Sirius XM Podcasts.
Hey, Dan here and we are reaching deep into the archives for a classic, sporkful episode for today's reheat.
This one was requested by a listener named Sandy in Michigan who writes, One episode that I've mentioned to more than a few people is Rachel Maddow fixed the piña colada.
Like Dan, I also want to know when I can eat the cocktail garnish.
That's something we cover in this episode.
So perhaps this reheat could use a little revisit.
You got it, Sandy.
And I had the opportunity to work with Rachel Maddow when I was a producer.
This was my first real job in radio.
I was a producer on the now defunct progressive talk radio network, Air America.
Rachel wasn't on TV yet.
And then over the time that I was at Air America, her career took off.
And so when I started this pork full, I was like, all right, I got to get a couple of celebrities on my show to try to get some listeners.
The only two celebrities that I knew or that I would respond to my emails were Mark Maron, whose show that I had produced at Air America, and Rachel Maddow, who I had worked with.
So very early on I called in a favor and Rachel was kind enough and gracious enough to spend time, quite a lot of time, with me for this recording, because I realized about halfway through that my battery had died and I wasn't recording.
And we started from the beginning again.
She's the best.
This episode also includes my old friend Mark Garrison, who is my co-host in the very early days of the show.
Of course, remember, there's an episode of The Sporkful you want us to pull out of the deep freezer.
Be like Sandy in Michigan.
Drop me a line to hello at sporkful.com.
Tell me your first name, location, what episode you want to hear, and why.
Thanks so much, and enjoy Rachel Maddow and the piña colada.
If I was on death row and they let your last meal be liquor, which they don't, I think the pina colada would actually be one of those things that would be up there for a last meal.
That said, I never drink them in real life because in real life I'm not having my last meal and I have to live with the consequences of drinking a piña colada.
It would be good right before an execution, because then I wouldn't have to worry about the headache, let alone the stomachache.
Yeah, you know it's true.
Piña coladas are way better in theory than in practice.
Today on The Sporkful I sit down with MSNBC host Rachel Maddow and she tells us how she has fixed the piña colada.
Yes, it's true, she fixed it with her very own recipe.
Plus, we'll nerd out on cocktails big time.
Which shape of lime garnish is better, wedge or wheel?
And what's the best way to eat the cherry that comes with your Manhattan?
But so you're sort of digging through your drink with a toothpick, trying to get that maraschino cherry out of the bottom, fishing it up through the drink, swallowing it and then putting the stem somewhere and then finishing off the garnish-less drink.
It sounds pretty gross the way you describe it.
That's all coming up.
Stick around.
This is The Sporkful.
It's not for foodies, it's for eaters.
I'm Dan Pashman.
Each week on our show, we obsess about food to learn more about people.
Rachel Maddow is one of the best-known TV news people in America.
She hosts The Rachel Maddow Show on MSNBC, as you probably know.
She's also really into cocktails.
In fact, she does a segment on her show, sometimes called Cocktail Moment, where she shares a drink recipe that somehow relates to the news.
Last year, during the election, she went on Jimmy Fallon and made a drink called The Millionaire in honor of Donald Trump.
So this is the bitter part.
Yeah, and what is it, your little tiny little measuring cup thing?
Yeah, I'm measuring 3 quarters of an ounce of lime juice, which is a lot of lime juice and if you have an ulcer it'll make you barf blood.
It's terrible.
Rachel and I actually worked together years ago at a place called Air America Radio.
It was a progressive talk radio network with Al Franken and Janine Garofalo and Marc Maron.
It was my first real job in radio and no one knew who she was.
And we both had to come in at like three in the morning and I helped produce her newscasts, which was a ton of fun other than the 3 am part.
Anyway, when the Sporkful launched seven years ago, I knew I had to have Rachel on to talk cocktails.
I began by asking Rachel about the garnishes that come with cocktails.
First question, how and when do you eat the olives in a martini or the cherry in a Manhattan?
I think I'm going to be able to short circuit this entire discussion.
Okay.
You're never supposed to eat the garnish.
The garnish is not a snack.
The garnish is there to modify the liquor that is in the glass.
It is not there to provide you a tasty treat to go along with your drink.
The drink is the treat.
So then I think the use of the word garnish here is wrong.
Because to me, a garnish is something that is on the side.
It's just there to make it look pretty.
If it is in the drink, then it's part of the drink.
It's not a garnish.
You're not supposed to eat that little carved radish that comes on the thing that you just ordered at Applebee's.
They carved it three days ago and it's been on six different plates.
You're also really not supposed to eat the thing that's not liquor in your drink.
Sorry.
I know it's very upsetting.
I would say that if you're going to eat your olive or your cherry or whatever, then it should be between the one third of the way through the drink mark and the two thirds of the way through the drink mark.
But that means you've got to be fishing in there with your fingers.
A straw.
A straw can do it.
Yeah, I think a straw or a stirrer, you know, you can poke it out.
You can get it out of there.
It's impossible to do it with elegance, though, isn't it?
Admit it.
Oh, I didn't know that elegance was one of the criteria, right?
If elegance was part of the issue here, that went out the window a long time ago, right?
I'm going to tie my hands behind my back and just oatbag nosedive into this thing.
Actually, a side question on that.
I find I like the Manhattan better without the cherry, at least the maraschino kind of cherry they usually have behind the bar.
Unless however, you have like a proper brandy soaked cherry.
That's pretty good.
But even if it's a fancy cherry like that and it's been sitting out in a plastic tray on the bar all night,
Like, really?
Would you eat something else from a restaurant that had been sitting out in the customer area like warm in its own juices festering?
You've never been tempted by an olive, something in a drink to try?
Like, what if someone put like a Kalamata olive in a martini?
That would be gross.
It would have sullied the gin to a degree that I wouldn't have enjoyed the martini in the first place.
I don't think I would do it.
I mean, here's the thing is that I do most of my cocktail drinking at home on the weekends.
I have a bar at home and I make drinks.
And so if I am having martinis with olives although I'm more of a lemon twist person myself but if I'm doing that and I want the olive,
I've got olives because I use them to make the drink and I will make myself a little dish of olives and have it on the side.
If you want snacks, get snacks.
Now, what about, Rachel, the best practices for using citrus garnishes?
Citrus garnishes are a wonderful thing.
What you're trying to do with the citrus garnish is express the oil from the piece of citrus onto the surface of the drink.
So you don't need any of the pith, any of the pulpy part, right?
You don't need any fruit, certainly, but you also don't need a very thick portion of the rind.
You just want that outside part that's got the sort of oily pores on it.
So Really, what you ought to do with the citrus garnish like I, for example, like a lemon twist with my martini is that you want a very thinly sliced piece of lemon rind.
You spritz it, spritz the oil out of that piece of rind onto the surface of the drink and then throw it away.
You don't even need to put it in the drink.
It offers – there's very little additional flavor.
Yum that you get out of having the expressed garnish sitting in the drink.
What you want is the oil.
And so what is your technique for making these twists?
I know there is a tool that you can buy that makes it a little bit easier, but I've always been kind of embarrassed by the really ugly looking twists that I'm barely able to get off of a lemon.
Well, if you have a sharp...
Herring knife.
I do, and it doesn't work.
It doesn't work.
I see the little tool that bartenders use to make those really perfect twists.
Oh, yeah, that's called a channel knife.
But, you know, that's an interesting thing, though.
The kind of twist you can make, it sort of looks like a...
It cuts like a notch into the fruit.
So you get this very thick, perfectly constructed, can be very long, curly Q kind of twist.
Very pretty, not very functional in terms of adding citrus oil to the drink.
I mean, what actually works the best if you're not good with a paring knife is a potato peeler.
Take a potato peeler to the outside of a lemon.
It'll cut a very thin – if it's sharp, it'll cut a very thin swath off the outside of the lemon.
It'll leave – you'll leave a white streak on the lemon where you've cut it off.
You won't see fruit or anything.
It's very thin.
And then just –
You just want to spray it on.
So the way you do it, Rachel, the citrus never actually touches the liquid.
Right.
See, like I like a gin and tonic with lime and I want a lot of lime flavor in my gin and tonic.
You're talking about the actual juice from the flesh of the of the lime.
Right.
Oh, I would put.
I put I put a bunch of lime in my gin and tonic, but I wouldn't, you'd never use like a lime twist right right, you wouldn't use a twist.
Exactly, if you're gonna use the wedge, i want a wedge where i can squeeze the wedge and get the juice out into my drink.
I got a big problem then with the semicircle.
Yeah, i want that wedge, i want the triangular wedge, because the semicircle, you know, when you squeeze it it just kind of like crumbles and falls apart in your hand and not that much juice comes out or a wheel, is even worse.
Yep oh, the Why.
Why?
I mean, why would you ever want it that shape?
The wedge of citrus.
The piece of citrus is not there to allow you to recalibrate the drink, because it was mixed poorly.
The drink is mixed properly and the fruit is there to be a pleasing visual experience.
So if you need to be squeezing more citrus into your drink because it's too sweet.
That just means the drink was made wrong.
So then is a wedge a garnish?
A wedge is a garnish.
But I'm counting on that wedge.
Don't.
Ask the bartender to put more lime juice in your gin and tonic.
Dan, I know I'm blowing your mind.
Look at you.
You look hurt.
But I like having control.
I like knowing that I'm going to finish the drink and it's going to be the way I want.
I'm going to squeeze the juice in and then I'm going to push that lime all the way down to the bottom of the drink.
So you have always got your paws in your drink.
This is what we're learning about you.
Clearly aesthetics are not my concern.
But also, like, do you wash your hands every time before you have a drink?
Well, I'm pretty sanitary.
If you are counting on digging around in your drink to fork the garnish out when you are only one third of the way into the drink.
And you are pondering on pawing your garnish, squeezing it in and then shoving it down underneath the ice.
And in between each of these things you are paying the bartender and shaking your friend's hand and getting change, and all this stuff.
I mean, you're Typhoid Mary, dude.
You mean other people don't drink with their hands?
I mean, liquor is antiseptic, but unless you are drinking 151 all day, nothing is antiseptic enough to make up for your muddy paw drinking habits, Dan.
Leave the drink alone.
I don't know.
The other week, we had researcher Charles Spence on the show.
He talked about how much touch is part of the eating experience, how much of taste comes from what we feel with our hands.
Yeah, I know.
He didn't specifically talk about putting your hands in your drink, but I'm going to assume he'd be on board with my approach.
Anyway, the conversation with Rachel turned from drinks to bartenders.
We talked about the many issues bartenders have to deal with, and then we got to a less obvious one martinis.
Now, a true martini is made with gin.
But nowadays, a lot of people who order martinis expect vodka.
So if you're a bartender, someone asks for a martini, What do you do?
In an ideal world, everybody would know that a martini was made with gin and that would be the default, and you'd have to ask for a vodka martini.
It used to be that way.
It used to be that way.
James Bond and marketing, Stoli, it changed everything.
Yes.
And now you're in a situation where people are more likely than not expecting vodka rather than gin.
But you can, as a bar, just decide you're going to make the wrong thing and call it a martini every day and thereby horrify everybody who knows how to drink and scare them away from your bar.
Or you can ask.
And I think you can ask in a way that is personable and not insulting.
Did you want to – you wanted that with vodka?
Or you wanted that with gin?
There were also really great hand motions with this.
It doesn't come across on audio, but yeah.
So it's not just the voice.
But you do it with the inflection and you do it with eye contact and kindness and all of those things I mean.
Being a bartender is a subtle difficult, humanitarian task, psychology involved.
Yeah yeah, I mean you are.
Why do people drink?
People drink at bars very rarely because they feel like they have to.
Once you're an adult, there isn't a peer pressure situation that gets you into having a drink in a bar, especially now in the 2000s.
If you are in a bar and you are feeling peer pressured into being there in order to like, make right with your coworkers, nobody's going to be upset if you get a ginger ale.
Nobody's going to judge you for that.
Right.
So we are in a situation, as adults in the 2000s, where if you are ordering a drink in a bar, it is for something in your life.
It is to do something for your day, to do something for your state of mind, to do something to pass the time in a way that is unlike almost anything else you'll do in your day.
And so the bartender has a responsibility, the bar manager in some cases, to make sure that that time is.
Stepping away from the rest of your day, unlike anything else that you experience in the day, and is a stress reliever rather than an addition to the stress in your daily life.
And that's a big responsibility.
I don't even feel cynical about it at all even with bad bartenders and bad drinkers around me.
I feel a very earnest sense of responsibility about what it is to be a bartender.
Right.
Actually, when we were preparing for this, I was curious.
Do you drink more when the left is doing well or poorly?
For me, drinking is not about happiness.
Okay.
For me, drinking is about time.
It's about having time to spend and wanting to spend it in a way that involves alcohol.
I tend to be a very happy drunk.
At this point in my life, I don't drink to get drunk.
It was definitely a time in my life when I did that, but I don't do that.
That is sometimes a side effect of drinking, but it's not the goal.
If I do get tipsy, I tend to be a person who experiences slight euphoria and happiness about it.
And so that's neat.
But that's no more a reward for a happy circumstance in life than it is a relief from an unhappy circumstance in life.
Coming up, more with Rachel Maddow.
She'll reveal the secret ingredient of the Maddow Colada.
It's like a piña colada, but way better.
And I'll ask her to name one food that's not improved by the addition of either melted cheese or chocolate syrup.
Hear the answer when we come back.
Stick around.
Time to cook up some advertisements.
Welcome back to another Sporkful Reheat.
I'm Dan Pashman.
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Now back to this week's reheat.
Before Rachel Maddow and I met up, I emailed her to ask her what cocktail issues in particular she wanted to discuss.
And she wrote back with one line, the tragedy of the pina colada.
Now, as I said before, I was lucky enough to work with Rachel early in our careers.
And let me tell you something.
No matter what room Rachel is in, she is the smartest and also the most prepared person there.
You come into a meeting, you think you found a great story or a great guest for the show to cover.
Rachel already knows all about it.
So I guess I shouldn't have been surprised that she did research before coming on The Sporkful.
She had notes on the history of the piña colada.
1957 is the date that is commonly assigned to the origin of the pina colada.
And as with all drinking history, drinking history was written down by drunk people.
And so it's all a little fuzzy.
But this is generally what it is.
So it was invented in Puerto Rico, and in 1949, so eight years before the piña colada is invented, Coco Lopez is invented.
Coco Lopez, you can still get.
It's still called Coco Lopez.
It's the same brand.
It is what we think of as cream of coconut and it is the base for the piña colada.
The problem is that when we think about bad chemical drinks that make you feel bad and that give you a stomachache and make you fat and sort of rob you of your brain cells and have made you feel like you've eaten Twinkies sort of thing, we think about having redesigned for modern ease or transportation or storage purposes drinks that were once wholesome.
The tragedy of the piña colada is that the piña colada was never wholesome.
The piña colada in 1957, from the very start, was built on something horrible, which is Coco Lopez.
Coco Lopez, cream of coconut.
I grabbed the can.
Starts off okay.
Coconut, sugar, water, polysorbate 60, sorbitan monosterate, propylene glycol, alginate...
Polysorbate 60 is actually among the better polysorbates.
Now, I feel like between like 37 and 45, they were kind of the high points of polysorbates.
Yeah, you get to 60, it really starts to fall off.
So the pina colada was invented from the first place to be a chemical slurry.
Unlike other drinks that have been made into awful things in modern times.
Like the daiquiri.
Like the daiquiri.
The real daiquiri is a fine drink, but you will get horrible versions of it most places.
That's exactly right.
And so with a daiquiri now, you're likely to get it out of a Slurpee machine.
And it's made with some chemical stew that makes Coco Lopez sound like mother's milk.
But you can reverse engineer a daiquiri to what it originally was, which is rum, lime, sugar.
End of story.
And it is a wonderful, wonderful drink.
There's no way to do that with the pina colada.
When you bring it back to brass tacks, it is as gross as it is today.
What if you were to just take fresh pineapple juice, coconut milk and rum and just mix those things together and put it on the rocks?
Thank you, Dan Pashtun.
I have reengineered the piña colada.
Wow.
Yes.
This is huge.
Yes.
Because the thing that you get from cream of coconut that you don't get from just using coconut, is that you get this unctuous in a good way rich, positive mouthfeel, deep flavored coconut sweetness.
And you can't get that just from using natural coconut milk.
Right.
Or natural coconut juice.
Okay, okay.
So you have to use unsweetened coconut milk leavened with... This is the crazy part.
That's the almond syrup, right?
Almond syrup.
Is that not the secret ingredient to a Mai Tai?
It is the secret ingredient to a Mai Tai.
It is a classic cocktail ingredient.
And you can get like organic, not gross versions of it.
There's a French one that you can get on Amazon, which is just like there's no preservatives in it or anything.
So it's essentially like an almond syrup.
Mix that with organic, unsweetened coconut milk.
The original pina colada recipe, as far as I understand, used Myers rum, which is a very dark but sort of acrid rum.
When you're using this replacement for Coco Lopez…
You need something a little more subtle, so I recommend using like an eight-year rum instead of the Myers, which is very, very dark.
But you make those little tweaks.
You trade away the chemical slurry of the Coco Lopez, which is original.
Right.
Right.
And instead add your hippie ass unsweetened coconut milk mixed with almond syrup.
But it works.
That is great.
Do we have permission, Rachel, to promote your recipe?
Absolutely.
Good because, you see, this workflow is supposed to be a clearinghouse, a gathering place where people come together and learn about new and better ways to eat, where new innovations in food and drink can be shared.
That's very high-minded.
Yeah.
In fact, someday we're going to form Sporkful University.
Our motto is ruminate, masticate, promulgate.
Yeah.
My idea was that once I got fired from cable news, that I would try to seek my millions as an entrepreneur.
So this had been my business plan for life.
But I've decided that you guys could probably do better with it.
But, you know, if things for you take a turn for the worse, you know, you call us.
We'll talk.
All right.
I could license it back from you.
Yes, we'll work together.
It'll be like one of those behind the music things.
You know where you sign your life away, like on a cocktail napkin, and then it turns out you need the money later on.
But we own you.
And you guys are like living in Memphis in some big mansion and I'm homeless outside banging on the gate.
I know how this goes.
I got to say, since this interview was recorded, I have made Rachel's piña colada many times and it is so good.
It has all the pineapple coconut flavor.
It has that sweet, syrupy mouthfeel without the grossness and without all that slush.
It's just served on the rocks, and it's strong.
Two of these, and you are well on your way, let me tell you.
If you're looking for that organic French orgeat almond syrup she mentioned, the brand is Tessere.
And more piña colada madness for you, because our pal Daniel Gritzer from Serious Eats, he's got a new piece going up about piña coladas.
And he says one of the reasons why it's hard to make a great pina colada is because ideally, you'd use fresh pineapple juice.
But fresh pineapple juice can be all over the map in sweetness and in flavor.
So getting consistency in your recipe can be really hard.
Daniel recommends combining some fresh juice with some store-bought juice.
And he uses lime juice, too, which I think is genius.
Get a little tart in there.
Check out Daniel's piña colada piece on Serious Eats.
Anyway, coming up, Mark and I get to the bottom of Rachel's personal food preferences.
That's after the break.
Stick around.
It's time to open up a can of advertisements.
Welcome back.
Let's get back to Rachel Maddow.
Now, in the early days of this pork full, we used to give our guests a questionnaire in the style of the Proust questionnaire.
You know, the one James Lipton used to give on Inside the Actor's Studio.
But we refashioned it to be about food.
So would Rachel be up to the task?
Are you ready?
All right, I'm ready.
Rachel, what is your favorite food?
That's like asking, what is your favorite song?
I would say pumpkin pie.
What is your least favorite food?
Uh...
Red bell peppers.
Cooked or raw?
Yes.
What dish do you cook best?
Or we could say, what cocktail do you prepare best?
Or both.
I am not a cook.
I have a hard time combining ingredients with heat.
The thing that I make the best is.
I actually think that, given the proper tools, ingredients and time, I make a world-class martini.
Excellent.
And with the lemon twist is your preference, right?
With a lemon twist and orange bitters.
Oh, orange bitters.
Okay.
One dash of orange bitters.
What dish do you wish you could cook?
Oh, my mom makes bread every Christmas time, which is an oatmeal molasses bread.
And it is the thing that I associate with Christmas.
I'm not a fan of Christmas, but the fact that my mom makes that bread at Christmastime makes me like the entire season.
It compensates for everything else that is bad about Christmas.
And she's given me the recipe five or ten times.
I've tried to make it a million different times.
It not only doesn't even come out as good as my mom's Christmas bread, it doesn't even come out as bread.
I don't know what it is that she does, but she has.
Polly 60.
It's Polly Sorbet 60.
It could be Coco Lopez, baby.
Yeah.
This is something that I've been pondering for years.
What is one food that is not improved by the addition of either melted cheese or chocolate syrup?
White rice is not improved by the addition of chocolate syrup, nor by melted cheese.
Really?
You never have any cheese on rice?
No.
Yeah.
It's not a good move.
All right.
Yeah.
If served rice on a plate and there's melted cheese elsewhere on the plate, you know how, if you like melted cheese, you have a way of moving it around on the plate so that it makes its way into every forkful.
If rice is one of the other things on the plate, I will not do that with the cheese.
Okay, what alcoholic beverage did you drink too much of as a teenager, thus rendering the beverage undrinkable for you for the rest of your life?
Oh, get back on the horse, people.
There is no such thing as an undrinkable beverage that is undrinkable because of a prior bad experience.
There are all sorts of undrinkable, bad alcoholic beverages, but they have nothing to do with your wussy childhood, teenage experience.
Get back on the horse, please.
Good answer.
Buck up.
All right.
What is a food that you loved as a child that you hate now?
I used to drink the brine out of black olive, canned black olives when I was a kid.
Oh, my God.
Yeah.
Okay.
Speaking of brine in jars, what do you think of the growing promotion of the pickleback, which is a shot with a pickle juice chaser?
I am not opposed to the idea in principle.
I have never tried one, nor am I intrigued.
I think that's also the right answer.
Yeah.
Okay.
What is a food that you hated as a child that you love now?
Oh, nuts.
I hated all nuts as a child.
All nuts.
This wasn't an allergy or anything?
No, it was – I had convinced myself as a kid that eating nuts would give me splinters in my mouth because I thought they were like wood.
And so I not only didn't like nuts, I was afraid of them.
I thought they would cause me injury.
Do you remember the moment when you discovered you were wrong about the woodiness of nuts?
Susan, my partner Susan, makes chocolate chip cookies with nuts in them, with chopped nuts in them.
And I remember telling her, yeah, I don't eat nuts and chocolate chip cookies.
And then there's chocolate chip cookies there.
And so, yeah, I'm eating them and it's fine.
And I'm not getting splinters and everything's okay.
Final question, Rachel.
If heaven exists, what would you like to see on the menu?
If heaven exists, I think that we no longer have to make decisions about our food choices.
We are constantly being enlightened as to what it is that we love, not through past experience, but through trust in what is to come.
Kind of like with that bartender.
Exactly.
Sometimes some bars are heavenly because the bartender knows what you ought to be drinking way better than what you think you ought to be drinking.
That's Rachel Maddow, host of The Rachel Maddow Show on MSNBC.
And if you want her piña colada recipe, it's on sporkfulcom, or get it when you sign up for our newsletter.
Go to sporkful.com slash newsletter.
This show is produced by Anne Sanney and me.
Dan Charles is our editor.
Music help from Black Label Music.
This work was a production of Stitcher.
Our executive producers are Chris Bannon and Jenny Radelet.
Until next time, I'm Dan Pashman.
And this is Douglas from Memphis Tennessee, reminding you to eat more, eat better and eat more better.
This reheat was produced by Gianna Palmer.
The team that produces the Sporkful today includes me, along with managing producer Emma Morgenstern and senior producer Andres O'Hara.
Our engineer is Jared O'Connor.
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It's everything you want in a podcast app and music app all rolled into one.
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Until next time, I'm Dan Pashman.
