We've seen plenty of screen takes on Superman, but considerably fewer versions of Supergirl, his cousin.
Now she's headlining a new movie and it turns out she is kind of a dirtbag in the good way.
Fearless and grumpy Supergirl sets out on a quest to support a new pal's revenge journey and to make a point that should really be clear by now.
Never mess with a lady's dog.
I'm Glenn Weldon.
And I'm Linda Holmes.
Joining us today on NPR's Pop Culture Happy Hour is Daisy Rosario.
She's the senior supervising producer of audio at Slate, where she works with shows like Death, Sex and Money and ICYMI.
Hello, Daisy.
Hello, Linda.
Hello, Glenn.
Happy to be here.
So good to have you.
We briefly met this version of Supergirl played by Millie Alcock in 2025's Superman, starring David Corenswett.
Her name is Kara, she's Superman's cousin, and she also was born on Krypton.
When this story begins, she's celebrating her birthday getting very drunk with the only real friend she has her dog Crypto.
She soon crosses paths with a young girl named Ruthie, who has lost her family to an attack by a brutal villain named Krem.
They are played by Eve Ridley and Matthias Schoonertz.
Ruthie wants revenge on Krem and, after he tangles with Krypto and leaves him injured, Kara needs to find him too.
So the unlikely pair begins the hunt.
Along the way, they meet a wide variety of colorful characters, both human and not, including Lobo, a biker dude and bounty hunter played by Jason Momoa.
The movie is directed by Craig Gillespie, whose varied resume includes I, Tonya and Lars and the real girl.
Maybe he just likes blondes.
It's in theaters now.
I'm going to start with you, Glenn.
Obviously, you and I have spent a lot of time talking about Superman and his expanded universe.
What did you think about this movie?
I mean, I liked it.
I think it's a solid addition to the canon.
I don't think it's a game changer.
I don't think it's setting out to be a game changer.
It's setting out to establish that in this relatively new version of the DC universe we're getting, it's not a monolith that has different notes, that you can play in different genres.
And there's a real...
I'll be kind here.
There's a simplicity to this story that comes straight from the source material, which is a book called Supergirl, Woman of Tomorrow, by Tom King, illustrated by Bilkis Eberle.
It's a Western in space, and the motivation could not be simpler.
You shot Madame Dog.
The central dynamic of it is very true grit.
And to be fair, a lot of things like it, you know, Lone Wolf and Cub, Logan.
There's a lot of stuff that kind of follows this same central dynamic.
I will say the book is a lot weirder than this movie is.
It's got a little bit more grit in the gears than this movie does.
And it does feel sometimes like the grit has been used to sand things down and make them a bit more.
You know four-quadrant, family friendly.
And I realize that sounds like a complaint, but this is, at the end of the day, a superhero movie.
So if it misses kids, if it doesn't reach kids, it's not doing pretty essential job of superheroes.
But the fact is that with simplicity, with really established conventions of genre, you get familiarity.
You will know every story beat that hits before it comes.
So what matters is going to be the details of the execution.
And I think Millie Alcock is great.
She's given you layers.
The villain Krem, you mentioned, is a throwaway.
He's a cartoon.
He's trying to give you a lot, but there's not a lot of there there.
And we get the introduction of the character of Lobo, who you mentioned, a character that I've known.
I remember reading about in the 80s and 90s.
He was boring then, he's boring now.
I don't think there's just enough there.
He's kind of a one-trick pony.
I like this.
Didn't love it, really wanted to love it, but I liked it.
All right.
Daisy, how about you?
What'd you think?
Yeah, this movie just didn't really do it for me.
I didn't want to love it.
I just wanted to like it.
And I didn't even really get there.
I felt like...
Millie Alcock was actually kind of miscast.
I wish that she kind of was somebody who may be more naturally had a sense of fun in her.
Like, I think she's compelling in general, but I think, the script being what it was, it would have been served better by somebody who's a little bit more comfortable with kind of some of the zaniness that they kind of put around but don't necessarily fully commit to.
I was also really distracted throughout the movie by things that were not necessarily references, but felt like they were inspiration.
And the two main inspirations I felt like I saw early on were Guardians of the Galaxy, which you know is a James Gunn movie.
He didn't direct this or write this one, but he did write and direct Superman.
And he's one of the heads of this new era of DC studios.
And also like Mad Max Fury Road.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
That said, I did find myself feeling like, you know, if you're not as easily distracted by these things, you might just be having a better time than me in this movie.
But I think it just made it really hard for me to get fully invested.
I get that.
I think I come down somewhere in between the two of you, probably a bit closer to Glenn.
I did enjoy it.
I like her.
I did like Millie Alcock.
I thought she was good in this.
I thought she was fun in this.
I do like the idea, as we mentioned in the intro, of kind of a dirtbag superhero.
Not that we have not ever seen that.
But I did like that idea and I enjoyed her.
I think my issue was I would have liked to see, I think, her in a different story.
And that's for a couple reasons.
One is that Glenn mentioned this kind of very flat villain of Krem.
Yeah.
And I think there gets to be a point where, like when, your big source of tension is literally a cage full of screaming girls.
I think you have to do that awfully carefully or it can seem painful.
And I'm not sure they stayed on the right side of that line.
The other thing is that in several places, you know, we talked about the fact that the story of Ruthie kicks off with her losing her whole family to this violent violence.
I just felt, in several different places, like it was just too dark for what I want a movie like this to be.
And we have been round and round and round about this so many times with superhero movies.
How much do you want it to be fun?
How much do you want it to be heavy and serious?
There are certain rules that I have in my head about.
I don't want you to do X, I don't want you to do Y.
We've already talked about the fact that they injure the dog.
And that's one rule that you're brushing up against.
And I felt like I got to the end.
There's a lot of trying to triangulate around this question of should you kill people?
What does it do to you to kill people?
And I'm not sure the movie really earned where it was trying to get to with that question by the end.
And that's something I want to talk to Glenn about, because Glenn and I have talked about this many times.
And I think without giving away plot points.
Did you find their approach to that question satisfying?
Yeah.
I'll say yes with a but, because I think one of the challenges of this particular character is that different people over the years have characterized her in vastly different ways.
And they are keying off of this one book by Tom King and Bilka separately, which said OK, here's the thing.
She's different than Clark.
And here's why.
You know, we do get a few scenes with David Coren Sweat's Superman.
And I think those scenes just point up how they really captured lightning in a bottle there.
Not just with that performance, but with that characterization of Superman as a kind of big, lovable doofus.
And it does the thing that, putting two very different characters or similar characters with different motivations together, you kind of bang them against each other and you start to dilinate them.
And it's those scenes where you contrast Superman and Supergirl that you allow Supergirl's.
It really sets her apart.
Clark has not suffered.
He hasn't gone through it.
He is coasting on what is essentially a very noble but completely unearned belief in humanity.
And life hasn't afforded Kara that luxury.
That privilege is what it is.
It's a privilege.
And if Alcock leans too hard into that cynicism I mean she's writing a line here then Supergirl becomes an off-putting jerk.
But they show us how and why.
The values that she grew up with are not Clark's Midwestern values.
This is something that the film, I think, handled well.
She wants to do good, and she knows that that's not the same thing as being nice.
Because being nice is for show.
It's about showing an outward face and being concerned with how you're perceived.
And that's something that Clark... we see in this film is very concerned about.
That's why the suit.
Being good is about helping others, being of use and not being particularly concerned about what others think about it.
And that's interesting.
And I've, you know, long ago I wrote a book about Superman and that is actually a new wrinkle.
And I think that's the best thing about this movie.
I think for me, that part of it though, is why I really felt like she wasn't quite up to the material.
And again, I mean, I don't think that the script was inherently strong per se.
So, I mean, I do want to be fair about that.
But I found myself even during the movie, right, just trying to do a little fantasy casting.
And I couldn't necessarily think of somebody who is really in the spotlight right now who could potentially crush it.
But I did find myself thinking like man, if you had like younger Emma Stone, like back in the EZA era, like I would have believed her in this, like she can really do a range and has kind of a natural sense of fun to her, that could work, because I think that those things are both really hard.
But I also am somebody who really believes that you can kind of have them both in the same place, but you have to earn them and you have to really lean into them and to me it just felt very lukewarm in both directions.
Yeah, we've touched on this already, but I think the biggest problem I had with this movie, nuts and bolts wise, was the villain is no good.
It's not the performance, I think, script wise, this guy just sort of comes at you with one tone, one note, exactly the same presentation every time you see him.
And when you compare that to somebody like you know not only like obviously yes, Heath Ledger's Joker and people like that
But even the different iterations of Lex Luthor that we've seen over time, whether you more prefer the Gene Hackman somewhat more ingratiating Lex Luthor or the Nicholas Holt brooding and yelling Lex Luthor or one of the many others that there have been.
I think this guy just presents as blank menace.
Yes.
And part of the reason for that is that he does start off by killing Ruthie's family.
And there's no color that you can add to him when he's introduced in that way.
It's not that Lex Luthor doesn't have his own list of dastardly deeds.
It's that when you introduce a character who a lot of the audience doesn't know anything about and that's how you meet him he just becomes kind of undifferentiated evil, especially after he injures a dog.
I just felt like that was not a successful characterization.
And like, I would have bought him as like, The second banana, the henchman to a real villain.
But I felt like I needed a meatier villain.
And instead of a meatier villain, we got Jason Momoa as Lobo, who's not the villain.
He's a kind of a...
Well, yeah, like we said, bounty hunter, biker guy.
And I think they got so amused by that idea that you sort of got that guy instead of a real antagonist.
But this is where Daisy's comparison to Fury Road is very useful, because Immortan Joe also a larger-than-life, over-the-top kind of ridiculous, but also a trafficker.
Also just as one-dimensional, but a hell of a lot more compelling.
Is it the performance?
Is it the fact that he's behind this weird mask?
I don't know, but there's something different there.
This guy is definitely getting...
Goon number one.
And that's not what you want from your main villain.
No, I don't think so.
Well, and I think Jason Momoa, I mean, to me, like he is just compelling.
He's silly.
You know, I don't know what he would do with like really, really heavy material.
But that is a guy who shows up for work and knows how to be on screen.
And I feel like you can feel that energy when he does show up.
And so it was almost like a breath of fresh air.
It doesn't spoil anything just to say that it's not like he's in a ton of the movie.
No.
You know, I looked at this and I thought I have no idea whether the reason why they put Lobo in this movie because I believe Lobo is not in the book
No.
He is an extant character in the universe, but he's not in that particular book.
I don't know whether the reason they put him in this movie was to have him played by Jason Momoa.
But it felt like maybe that was what happened, in which case you can understand.
I agree with Daisy.
I think he's very charismatic.
I think what he does in this film is exactly what they brought him in to do.
He does know how to make this very specific type of crack happen insults to people and a certain nihilistic attitude while looking like a member of the kiss army, like i think there's a lot to it.
That is clearly exactly what they wanted from him.
I don't know if I think it works terribly well.
Yeah.
And the other thing is that one of the things that sets the book apart is the art and the colors.
I mean, the colors of the book are just so vibrant and they really underscore that this is outer space.
And there's kind of this 70s side of a van kind of vibe.
And this is another movie that looks like every other superhero movie we've ever gotten, which is the kind of the browns and the raw umbers and the burnt siennas.
It's there to do a very intentional thing, which is to say look, the Superman costume is really bold and primary colored.
And that's what this universe needs.
Intentional.
And I get it.
And I think it was very intentional.
Visually very effective, but do I need to sit through another cloudy murky, brown universe?
I don't know.
Muddled, yeah.
Muddled.
There were these moments in the movie when I would sort of go, ooh, like that's interesting.
For example, there's a conversation between Ruthie and Kara in which Kara eventually says the suit doesn't do anything.
And I thought, ooh, that's an interesting thing to push on because…
Is that true?
Is that exactly true?
Is it sort of true?
Is it technically true?
So I wish there'd been a little more exploration of that.
And I understand.
Listen, I appreciate the fact that they have tried.
But I do think they haven't quite necessarily figured out the balance in terms of what to include, because there are some set pieces I enjoyed here.
But also just a lot of like.
Ultimately, there's only so much that I want to watch a story like this, with some of the brutality that this story contains.
Yep.
And I'm just girding my loins for the discourse, because if this movie does not exceed expectations, people are going to be drawing the wrong conclusions about a female-led superhero film.
Yep.
It could be the story, folks.
It could be the story.
Well, sure.
Exactly.
And they also have a tendency in some cases to make the movie about the woman not at the peak of the franchise's success anyway.
So I agree with you.
Bracing myself for discourse, we're going to try not to think about it too much.
All right.
Well, again, Supergirl is in theaters now.
You know, I think we all liked at least some things about it, had at least some reservations about it.
See what you think.
Up next, what is making us happy this week?
Now it is time for our favorite segment of this week and every week.
What's making us happy this week?
Daisy Rosario, I'm going to start with you.
What is making you happy this week?
So what is making me happy is an iconic piece of pop culture, but it is certainly not something new.
I've been dealing with some health issues, which has me home a lot more.
And when I'm home on like a beautiful day and I can't go outside, I find myself drawn to kind of like longer movies epics, things like that.
It makes me feel like I still did something for the day.
So I don't know if you guys have heard of a little movie called The Godfather, but it was heard of it.
But man, talk about a movie. that has never failed to live up to the hype for me I don't watch it often but it just lives up to it I mean the way that it is structured the arc of the characters the quality of the storytelling it just is beautiful.
And so yeah, in a time where there's just so much that does feel cheap, it is really lovely to kind of revisit some of these classics in this way.
And that is the one that I did.
And it brought me a lot of joy.
So I just felt like I should shout out The Godfather, not that it needs any help, but just more to remind other people of That.
You know a three-hour movie when it's earned, as in that case, it can be just such a wonderful way to spend an afternoon.
There is never a wrong time to shout out a great repertory movie like a great movie from the catalog, a great catalog movie.
I'll say.
Yeah.
Waiting for your hot take on Godfather 3.
Yeah.
Uh-huh.
Well, Daisy Rosario recommends a little movie.
What is it called again?
The Godfather.
The Godfather.
Godfather.
Right.
All right.
Thank you very much, Daisy.
Glenn Weldon, what is making you happy this week?
Well, as Daisy well knows, after 18 years, the Slate Culture Gab Fest podcast is coming to an end.
That's not making me happy.
I've been a listener from the jump.
And you know they have been the first to say that they did not invent the roundtable discussion format.
But the fact remains that gathering critics around a table to discuss pop culture –
And talking about.
You know very unserious things in a serious way and vice versa you know serious things in an unserious way.
They blazed a trail.
And that shows like ours certainly have followed.
I do feel like I have come to know the hosts of that show in that way.
Kind of unidirectional, parasocial way.
I've certainly become huge fans of their writing, which I will continue to follow after the podcast ends.
But you know, the fact is that Wednesday mornings are not going to be the same, and I'm grateful for the years they gave us.
But I have a very selfish recommendation from their archives.
It's not the episode that I was on, although I was on the episode.
But an episode where they talked about something I love.
That also ties into this episode of this show, which is superhero movies, where they showed themselves to be two or three of them showed themselves to be the kind of critics who could change their minds about something.
In June of 2017, on episode 455, they reviewed Patty Jenkins' first Wonder Woman movie.
Mm-hmm.
And it's remarkable to listen to, because both Dana and Julia, two of the hosts, talked about suddenly getting it.
Seeing the simple wish fulfillment fantasy formula of superheroes working on them because –
That scene in Wonder Woman where she steps over the trenches and she's a woman in a silly costume kick and button, taking names.
And it was just as inspiring and joyous for them as it has been for me over the years.
And something I've known these characters have the potential to be.
The other host, Stephen Metcalf, did not get it.
He fell asleep during the movie because...
Of course he did.
And I would want nothing else.
I would want nothing less or else from him.
I'm going to miss the Slate Culture Gab Fest like an ache.
And I just want to thank them for being a part of my life for nearly two decades of it.
So that's what's making me wistful.
Can't say happy.
I am so glad that you mentioned that.
We definitely wish them well, appreciate everything they did and for sure acknowledge the influence that they've had on podcasting world.
So best wishes to all of those folks, both hosts and obviously, production and everybody who has worked on that show.
It's a hard goodbye.
So thank you both for mentioning it.
Of course.
I'm sure, Daisy.
Well, we appreciate it.
What is making me happy this week?
I read a lot of domestic thrillers.
I love a domestic thriller.
Sometimes I like one that is more like. literary, right?
Or at least gets treated as more literary.
And sometimes I just like ones that are really good at being domestic thrillers.
And I have been recently tearing through the work of a writer named Sherry LaPena, and she writes books with titles like Getting Away With Murder.
She Didn't See It Coming.
What Have You Done?
Not a happy family, someone we know.
These books are very good at being exactly what you're looking for if you pick up a book called one of these things.
Everyone here is lying.
Yes, correct.
Everyone here is lying.
Her milieu tends to be a rich not in every case, but tends to be a wealthy neighborhood full of weirdos with secrets.
And there's usually some sort of murder.
And it will play out over the course of the book.
You will find out just how twisted a lot of these people are.
Very often, whoever committed the murder is not the only twisted person in the neighborhood, perhaps not even the most twisted person in the.
I tend to read these books either in one sitting or potentially two sittings.
Her new book is called Getting Away with Murder.
It's coming out at the end of July.
I have read it.
I enjoyed it very, very much.
Nice.
So again, her name is Sherry LaPena.
Really a big admirer of how she pulls off the domestic thriller.
So very fond of those.
Appreciate them very much.
That is what is making me happy this week.
That brings us to the end of our show.
Daisy Rosario, Glenn Weldon, thank you so much to both of you for being here.
Thank you.
Thank you.
This episode is produced by Mike Katziff, Lennon Sherburn, Liz Metzger, and it was edited by our showrunner, Jessica Reedy.
Hello, Come In provides our theme music.
Thanks for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR.
I'm Linda Holmes, and we'll see you all next week.
