw!
Oh, well Sydney Film Festival.
No, when I got the email I screamed in the street, it was a really gorgeous moment and I called my best friend and I was like it happened, it happened.
Were you crying? I did cry.
I would be crying. Yeah, it was I always went to that festival when I was much younger and wanted to be a filmmaker so then getting to have my film there was a really big moment.
But that film was my fifth short film and my last I think.
Really? Yeah, I'm done with short films anyway, but it was about a young non -binary person, they came out to their parents on their birthday, it didn't go very well, you don't really see that and then they materialize at their future selves birthday party and they see the life they're going to have and the community
they're going to have because I think a really big thing is that when you're a teenager or a kid, queer youth generally, you don't have any control over your environment.
You don't have any control over your school, over your family and so I wanted to give young people some tangible hope that's like if right now your environment is not it, it's coming.
I promise you because it happened for me and it happened for so many queer folk around me, so it's coming, you just got to and unfortunately hold tight because it's all yours and that's what the film's about.
Oh my god, that's an amazing message, that is beautiful.
I think we're gonna bring it to schools all around Australia this year, I'm working with Wear It Purple which is a non -for -profit queer youth organization and we're gonna try and get it to young people all around to be like yeah, have this little nugget of joy.
As someone who obviously we both grew up in Australia, I don't think there was any queer representation in any of my curriculum growing up, none at all.
Oh, not in curriculum, no way.
In any facet like you know and I went to a pretty progressive school and even within that environment it was like this isn't really spoken about and it's not something that was like I think people had access to or were able to be educated on which is so bizarre to me because I'm like it does make up
such an amazing vibrant part of our society, it's just part of everyday life for so many people even people who aren't queer.
So I'm really excited that you're able to do that.
Well that's what's very interesting is that I'm working with a lot of queer youth right now and they have a lot more access to online spaces and representation but what I'm finding is that even though they have all this access, they have the terminology, they have the language, they know it's out there,
they still though cannot touch it, it's beyond their grasps and out of those schools there's the QSA, the queer straight alliance and different pride groups and there's those spaces but it's still out of grasp, it's still not in reach and so I think it's still extremely important.
Very very delicious.
My fridge is now stocked with Heineken 00 and friends of mine will even join me for an evening or for an afternoon going alcohol free.
If you are also taking part in Dry January this year or just looking for your new favorite drink, Heineken 00 is it.
Heineken 00 is available at your local Heineken retailer or for delivery at Heineken .com.
You must be 21 plus to purchase.
Enjoy Heineken responsibly and good luck with Dry January.
Okay so if you're listening to this I'm guessing that you are in that tricky place.
I went to a Catholic girl school.
Oh wow. Yeah. Positive.
Yeah and I was in the closet but I didn't even know I was in the closet like I was in Narnia and I was living there and like I was in love with my best friend in high school but I didn't that didn't equate to me being queer I was just like oh I love her.
I actually have this joke that I'm a foster girlfriend for all of my exes.
They date me. I fix all of their emotional unavailability and immaturity and send them off to the next person who they inevitably start dating fairly long term.
I've been there quite a few times.
It is such a repeat experience for me but I think I've gotten it down to a bit of a science as to what to do in this situation.
That's really what I want to share today but firstly we need to examine why this experience brings up so many people out there but they don't they can't grasp but I didn't even know.
I had no idea so I think back to my younger self and I've so much love for them.
I've so much love because not that I had a really great upbringing and I had a really gorgeous time in high school but I just never really felt like myself.
I never felt comfortable in my skin.
I never really. The reasons don't seem so meaningful anymore.
It's not going to surprise any of you I hope that there is obviously a lot of psychology behind this reaction.
When we are in a relationship with someone we develop a very deep emotional attachment to them through things like shared memories, physical connection, intimacy, proximity, repeated interactions and of course an expectation about the future.
All of these experiences started when I did come out and then started to enter community.
I was like wow I just I was blind now I can see.
It was life -changing.
That sounds like a genuinely incredibly enlightening experience and one that I think that a lot of us don't really get.
Coming to terms with some part of our identity that has been concealed for some time even people who are listening to this who may not identify as queer were never official even if it was a situationship.
Our brains don't understand that.
All they understand is here is this person who is fulfilling this need for me, who is providing me with this closeness, who is touching me, who who I trust.
That is what's important for us and for our brains.
When that relationship ends this abrupt ending of those positive experiences the disconnect.
I know like that you know you like how you said you were in the closet and you didn't even know it.
Yeah! And now you're this amazing individual who is able to impact young people's lives with your message with your stories.
Like what was the kind of journey from that place when you're in high school to the place you are now?
I think the biggest um part of it was visibility.
I only really understood these things within me when things involved there.
Our body and our brains still crave this person because it doesn't forget that bond overnight or even within a few weeks and when they seemingly replace us that really solidifies the end of the chapter.
There is no more expectant thinking.
It's where I think the breakup truly starts.
For me it was very separate.
I realized I was gay or queer first and that was this slow experience through relationships and through having like I remember when I had my first crush outside of the person I loved in high school.
I it was very beautiful because I was like oh this wasn't just a one -time thing this is actually something inside of me and it took a while to walk that path because I had never done it before.
I didn't know anyone.
I felt like that one I did kind of alone.
And in them there's someone new in those memories.
There's a few other psychological elements to this as well.
When our ex starts dating someone new we feel the full impact of what we call sunk costs.
There's this concept called the sunk cost fallacy that I think really applies to the decisions we make towards that.
That was the most liberating and healing thing and that's why I say queerness is one of the most gorgeous things about my life because it was like oh these things yeah yeah they were not working for you for many different reasons.
Let's feel lovable and yeah and it was very relationship -based but gender has been the most personal thing to me and it was through I guess another relationship but I met someone who became one of my best friends who was trans is trans and I saw it acutely aware of what we have given up and what we
feel like we've wasted.
The love the time the intimacy maybe that could have gone somewhere else maybe that could have been poured into someone better.
Of course I think no experience is ever a waste.
Again because I had met other non -binary people and it just felt right it didn't really make sense I didn't understand it but just felt right and then people started using they them and it's not even about the words to be honest it's just about a feeling.
What do you mean it's not about the words because I feel like and I like I just feel like this is such an interesting thing because I think when we think about the political space and whatever and how politics and personal opinion and public opinion interacts with our lives like a big discussion is around
like the use of pronouns.
That's like the most exhausting part of all of it is that our identity as queer or trans people is the very physical and emotional after effects of a breakup with a further sense of rejection and diminished self -esteem.
Specifically I think we wonder what their decision says about us.
Really it doesn't say much about you know a hetero cis man might want to say that like oh my life's political because I could be cancelled.
That's not a political thing the same way that like abortion is a political thing or like you know access to curriculum or schools if you're someone who is transgender or non -binary is a fucking political thing these days.
That's why I say that if if I had it my way I would not talk about my gender experience with anyone because I don't have words for it still.
It has always been based in feeling and I can't really summarize it and what sucks is that pronouns are such an external thing.
People can misgender you every single day.
People say you're coming out every single day and that is exhaust.
Makes you feel inadequate and it makes you question whether everything that this person validated in you is perhaps not that special especially if your connection could be that.
I don't feel like woman I just want to exist and not be seen as either blah blah blah but I will talk about it because visibility is what granted me to feel like myself so I will do this so hopefully someone can listen and go oh I feel that within me as well because that is the most beautiful gift we
can give each other is that feeling of coming home to yourself so I will do it because I want others to feel this way but it's exhausting it's the most personal thing like just imagine any part of your identity that is like inside of you that you don't have words for it's like a little locked box having
to find words for it and be able to now if that experience is a repeated pattern if your ex -partners are always the first to move on that further reinforce I don't hate it I have found a way to love it because now I am finding ways to give other young people the opportunity to make work about it and and create
have expression yeah with it all but it's a really confusing thing yeah oh my gosh I can only imagine and it's actually really interesting for me to hear and be like I'm asking you these questions right now and the fact that you've like learnt to love this thing but then I think about my own experience
like no one's ever questioned my identity that way we kind of have it easy like I never have to explain that because it falls into a very like easy box for people to understand and I really do respect what you're saying about how it's like it comes with a lot of almost emotional burden would you say
that's the right word emotional labor emotional labor yeah but yet you still feel this duty to do it but I really owe them a whole lot because they've only made me so much better you know it's interesting because someone on the street your family member anyone asks you these questions about your transness
your queerness and for them it's just another chat another discussion another thing they're curious about it's a dinner table conversation for you it is the most personal and sacred part and these conversations sometimes are really beautiful and healing and gorgeous and I don't think they shouldn't
happen that's how we bridge understanding but there is a lot of times that there is no acknowledgement of how much emotional labor the person from the marginalized group has to do because they're experiencing so much all the time they're experiencing people saying horrible things on instagram or saying
things on the street that this isn't just another dinner table conversations is them having there is the dreaded self -comparison and figuring out their palm cards that they've had to work out how to talk about these things it's and it's just it is so personal and I think it's something that I always
like to say to you it's a dinner table conversation to me it's my heart yeah and I guess that kind of links back with what we were talking about how it's become quite politicized in a way that very few other elements of our identity other than like probably religion um have become politicized and even
then it's very different I think like it's like the minority olympics you hear about these days they're like every so many parts of our identity are politicized now it's confusing that you know if you say and honestly since coming out of non -binary I have gotten so many more opportunities work wise
and it's interesting I don't I go okay cool all my emotional labor I guess it's come down great this way in a you know weird strange way but nothing's good or bad it's just it's just what it is yeah which is a great way you're such a stoic I always say Claude is a stoic hedonist you love life for what it
what it contains but you're very much like it's finite I guess I yeah the fragility of life so you might as well enjoy it yeah oh yeah absolutely well with that in mind I feel like you're talking you you're talking a lot about this emotional labor which I think that someone like me can't understand right
like I'm never going to understand the way that you've already understood it at your age is there anything that you're like okay I wish people would just understand this about me or about the people that are like me or about the people that I have community with that isn't talked about much like what would you
say is a big misunderstanding that if you had the opportunity you could correct or something that you would love to be like okay you know you're at a dinner table conversation with your family um what's a question you wish wasn't asked that you could correct right now I think my main thing is to tell
them you don't have to understand it to respect it you I love if you are trying to understand it and come from a place of empathy and openness and and that you want to listen but you don't have to understand what it means to be non -binary or what it means to be trans or like the logistics of it all
that's not really your business and you maybe can ask depending on the relationship in the person but you don't have to understand to just respect it yeah that's the main thing because it is I always say it is uh a gift if someone gives you their vulnerability and their their insights in all of this because they're
living in every day and they're talking about it to all of their friends and people in their life all the time so if they want to give that to you that's really gorgeous but it should be like you should handle it as a gift not as just something that you take yeah which I think is like a great attitude
with many things like someone's giving you their time and their energy and their they're very carefully thought out words like you said you know those flashcards or most of information and things that they need to plan to say have you have you found that like in the conversations you've had with family
that there's people who haven't wanted to understand or haven't wanted to respect yeah all the time happens all the time you can sniff it instantly when someone is inquisitive and curious and wants to know and it's very different when someone doesn't give a fuck yeah what's what how can you tell the difference
because I feel like the line of questioning to begin with might be quite similar um you can just a lot of it is in the tone if someone's like they're arguing with you to some extent and that's really hard because they're arguing about your identity yeah it's not now their business I guess as well it's
just a strange thing and also if you want to actually understand versus I don't know what versus but if they judge or they're here to like hey I don't really get like I love when people in my life who you know aren't queer sit me down and be like hey I love you so much and I really want to get like
understand this part of you more can you tell me about it more and I think that was really beautiful um the film I made uh the actor in it the the the lead um was is this amazing uh non -binary person who I adore and they told me this really beautiful story that I feel like they won't mind me sharing
um the their mum who's also this amazing filmmaker who I'm a big fan of um she was like I love your queerness I want to understand it more it's one of my favorite things about you I cried because I was like oh my gosh that's stunning I've heard enough of oh I'll love you despite this or I love you no matter
what even like I want you to love me because of this because it's one of my favorite things about me yeah and I don't mean this with like fam I just mean this generally it's like a gorgeous thing about a person yeah I wish everyone could be queer it's the best thing about being alive it really is why
do you say that like when you talk about well I guess it's like that visibility we're talking about the community the community it's even out like outside of the relationships and queer intimacy which is also stunning yeah like well we were talking about that earlier like um that book that I've been
reading that was really really interesting and how it was about nominogamy uh nominogamy yeah open relationships polyamory and how so much of the hetero conceptualization of that idea has come from inspiration from from queer culture and queer identities and and people who have adopted that within um
like lesbian communities and whatnot and how the relationships that they have with each other has kind of almost been taken as inspiration for how us as a hetero as like you know as a hetero person approaches concepts like that it's like so fascinating so interesting honestly I wish everyone could get
a little portal into all the conversations I have with my queer friends because they about connection and about navigate like we I was having this good king the rosy retrospection the next stage is now what what do we do next to stop caring to close that chapter and move on perhaps not into a new relationship
but to a place of almost like mental freedom well that's really the question of the day isn't it so we're going to dive into that and so much more in just a second you know I love having a cheeky drink with friends post work or a beer with dinner but this year I have committed to once someone always
go out go for that like that you should again depends on everyone's moral compasses and relationships and dynamics but also it's all about communication and it's all about being conscious of other people's feelings and like queer people because we have to do that all the time our pool is a lot smaller
yeah plus it genuinely actually tastes very very delicious my fridge is now stocked with heineken 00 and friends of mine will even join me for an evening or for an afternoon going alcohol free if you are also taking part in dry january this year or just looking for your new favorite drink heineken 00
is it heineken 00 is available at your local heineken retailer or for delivery at heineken .com you must be 21 plus to purchase enjoy heineken responsibly and good luck with dry january to alter baby a baby queer your your queer you maybe haven't come out or you don't have much community oh gosh it is stunning
because no matter where like I just went to the US last year and it was my first time going overseas queer like out and queer yeah anywhere I went I would go to a queer bar when we learn our ex has moved on we want to do one of two things number one is to completely self -isolate maybe due to the shame
of this perceived rejection to kind of lick our wounds languish in the self -pity and that's okay self -pity feels nice because it provides us with emotional validation and the permission to feel sad that perhaps we really need that we really need to experience the second option experience and a lot of people
have had that in isolation or you know completely by themselves regionally in their catholic or girl school whatever it is everyone has had a very similar experience and different ones but like a core thing so it just connects you in a way that you know that's why a lot of communities where we call
it chosen family you know because a lot of queer people's family don't always accept is confronting emotions what we would call escapism or displacement so in psychology displacement occurs when we satisfy an impulse with a substitute object you know we can't get back at our ex by yelling or screaming
or by having a fight so we're going to displace our anger by getting with other people hoping that that will hurt them the way their decision or their new relationship has hurt us i keep saying sest pot that is not it but like you know no but like a gorgeous community yummy dish oh yeah it's gorgeous
it does sound really beautiful that's an amazing i think outlook and especially when as you were talking about like the baby queers i've never heard that i think that's like the most beautiful phrase ever and people here were saying like you're listening to this or even the film you made which was targeted
towards people who might be in like a pretty dark and disappointed in fact a lot of those psychological theories surrounding breakups would support this reaction i want to quickly look at the addiction model and the stages of grief model as an explanation for why we should allow ourselves to feel this hurt
deeply and then what to do next so the addiction model of heartbreak is kind of this psychological concept that and they might be listening to this with fear or excitement so like do you have any words of wisdom any advice for people who are in that situation i think that coming out is quite archaic
because you if you are in a position that you do not feel safe to i'm putting air quotes come out yeah with your family or cultural group or religious group whatever it is you can for your own um safe drugs things like dopamine and oxytocin those are associated with the pleasure and bonding we experience
in a relationship but they're also associated with addiction so when the relationship ends the sudden withdrawal of these chemicals leads to those feelings of sadness anxiety and even physical symptoms like nausea but in only safe spaces that is okay it is it doesn't matter because it is up to you and your
safety and that's what's really hard and i drill home about all of this as well so much of queerness is about safety that's why we gather in community that's why we have our echo chambers is because we do not feel safe out in the world all the time overseas there's so many anti -queer laws in so many
different countries like there is a reason we congregate at the bearded tit and you know our contact by giving it time they will start to lessen you have to push those cravings the withdrawal the potential for relapse that temptation you need to push that out of your mind and really power through in order
to rewire your neurochemistry away from this people that are yours and you're gonna find them it's stunning you know i love having a cheeky drink with friends post work or a beer with dinner but this year i have committed to completing dry january to start the new year off fresh and to really kind of kick
start the lifestyle i want to have for the next 12 months heineken 00 is the perfect companion for this journey because it has 0 .0 alcohol so i can still socialize enjoy myself get out there without feeling like i'm missing out plus it genuinely actually your ex has moved on there is that sense of a closed
chapter there is that sense that you will not see them again there is a real pain looking back at those positive memories so to push through that emotional experience you have to go through zero zero is it heineken 00 is available at your local heineken retailer offer delivery at heineken .com you must
be 21 plus to purchase enjoy heineken responsibly and good luck with dry january claud you do some amazing things for your emotional and your mental and your spiritual well -being i would say that really kind of i drew me to you when we first met um and then as i like started following along with like
some of the things you're posting online and then some of the discussions we've had recently it's just become even more prominent to me like what an amazing inspiration you are for the the the specific like activities that you do anger is next you may really resent this person for what you've gone through
all of their negative qualities are very very clear you really you really hate them but i do but i have a structure that i've been doing for the last three years yeah um that every month i go on a solo date to an italian restaurant you can choose your own you don't have to be italian that's just what i
like to be vietnamese whatever you like but i like to do italian so i love italian food um and i book myself into a restaurant i bring my journal and every time as well i book there always like just for one person i'm like yeah babe well at the big at the start of the solo dates i would be a bit timid
and be like yeah it's just me but no now i'm like yes it's just me i go to a different italian restaurant every single time and i have these set of questions that i you know ask myself but depression is is very quiet it's very very sad it's where the real breakup i think begins the tears the sadness
and what did you do today and i write in extreme detail because that will be so interesting to look back on when i'm an old old person um and then i ask what are you looking forward to and i do little dot points and i do what's on your mind or in your heart and i just let myself splurge whatever is taking
up brain space and then what are you proud of yourself for and i do little dot points and then the last three texts i receive because i think that's just another interesting thing to see and i've been doing that every single month for the last three years and it is such a beautiful thing like a gift
to yourself every month but also a moment of reflection and to see what you want to what you're looking forward to you have worked through every stage of this natural cycle of the death of the relationship it's wild every time i say what are you looking forward to or what do you want everything happens
like really like it it always does and also like it could be big things it could be small things but it just keeps you on track for what you really want in your life and i think having rituals like that is just a really gorgeous thing to be able to check in with yourself and continually check in with your
gut and that you're on the path that you want to be on because we have a short time on this earth we really do but it's also the longest thing we're ever going to know because it's like human you know the human time like that's all we know but it's the longest but also shortest thing because it's inevitably
going to end so i want to be living my life how i fucking want to like and it's your time to listen to all of those amazing breakup songs always prioritizing my well -being my pleasure my joy and so it's something it's a way for me to continually do that because it's very easy in life to get swept away
and feel monotonous or disassociated or out of touch and get into a routine that you're you're not in touch with yourself so it's something it really allows for me to continually check in yeah and i feel like those rituals are such an important part of our 20s and i love what you're saying about knowing
that like and hoping that you're going to get to the age where you can be reflective on these points and being like i'm going to be able to track my development and like my goals and then things like that and also i read back these entries from you know a few years ago and the things that when i would say
what's in your mind or what's in your heart and i'd read those not to say cruel things of my anxieties or whatever was happening years later months later that's fluff i don't remember it or i it's not important to me anymore and it teaches me that when i'm feeling anxious about something or i my brain is spiraling
about something that that is always transitory like it is it isn't gonna be there for long so if you're feeling it let it swell but also there are times to externalize and step out of it because it's really not going to be there forever some things are but a lot of things are just going to float away
and you're not going to really remember it yeah i have this saying that i stay quite a bit on the podcast which is that like if it's not going to matter in five years you shouldn't think about it for longer than five minutes it's not going to matter for a month you shouldn't you know it's well that's
the thing right it's like and i totally have that experience as well which is like why i also am a huge proponent of journaling of even some way keeping track of of your journey through life i like read back on this journal entry from like 2017 which is what like six years ago yeah and i was like talking
about this person i was like i'm not gonna say their name because i feel like i don't know they are a real person but i was like let's call them i was like lucy said this really mean thing to me and then you know anna was like saying this thing and that and i was so annoyed and i was so mad and like
blah blah blah i don't even remember who those people are like i was reading back on that journal entry and i was like who is anna who is lucy like i don't have any idea of who they are but i think that like especially in this like like this decade of life where it's like this is our first decade of adulthood
everything feels so permanent and so severe and we no longer have like the shelter of our families and the shelter of being young to kind of protect us things can feel so much more serious than they actually are but also flip that we are still so young your 20s we were talking about this before uh famously
the time of making mistakes experimenting working out who you are so it's also that it's okay to go through all those growing pains still you know you're not you haven't got your shit sorted in your 20s whatsoever yeah no literally i feel like and it's so interesting um i think like meeting other people
who are doing something similar and like doing a creative thing and being like whoa like this is i never expected that i'd end up here and i always think about who i was 10 years ago or five years ago and i'm like whoa this person would never have really been able to conceptualize or have any understanding
of you know the loves that i've had the mistakes that i've made the moves that i've made like that's gonna keep happening i know and that's like actually such a beautiful thing to me because i think sometimes i get quite worried about like the passing of time and i'm like oh my god this is so stressful
that like life is so finite and there's so much i want to do and you know time just keeps passing and then i'm like the fact that i like look back on the last five years of my life and i'm like you know by that in five years time i won't be i won't even be 30 yet and i will have all of those experiences
and so many more yet again and like i just cannot wait for it it makes me feel so optimistic to reflect and then also look forward i don't know if you have that same experience i've always loved getting older i've always just i've every time i get a year old i go thank the lord just i love getting older
i can't wait i love being this age i'm excited to be my 30s i'm excited to be my 40s i'm excited to be my 50s i don't want to rush it but i love getting older i love juicing more experiences up and becoming who i am because every year it gets better like oh it's also hard something like last year was fucking
hard but it was every year i'm just getting closer and closer to myself and i was saying to you before and this might be different and claudia in a year's time would be like what the fuck man what are you saying but i don't get nervous anymore i have i feel so confident in myself and that is so cool
and maybe you know i like to say this quote i heard somewhere which is you will lose yourself over and over again and you will find yourself over and over again so i'm sure there are times i will feel extremely nervous and anxious and all those things but as i keep getting older i just feel more in myself
and i think that's a really nice thing to look forward to because time gives you that well yeah like you did go through a really rough time last year like we talked about this the other day right and it was i didn't live it and even hearing you speak about it i was like that sounds hopeful and so traumatic
and so what do you think is well you know there's been circumstantial things that have changed but like the fact that you're talking about you're talking about how you don't have any anxiety and how your life just keeps getting better like why do you think you've been able to shift into that perspective
like what do you think has changed in the way you see the world or the way you address your life or focus on your life yeah that has created that shift because i'm sure that a lot of people are listening to this being like wow living without anxiety that sounds absolutely blessed well i also want to
acknowledge that a lot of people you know have anxiety or depression or any other kind of um yeah mental health conditions exactly that is outside of their control and i'm not like your mind regular therapy if you can and cultivating beautiful friendships cultivating beautiful and deep self -awareness
and self -worth i remember after my last breakup i really kind of went into this realm of embracing my inner divine feminine i like wrote out my affirmations i listened to music that made me feel powerful and i saw every day as one more step between me and my ex one more day that they knew nothing about and when they
inevitably moved on i try i wake up and circumstantial things i cannot control everything is shit and i can't control that then fair enough to feel all those things but if i wake up and everything is okay for the most part in my immediate life like obviously the world is a bit cooked so yeah you know
i understand when people can tap into that but if i wake up and right they found someone that was better for them and i'll find someone that's better for me and that is all that we can kind of hope for and that's something that i think a new relationship wasn't going to give me a rebound wasn't going
to give me it wasn't going to fulfill that need and the work i needed to do for myself you know at the end of the day you're not your relationship status and if your ex is choosing to move on really quickly with someone else they haven't done the work that you are going to have the privilege to do and your
world is not on fire try and have the best fucking day because your world will be on fire some days and you cannot control that and you will not be able to have the best day so a huge thing that just happened when i thought that my mum was going to die and then coming out the other side of that is going
okay great it didn't actually and that's not the kind of person that anyone listening to this podcast is going to be and as a final reminder i just want to extend some love i know so deeply how much this hurts how it feels to perhaps be forgotten or feel replaced that is not the case that is definitely
not the case and even if it was that has freed you that has really allowed you to do the work that you need to do and allowed you to move on because let's see the brighter side here and i i completely agree with you like one of my friends was saying to me the other day that her therapist was like um
listen like your life is going to be painful there are going to be things that you cannot control things that are outside of your comfort zone external things like illnesses like death losing your job but being able to be like what is with enjoyed it i think it is so fascinating to look at the science
and the psychology behind why we feel this way why it is normal and to kind of eliminate some of that shame and that sense of you know i shouldn't feel bad i i shouldn't feel sad about this you know you totally should feel sad if you want to feel sad it's a completely normal natural psychological reaction to
a breakup to the after effects to an experience of rejection so every single day i'd wake up i'd get my coffee i'd go and put it on my special rock and i'd go for a swim and every time i put my head under the water and i came up i felt like a moment of pure joy and catharsis and then i'd go and sit
on my rock drink my coffee and just journal and always like having that every morning as a morning ritual was so healing and gorgeous and again another gift to myself at our patreon i really appreciate all the support you have provided me over there and finally oh my gosh my ramble my spiel at the end
of these episodes is becoming very long need to do something about that but if you're not already following me at instagram i'm at that psychology podcast if you have an episode suggestion actually we're looking for some new ideas so send it over and we might just have a look into it so thank you so much
for listening really important i think that's an amazing point to maybe wrap up we've had so many conversations pain and beauty pain and beauty yeah we're kind of philosophizing aren't we we're just getting into like very i feel like every time we we talk we have these like the conversations just go
into this like entirely like we could be teaching a university course right now about hedonism and about stoicism and about the the reality of pain and whatnot but um whilst you're still meeting your lifestyle goals i'm a big beer fan so i also love the taste of heineken 00 plus being alcohol free you
can enjoy whenever refreshment calls heineken 00 is available at your local heineken retailer or for delivery at heineken .com you must be 21 plus to purchase enjoy heineken responsibly and good luck with dry january like you were talking about and who better to take advice from than this amazing person but also i
take so much not take so much but i learn so much from queer youth as well i want to say but like it's not just like oh the little baby queers like they are the future and they are teaching us everything and they are on it honestly like i feel like this i feel like often when we talk like the narratives
around the queer community are often like we said politicized so it's like really beautiful that you came on and we're talking about community and something that i think is not often recognized by people beyond that space and and beyond that community it's the best kept secret it is a beautiful secret
and i'm so glad that you shared it with me i feel very very privileged and very blessed so the listeners yes and you listeners you're in on the secret as well oh a little secret circle um well thank you for coming on and if you did enjoy this episode please feel free to leave a five star review on apple
podcast spotify whatever you're listening right now follow us on instagram at that psychology podcast if you want to hear more um i'm sure i'd also tag you there of course hopefully oh you know we you know what's gonna happen so if you want to follow along with their work i would really recommend it
you can um maybe you should pin that post about your solo italian dates i don't know how to pin things but i'll learn it's incredible i really i want that to be like common knowledge how to pin things or the solid both okay i'll learn how to follow days yeah i'll give you a tutorial and thank you again for listening
and we will see you next week for another episode this year i've been really rethinking my relationship with alcohol and so i decided to commit to dry january to really kickstart 2025 and just test myself heinikin 00 is the perfect companion for dry january because you feel like you're still participating
when you're out for dinner with friends out for drinks whilst you're still meeting your lifestyle goals i'm a big beer fan so i also love the taste of heinikin 00 plus being alcohol free you can enjoy whenever refreshment calls heinikin 00 is available at your local heinikin retailer or for delivery
at heinikin .com you must be 21 plus to purchase enjoy heinikin responsibly and good luck with dry january
