Welcome to English as a Second Language podcast number 959.
A Territorial Dispute This is English as a Second Language podcast, episode 959.
I'm your host, Dr Jeff McQuillan, coming to you from the Center for Educational Development in beautiful Los Angeles California, USA.
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This episode is a dialogue between Roberta and Eli about territorial disputes when two countries have disagreements about who owns a certain piece of land.
Let's get started.
So this is McQuillan land.
Well, that depends on whom you ask.
This area has been under territorial dispute since 1963.
Who else claims it?
Its neighbor, Saland.
Saland annexed it after the brief war in 1963.
But McQuillanland refuses to recognize the change in boundaries.
I didn't know that.
McQuillanland contends that the demarcation for the border is this river, but Saland says that it rules over this entire valley.
Since most of the people who live here consider themselves McQuillanlanders.
They say possession is nine-tenths of the law.
Wasn't there a treaty at the end of the conflict?
There was, but the wording was vague and the dispute has continued to this day.
So if we committed a crime right here, right now, which country would have jurisdiction?
Let's not find out.
Our dialogue begins with Roberta saying to Eli, So this is McQuillan land.
Eli says, well, that depends on whom you ask.
It depends on the person you ask, Eli is saying, whether this is considered McQuillan land or not.
He says, this area has been under territorial dispute since 1963.
When we say something is under dispute, D-I-S-P-U-T-E, we mean that people disagree about it.
Often it's a disagreement that has been going on for many years.
A territorial T-E-R-R-I-T-O-R-I-A-L dispute is a disagreement about who owns a certain piece of land.
The word territorial comes from the noun territory, which is another way of referring to land owned by a certain country.
Roberta says, who else claims it?
To claim, C-L-A-I-M, here means to say that you own it, that it is yours.
If I say, for example, the United States claims the island of Guam in the South Pacific, I mean the United States says that they own Guam, that it is theirs.
Here, the word refers to owning a certain piece of territory, a certain area of land.
Eli says that the neighbor of McQuillan Land, Sayland, claims this area.
Sayland annexed it after a brief war in 1963, Eli tells us.
To annex, A-N-N-E-X, means to annex.
Add some area of land to your land to say it is yours.
In Los Angeles, for example.
The city of Los Angeles, over the years, has annexed certain areas that were not part of the city but that then became part of the city.
The city is taking ownership of a certain part of land.
Countries can annex certain areas of land from other countries.
Basically, they're stealing it from other countries.
But they often have reasons and justifications for why they are taking the land.
Ceyland annexed this land where Eli and Roberta are standing after a brief or short war in 1963.
But, Eli continues, McQuillan land refuses to recognize the change in boundaries.
A boundary, B-O-U-N-D-A-R-Y, is a line that separates two different pieces of land, usually.
That's how it's being used here.
We might also say border, B-O-R-D-E-R.
That's what separates two pieces of land, in this case two different countries.
McQuillan Land refuses to recognize the change in boundaries.
To recognize is to say, okay, yes, we agree.
In this case, McQuillan Land would have to agree that Sayland owns that particular piece of land.
Of course, they don't.
Everyone knows that Sayland does not own this piece of land, that they illegally took the land back in 1963.
But...
For the sake of the story, for the purposes of this story, we will not take sides.
We will not decide who is right, McQuillanland or Sayland.
We all know McQuillanland is right, but I won't say that at least more than three or four more times.
Roberta says, I didn't know that.
She didn't know that McQuillanland refused to recognize the change in boundaries.
Eli says, To say that McQuillan land contends C-O-N-T-E-N-D-S that something is true means that McQuillan land says this in an argument or in a dispute.
We use the verb to contend in this context when we are talking about two people who disagree about something.
What I contend is what I think is true.
McQuillanland contends that the demarcation for the border is this river.
Demarcation D-E-M-A-R-C-A-T-I-O-N refers to the process of setting or establishing boundaries or borders, especially when these are being changed from the way they were before.
The demarcation for the border would be the determination of where the border is, where the border between, in this case, McQuillan Land and Say Land is.
McQuillan Land says the demarcation for the border is this river.
But saland says that it rules over this entire valley.
To rule over an area means to be in charge of, to own, to officially be the owner of that area.
Usually we talk about countries ruling over certain areas.
Salan says it rules over this entire valley.
A valley, V-A-L-L-E-Y, is the place or land in between two hills or two mountains, more typically.
A valley often has a river that goes through it.
Eli says, since most of the people who live here consider themselves McQuillanlanders, they say possession is nine-tenths of the law.
Most of the people who live in this area consider themselves, that is, they think of themselves as being citizens of McQuillan land.
That is what a McQuillan lander would be, I guess.
They say possession is nine-tenths of the law.
This is an old expression that means that when there is a disagreement about who owns something, the person or, in this case, the country that actually has possession of it, that actually has it with them or has it, in this case, under their control, is the legal owner.
To possess something means to have it.
You can possess something that you don't own.
You can own something that you don't possess.
To own something means that it legally belongs to you.
To possess something means to actually have it.
So I own a car, but if someone steals my car, I no longer possess my car.
I don't have it in my possession.
We could say possession is nine-tenths of the law, means that if you actually have it, that's the most important thing and that in some ways that is more proof that you own something.
Of course, that isn't really true, but it's an expression that people use to indicate that It doesn't matter what other people say about who owns a certain thing.
It's actually having it that is the best way of determining the true owner.
I'm not talking about the way American law actually works, however.
This has nothing to do with the laws of the US or any other country.
It has to do with the way people think about things.
Roberta says, wasn't there a treaty at the end of the conflict?
A treaty T-R-E-A-T-Y is a formal agreement between two countries about some important issue or topic.
A conflict C-O-N-F-L-I-C-T is a war when two countries are fighting or when two people are fighting.
That could also be called a conflict.
Roberta is asking if there was a treaty at the end of the 1963 conflict.
Eli says there was.
But the wording was vague, and the dispute has continued to this day.
Wording W-O-R-D-I-N-G refers to the language that was used to express something, especially if it's in an official or legal document.
The word vague, V-A-G-U-E, means unclear, uncertain, difficult to understand.
If someone is being vague with you, they're not giving you a clear answer.
We would say they're not giving you a straight answer.
If the wording is vague and it's not clear when you read the treaty what it actually says.
That's true with a lot of laws, I think.
Eli says the dispute, the disagreement, has continued to this day, meaning up until the present time.
Roberta says so, if we committed a crime right here, right now.
To commit a crime means to break the law, to do something against the law, like stealing my car, for example.
Jurisdiction J-U-R-I-S-D-I-C-T-I-O-N is the official legal power that a government has over people in a certain area.
In the United States, for example, there are many different cities within a state that The police in each city have jurisdiction over the people in that city, but they can't go to another city and arrest people.
The police don't have jurisdiction in the other cities.
States and cities and other governments talk about jurisdiction to refer to who has the authority, who has the power to determine what happens in this specific area.
Eli doesn't want to find out which country would have jurisdiction if they committed a crime, and that's why he ends our dialogue by saying let's not find out meaning let's not do something wrong and then, by that process, discover who has jurisdiction.
That sounds like a pretty good idea to me.
Now let's listen to the dialogue, this time at a normal speed.
So this is McQuillan land.
Well, that depends on whom you ask.
This area has been under territorial dispute since 1963.
Who else claims it?
Its neighbor, Sayland.
Ceylan annexed it after the brief war in 1963, but McQuillanland refuses to recognize the change in boundaries.
I didn't know that.
McQuillanland contends that the demarcation for the border is this river, but Ceylan says that it rules over this entire valley.
Since most of the people who live here consider themselves McQuillanlanders.
They say possession is nine-tenths of the law.
Was there a treaty at the end of the conflict?
There was, but the wording was vague and the dispute has continued to this day.
So if we committed a crime right here, right now, which country would have jurisdiction?
Let's not find out.
There's no relationship between our scriptwriter, Dr. Lucy Say, and Sayland in this script.
It's just a coincidence.
From Los Angeles, California, I'm Jeff McQuillan.
Thank you for listening.
Come back and listen to us again right here on ESL Podcast.
English as a Second Language podcast is written and produced by Dr Lucy Say, hosted by Dr Jeff McQuillan.
Copyright 2013 by the Center for Educational Development.
