Welcome to this negotiation masterclass edition of Negotiate Anything.
With over 1600 episodes featuring some of the world's brightest minds, we've carefully curated three powerful conversations for you.
What makes this so special is that you'll hear how different experts from different industries approach the same challenge in their own unique ways.
Our goal is to give you multiple perspectives so you can build your own unique style.
Success doesn't look the same for everyone, and in this masterclass, you will see exactly why.
Let's dive in.
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Nicole, thanks for joining us today.
Oh my gosh, it's my joy.
Thanks for having me.
It is our pleasure, my friend.
So how about you get us started by telling us a little bit about yourself and what you do?
Sure.
So I am a New York Times bestselling author of my memoir, Nothing is Missing.
That is really honestly, my most recent venture, but I established myself in the internet space, if you will, as the CEO and founder of Inhera Learning Company, a digital education firm for everyday entrepreneurs.
And I scaled that company to multi-million within a year.
And it's still in existence 10 years later.
And I'm really grateful to be able to serve people there every single day.
I love it.
I love it.
And listeners, my friend Nicole is very humble.
There's so much more and we will explore through this interview.
Because this is exciting, because you do a ton of interviews, you have an incredible podcast and your story's out there.
And I'm excited to explore it through the realm of negotiation to see how negotiation kind of shaped your success.
And in the beginning, when we were chatting, we were talking about a concept for this episode and we're going with negotiating to the top.
Yeah, absolutely.
So it's interesting because this is probably the first podcast I've ever done where people have asked me for sort of the why behind the what, the how.
And people always want to know like, well, what else have you accomplished?
And what's new?
And oh, that's cool.
But I really love that you're like, no, but how'd you get there, girl?
So yeah, I've been really fortunate to have the opportunity of Clear Vision.
I've always known from the beginning that it was really important to me to make sure that I was impactful, but in a way that was sustainable and profitable and in alignment with my vision, which meant that I wasn't just executing on opportunities as they showed up and presented themselves to me, but that I was going out there and creating my own.
So that was my first angle to negotiating my way to the top.
Love this.
And there's a lot of brilliance in here, Nicole.
So I don't want to overlook this because people say, OK, clear vision, move on.
And then you give them some money that is in a location that is outside of their vision.
They're like, but I like money, so I'm going to do this.
That's right.
Or how can I make that work?
You know, how do I run this thing to fit into my model?
And that can be your downfall.
Yes.
So what makes it so hard for people to stay true to their vision, even though there are opportunities coming their way?
Let's be honest.
Money is a need, right?
It's a draw.
But if you aren't someone who looks at it as a tool, a means to an end to give you more options, you'll actually end up trading those options for money.
And I've always known from the beginning that I wanted to make sure I had a life where I had the flexibility where, even if I was filming a TV show or writing a book or showing up on stage, that I didn't have to bend to the people who were hiring me to be there, give the opportunity and possibly compromise my values or my family or my goals or my health, simply for a dollar.
And the best way to make sure that doesn't happen is to have dollars of your own.
Yes, 100%.
Yeah.
And I think that's a really important point, because when you think about it through the perspective of just leverage, if you have leverage, then you don't feel the need to make these types of concessions.
Let's say there's somebody out here who's listening to this and saying, all right, it makes sense.
I have a vision now.
But still, when it comes to those actual conversations mentally emotionally psychologically, I have trust, trouble staying focused.
And I start to be persuaded by other people who are imposing their will on my vision.
So how did you essentially negotiate with yourself to get that fortitude to stay strong in the moment?
So that's great.
And there are two things that I always keep to mind.
The first was taught to me by my several mentors I've had.
Some were billionaires, a several hundred million.
And they always say the same thing, which is, when someone wants to buy you, when someone wants in on what you have, that's usually not the right time to sell.
It usually means that you're working with something and you don't want to give up.
Like you said, the leverage.
And the leverage isn't just financial.
The leverage is the autonomy to be able to say look, I am an equal player at this game and at this table, because obviously you've invited me here, because there's something I have that you need to utilize in order to get to your next level.
So that was the first thing.
And then the second thing that I found honestly over time, you know, I think when I was young and excited and eager, it was easier for me to flex on this one.
But as I've gotten older I'm like I really need to apply.
It is that if they can't give me 24 hours to think on the idea of the plan, the contract, whatever it is, then they're not an ideal partner for me.
Anyways, I don't like to do things from a knee jerk place.
I really do believe in the power of sleeping on it, on preying on it, on talking about it with my partner, my family, my team.
And not that I need everyone's opinion because that can also be your downfall, right?
But if nothing else, if you can't give a contract a little bit of breathing room and they're seeking to urgently get you to sign it, odds are that contract is not going to do you well in the future.
So this is really important because that goes beyond dollars and cents.
That talks about value.
That talks about values.
And it also talks about giving somebody the right to think through a decision so they can make the right decision first.
And so when we're out here having these negotiations, we have to make sure that we're recognizing it's not just about the deal.
It's also about the partner.
Is this the kind of person that I want to work with?
Because if they're pressuring me in this situation, it's likely that behavior is going to be a pattern in the future.
Absolutely.
And also keeping in mind that we get all this messaging from society all the time.
Hustle culture, seize the day, grab the opportunity.
If you don't take it today, it'll be lost.
And I have to tell you, just that has not proven to be true.
If someone clearly understands your value and you're bringing a unique value proposition, something to add to them that they don't have or that they're seeking out, they can wait 24 hours.
And honestly, in a lot of my contracts I found that it's enhanced the respect that they've had for me.
I'm not coming to that table just signing suddenly.
It can even up the value of that contract.
You can ask for more money, but a lot can come to you.
And sometimes I'm waiting because I know the answer is yes.
And I want to come with increased peace around that signature, not just seeking a yes or no.
It just it feels good to sit in the moment for a little bit.
And I love the fact that you are recognizing the value of the mutuality of respect, because we all should come to the negotiation table with respect.
But sometimes we don't get that same respect reciprocated to us, and letting somebody know that you are strong enough, slow things down and operate at your pace, even if they don't like it, it does often lead to a level of respect that's necessary for a really stable and healthy relationship going forward.
Absolutely.
I always say that you know, women become really dangerous when we start approaching 40.
You know, because you've done a lot.
You've had kids, you've survived a lot and you start getting this sort of decreased filter around, really caring what people think.
And I found that for me that really does include almost articulating sometimes when I'm walking away.
You know, if someone's saying hey, we really just signed this, like we would hate for you to lose this opportunity.
The minute that it starts catching that energy, it's very easy for me to say you know, if that's what it's looking like, then I'm very comfortable walking away entirely right now.
But there's no way I'm signing this contract. without a solid 24 hours to sit on it.
And if that's what it comes down to, I totally understand your need to move on.
I'm excited about the opportunity, but I love coming into my partnerships feeling really good, really understood and really rested behind my decision.
And if someone can look in your face when you say something that rational to them and say no, you need to sign now, hightail it the other way, because that thing is going to be no good for sure.
Yes, yes, yes.
And so I want to go back to a couple of things that you mentioned.
Because it speaks to the power and leverage that you're bringing to these conversations.
You talked about autonomy and you talked about options.
And so talk about the power of autonomy and options when it comes to the negotiations we have.
Well, options tend to fall into two categories, whether it's options around time or options around money.
And what's great is anybody can create more money.
So whether you decide to work really hard in your nine to five job to increase your revenue and your funds and your income,
So that way, when you go to a contract and negotiate, the money is more flexible, but none of us can negotiate time.
So for me, the value, if you will, is I want to be able to have that flexibility with my time.
I know I can make money.
I know I can make a lot of it.
It really is just more that when my time feels like it's out of my hands and I don't have the ability to get up and walk away when my kids need me or rest when my body calls for it, I just know that that contract is not in service of me.
So that has become a major focus for me whenever I'm going into any sort of I mean it can be negotiation around a TV show which I've done, my book deal.
If they're not willing to say, hey, we get it.
You need space.
You need time.
You need room.
And we recognize that there is no amount of money that will get you to compromise that.
It's just put me in a really great position to negotiate well on my behalf.
Yes, yes, yes.
Okay.
Now, this is going to be the fun part.
And I know what you're thinking, you're saying, but we have been already having so much fun.
So let's talk about the story, the narrative, because people know about you quitting your job and then translating this into the multimillion dollar business.
But now I want you to tell that story from the perspective of negotiations and difficult conversations.
What were the difficult conversations that made Nicole Walters who she is today?
Well, I think a great example would be the conversation I had around selling my business.
And I talk about this in my book, Nothing Is Missing.
It was one of the most difficult moments of my life because I found myself heavily immersed in...
This very contract negotiation that was pitting up against revenue funds versus time and values and mission and essentially I'd been an entrepreneur at that point for about four or five years.
I gained a lot of traction.
I had a business that was totally and completely debt free, started with just 24 and bringing in over a million in revenue consistently and scaled in a way that was pretty advantageous and positive.
Looking to a buyer,
And I was fortunate.
I had a buyer that was interested, that wanted me to come on board and work with them and make some transitional changes from the product.
And I mean, everything about it on paper looked like a dream.
I knew that other people would kill to be in my position.
And this person had accomplished everything, And I still respect them to this day, so much where I knew it looked like a fast track opportunity.
It looked like if I came into this and said yes, not only would I have the things that on paper sound good financial security, instant visibility, privacy products, made team support, as well as having the ability to kind of hand over being CEO and step into the role of being talent a little more.
And we all know being CEO isn't fun every day, you know, because you're dealing with people and paychecks and bills and no PTO, you know.
And so these are all the things that, to me, I was like gosh like, isn't this what the money's all about?
Isn't this what it's for?
So I'm able to have my values do the work, but not have all the ick.
But when I really sat with it after stepping back from the contract and the offer, and I knew that what it was was that I was scared to be my own CEO, that after about five years into entrepreneurship I realized some of the harder parts you know managing a team, worrying about you know making sure I can cover their benefits and dealing with the marketing plans.
And just I felt like I'd been doing a lot of paperwork and admin and I was losing some of the fun of being a talent.
And when that happened, I said oh well, If the only reason you're really selling this thing is because you're afraid of being your own CEO, that's not a good enough reason.
And in the book you can learn more about kind of what the outcome was.
But it was where I applied exactly what I'm talking about here.
I stepped back and that entire contract negotiation took eight months before I turned in my no, because I kept saying give me more details, let me step back.
And they stayed in with me and they were very sad when I declined.
But you know now, almost seven years later, we're looking at where I am and what I've accomplished, you know, and the fact that I have full ownership over that rather than shared ownership.
It was the right decision all the way.
This is so validating because as you were saying this, it was triggering all of my traumas.
Yeah, people think it's such a great position to be CEO.
Yes.
I'm like, no, no, no, it's not for everyone.
And people say entrepreneurship isn't for the weak.
And it's true.
It's not.
And the world needs entrepreneurs.
We need people who are happy to work within companies and lend their gifts.
And there is no shame in saying, look, based on benefits, my kids needs, whatever.
I need my nine to five job.
Like, I get that.
But I will also say that being a CEO, the hard parts are really not just money related.
Some of it is the motivational stuff of being like, oh, you're the one.
Like, you're the one who's responsible for the things.
Like, even if you counted on other people or you expected something to work, you are always the person who is the backup plan, the fill in the gapper, the you know moneymaker.
Your name is on the line.
And that can be a huge mental stress and a huge mental load.
And I understand why people don't want to do it.
I understand completely.
And I just know that I'm cut a certain way and I'm meant to.
So I stay in the game.
But I was forced to make that call.
And that was the call.
It wasn't about the money.
It wasn't about the opportunity.
It was the call of?
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Yes.
I think one of the things I want to highlight here for the listeners is the fact that it took a lot of internal negotiation and understanding who you are as a person and accepting that order to understand the right decision to make.
Because you have a lot of noise from society saying, hey, this is the dream.
This is the perfect end to the chapter.
This is what everybody wants.
And then you say, hey, that might be what everybody else might want.
That might be what society might prescribe in this situation, but that's not what's right, And so it's very impressive and admirable that you were still able to walk away.
And then when you add that additional psychological challenge of the fact that there's some sunk cost fallacy,
Oh, yeah.
You invested eight months.
That's a long time.
And if there's anything I regret, I have zero regrets about the no.
When I tell you I sleep easy at night, never think about it.
When I think of how long it took me to get to the no when I knew the no from the beginning, I mean it's a journey I'm grateful for because I will never take that long again.
I will never take eight months again because I was cycling.
It took me, I would say, probably five months to even realize that it was an internal negotiation and not about the external factors.
For the first five months, I literally was playing with you know well, is it the money, or is it the location, or is it the job role?
And I realized none of those things mattered if I didn't know whether or not this was something I wanted to do.
If 10 years down the line, I could look back and say, I like who I am because I made this contract.
And that was something I could have decided if I'd focused on that factor.
Within 30 days.
You know that did not take eight months to decide, but I was looking at everything else kind of I was evaluating the contract as if it was for a client and not myself.
And it's just very different when it's an entrepreneurship.
You need to look at it from an internal standpoint and that internal like you said, that internal negotiation knowing what you're bringing to the table before you arrive at the table doing that back end work is absolutely critical.
And I'm very grateful.
Now I mean, when a contract comes in, I can pretty much give a yes or no to even pursuing it any further pretty quickly, because I'm so clear again, like I said at the top of our chat on what is it that I need to be doing and where do I need to be standing unwaveringly for the next few years.
And that just really helps.
No sunk cost there.
That's great.
That is great.
And now...
I don't even know if my listeners know this story.
About three or four years ago, I went to Hollywood.
I was pitching a show, made it to the final rounds, talking to the executives.
Didn't work out.
The feedback, it was a conflict resolution show.
And the feedback was they were concerned I wouldn't hold the drama.
And I would resolve the conflict.
They're like, we just want you to like flip a table and set something on fire.
Can we guarantee that there'll be tables flipped?
I'm like, no, not if I'm doing my job well.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Kwame, the unhinged negotiator.
What in the world?
That's not good, right?
It's an action movie.
That's an action movie.
Yeah.
Exactly.
Exactly.
So Hollywood is tough.
It is tough.
And you were able to negotiate a deal without an agent, which is like is rare, unheard of.
Right.
So how are you able to make that work?
So the first thing is understanding all the pieces that the players are going to ask for.
So I did a lot of heavy back end research before going in, knowing that they were going to ask me things like what is the conflict of the show?
These are some basic questions. storytelling elements.
I come from a theater background as well, so I understood some of those pieces that they're looking to tell a story that they don't care how successful I am if the story is great.
Look at what's on TV right now.
I mean, people who have literally...
You know, it's not about the accolades, you know, like it's really not about the credibility.
Heck, you don't even really need to be what you say you are.
You know, will this be something that will sell, and being prepared to negotiate from the standpoint of what it is that they want.
You talk about this all the time.
What is it that they're looking for?
What is it that they want?
And their outcome is money popularity fame, something they can sell to advertisers, making sure that the demographic match and then speaking to those things and knowing that I would have liberties around what show I would write once I got the yes.
But going in conceptually, I just need to make sure I hit those corporate points of this will make money.
It will sell to the advertisers.
It's the right demographic.
I have the marketing know-how to make sure that this concept aligns with what you're looking for.
And being able to keep that emotional distance from the story I was selling, which was me being a businesswoman and a mom and running this empire with this chaotic family and all of these different pieces, was important to me.
And I cared about how it was showcased and shared, but they really didn't care.
It was just another show pitch in their deck.
What they cared about was that my show pitch was going to make them the most money that year.
Nicole dropping gems.
Let us Rewind the tape here.
So one of the things that's really important to understand about power and leverage is that it's dynamic.
It's not static.
It shifts with time and circumstance.
And what you said was absolutely brilliant because you said hey, I understand what they need in order to feel comfortable making a deal.
I'm not going to focus on my needs at that time.
I'm going to pitch from their perspective.
How is this a win for them?
Because you know that once you get the show, that's when you can have the creative liberties and do what you want to do.
But you recognize that if you try to push your agenda at that time then you may not have ever gotten the deals.
So you had to make sure that you negotiated the right thing at the right time.
Yes.
And that's so hard, especially when you're an entrepreneur.
You have some of that creative element that's akin to musicians or painters or dancers, where we have a vision.
We want to see it come to life in a certain way.
And wanting to get people on board.
You think you just need to get them excited.
Get them excited to see the vision or something.
Let me create a sizzle reel, you know, like a demo video or a painting or storyboard, something to help them visually tap in.
But at the end of the day, people can buy into your vision, but if they aren't able to actually sell your vision and make money with it, it doesn't really matter.
I'm grateful that I come from a corporate background and I've spent a lot of time in sales and negotiation.
So it allowed me to take my personal hat off and realize there is space to be creative.
That always comes up, but you won't be building or creating a single thing if you don't get that.
Yes, and that buy in on the front end.
So that was my focus and it worked.
We Spent four years between the pitch negotiation, sale and filming process before my show actually went to air.
So four years from that very first email saying, hey, I think we have a show concept.
Can we work on this?
And when I say several no's hopping from networks to we're premiering at 1030 on Thursday on USA Network.
So you got to stick with it.
That is impressive.
And I think it speaks to the fact that resilience and patience, those are quintessential elements of effective negotiations right.
It's the last man standing and coming from an immigrant background being first generation.
If there's anything I've learned in my career, it's that I may not come to the table with the fanciest items or the biggest, coolest team or whatever, but no one's going to outwork me.
If I'm able to have this staying power, where I will?
I mean, in some of my first speaking gigs I used to do I would show up to help them set up and I'd stay after to help them sweep and box up.
And they wouldn't believe that I was the keynote speaker or that I was on that panel.
And it's because, if you're willing to show that those very people are the people where, as their business grew, they remembered me and I got to grow with them.
So people think that so many things around negotiation and building a brand and being successful happen strictly in the contract or around numbers, around a specific opportunity.
But negotiation starts from the minute you walk in that door, pick up that phone or send that first email.
When people get a sense of who you are, it helps them decide if they even want to continue working with you.
Absolutely.
And I want to speak to the mindset that you have in the final moments of this interview, because the mentality that you bring to the conversation is profound.
It's confident.
It's strong.
And many people who look like us often have a self-defeating mentality when it comes to these difficult conversations.
And if you already feel like you've lost or you think that they don't respect you, then a lot of times we go in with that energy and it's almost guaranteed failure.
It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.
So where did you get this strength and confidence to advocate for yourself in these conversations?
I grew up.
My parents just didn't have it.
I grew up without them having money or connections or resources.
So if I didn't make it myself, it wasn't going to happen.
And now I'm in a place where, if someone isn't going to help me, or if someone's not trying to partner or lend their talents, I'm still going to get it done.
They just have an opportunity to be a part of it.
And that's the attitude that I carry in.
There is my job is to help explain how you have an opportunity to be a part of something that otherwise you wouldn't have had.
I've gone into pitch meetings and I've said to them Are you sure you wanna be the person who said no to the next Oprah?
I've gone into book deal meetings and I've said, no matter what, this book is gonna make a million dollars.
The question is are you going to help?
I say it and I mean it.
You know, I say it with base in my voice and it's because I will stand on my nose until I reach my yes.
Because if they don't understand And because that's the only reason they're saying no is because they don't understand what I'm bringing to the table.
So I'm happy to continue to explain it different ways to give them time and opportunity to reach better understanding, to tap into or modify what's required to help them understand.
But the question isn't whether or not I'm the person they should bet on.
The question is, are they going to bet on it now or are they going to watch someone else who did?
And that's how I approach all of my negotiations.
And I've gotten a lot of yeses because of it.
Oh, my.
And for me as a podcaster, I know when to end a podcast.
I do not think we could do better than that.
Nicole, this was so, so good.
So before you go, can you remind the listeners about you and how they can get in touch and benefit from the resources you have?
Yes, thank you.
So of course, I have my own podcast.
It's called the Nicole Walters podcast.
You can tune in from episode one.
We are in season three and you can catch up with the whole story.
I'm a great storyteller and little bite sized bits about 20 minutes.
Easy, fun to listen to.
And of course, you can pick up my book anywhere books are sold.
It's the New York Times bestseller.
It's called Nothing is Missing.
Amazing.
Nicole, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom with us.
Really appreciate it.
Thank you so much for having me.
It was fun.
You've just heard one powerful perspective and now we're moving on to the next.
A fresh voice with a new angle on the same challenge so you can keep expanding your skills.
Let's dive in.
Regan, thanks for joining us today.
Oh, I'm thrilled to be here.
So how about you get us started by telling us a little bit about yourself?
Well, I am an executive and life coach.
The work that I do primarily is revolves around helping people live their best lives.
So, whether that's personally or professionally, and the focus is frequently around how people can set boundaries, shed the shoulds in their lives.
So the things that they frequently say yes to that are holding them back from focusing on what they really want to go big on.
And then I also, as a side part of my business, do a lot of workshop facilitation and keynote speaking engagements.
Very nice.
So can you tell us a little bit more about the should part?
That's really interesting.
Yes.
Shedding the shoulds is a passion of mine.
So what I've found through my coaching is that every single client of mine is is almost paralyzed in their lives in terms of they feel like they should say yes to every opportunity that comes their way.
And they feel that way for a few reasons.
One reason is fear.
So what would happen to me If I said no to this opportunity, would I not get a promotion?
Would my child's teacher not respect me for not volunteering?
Would my husband get mad at me?
Would my friends, you know, turn their backs on me if I said no?
So that fear or even a sense of obligation that it is my duty to take care of XYZ.
If I don't, then who will?
So a lot of the work that I do starts with setting boundaries for yourself and figuring out what is it that truly motivates you?
What is it that you value?
And then what choice you have in the matter?
A lot of times we think that we don't have a choice, but frankly, I mean, we almost always have a choice to say yes or no to an opportunity.
So my work is all about supporting people through that journey and figuring out what are the right things to say yes to, and helping people get really selfish with their yeses and hand out far fewer than they currently do.
Yeah, this is really interesting.
And I think it plays off of one of our last episodes with Melissa Hereford really well, where she's talking about setting boundaries.
So I think this is kind of like the next step.
Yeah.
And it's something that's relevant, I think, for all of us.
And we can all get better right at setting boundaries and standing up for what it is that we want and what we're excited about.
Perfect.
Yeah, I completely agree.
And this is going to be a little bit of self-help for me too, because sometimes I have the same thing
And I think for entrepreneurs, it's really important for us to keep that in mind as well, because sometimes we can get into that dilemma trap of chasing bad money.
Chasing bad money.
And in addition to that, saying yes to doing things in kind over and over.
And I mean I'll be honest.
Sometimes I struggle when it's a friend that needs coaching and is asking me for an hour of my time.
It's really important to know what your boundaries are in terms of when you're willing to donate your talent and when you're not.
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Right.
Oh, that's something I struggle with too.
Yeah, I'm sure you do because you're good at what you do.
And when you're good at something, people want to meet for coffee or lunch.
And that is a code for let me, you know, have you coach me for an hour for free.
Yes.
Okay.
So I'm glad I'm not the only person that gets that too, because when your gift, your talent or essentially, your product, is you, your mind, it's really easy to just kind of fall into that work mode.
And for me, it doesn't feel like work.
Right, because you're not really good at it.
But then everyone benefits.
And so something.
I mean this is a total sidebar, but I no longer meet for coffee or lunch because I know that's what people want.
So unless it's like when we met, that was to like minds meeting.
And that was fun for me.
But in terms of meeting friends for coffee or lunch, I always give them the opportunity to come meet me at my office.
And I save those hours for paying clients.
I no longer, you know, have those social slash coach me for free moments.
Oh, this is interesting.
See, now I almost feel bad because this has turned into a coach me for free, kind of podcast interview.
No, not at all.
I mean, putting this together, I know that you have the same struggle.
Well, I assume that.
I don't know that, but I know...
All of my friends who are coaches experience this.
And it's so important to say, you know, would love to help you.
Here's my hourly rate.
Why don't you come to, you know, these are three available options I have next week.
What works for you?
Oh, this is cool.
Okay.
Good stuff.
This has been so valuable and we're like four minutes in.
Oh my gosh.
I'm so glad.
Good.
Okay.
So back to it.
How can we determine the difference between something you should do and something you shouldn't do?
So let's kind of break it down almost in a scientific type of way.
So I mean, the easiest way that I tell people how they can figure this out is listening to their gut instinct.
So anytime you feel a sense of dread, like sick to your stomach, you get some sort of physical reaction that is negative.
You might have a panic attack.
Anytime that happens, that is a pretty good sign that it's an absolute no for you.
Anytime that you get excited the good kind of excited it's an opportunity that might be like a little bit scary, but it's that risk that you're excited to take.
It's on your bucket list.
Anything that feels good or aligns with either how you're motivated in terms of intrinsic motivations, things that you're really passionate about.
Or it aligns with your value system in terms of how you like to spend your time, your money, your energy.
Those are things to consider before you say yes or no.
How does this opportunity really align with what I'm passionate about?
And then if I say yes to this, then what does it mean that I'm saying no to?
So if I say yes to this incredible project that I don't really want to do, right?
Does that mean I'm saying no to an incredible project that I'm excited about?
Or time to go out with my friends, or time to spend with my family, or time to just, you know, brainstorm your next big idea?
I just threw out probably five different ways that you can determine if a should is good or bad.
But the first thing is just to sit and feel what it does to you physically.
And that is a great compass for you to use in terms of your decision.
So what if it's a situation where it's a really great opportunity?
What steps do you take to say no without damaging the relationship?
So I'm making the assumption that this opportunity, while great it's not, you know, a 95 fit into my life.
And then I would look at my values.
So right now, the top things in my life are personal growth, career and family.
And Your listeners would probably be surprised to know that personal growth for me trumps my family at this time, because when I am invested in my own growth, I am a better wife and I am a better mother.
So I like to tell people that because sometimes honesty is power for honesty.
So I would assess whether or not it fits within my values.
Is this going to allow me to get better personally?
Is it going to allow me to be better for my family?
Is it going to help my career thrive?
And if the answer is no. then I would then look at like, okay, what is this choice for me?
So if I say yes to this, what am I saying no to?
What time would I pour into this opportunity?
And then what would I not be able to do because of it?
So that is the framework I use for every decision.
And it's I mean quite honestly, it's helped me be able to get to a yes or no really fast and not look back once I have my answer.
That's really great because it's liberating to be able to come to a decision like yeah, to be decisive.
I overheard you say this on an earlier episode of your podcast in terms of being able to walk away from a new business meeting with a clear answer yes or no?
I use that same logic for other people.
So I don't want to leave people guessing or wondering if I'm going to do something.
So I like to be very clear and direct up front.
This is a hard yes or a hard no.
And I think that's really important because it allows them the opportunity to find that next best person.
And another thing that allows me, a lot of people feel guilty for saying no.
But one thing that I keep in mind is that if I say yes to an opportunity that I am not 100% jazzed about, I am robbing someone the opportunity who would love that opportunity to grow and thrive.
I'm taking that away from them.
So I always think of a no as a gift, an opportunity for somebody else to say yes, and it's the right yes for them.
That's a really great point.
It's so true because there's something for everybody.
And what lights me up is different than what lights you up.
You know, we've talked about this before.
My perfect client is different than your perfect client.
So I would rather not waste your client's time. trying to be their coach if it's not the right fit.
I'd rather just say, hey, call my friends, Kwame, he's perfect for you.
That makes so much sense.
This is cool.
So how do you prepare for these conversations?
In terms of saying no?
You know, I try to keep everything brief.
And a lot of times one trick that a coach that a while back I read about saying like writing the opportunity down on a post-it note if you feel nervous about saying no to a person.
So write it down on a post-it note or a piece of paper and say no to the piece of paper and not the person, to gain some confidence.
And I frankly just always say, thank you so much for thinking of me.
I unfortunately can't say yes to this opportunity, and you know, either give them names of other people who may or be willing to because frequently you know somebody that would be excited about it or just say thanks for thinking of me.
I'm not interested.
And I leave it at that.
I'm very straight and to the point.
That's perfect.
And being brief, that brevity.
Leads to a lot of clarity.
Exactly.
And I think what happens, especially because we are a society that like, we're so focused on email, even being just really crystal clear, if it's not a conversation I always prefer a conversation, whether on the phone or in person.
But if it's something that you're communicating and writing, leave no room for error.
Yes.
Let's just be so clear that there's nothing to interpret other than that your answer is no.
That's true.
Yeah, because the thing is, the more that you speak, the more you expose yourself to potential vulnerability and potential attack.
And so just being very clear and to the point is one of the most persuasive thing that you could do.
Absolutely.
So, for those listeners who are interested in listening to the role play, it just happened and it was phenomenal.
I must say it was a lot of fun and very illuminating, I'd say.
Check that out.
We're posting this at the same time.
Before you go.
Reagan, if you could challenge our audience to do one thing in the next week to become a better negotiator, what would it be?
I would love to challenge the audience to say no to one thing that they feel they should say yes to.
So say no to one should.
And I would love it if they reported that back to me in terms of what happened afterward.
Did the sky fall down if they said no?
Probably not because I would know.
Okay.
Exactly.
Oh, I love it.
But I say no to one should in your life this week.
Very cool.
And so on that point, what's the best way for them to keep in touch with you?
LinkedIn.
Just look me up, Reagan Walsh or at Reagan Walsh on Twitter.
And I'm an old fashioned girl.
So even sending me an email, Reagan at Reagan Walsh dot com.
That would be my favorite way, because it seems like we would be a little bit more connected and personal.
Perfect.
Well, thank you so much for joining us.
This has been really great.
Oh my gosh, it's my pleasure.
It's always a treat to share space with you, Kwame.
You've just heard two powerful perspectives on the same topic, two stories, two lived experiences and two ways of seeing the same challenge.
Now we're adding one more voice to the conversation, because real mastery isn't built in a single point of view.
It is shaped by contrast nuance and the space between perspectives.
This final chapter rounds out the picture of offering deeper insight and another lens to help you connect the dots.
Here's the third and final installment of this masterclass series.
Eliana, thanks for joining us today.
Thank you for having me.
I'm so excited to be here.
Yeah, we are excited to have you.
So happy to get us started by telling us a little bit about yourself and what you do.
Sure.
So my name is Eliana.
I am a career coach and I primarily work with the millennial Gen Z generation, those who are predominantly in the workforce right now.
And my goal is really helping people get to the next level in their careers through learning the strategies, setting the goals, developing the mindsets to be able to do that.
And a lot of my focus is really in career pivots and transitions.
It's those who have been working mid-career.
They're getting to that breaking point.
They're realizing they're not on the right path anymore and they're wanting to make a change, but not really quite sure what that change should be.
And grappling with a lot of the questions of if I make this change, am I gonna have to start all over?
Am I gonna have to take a major pay cut?
Do I have to go back to school?
And really figuring all of that out.
And my goal is to help them realize that, no, you don't need to start from scratch.
You don't need to take that major pay cut.
You can leverage the skills you have to find the right career and build one that you feel aligned with and that you feel excited about.
So that's really my goal as a coach and what i look to help people achieve.
I love it.
And also, my humble friend, make sure you shout out your course as well.
Yes, So going along with that, I have a course called The Career Upgrade, which is all about upgrading your career and really teaching you the four-step process that I teach my clients to be able to make that change, find that new career, and then also execute on it.
What steps you need to actually take to successfully make it happen.
Get that offer up and land where you want to be.
Love it.
And everybody.
We are going to have links to all of these goodies in the description of this episode.
So make sure you check that out.
And, as you know, when we have our guests on, they do a lot of preparation beforehand and I always try to mix it up when they get on the call.
So Eliana, see you with option B.
And so Eliana, the whole conversation that we had before the interview started.
When it comes to human interaction and negotiation in general, what is giving you the most energy right now?
So I was sharing before we started recording that.
Ironically, I am now getting energy because I was having a very big lack of energy.
And that was because I noticed, and I just talked about this on Instagram stories this morning.
So this could not be more authentic that I had told myself going into the summer.
You know I was going to set clear boundaries for myself.
I was going to start saying no.
I was going to really give myself time and energy to recoup after what has been a really busy beginning of the year.
And I noticed that I was not doing that.
And I was saying, yes, like friend calling me, hey, can you talk about this?
Can you talk about that?
And I feel like whenever you're in a service industry, people are always kind of hitting you up for things.
And I've just been saying yes, because that's my nature.
So I set a very clear intention this morning that I'm going to be firm with my boundaries, that I had said I was going to hold have hard conversations, which is what I know this podcast is all about, which means saying no sometimes and really sticking to what I had set out for myself and show up less on social media, say no, spend time with my family and really enjoy my summer.
So that is what is giving me energy now, now that I've kind of stated that for myself.
Yeah.
I love it.
And the reason I wanted to do this selfishly is because I'm going through the same thing, Eliana.
I think a lot of us are.
So we could have a two second podcast and say, all right, great.
So say no more often and set those boundaries.
Peace out.
But as we all know, it's easier said than done.
And when I think about what you said in the introduction.
You said you want to help people build a career that they're excited about.
And you described you're building your own career with your own company.
And yet you were still running into this problem of boundary setting.
So it shows us that it's not just simply saying, oh, my job is encroaching on my lifestyle.
So I need to push back on the job because of your situation. you would be pushing back on yourself.
And I think a lot of us, we don't recognize that internal battle.
So let's talk about the challenge.
What makes it so hard to set these boundaries?
For me and I know a lot of people can resonate with it it's the fear of letting other people down, especially when you're in a service-based business.
But I'm sure, even when you're working for a big company, you have your managers, you have your coworkers, and it's the fear that I'm going to say no and someone's going to be disappointed in me and I'm not going to do as well as I could or I'm not going to hit that goal or complete that task.
And there's a lot of almost people pleasing that I think is caught up in all of it.
And that's always been something that I've struggled with.
If I can help somebody, then I want to.
So how do I protect myself while also feeling like I'm giving the help that people need?
And I think that's where the challenge is.
It's kind of like those two things coming up against one another.
That's a big struggle.
Absolutely.
And that's the thing.
We feel that tension, but a lot of times we don't actually explicitly articulate that tension because we have this internal battle I know what's best for me, I know what I want to do and what I should do.
But then I also feel this tension from other people where I'm saying okay, but I don't want to disappoint them, I care about the relationship.
And it feels like it's a binary choice me or them and we often end up choosing them.
And what's interesting too Eliana, I'm not sure if you can relate to this one, but sometimes we choose them and we make water sacrifices for ourselves, but the other people, they don't even realize that they're sacrifices.
And so they don't even recognize the impact this decision is having on us.
And it can almost feel unappreciated because they don't acknowledge the sacrifice.
One hundred percent.
Yeah, I think that.
And then you kind of get resentful towards them, even though you're the person who said yes.
And you're going, they don't realize what I'm doing for them.
And I'm going out of my way and my schedule is so busy.
They have no idea.
You're the one who said yes.
They just think that, oh, I asked her a favor.
I asked him a favor and they said yes.
Why is that my responsibility?
Right.
So it's that internal dialogue that's created.
And we create things that they don't even know are there.
So 100%.
Yeah.
Yes.
Okay, good.
Good, good.
I'm glad I'm not the only person.
You and everyone.
Yeah, great.
Well, yeah, let's get deeper into this.
Because right now you this morning, perfectly serendipitously made this public commitment.
So in your mind, what challenges did you have to overcome to get to this point where you were willing to make this change?
Well, I was starting to feel burnt out.
And like we're in July, I think a lot of people feel this way going into the summer where you think you want to take some time and relax and recuperate.
And, like I said, I had a really busy beginning of the year and I had set this intention and I wasn't following through.
And I was starting to just... feelings inside of me.
I was feeling burnt out and I was starting to feel anxious.
And I was almost feeling like, also for my clients that I work with, that I wasn't showing up as in as present of a way as I could, as powerfully as I could, because I was feeling so drained.
So it's like sometimes you got to cut certain connections or set those boundaries to show up more powerfully for those other people in your life.
I like to share on Instagram stories because I feel like that's accountability.
I'm like, if I'm going to put it out there to all those people, I really got to stay true to it.
So that was I did it this morning.
And, like you said, very serendipitous that now we're talking about this and that you asked me that question at the very beginning.
Absolutely.
This is great.
It's really helpful because essentially what you've done is you've validated your own emotion.
And a lot of times as busy professionals, we spend a lot of times invalidating our emotions.
I feel busy.
That's a good thing.
That's how I should be feeling.
Oh, I have a family.
I'm a mother.
I'm a father.
I'm working in this company, whatever it is.
This is how it's supposed to feel.
So you follow that feeling and you recognize, hey, I have an option here.
I have a choice.
And what you recognize is it's not the choice that we thought it was, where it's like me versus them.
It can be both.
And we could be a bit more flexible.
But we change in life when the pain of staying the same is greater than the pain of change.
Exactly.
We have to honor that in ourselves.
Yeah.
And I love that you said that too, because that sentence just resonates so deeply with my coaching practice and this notion that we're taught things right.
The notion I talk about Sunday scaries all the time.
We're always taught Oh, it's your job.
You're not really supposed to like it.
You go there for the paycheck and we're fed these beliefs and we hold on to these beliefs, which is why such a high percentage of the workforce is miserable right now.
Because we believe it's normal to not like your job and it's normal to feel really anxious going into the week.
But.
Sometimes doing that, like you, exactly like you said.
You say the pain of staying is outweighing or the pain of labor.
Maybe it's the opposite.
No, it's cool.
Yeah, we can clean it up to the pain of staying.
The same is greater that.
I wrote it down too, because I'm like well, you always mess this up.
So the pain of staying the same is worse than the pain of changing.
Right.
I hope I got it there.
And that's really what it's about.
You know, like you reach a point in your career where you realize like I cannot do this to myself anymore.
I can't imagine another six months of this, let alone another five, 10 years.
And when you feel that inside yourself, when you feel that internal battle, that is a clear sign.
It is time to look for something new and that it's not normal to allow yourself to keep saying that way and to keep feeling that way.
So I'm so glad that you said that.
Absolutely.
This is great.
So now the listeners can understand all right.
When I'm feeling like this, I don't just need to sit there and take it.
I can make the change and I can do something about it.
I can advocate for myself and set those boundaries.
And now let's put your coaching hat on Eliana.
Okay.
So let's say somebody is coming to you and they're saying, I'm struggling with setting boundaries.
How do I set effective boundaries?
Well, I think it first comes down to awareness, right?
I think a lot of the times the problem is that people say I want to set boundaries, but they don't know what those boundaries should be.
Cause it's a buzzword, right?
Boundaries.
And sometimes even when I say it, I feel very cliche.
But you have to get clear on what are your non-negotiables.
Like what is okay for you?
What is not okay for you?
Understand what those boundaries are.
And then understand I'm a very much a See what you can do, how you can fix it on your own, what the solution is, and then bring those solutions to your manager, to your coworker, to your partner, whatever it is right.
Come up with an idea of this is what I want my boundaries to be.
How do I think these boundaries could be addressed?
Now I'm being proactive, I'm problem solving.
And now, when I come and present this situation to whomever it may be, I'm not simply just venting and saying oh, I'm having an issue.
This is the boundary I need for myself.
I'm so stressed.
I'm coming from that problem solving perspective.
This is what I'm struggling with.
This is really the boundary that I would like to set for myself.
And here's how I propose that we can really input and create this boundary here.
And you're coming together to really like that conflict resolution together and being able to work on it.
So that's really the first key.
Yeah.
This is critical because starting with the awareness is really important, because a lot of times we might feel the feeling and we recognize something needs to change.
And then we go into these conversations and we're completely disorganized and we're just emoting in front of the other person and they don't even know what to do.
And so, starting with that awareness, not just of the fact that something's off but, more specifically, what do we need to do to get back on track?
Because again, like I said, this is something that I'm working on with myself, because I run the American Negotiation Institute.
We have a growing team and we're trying to do new things all the time, but I still have a family and I want to be present with them.
So I had to be really clear and say all right, This is how much time I want to spend with my family before work and after work, and what I want the weekends to look like.
I need to communicate that with my team so they know where they can and cannot go.
And so now I can say with myself Kwame, you can be as ambitious as you want within these time parameters.
And then I can communicate that clearly to the other side.
And so this just goes into the art of preparation before all of these difficult conversations.
It's that internal work first, figuring out, all right, something's off.
What do I need?
And with specificity, and then you can come to the conversation with clear solutions on what you need and why you need it.
Exactly, exactly.
And I love that too, because it's also, that's such effective leadership right there too.
And you're setting that example for your team and saying hey, I'm setting these boundaries for myself.
And that also gives your team permission to set boundaries as well.
Like now you're a ship all moving together.
So I love when people who are the boss, who are in that leadership position, can really exemplify those things for others.
So that's wonderful.
Definitely.
I think that's really important to pay attention to as well, because we are leaders in different ways, because people might be leaders because they are at the top of the company.
They might also be leaders because other humans see you doing things.
And I think it's so important for us, just even as parents as well, to show our kids that it's okay to set boundaries, so they don't just see us working ourselves half to death over the course of our careers.
But then also people on our teams.
They're going to be watching and they're going to say hey, Eliana just set that boundary.
And now she is much happier and her work product hasn't diminished and our relationship hasn't gone off the rails.
Okay, maybe I can do the same thing too.
Yeah, lead by example.
I love it.
Yes.
Okay.
Now, something that people often say is I'm afraid of setting boundaries because I don't want to hurt people's feelings.
And so how do we help people overcome that element?
I think that's the hardest part.
And that's the part that to this day, I still struggle with.
And we were touching on this a little bit before.
But I think what often happens is that we burn ourselves out and then we're not doing ourselves any favors, but we're also not doing others favors.
And I think that if we can share that in a respectful way, it can be really helpful.
We say, if a friend approaches us or a coworker approaches whoever it is and asks us for their health or something, whatever the situation is being able to share like hey, I'm so glad you came to me for this.
And you know, I care about you and I want to be there for you.
I'm at a point right now where I'm feeling stretched very thin.
And I feel like if I say yes, I can't give you the best version of myself.
Right.
So let's take a few days, or let's revisit this in a few weeks, where I know I can give you my full attention and really help you work through this issue or give you the support that you need.
So you're letting them know you care about them.
And this isn't like a no.
Right.
If someone comes to you and asks for help and you want to set a boundary, you don't go.
No no, I'm overwhelmed.
I can't do this right now.
Like you're bothering me, which I think sometimes people do to a degree.
So it's letting them know where you're at and also letting them know that, at the same time, like we can revisit this.
I'm not just ignoring you.
I'm not recognizing that you have a need that needs to be met or you have something that you need help with.
Like, I see that.
I see you.
I hear you.
I just can't do it right now because of X, Y Z, but check back with me in a few weeks and we'll recircle on this.
And I think that can make you feel better while also not hurting their feelings at the same time.
This is brilliant.
And I loved the fact that you gave the example of just essentially no go away.
And I think a lot of times people can get to that point after they've spent an extended period of time people pleasing silently suffering, and then they just blow up.
So a lot of times nice people can seem so mean from time to time because they fall victim to the people pleasing pressure.
I'm going to give in, give in, give in.
And then one day you're like, I'm not taking this anymore.
And the whole world looks at you like, what have you been taking?
I was completely unaware.
So that's really important.
What's going on?
Wow.
Yeah.
And so that's important to keep in mind too.
And then you're saying really is.
You're starting off the conversation by reaffirming the relationship.
Hey, I care about you and I recognize that you have this need and you're asking for this from me for X Y, Z reason.
I understand that.
And so my goal to you is to always be a good friend, a good family member, a good colleague, a good leader.
And I recognize I can't be that for you because right now I'm not in a good place.
And people would really respect that, because what ends up happening is that a lot of times, we say hey, I want to keep on saying yes to these things because I don't want to let people down and I want to be a high performer.
But then what ends up happening is we take on so many things that we end up being letting people down and being a low performer.
Exactly.
Counterintuitive.
Yeah, exactly.
And so setting that boundary can actually improve relationships, improve performance and productivity.
So if we just take the time and share that with the other person to let them know that we care and we're rejecting their request, but not rejecting them as a person, then we could actually advance the relationship while setting boundaries effectively.
Exactly.
Yeah.
I love the way you said that.
Yeah.
Rejecting their request, but not rejecting them as a person.
That is very key.
Absolutely.
So this is good.
Let's wrap up with some big mistakes that people often make in these situations.
So people are bought in.
Okay, great.
I'm going to reaffirm the relationship.
I'm going to set these boundaries as they're starting to go on this journey of assertiveness and self-advocacy.
What are some mistakes that you've seen people make?
I think what happens is this is with every negotiation conversation.
I see my clients do this all the time.
You share what it is that you need or you ask for what it is that you need.
And then immediately, maybe there's a moment of silence or they don't immediately respond in the way that you were hoping they would.
And then you just retract on everything. well, no, no, no, it's fine.
It's fine.
It's fine.
Like we can do this, right?
It's like in the negotiation conversations.
How many times my clients have said to me well, they didn't respond right away.
So I told them I just accept the offer as is.
And I'm like, no, no, no.
Silence is golden.
Sit in the silence, sit in the discomfort and lean into it, right?
Don't immediately retract because you thought that they were going to say no or they were thinking something terrible about you.
So it's like, sticking true to your boundaries, even in like the boundary conversation to a degree.
And when you share it with them, regardless of how they respond, whether they're understanding or they're not understanding.
Stay true to what it is that you want and know that there's still going to be resolution on the other side.
I think that's one of the biggest mistakes that people make.
And kind of same idea when there's maybe objections.
So, rather than silence, or they don't respond right away, but when there's a direct objection to what it is that you have to say, then again going back to oh well no, it's fine.
Yeah, I guess I can squeeze this in.
If they're going to object well, you can object back in a respectful way and share, like I hear you and I understand why you're saying this to me.
But I really have to stay true to this because, and you know, confirm and say again what it is that you had been saying previously.
Like, you have to stay to your original intentions.
And I think that makes all the difference often.
I love all of this.
It's so important because a lot of times we give up so soon.
And the problem is not that the negotiation strategies and tactics and principles don't work.
It's that we don't hold true to it long enough.
So, for example, somebody might do the right thing.
They'll say, Eliana, got it.
All right.
So I'm going to advocate for myself.
I'm going to do this research and do a little bit of introspection.
I'm going to be ready.
I want to know exactly what I'm going to ask for and why.
And then we go into the conversation and we're saying, hey, this is what I'm looking for.
And the person sits back and thinks for seven seconds.
You're like, I give up.
So you were able to maintain form for 13 seconds of the conversation.
That's not good enough.
So a lot of times it's not a question of whether or not the tactics or strategies or your approach to conversations is effective.
It's about whether or not you have the discipline, strength and confidence to utilize it long enough for it to work.
And when we feel that silence, then we give up and we fill in the gap with information.
They might've just been thinking to themselves oh, you know what?
That's a good point you brought up.
Let me figure out how I could make that work.
And then you just jump in and let them off the hook.
And then with the other side too, when we're thinking about, As the conversation progresses, how they're going to be objections.
They're going to be people who are resisting a little bit, or they just have some questions.
Again, a lot of times people say the negotiation doesn't begin until somebody says no.
And so we retreat too soon.
Concession and adjustment, those are things that are necessary.
But if you have a shallow bag of tools and tactics to resort to or you don't have much confidence, then you're going to resort to concession much too quickly.
Exactly, exactly.
And that's why you have to do the preparation beforehand, for whether it's like a big job offer negotiation or whether it's just a conversation again with your partner.
I mean, I'm not saying you have to be doing all this research before you go to talk to your partner, but you have to be conscientious.
You have to be strategic and thoughtful about them.
So it always requires a little bit of prep work ahead of time and anticipating what might happen so that you can be ready and in a position to be able to handle that situation, whatever it might be.
Yeah.
Love it.
Oh, this is so good.
So good.
And so now I think listeners who are saying to themselves you know what?
I have a career transition coming up.
I might want to hire a coach and they're looking for a coach.
Eliana, could you give them some suggestions as who they should reach out to?
Yeah.
Well, I mean, obviously I'm here for you, and there's a lot of other amazing career coaches out there as well.
And what I would say too, just to anybody thinking about a transition.
There's so many myths and beliefs that I hear all the time.
Really, one of the big ones being this notion of a pay cut.
I can't tell you how many people I have spoken to who say well, I really want to make this change and I know I could do it, but I'm going to have to start over.
I'm going to have to take a massive pay cut.
I can't afford that for my family.
I can't afford that for my life.
And Obviously, I get that fear, but it couldn't be further from the truth.
And I have helped people shift from.
I had a client that worked as a manager of an ice cream store.
That's now a digital marketing manager, right.
So that wasn't a pay cut at all.
That was a huge increase.
So, point being that there's so many skills and transferable qualities and skills that you have that you can leverage.
And I always tell my clients, it's not the most qualified person who gets the job offer.
It is the best job seeker, the person who is clear on their value, on their abilities, and knows how to translate that effectively and knows how to tell engaging stories to showcase that.
And anyone can learn to do that, right?
Anybody can learn to be a better job seeker.
So stop worrying so much about your qualifications and think more about how you're presenting yourself.
Do you have the awareness around your skills and your values and your abilities?
And then are you able to communicate that effectively in those type conversations?
I love it.
Eliana, this was a masterclass in assertiveness and boundary setting.
I really appreciate it.
And, before you go, just let the listeners know about where they can get in touch and learn more about what you do.
Yeah, absolutely.
So even though I said I was social media hiatus, you can still connect with me over there.
I will still be posting content.
I can never fully give it up.
And it's just my name, Eliana underscore Goldstein.
That's on both LinkedIn and Instagram, as well as Reels.
I just join threads.
I'm everywhere these days.
Trying to be present in all places while still watching out for those boundaries.
So please connect with me there.
Shoot me a DM.
I always like to chat with people.
Love it.
Eliana, thanks so much.
Really appreciate it.
Of course.
Thank you again for having me.
That's the power of a masterclass.
One topic, multiple lenses, and real-world application.
You've just heard three experts tackle the same issue in different ways, and now the question is what will you do with it?
Negotiation isn't theory.
It's practice.
It's self-awareness.
It's choosing courage over comfort.
So pick one insight today and apply it in your next conversation, because skill doesn't come from listening.
It comes from doing.
I'll catch you in the next one.
Hey, if you're still here, that means you really like this episode.
So why don't you leave us a review?
Five stars, please.
That really means the world to us and it helps other people find the show.
And now, I will catch you later.
