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Now, it's showtime.
From the brains behind Brains On, it's Smash Boom Best.
The show for people with big opinions.
Hi, I'm Molly Bloom, and this is Smash Boom Best, the show where we take two things, smash them together and ask you to decide which one is best.
Today, we've got two ways of reaching out.
One starts with a ring, the other a ding, It's calling versus texting.
Whether you like to type or talk, we're sure you'll have a lot to say about this one.
Defending the tradition of talking on the phone.
It's the host of the Heavyweight Podcast, Jonathan Goldstein.
Howdy do.
And here to hit send for the art of the text.
It's Kalilah Holt, producer of the Heavyweight Podcast.
Hello, or should I say hand wave emoji?
And here to judge this clash of the communication styles is none other than Ella from Oregon City.
Ella is on the swim team, plays flute and saxophone, loves to make art and has lots of bracelets on both of her arms.
Welcome, Ella.
Hi.
Okay Ella, since this is a podcast, we cannot see your amazing bracelets.
So can you give us a sense of the scope of your bracelets?
I have probably like 25 on right now.
Wow.
Have you made all of them?
I've probably made half of them.
Incredible.
What are we talking about?
Like string, beads, all of the above?
All of the above.
Wow.
Do you have a favorite one?
I recently made one with soda tabs and it's really cool and it's stretchy.
That's very impressive.
Just soda tabs?
Yes.
Well, and string.
What is the oldest bracelet that you have on?
I have one that I got in sixth grade and it says kindness ambassador on it.
And I have worn it for three years.
It's amazing.
So the ones on your arms right now, are they like an everyday?
You wear each one every day, or do you change it up?
Sometimes I change it up, but most of them I keep it on like all the time.
Very cool.
Okay, so you also make other kinds of art besides bracelets.
What other kind of media do you use to make art?
I love drawing and painting and stuff, but I also like music.
Oh, yes, you play saxophone and flute.
So I'm wondering when you're playing flute versus when you're playing saxophone, is there like a vibe shift that you feel, or is it kind of the same?
It's definitely different vibes, because I play more like jazz music on the saxophone and then I do more like popular songs or like concert music on the flute.
So when you're playing the saxophone, if you said hello in your like saxophone playing voice, like what would that sound like?
Oh, I don't know.
I'd probably be like, hello.
Nice.
And how about your flute playing voice?
What would that hello sound like?
Hello.
Excellent.
Excellent.
Well, will Ella side with texting or phone calls?
Let's see.
First, the rules of the game.
Every debate consists of four rounds.
The declaration of greatness, the micro round, the sneak attack. and the final six.
After each round, our judge Ella, will award points to the team that impresses her the most, but she'll keep her decisions top secret until the end of the debate.
Listeners, we want you to judge too.
Mark down your points as you listen.
At the end of the show, head to our website smashboomorg, and vote for whichever team you think won.
Kalila, Ella, and Jonathan, are you ready?
Oh, I'm ready.
I hope so.
I'm ready, too.
Then it's time for the Declaration of Greatness.
In this round, our debaters will present a well-crafted, immersive argument in favor of their side.
Then they'll each have 30 seconds to rebut their opponent's statements.
We flipped a coin, and Jonathan, you're up first.
Tell us why we should answer the call of talking on the phone.
What's the sound of being loved?
A heartbeat?
No, that's just body plumbing.
Is it someone saying, I love you?
I'd argue actions speak louder than words, which is why to me, the sound of being loved is...
A phone call.
It says, hey, I like hearing your voice.
I like the way you laugh, your awkward pauses.
It says I want to spend my precious minutes in real time with you, even if I can't be there in real life.
A text just says shoot, I just remembered you asked me a question yesterday and I'm going to write you back while I finish up on the toilet.
Phone calls are efficient.
Oh sure, texters will say a text is quick, to which I say, what are you rushing for?
More scrolling to get to?
But also, texts can be slow.
How many times have you sent a question, then had to wait for a reply?
Like, say you're planning a picnic.
Hey, Chad, where should we meet?
Come on, right back.
You could be waiting minutes or hours.
You have no idea.
Finally, it's been three hours.
Okay, Chad says meet at Minnehaha Falls.
Sure, but what time?
Come on, just answer me.
Meanwhile, the whole thing could have been settled in 15 seconds with a call.
Hello?
Hey, Chad.
Where should we picnic?
How about Minnehaha Falls?
When?
Six.
Bring cheese and crackers?
Nah, fruit and pizza.
Okay, see ya. that's efficient phone calls avoid confusion you can hear someone's tone whether it's playful angry grumpy or snarky texts are so easy to get wrong is chad being sarcastic or a jerk Oh, he sent an emoji to clarify.
Cool guy with shades?
What does that even mean?
Plus, what emoticon can replace the sound of human laughter or that special silence that you know is a smile on the other end of the line?
You can feel real feelings through a call.
I've seen someone stand right next to me and text someone RFOL.
And let me tell you, they were not rolling on the floor laughing.
I'm not going to say texting is dishonest, but it does make it easy to lie.
There's a famous story about the first phone call.
In 1876, Alexander Graham Bell was inventing the phone.
So far, he'd only managed to send snippets of speech.
But then he spilled some acid on his hand in the lab.
Mr. Watson, come here.
I want you.
He used the phone without realizing it to call his assistant.
And it worked.
Mr. Bell, I heard every word you said distinctly.
Is there even a story of the first text message?
That's rhetorical.
I don't care because it's definitely not as good.
Phone calls are memorable, like a cousin telling you about a new baby joining the family, or a friend comforting you after a breakup.
And no wonder.
Humans have been talking and listening to each other's voices for over 100,000 years.
Way longer than writing.
So the call is coming.
The call to enjoy a conversation.
Not just get to it next time you're on the toilet.
The call to revel in human voices.
The call to say, I love you.
Not with words, but with actions.
The call to make a call.
Are you going to answer it?
Well said.
Well, howdy-do.
That was a heartwarming declaration of greatness there.
Ella, what stood out to you about Jonathan's arguments?
That actions do speak louder than words.
Very nice.
Okay Kalila, you have 30 seconds to send Jonathan straight to voicemail, and your 30 seconds starts right now.
Okay, man, I don't know if 30 seconds is going to be enough.
First of all, I think that being loved is about you know, showing the other person that you understand what they want.
And sometimes that's not always a phone call.
A lot of people don't like being called.
The time thing, I just think that it's not true that calls are faster.
So many times I've been in a situation where I'm calling, leaving a message, they don't answer.
They call me back.
I'm in the middle of something I can't answer.
They leave a message.
And you know what we always do?
We always switch to texting.
And time.
I found that surprisingly hurtful.
I thought this was just going to be about the topics, but that feels somehow ad hominem.
I don't know why.
I'm sorry.
I hurt your feelings.
You're welcome.
How did you say it?
With your mouth, right?
Oh, my goodness.
All right.
We have a lot more to hear coming up.
We're going to hear from Kalila and Team Texting.
But first, a quick break.
Okay, we were all ears for phone calls.
Kalila, take it away for texting.
Imagine you call your childhood friend on a random Tuesday.
Hello?
Hey, pal.
I'm in the middle of like 10 things right now and I'm holding a jumbo tray of sandwich fixins.
Is everything okay?
Remember that time when we built a sandcastle?
What?
No, the sprouts are slipping.
Are you okay?
Remember when we went to Claire's and we got our ears pierced?
My ears closed up years ago.
Did you need something?
Remember how we used to laugh?
I'm sorry, what is the purpose of this call?
I was just thinking about you.
I have to go.
Wow, I don't know if she'll ever talk to me again.
But that's the risk I took, calling someone out of the blue, violating the peace of her day.
Let's try again, with a text.
Hey pal, thinking of you.
She wrote back, aww.
It says, miss you too.
Now we're both smiling and no days were ruined.
I'm a reporter.
Making phone calls is part of my job.
Cold calls, as in a call where the person isn't expecting you, are not fun.
Said person answers the phone already feeling annoyed, and you have to explain who you are and why you're calling as quickly as possible before they hang up.
A few times I've even been yelled at on the phone.
It's my least favorite part of the job, and I usually cry.
But the telephone is an incredible invention.
Sure, so is the horse-drawn carriage.
But we have cars now.
We change with the times.
Ugh, not me.
I still love my horse and carriage.
And my phone calls.
Well, great for you, Mr. Retro Chic, but for the rest of us, a phone call causes panic.
Maybe 20 years ago a ringing phone meant something like Marjorie down the street is inviting you over for homemade casserole.
How charming.
These days though, a call is either spam your college that cost you 200000, asking if you'd like to give them more money, or someone delivering bad news.
Sometimes it's also a butt dial.
Those are fun, right?
Are they?
Five minutes of rustling?
Okay, plus, have you ever tried to get off the phone with someone and they keep dragging it out?
It's a whole song and dance of going okay in a way that's supposed to sound final, while the other person completely ignores the hint and launches into a detailed anecdote about new cereals on offer at their grocery store.
Texts, on the other hand, end whenever you want them to.
You just stop responding.
Beautiful.
And you don't have to play phone tag trying to get an answer.
Just send your question and the other person responds when they can.
Ideal.
There's also the matter of being in public.
Someone calls to chat, and any random stranger can listen in on my conversation.
I would like to be able to tell my mom about how I cried over accidentally ordering the wrong breakfast burrito without broadcasting it to the world.
It is simply not the world's business.
And speaking of being in public, we've all been trapped near someone on a loud phone call.
It's a nightmare.
Texting is silent.
It is the considerate choice.
And here's something phone calls can never give you.
A written record.
I can search my texts, find that address someone sent me three months ago and double check what time we said we'd meet.
A phone call just evaporates into thin air.
And finally, texting isn't just words.
It's photos, links, voice memos, emojis, a whole multimedia experience.
Texting is even changing language itself.
Now we're all using new abbreviations and fun emojis to express ourselves.
It's like each one of us is a modern-day Shakespeare, inventing new ways to say things.
So, in conclusion, texting is convenient, considerate, less panicky, and frankly, more creative.
Oh, it's my childhood friend again.
She says thanks.
That text brightened my day.
And she sent me a picture of some sandwiches she made.
Let me text back a drool emoji and a heart one too.
Yeah.
Very nicely done.
I'm sending you gifts of lots of people giving high fives.
Way to go.
Ella, what stood out to you about Kalila's Declaration of Greatness?
That, like she was saying, how calls have to be at a good time and how, like your texts are private and like kept, you can keep them to yourself.
OK, Jonathan, it's time for your rebuttal.
You've got 30 seconds to leave Kalila on read and your time starts now.
Okay.
You mentioned Shakespeare.
I'm trying to remember which play or sonnet the smiley face was in.
You say the thing about how phone calls evaporate into air, but frankly, like I mean all the best things in life.
Do you know like laughter and tears and Our human experiences themselves?
So I don't think, you know, that discounts them.
I think a lot of what you're saying, I feel very parental.
It speaks to our isolation.
I mean yeah sure, if you want to talk about the nature of mortality and death, but I just like to sort of be able to look back at a nice text later, you know.
I mean, I don't know.
We're just jumping too far ahead.
I mean, like, why do anything, you know?
Like, why sail a paper boat on a pond?
Why would you do that?
That's the problem right there.
I come from a generation where you know you beat a hoop down the street with a stick.
You know, and your generation has got AI solving all of that.
Yeah.
I don't know about AI, but I don't think it's a bad thing that we've, you know, evolved beyond hoops.
We have better things to play with now than hoops on streets.
Okay.
Okay, Ella, it is time to award some points.
Please give one point to the declaration of greatness that you liked best and one point to the rebuttal that won you over.
You get to decide what makes a winning argument.
Did one team argue more passionately?
Did another team have better logic?
Award your points, but don't tell us who they're going to.
Have you made your decision?
Yes.
Excellent.
Kalila and Jonathan, how are you two feeling so far?
Feeling confident, I guess.
I'm usually so conflict avoidant that it's a weird mode for me to be in.
And I feel like ready to throw in the towel.
I'm like, maybe she's right.
Maybe phones are for phonies.
What do I know?
All right.
Well, it's time for a quick break.
Check your messages and charge your phone.
And we'll be right back with more Smash Boom Best.
You're listening to State of Debate, home to rage and rhetoric and awe-inspiring argumentation.
Meow, that's cat for hello.
I'm Taylor Lincoln, debate maven and cat person.
Woof, woof, that's dog for feed me.
And I'm Todd Douglas, the dog dude and debate powerhouse.
And we're here at our local animal shelter to cuddle some canines and kitty cuties.
And catch some logical fallacies with our claws and paws.
Logical fallacies are uncool debate techniques that help you lose your debates.
And I just snagged a nasty one.
Want to hear it?
That's dog for of course.
Let's listen in and see what the cat dragged in.
Oh, look at these little kittens in need of a home.
What do you think, Amos?
Should I adopt one?
Meh.
Aren't they adorable?
Listen to their little meows.
I don't really like cats.
Wait, what?
Why?
And why didn't you put that on your dating profile?
I don't know.
I just think that they're mean.
How so?
Because they can scratch and bite?
Dogs can also scratch and bite.
Oh, this little furball seems to love the way I'm petting him.
They're mean because they're just not nice to people.
Cats are mean because they're not nice to people.
And they're not nice to people because they're mean?
Our friend just said the same thing twice.
That argument didn't take us anywhere.
And that's because it was a circular argument fallacy.
That's when a debater ends their point with the argument they started with.
It's an argument that goes around in circles. like a dog chasing its tail.
Our friend Amos needs to come up with some fresh ideas about why cats are mean.
Which is a losing argument anyway?
I don't know, Taylor.
I've had a few gnarly run-ins with my neighbor's cat, Salsalito.
Watch it, Todd.
My claws are coming out.
To quote the great Scooby-Doo, Ruh-roh!
Hiss!
We'll see you next time on State of Debate.
Smash.
Boom.
You're listening to Smash Boom Best.
I'm your host, Molly Bloom.
And I'm your judge, Ella.
And we love getting debate suggestions from our listeners like this one.
Hi, my name is Wyatt.
I'm from Hanford, California.
My debate suggestion is Monopoly versus Jenga.
A game night debate.
Wyatt's not playing with this one.
We'll hear who Wyatt thinks should win at the end of the show.
And now, back to this debate.
Calling versus texting.
And now it's time for round two.
The...
Micro round.
It's time for a fact off.
Kalila and Jonathan will each get three chances to make a micro argument backed by a cool fact or idea.
Jonathan went first last round, so Kalila, please start us off.
Texting saved a life.
In 2008, British surgeon David Knott was volunteering in the Congo and performed a life-saving operation.
Receiving step-by-step surgical instructions via text message.
The operation was a success.
So wait, I just have a follow-up question about that little fun factoid.
So he put down the scalpel in order to like be texting away?
I don't have information about the logistics of if maybe someone was reading them out loud.
Okay.
Okay.
All right.
I do tend to think that if it was just on a phone, you can get rid of the middleman and you wouldn't have to have someone reading the text to him out loud.
But anyway, did you know that phone calls are good for your mental health?
And I've got some studies to prove it.
One study tested how people felt after calling an old friend or just typing to them and get this.
Even though people were worried that the call would be awkward, it wasn't.
And it brought them closer to their friend.
And another study found that regular phone calls make people feel less lonely.
That's nice.
It's not quite as good as like saving someone's life.
You know, earlier you said there's no story about the first text message.
In fact, there is.
The first text message was Merry Christmas, and it was sent from a computer, not a phone, on December 3rd 1992, a great year.
A 22-year-old software programmer named Neil Papworth, a fun name, sent the very first text message.
It was sent from a computer because mobile devices weren't yet capable of sending texts at the time.
The recipient got a very festive surprise on his phone.
That sounds really jolly.
Yeah, it is jolly.
Wait, that they just, they looked at their cell phone and they saw Merry Christmas.
Mm-hmm.
There's nothing jolly about that.
There's nothing about just reading the words.
It was like a new career font, all caps.
I don't know that we have that capability at the time.
It was a new technology.
I don't know.
What's a Christmas card?
It's writing.
Yeah, I know, but it's colorful and it's got little pictures and Santa Clauses and reindeer.
I don't know.
It does occur to me though, that you know, if there weren't any phones, there would be any phone lines.
And where would birds sit?
I know that's a non sequitur, but...
Is that something that you've ever considered?
Where they get to sit in trees?
Get splinters?
I think their feet are built for that.
I don't know that they get splinters.
Alright, fair enough.
Was that your fact?
No, maybe that counts as a fact.
I guess it is a fact.
Okay, here's a question for you.
What are you doing on April 25th?
Because I am celebrating National Telephone Day.
It started in 1967 in honor of the 100 million telephone line being installed in the U.S.
To celebrate, they had governors and dignitaries all get on a party line together and they got gold phones.
I think we need to bring this back because I want to get on a party line and get a cold phone.
Cold phones is pretty cool, but sitting on a conference call with a bunch of governors sounds actually like a nightmare to me.
All right.
Well, here's my last fact.
In 2003, ATT helped American Idol set up a voting system that relied on text messages rather than voice calls.
At the time, text messaging was still new and some 22 of respondents to a later poll said they learned to text specifically in order to vote on the show.
A reality.
Singing competition accidentally became one of the biggest drivers of texting adoption in American history.
Now, you're talking about American Idol, right?
Mm-hmm.
And that's a competition where people sing?
Yes.
Where people make use of the greatest instrument of all?
With deference to Ella, I'm trying to butter up the judge here.
The flute and the saxophone, great.
But what better instrument than the human voice?
Do you see where I'm going with this?
I see where you're going for a professional singer, but not for any schmo.
Who's like saying they like a certain singer better than another singer?
I don't think that that needs to be spoken.
It could just as easily be typed.
Oh.
I got a little mini fact.
I mean, what do we call those things that we keep in our pockets?
We don't call them iPhones.
We call, or rather we do call them iPhones.
We don't call them iTexting machines, right?
That's the, that is, are these facts?
I don't know.
Are they low blows?
Yeah.
I don't know.
I mean, even like when you think about the friendships that you have, the friends, there's kind of a hierarchy.
Like there's the friends that you feel like you could pick up the phone and call, right?
And those are usually your closest friends.
That's a soft fact.
A fact of the heart.
Yeah, much of a fact.
A fact of the heart.
All right.
Ella.
Ella.
What's that to you from this micro round?
That they each had, like their strengths, like in texting, you might like do it more often.
Or like with everyone.
And then like calling definitely with like specific people to show you care about them.
All right.
Those were a lot of good facts, a lot of good points, but only one team can get a point for this round.
So Ella, please award a point for this micro round.
The decision is completely subjective and completely up to you.
Have you made your decision?
I have.
Perfect.
Keep it secret and we'll be right back.
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Thanks.
We are back and we're jumping right in because it's time for Sneak Attack.
This is our improvised round where debaters have to respond to a challenge on the spot.
Today's challenge is mystery word.
Each debater will get a list of three secret words, and they're going to try to get our judge Ella, to guess the word as fast as she can.
So let's say one of my words was milk.
I might say it comes from a cow, goes on cereal, and Ella would be like milk.
Got it?
Does that make sense?
Yes.
Fab.
Okay.
So you're going to have 30 seconds to get Ella to guess.
And Ella, so I want to ask, are you ready for some guessing?
I am.
I'm very ready.
Okay, so Jonathan, you are going to start us off.
You have your words.
Okay.
Get Ella to guess them.
Your time starts now.
So this is something that you would leave on someone's phone if you couldn't get a hold of them.
Voicemail.
Very good.
And this is the sound that your phone makes when someone's phoning you.
Ding.
Almost rhymes with?
Ring.
Yes.
And this is the person who is doing the talking.
You.
This is, okay, you hit a little button.
Mute.
On your phone when you want to hear it without having to hold it to your face.
Do you want to make a guess?
I don't know.
What was the answer, Jonathan?
Speaker.
I didn't do a very good job.
That makes sense.
No, you did great.
Okay, Kalila, it is your turn.
You have your words handy?
Yep.
All right.
Your 30 seconds begins now.
Okay, the little pictures in the text.
Emojis.
Yes.
When you've got an email, there's options at the bottom and the options are like, yep.
And the thing on the computer that you would use to type.
Keyboard?
Yeah.
Great job.
Correct.
I've never heard this game show side of you.
It's true.
A new part of me comes out.
Okay, Ella, it is time to award a point.
You can decide who gets the point.
Did someone get you to guess more?
Did someone really connect with you?
You know it's up to you what the criteria are.
Have you awarded your point?
Yes, awesome.
Then it's time for our final round, the final six.
In this round, each team will have just six words to sum up the glory of their side.
Kalila, you're up first.
Tell us why you heart emoji texting.
Open your mind.
Future is now.
Oh, very nice.
All right, Jonathan, last chance to give it your all for a call.
Immediate, intimate, hand and finger free.
That's kind of a hyphenated one.
Direct, interactive, and fun.
Very nice.
All right, Ella, it is time to award your final point for this final six.
Have you made your decision?
I have.
Oh, my goodness.
All right, tally up those points, Ella.
Are you ready to crown one team the Smash Boom best?
I am.
Okay, drumroll, please.
And the winner is... Texting.
Yay.
I knew it.
I knew it.
Next time, if you get, instead of a teenage judge, you get, like, some 70-year-old.
Man, we don't have a fighting chance.
Our fingers are just too pudgy and sticky to text.
Why are your fingers so sticky?
It's my business.
I like fudge.
Me too, me too.
Ella, was there a moment that really decided things for texting?
I think it was probably the sneak attack.
It was really, really fast.
I got it.
Yeah, Kalila really got that game show mode going.
We locked in, we locked in.
Very impressive.
Jonathan, I always like talking to you.
You always make me laugh.
And I do think you make some good points about the telephone and the intimacy of the relationship you can have with someone in voice versus writing.
Oh.
That's really nice.
Kalila, you kind of won me over.
I came in here feeling like a little more headstrong about the phone but I have to admit you kind of won me over some.
And that is a testament to your debating skill, your persuasiveness, and your velvety, dulcet tones.
Yeah.
You get it?
That's a little dig.
That's a little trying to get a little slam dunk on my own side.
You didn't have to do that.
For sportsmanship.
On the whole, very gratifying.
Thank you.
Well, that is it for today's debate battle.
Ella Crown texting the Smash Boom best.
But what about you?
Head to smashboom.org and vote to tell us who you think won.
This episode was produced by me, Molly Bloom, Mark Sanchez, and Shannon Totten.
It was sound designed by Rachel Breeze, and Mark wrote our theme song.
We had engineering help from Adam Lee.
Our announcer is Marley for your worker auto, and we want to give a special thanks to Austin Cross and Taylor Kaufman.
Kalila, is there anyone you'd like to give a shout out to today?
Yes, I'd like to give a shout out to my mom Annalise, who's one of the few people in my life that I enjoy both phoning and texting equally.
She's really great in both modes.
That's very sweet.
And how about you, Jonathan?
Any special shout outs?
I want to shout out my nine-year-old son Hoggy, who first introduced me to Smash Boom Best and got me listening to it.
And he is a big fan, Molly.
Aw.
Thank you, Augie, for introducing your dad.
And Ella, any special thanks or shout-outs?
Could I shout-out my dad for being here?
Absolutely.
Shout-out whoever you want.
Then I shout-out my dad for being here and helping me.
Nice.
And before we go, let's check in and see who Wyatt thinks should win the debate between Monopoly and Jenga.
I think Monopoly would win because it's longer and that means more fun.
If you're between the ages of 13 and 18 and you'd like to be a judge, or if you're any age and you have an idea for a knock-down, drag-out debate, head to smashboomorg, slash contact and drop us a line.
And if you're a fan of the show and want to keep it going, head to smartypass.org to subscribe.
We'll be back next week with a new Smash Boom Best episode, Dandelions vs. Orchids.
Bye!
Smell you later.
Farewell.
Liberty giblets.
I also hate that you said, how do you do?
I found that very gross.
That's why I did.
That was special for you.
We haven't even started debating yet.
