Lemonada.
Hello, we're here for More Happier, a podcast where we get happier.
Join us for some weekend listening.
It's observations and reflections, but we're kicking back with a looser vibe.
Hey, Elizabeth.
Hey, Gretch.
Today, we'll talk about whether we get tired of thinking about how to be happier.
And I'll also ask Elizabeth about something she said on Happier in Hollywood that amazed me.
But first, something making us happier.
Elizabeth, what is something making you happier?
Rich.
I've talked a lot about how I've been socializing more lately, seeing more people going out more.
And what I've realized that is making me happier is that you can build your social muscles.
Mm-hmm.
So it can feel so effortful to socialize and like it's so exhausting.
And the idea of doing it is overwhelming.
But the more you do it, the easier it gets.
And it really is building that muscle.
And then it takes less room in your brain, sort of before like thinking, oh my gosh, I have something on the calendar Tuesday
How am I going to handle it?
I'm going to be so tired.
But no, once you go out and start doing it more, then it's just easier to do.
So many things, the more you do it, the more you do it.
You're just sort of in the habit of it.
It doesn't feel like such a big deal.
That one week you went out, what'd you got?
You had like four plans in one week.
Yes.
And then once you've done four in a week, well, then doing one thing at a week seems like nothing.
It seems so doable.
So again, it's like that muscle.
And I think it's just a relief or comforting to me to know it does become more incorporated into life and easier and more manageable when you do it more.
Also, it encourages me to keep doing it so that I don't let my social muscles atrophy.
Well, and the thing about socializing too is, if you do things, then other people will invite you to other things.
If you host, then they invite you.
And then if you show up, then people are like, oh, she's interested in this kind of thing.
I think that on the margins maybe you'll go to things that maybe you wouldn't have otherwise gone to.
You're sort of like, yeah, maybe I'll go.
But it's funny how, taking the room in your brain, it is the kind of thing where with some events, I don't think about them at all, but there are other ones where it just feels like it takes a lot out of you before you even go.
Right.
Yeah.
Right.
Right.
Another thing that is true, and I don't know if this is exactly on the topic of building your social muscles, but when you say, like going out leads to more invitations, etc.
I also find that often when people are together,
They start thinking about other things to do together.
That is such a great point.
That is so true.
So often.
No, or you go to an event and then you're like, oh, we should get together for lunch.
And so then you have a lunch with somebody that you haven't seen in a year.
Yes.
And so you want to be there when those other plans are being made, because often those are really fun things.
Yeah.
So that's a reason to go.
We're always saying just show up or say yes, even if you want to say no and follow through.
And we have all sorts of Tips and tricks for doing social things.
And so one of them is be there when the plans are getting made.
You know, if someone's coming up with a fun weekend away, you want to be one of the people on the planning end.
Well, one of the funniest things, and this was a long time ago now, that's an example of this.
So, you know, I have my children's literature reading groups.
Yes.
So a towering classic of modern children's literature is Philip Pullman's His Dark Materials sequence.
Everybody in this kid-like group knows these books because they are these towering classics and they're so good.
And so there came the day this was a long time ago when the first movie of the Golden Compass came out.
And we were all there and we're like, let's all go.
And of course, all these people like had work, but we just picked a day and all these people played hooky from work and we all snuck out.
And watch the Golden Compass.
Now, that first Golden Compass movie was no good.
So we didn't enjoy the movie and we were rolling our eyes the whole time.
But it was just such a fun thing.
And it was just this spontaneous thing like ooh, can we all just make this secret plan and meet at the movie?
And then we met in the movie theater in the middle of a work day.
It felt, I mean, I still remember it because.
Because it felt so illicit.
Oh, my gosh.
It was like, you know, ditch day in high school or something like that.
It was so fun.
But it just came out of that group.
Because I would never on my own have done it or thought to say to somebody, let's do it.
It came out of just the energy of being together in the group.
Yes.
And it was so fun.
Exactly.
Yeah.
So that is really giving me a lot of happiness.
And it also feels very summery going out and building my social muscles.
This feels like such a big idea to me.
I think that we should do a whole Try This at Home about build your social muscle.
Oh, I love that.
And really think about what is it.
I think this idea of...
If you've done four, then one seems more manageable.
If you're in the habit of it, it gets easier.
If you're there, plans lead to more plans.
Plans lead to reciprocal plans.
So anyway listeners, if you have any thoughts about building the social muscle and how to build the social muscle, it's interesting.
Listen, this is like one of our major themes right now.
Yes.
It's connection, socializing.
Maybe it's also because people work from home.
The idea of planning a social life or even networking events and things like going to conferences, all these things.
They just seem like you have to be more deliberate about it.
Yes.
Interesting.
Yes.
I can't wait to hear what people suggest for building your social muscle.
Okay.
Well, that's a very happiness-boosting realization.
You can build your social muscle.
What about you, Gretch?
What's making you happier and happier?
Well, I have to say it again.
It's the Knicks.
I mean OK, can I just say that this is the bonkers thing is, I've never really been interested in sports at all.
But sort of as the empty nest something.
Jamie, he had these friends that said OK, let's share these season tickets.
And Jamie said to me. okay, now you're going to have to get interested in the Knicks.
And at first I was like, no, I'm not going to.
And then I thought, no, that's a great idea.
I've always wanted to know, could I just decide to be interested in something?
Okay.
My timing was impeccable.
In fact, several friends of mine are saying to me Gretchen, you should take credit for this, because the minute you started paying attention, you started rooting for the Knicks.
All of a sudden they have these incredible runs.
I'm like managing to take an interest in the Knicks.
It couldn't be easier, because it's such a great team and they're all such good guys and it's all so exciting and fun and New York City is so enthusiastic and the games are so much fun and the New York City spirit is so high.
Patting myself on the back that I've managed to take an interest in the Knicks.
But listen, you know me.
I mean, you see how out of character this is for me.
Yes.
This is a stretch.
Yes.
This is a stretch goal for me.
Right.
And to be clear, you didn't just like happily go along to the games and not complain.
I mean, you did your homework.
You were...
Learning about the players, thinking about trades, worried about somebody's injury.
I mean, you really went in and learned.
Yeah, when Thibodeau got fired, I was very concerned.
But it's funny, the things that interest me, Jamie's like, that's not really very important.
I did a whole little happier on having your number be zero.
And in a lawyer-like way, I said to Jamie I simply don't understand how zero can be a number for the purposes of a basketball jersey.
And he's like, a lot of people have zero or double zero as their jersey.
I'm like, how can that be?
I did a whole deep dive.
If you want, I'll link to that little happier where I go into...
The mysteries of zero and why people choose zero.
But anyway, so that's not the kind of thing Jamie spends any time thinking about.
But I have gotten much more into it.
And I'm so happy because it's brought me closer to so many people and allowed me to participate joyfully and sincerely on things where I think in the past I would have been like oh, go next and tried to change the subject as soon as somebody started talking about it.
Well Gretchen, can I point out?
I think the Knicks' amazing performance in this finals has made lots of people happier around the country, because just watching something so joyful is happy-inducing.
It's made me happier.
I was completely into it.
And not even because I'm such a Knicks fan or have ever watched basketball, but because I was swept up in the passion of the fans.
I was rooting for the fans as well as the team.
It was just so big.
But so here's something that's very interesting that I've noticed.
I keep thinking if I were writing a PhD paper and I think there actually is a paper that I want to look at which is touching, the practice of touching and how basketball players touch each other
There's this whole thing if you take a free throw and then like, even if you miss your free throw, all your players come and they touch their hands and stuff.
I wish people would do this at a meeting all the time.
If my coworkers were giving me a pat on the back every time, I honestly think I would be doing a better job.
But one of the things that was interesting to me is when they won, how often people said to the players tell me how you feel.
Explain your feelings.
And Jalen Brunson was like, I can't explain my feelings.
And Mike Brown said, who's the coach?
It's surreal.
And then, even when some of the players did say it, you kind of got the feeling that they were saying the thing that you would obviously say, like we've been working so hard and it's a dream come true and we're so glad to do it for the fans.
It's interesting because I think people really are like, let me come into this moment with you.
It is such a moment of happiness and such joy and relief and teamwork and tell me how you feel.
But that's a very hard thing to do, to convey that.
And I think sometimes the players were just rebaffled.
They're like, I just can't.
It doesn't feel real.
Yes.
And I love seeing New Yorkers, who are so diverse and you know from all different walks of life, hugging each other and celebrating together.
And it's just a feel-good moment.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's funny because also New York has all these songs.
You'll have like a giant crowd of people and they're all singing New York, New York.
And then there's a giant crowd of people and they're all singing Empire State of Mind.
And then there's the Go New York Go song that now everybody's like.
What's the origin of the Go New York Go song?
It's just really fun.
Yeah.
So that's making me happier.
And my goodness, Jamie, he is a lifelong Knicks fan.
This has been his dream since he was like four years old.
So he is he's like, we got to do something big to mark the moment.
Like what?
He's like.
I'm thinking about it.
So our whole family is like, OK, what are we going to do to mark the moment?
It's going to be big.
It's going to be epic.
I can't wait to hear about it.
All right, Gretch, coming up, there's something you've been meaning to ask me.
But first, this break.
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Okay Elizabeth, there's something that I've been meaning to ask you, and this goes to your position volunteer or recruited to be a happiness guinea pig alongside me with all of these ideas.
And I just was starting to wonder.
We have halfway day, we have design your summer, we have design your year.
We have the challenges.
We have Demerits, we have Gold Stars, all these things.
You have Happier in Hollywood, too, which is a whole other podcast.
Do you ever get tired of all this planning and talking?
It's just...
Happiness, happiness, happiness.
Yes.
What do you think?
What's your experience?
You know, Gretchen, I don't really get tired of it, but I think I wear it somewhat lightly.
In other words, I don't feel that I have to do every single thing we talk about or make it like if I don't do it, then my life is over.
Like, I feel like I'm not an upholder like you.
Yeah.
So I'm not as rigid, but yet having the plans making the lists, coming up with the themes as an obliger, it really helps me to sort of have that accountability.
But if sometimes I fall down on the accountability, I don't beat myself up, if that makes sense.
I feel like that's the perfect thing, because it's sort of like don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
Because I think if people are too hard on themselves or extremely stressed out, then that can work against your happiness.
But making the plans and aiming.
It's funny because there's a whole line of thinking, and this includes some of the greatest minds in history.
So I don't minimize this.
If you try to be happier, you're going to get in your own way.
And that a happy life is one where people don't think about being happy.
In my mind, people don't hit a target by not aiming at it.
And when people argue this to me, they say things like well, I don't worry about having a happy life.
That's not what's important to me.
I want a life of purpose, connection with other people, vitality, and curiosity.
And I'm like, well, what do you think it would look like to try to have a happier life?
Exactly that way.
I just wondered...
Because it seems to me like you have fun with it.
It's like off-white delight.
Oh, that's fun.
But then you do get stressed out thinking like, oh my goodness.
Well, I mean, I think just certain things hit really hard.
We always do design your summer.
That's a good point.
And, you know, years are different.
Some years it's not important.
Other years it is.
This year, as you mentioned, for design your summer, I just on a whim bought.
Without spending five seconds thinking about it, said to myself this summer I'm going to wear Off-White all summer, between Memorial Day and Labor Day, as often as I can, whenever I'm out, and I'm going to call it my summer of Off-White delight.
And once I said it in my mind and then to you, it became a fact, written in stone, written in the color stone.
Yeah.
And I've really embraced it.
I mean, I've bought these, you know, off-white pieces, putting together different outfits.
I've been taking my picture in the outfits.
Yeah.
I've been logging it in the Happier app, the Design Your Summer section.
So that I have really gotten into.
And it's just like certain things you're really going to get into, whether it's because the way it is calls to me, or the time of life, or whatever.
But here's what I know.
If we didn't do that, like if we didn't do Design Your Summer, in a million years it would never have occurred to me.
Hey, I'm going to try this fun thing of wearing white all summer.
Now, is it important in the world that I wear white all summer?
No, But does it give me a little bit of pep in my step and flair for summer 26?
Yes, it does.
So it's the mindfulness thing, right?
If we're not putting our mind to it, it's just not going to happen, at least for me.
And I am not the person that would create a ritual or come up with a theme or all of that, if I weren't actively doing it because of the podcast.
Well, yeah.
And it's kind of like the thing about the podcast in general or my books where I'm thinking it's not that, it's rocket science.
It's not that somebody couldn't do it on their own.
It just doesn't occur to you.
Right.
You don't think, oh well, I could do X Y, Z.
You miss an opportunity, not because you're not willing to do it, but just because you hadn't thought of it.
And then you just, if you cross something off the list, that's very satisfying.
It keeps something top of mind.
Yeah.
Or like, for instance, Sarah and I, because you and I would come up with themes for the year.
Then Sarah and I had the idea of coming up with a team theme, team symbols and all of this.
We came up this year with being the Killer Bees.
Now that's led to every Friday we have a killer bee work hour on Zoom, where we invite people to work with us.
We both have bee rings that we wear especially, you know, for like big meetings, we'll wear our bee rings regularly, which you know, nobody knows we're doing.
But it's just our little thing.
We had last year a Hive 25 where we got together, you know, for 25 hours and worked every so often.
So it expands into this whole world.
And I just find it It's so fun to be like a part of something like that.
You know, it just makes life richer.
And I don't know, I just love it.
Yeah.
No, I agree.
It just makes life more vivid and more interesting.
Yes, more vivid.
Yeah.
Here's a question.
What is your favorite thing of the year that we do?
Like your word of the year, your list of things, design your summer.
I feel like I'm moving into a phase where I'm really going to try to start embracing.
Design your summer.
I feel like this year is the first year I really embraced it.
You know, I want that to build.
Interesting.
I love the three design your own challenge.
I find the one word theme really creatively interesting.
I really love that.
And the word is always very significant for me, like this year being it being neighbor.
I mean, talk about the Knicks.
That's part of the Knicks.
It's like the neighborhood feeling that the Knicks give the city.
And then door was huge.
Wave was huge.
Salt.
I mean, salt might be my all-time favorite one.
The imagination of it.
I love the list.
I do feel like I get a lot of things done that I really want to do because they're on the list, because I just really want to cross things off the list.
And then I love the challenge.
The challenge is always fun.
We have amazing challenges.
Well, see, again, I wouldn't do any of that if we didn't have a challenge.
Yeah, yeah.
But do you ever get tired of thinking of these things and being in charge of them?
I don't.
I love it.
I find it endlessly fascinating, I have to say.
And I go through the world.
You know what it's like, Liz.
I'm always like, oh, I got to write that down.
Oh, like, oh, hold on to that thought.
We got to do that here, do that here, do that here.
Oh, no.
No, I find it immensely satisfying to have a place to put all these things, because I love Remember the thing with the ladders.
All of a sudden, I was just like, oh, my gosh, ladders.
Ladders are so dangerous.
How do I spread the word?
I just stumbled across it.
So I was so happy to be like, oh, my gosh, this is a big happiness stumbling block.
People...
Beware the ladder.
And so to me, it was immensely satisfying.
So to me, and then with my books and stuff, and then even like Five Things Making Me Happier.
I love having a place for all these ideas to go.
So I don't get tired of it.
Oh, good.
So it's good.
We both enjoy it.
Well, that's good since we're both doing it.
Excellent.
Yes.
Wonderful.
Exactly.
That's a good thing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It would be hard if we didn't.
If we didn't.
Yeah.
That would not be a happy existence.
And now for a spotlight on a tool.
Halfway Day is coming up soon.
Halfway Day is July 2nd.
That makes it a very useful time to review your 26 for 26 list.
We all made these lists at the beginning of the year.
But, you know, sometimes our aims change over the course of the year.
Sometimes you have to adjust them for the summertime because schedules change, energies change, routines change, often in the summer.
I put together a collection of resources about reevaluating your aims and adapting your habits for summer and, you know, figuring out how to keep it going for the second half of the year.
Because, you know, there's plenty of time.
Keep going.
All that can be found at haveyourcast.com slash design your year.
All right, Gretch, coming up, there's something you've been meaning to tell me.
But first, this break.
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I've been trying to say yes more to little adventures, nothing huge, just getting out of the routine and going somewhere different for the day.
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Okay, listen, there was something that you and Sarah were talking about on Happier in Hollywood.
I was absolutely flabbergasted because I think of you as being a true TV person.
I mean, obviously you write for TV and you create shows for TV, but you also love TV.
And you mentioned that you have trouble with the mechanics of watching TV.
And I was so staggered by this but also so relieved, because I'm like why is it so hard sometimes to just watch TV?
Yes, I was talking about how I hadn't been able to turn on any of the TVs in our house for like two years.
So how do you watch TV?
You watch TV.
So I had been watching everything on my iPad.
Or if Adam and I were watching together, you know, then on the TV, but he would have turned it on.
I will say once it's on, I can navigate, you know, I can find Survivor.
Yeah.
It's just getting it on and in the right place.
To do what needs to be done.
And I feel like for years, our TVs have been getting more and more confounding.
And I feel like every time we make a move to make it simple, it gets more confusing.
Like I'll never forget when we got our first universal remote.
That was supposed to be like the thing that changed the game that made
All the things coming together so easy, I never figured out the universal remote.
And we ended up deciding we had a very bad universal remote, but that was the beginning of the end for me.
We have so many different remote controls.
I can't remember what turns on what, what order.
Now I will say Gretchen, because I was talking about this and because it came up, because there was something I really wanted to watch live on TV which, I will admit, was the Summer House reunion.
There was a big scandal going on at Summer House.
Adam...
Figured out how to turn on the TV in the office and taught me to do it, although I will say I have been doing it, but it's still sort of me just pushing buttons to find what I need to find.
So I am turning it on, but then I still have like a random pushing of buttons until I get to where I need to go.
So when Adam does it, is he also kind of doing that, or does he like push push, push and it comes on easily?
So certain TVs, he knows confidently how to get them on.
But others, he has to do a little experimentation if it's not one he uses very often.
Yeah.
Okay.
Here's a note to all of you who are good at this kind of thing, which is, if you're good at this kind of thing and somebody says to you, please show me how to do it.
It is very nice when they will show you how to do it.
And they tell you in a way so that you can learn.
Because in my household, people just rip it out of my hands and are just like, oh, do it.
But I want to learn how to do it.
But I want you to tell me how to do it.
But then they often are like, well, I don't even know.
I just push a bunch of buttons and it comes on.
Yes.
But you seem to know how to push those buttons.
It's like muscle memory.
It's muscle memory.
It's almost like typing.
Like if somebody said how do you type the word muscle bunny?
I would have to be like okay, will you use your index finger?
And like, i don't know, but people will continue to pester you if you do not teach a man to fish, or something like teach a person to use the remote control and then they won't badger you to help them use the remote control.
Well Gretch, can I give you a gold star?
Why?
Because at your house in the country you have a big TV, very complicated and you wrote out instructions for guests.
Very specific, very precise to follow, to turn on the TV and find what you want to find.
And Adam and I followed the instructions and found what we wanted to find.
And it was so great.
Can I just say when you did that?
I was astonished.
I really, truly didn't believe that that would actually work.
I don't know why I wrote out the directions if I didn't think that they would actually work if somebody followed the directions.
I was like, how did you turn on the TV?
And he said, we just follow the directions.
I couldn't believe it.
I was like, wow, that's impressive.
Yeah, just following the direction sometimes feels very hard.
So anyway, I was very encouraged by that because I was like, what's my problem?
Like everybody else knows how to do this.
Our mother is great with TV.
She's a button pusher like all the rest of them.
She knows how to do it.
Well, and Sarah keeps telling me that if you just get a Roku TV it's as easy as any, like old school TV.
But I am just not willing to get a new TV.
I don't want to get a new TV.
So here's my ignorance.
If you get a Roku TV, does that mean literally it is the screen or it's a thing that is part of the TV that goes with the screen?
Or is it a platform?
I don't know.
I don't know.
Next time I'm at Sarah's, I'll take a look.
But again, I don't want to get a new TV.
I resent that you keep having to get new TVs with this changing of the remote system.
So I don't know.
And getting a new TV is so elaborate now.
It used to be you just came in a box and you plugged it in your wall.
Now it's a whole to-do thing.
But it's funny Gretchen, because I always am saying to Jack why are you watching shows on your phone?
How can you watch Game of Thrones on your phone?
And then here I am watching on my iPad, which isn't that different.
I mean, yes, it's bigger, but it's not that big.
Oh, that's so funny.
I should let Jack do what he wants.
Interesting.
Okay well anyway, it made me feel better and reassured that you also have trouble.
The sheer mechanics of watching TV.
Yes.
All right, Gretchen, what is our quote this week?
Well, this comes from Virginia Woolf's Diaries, because one of the things I'm doing to design my summer is I'm reading Virginia Woolf's Diaries.
She wrote, Glass is the best of all decorations, holding the light and changing it.
So, Elizabeth, are you feeling happier?
Yes, I am feeling happier.
Thank you to Chuck.
Bye, Gretch.
Bye, Elizabeth.
The best time to start a happiness project is 20 years ago.
The second best time is now.
Elizabeth, I wonder if part of the reason that I haven't started watching girls yet is because I'm just like gosh, I'm going to have to turn on the TV.
Because Jamie doesn't want to watch it with me, so it's something that I need to watch by myself.
And I'm like, I can turn on the TV.
Yes.
I just have to, you know, push around until I get it.
It's just that little bit of friction, I think.
Yes.
Or that they were, it signs you out and then you have to sign in again every so often.
Yes.
Just that little bit of friction.
Yep.
