Welcome back to Roundtable.
I'm Niu Henglin, joined by Steve and Yishan.
Coming up soon.
Over the past decade, the rise of pet-friendly cafes, restaurants and shopping malls has reflected a broader shift in urban culture.
Pets are no longer just companions at home.
They are part of people's social lives as well.
But recently some businesses have begun reversing course, tightening rules or removing pet-friendly labels altogether.
What happened?
Let's find out.
And now...
Pets are companions, emotional support, sometimes even family members.
So it's easy to understand why people want to bring them along to cafes, restaurants, or shopping malls. but not everyone shares that enthusiasm and when these different expectations collide businesses suddenly find themselves in the middle of a surprisingly complicated debate So is pet-friendly a sustainable model for public spaces or a well-meaning idea that's harder to implement than expected?
And what would it take to make it truly work for everyone?
Yeah, this is a tricky one because you have three... sides to this story, if you will.
You've got the pet owner side, you've got the business side, and then you've got the anti-pet?
I don't want to say anti-pet.
It sounds weird, but I know exactly what you mean.
For example, if I'm allergic.
Yeah, it means the people who do not want pets in restaurants or shopping malls and things like that.
Whatever the reason.
Yeah, for whatever their reason.
So this has been kind of a hot issue in China as of late because shopping malls there were shopping malls that used to be pet friendly.
They had pet friendly policies in place and customers of those shopping malls would bring their pets to and hang out at the mall with them.
Now some of those shopping malls have reversed their policies and now some of those customers who used to come to the mall with their pet they've been turned away at the door.
Sorry, you can't come in anymore.
Those people have gone to social media to vent their frustration.
But it's not just shopping malls.
It's restaurants as well.
They're having a change of heart too.
There's an example of a hot pot spot in Suzhou.
They launched a cute pet dining concept...
But they got complaint after complaint after complaint, complaint, complaint, complaint, complaint.
And they had no choice but to announce a temporary suspension of that.
To be honest, from an outsider's point of view, I think it's easy, or it's not that hard, to imagine how come this is happening.
You have a new policy, you're trying to meet the needs of a certain group of consumers and then you find that perhaps doing so is offending or a little bit annoying to other, to people who do not belong to that group of consumers that you're trying to please.
So what is happening to the other part of the consumers?
Why are they opposing the idea to the extent that businesses have to act on it?
Well, there's really a mix of agree to disagree here, right?
Because pet owners they genuinely feel that, since the pets are now considered part of the family, some even consider them as their kids.
So taking them out is just a normal action and that should be embraced regularly by a more opened up society, as we're growing into today.
So they argue that as long as the animal is well managed, as in they're leashed, they're cleaned up after, and that they keep it from disturbing other people in the same space, they should have the right to enter public spaces.
But then there's the non-pet owners. who seem to fall into two camps.
There are the ones that shows understanding and don't mind, as long as the pet owners can keep a good control of their pets.
And then, of course, there are those who out of their own reasons do not want pets to be around.
Yeah, but the pet okay.
So amongst the group that doesn't want the pets in the malls or the restaurants, they have their reasons for it, because a lot of people don't follow the rules.
They don't keep their pet on a leash, for example, if it's a dog.
They don't keep control of their animals in public spaces.
And this is part of the problem, and this part of the complaint too, is that yeah, you can bring your dog into a mall.
Many people might not have a problem with that.
But don't bring your dog into a mall.
Then take them off the leash and let them run around everywhere, right?
And a muzzle as well.
A muzzle is the thing that goes in the front of a dog's mouth.
It goes on their mouth to make sure that they can't bite.
Right.
Even if the dog doesn't bite, it just helps put other people at ease.
Some people are really, really afraid of dogs, no matter big or small.
Some people don't follow that rule.
Those are a couple of the reasons why the non-pet enthusiasts don't want them in restaurants or in shopping malls.
Okay.
So if I'm playing the devil's advocate, when you decide that you're going to a pet-friendly mall or restaurant or cafe, don't you already know what you might be facing?
That's a fair argument, yeah.
And I agree with you.
Meaning if you see pet friendly on the cafe window or restaurant or shopping mall, then you say, oh OK, I guess I'll choose a different place.
But I don't know if it's just black and white like that, because a cafe is a cafe, but a shopping mall is a shopping mall.
And it's a whole lot easier to find a cafe next to another cafe than it is to find a shopping mall next to another shopping mall. right so i don't it's it's it's not apples to apples here not really a choice that that i'm having but a reality that i have to face the way i take it is that it's just one extra step of making this room better for everybody in it especially for pet owners Now, this is a delicate window that's freshly opened not too long ago.
Pets going on aircrafts, for example, pets going on high-speed trains.
There are services like that opening up all across this country.
But when it's time for pet owners to actually utilize it, isn't it...
Well, I'm a pet owner myself, but I'm really feeling for those people who's really having complaints over this.
That isn't it our responsibility somehow that we be grateful for the fact that we are offered this environment that's tolerating.
That's a hard word, but yeah, that's embracing this idea of pets and human being together.
But in the meantime also yeah, like there are people out there who is really not okay with, for example, dogs.
Or bigger pets?
Or like dogs without the muzzle you mentioned, Steve?
Like a horse, you mean?
Could be.
Horse-friendly mall.
Wow, I would visit that mall.
I should say that's a joke, in case people are like oh, I didn't know they had horse-friendly malls in China.
You don't know if there are horse-friendly malls, but in some malls because they have some pet shops or the kind of shops that allow you to have close-up engagement and play around with different pets.
With capybara and alpacas.
Yeah, alpaca walking in malls sometimes.
It is awesome.
You wouldn't get a complaint from me about that.
No.
It's a little bit tricky.
Sorry to interrupt as well.
One last point on the shopping malls.
It's tricky too, because a mall might be pet friendly, but a store within that mall might not be pet friendly.
So you could bring your animal into the mall, but then you can't bring them into every shop that's in the mall.
So it's just kind of a jumbled mix of different opinions from lots of different people.
Yeah, it's really hard to unify standards for all the shops and restaurants inside one single mall.
And there lies the inconsistent and also vague standards of Just how open up, or rather how much freedom, we are allowing here.
Yes, that's why, before many of the businesses decided to just take away their pet friendly sign and decide that no, your pet is no longer welcomed, other kinds of complaints or other kinds of quote-unquote tips have happened in the pet owner world.
They on social media.
They talk to each other, they share experience of which pet friendly venue is really pet friendly and what are some hidden rules that they're following so that they can make sure that Their pet friend or pet family member is welcomed.
And some people even say that some malls say they are pet friendly but they are not pet on the floor friendly.
They're pet in your arms friendly or pet all the time in the bag friendly.
See, and sometimes they say when they say it's pet friendly, it means smaller pets are friendly, the bigger ones, those that are higher or taller than 35 um kilo of.
Excuse me, Then 35 centimeters are welcome.
Others really, I don't think horses are allowed in those kind of malls.
And, in some dining areas, their experience or the hidden rule that they found out is that yes, you can go into the restaurants and you can get food.
You can bring your pet along, but the pet is only allowed to stay in the little bag.
They're not allowed to stay on the table, which kind of makes sense.
Yeah, I totally understand.
And they cannot go to other consumers for sure.
Let me tell you what's happening in Korea right now.
This is really interesting because here we're getting a mixed bag of what's going on with businesses and shopping malls.
There's a huge, huge pet industry here and the pet market is growing in China.
But still, it's kind of a gray area of like, well, what do we do with pets in public spaces?
Yes or no?
In Korea, they just announced it early March.
The Ministry of Food and Drug Safety said that it had prepared updated operating guidelines for restaurants that allow pets, and one of the key revisions expands how restaurants can verify A pet's vaccination status.
So Korea, too, is a huge pet market.
It feels like everybody has a dog or a cat.
And you'll see it all the time.
People out on the streets, going for a walk in cafes.
They treat them like they're family members, as all dog and cat owners do.
But this was really tricky because when the government first in Korea, when they first put out the measure, they said that it was the responsibility of the business owner to prove that the cat or dog or whatever animal maybe it was just cats and dogs actually
They had to prove that they were vaccinated, okay, to gain entry into the restaurant.
And that was to put at ease the concerns of other customers.
Fair enough.
Right, fair enough.
But from the business owner's point of view, they were like, Wait, I have to prove?
Which means I would have to ask my consumers to prove.
Right.
So wait, how do I do that?
You know, my cafe is busy.
I'm busy making coffees and preparing my snacks or whatever.
And then a customer comes in with a dog and I have to go over there and say, oh sorry, can you prove the vaccination please, of this vaccine.
So it just became they put out new measures to make it a lot easier.
But it's still from the business owner's point of view.
I read one business owner saying it's too complicated.
It's too complicated.
I would love to welcome all cat and dog owners in, but it's just too much trouble for me.
So I don't think I'm going to go through with that.
And that is the mentality of some business owners that are opening or closing their doors to pet owners.
But we do also have some other business owners trying to find a balance, trying to do something in this relatively complicated issue which, to be honest, there's no definitely right side or definitely wrong side.
Well, one of the things that they're doing is trying to find a nice balance.
And the strategy there is to target customers who can accept a pet presence within the business.
Yeah, only come in if you're okay with dogs.
Yeah, and that's happening here in Beijing in one of the quote-unquote downtown areas, Chaoyang.
So to avoid any potential accidents caused by excitement, if you will, the owner had already put a diaper on the dog heading into this business in Chaoyang before arriving.
And then inside the restaurant.
Both indoor and outdoor areas were covered with soft artificial grass.
And that gives the dogs plenty of room to run and play.
I've seen that just down the street from where our studios are as well.
So I guess the example there is that they're kind of trying to walk a line.
To make sure that the non-pet owners are happy with the pet owners and nobody's uncomfortable.
Or maybe they're trying to.
Instead of saying hey, we have this characteristic of tolerating pet owners, they are almost marketing their pet um business as a there are a lot of pads here, and if you also like pad but you don't have one, come and join the club.
Yeah, and sometimes they even put it one step further.
That is, to just put up a space just for dogs to hang out and also like, or pet owners to bring their pets and only hang out in this segment or in this section, within their restaurant or within the mall, And then there are spaces left for people who doesn't want any engagement with other people's pets.
And that seems completely reasonable to me.
And I want to maybe correct myself because I said the pet people and the non-pet people.
But actually I don't think that's fair because I had a dog in Korea for 16 years, my little mini dachshund.
And I was very aware that a public space like a restaurant is a restaurant and a restaurant is for eating.
And dogs, as clean as they can be, they still shed.
And that means hair can get everywhere.
And dogs, you know, they have their paws up on the table.
And I don't know.
You know, it's just like I get it.
I'm a dog owner.
I'm a dog lover.
But I wouldn't even think to bring my dog to a restaurant.
It wouldn't even occur to me.
But there are people who go everywhere with their dog.
And I'm not insulting them at all.
It's like their best, best, best friend in the world.
I saw a blog post because I was curious if this was an issue in America right now as well.
And it is.
And it's just as debatable in America too.
And there was a guy that said he was in a cafe.
He was there for a coffee and a sandwich.
And the cafe was relatively empty at the time.
And a lady came in with her big dog, huge dog.
And there was no dog sign at the front of the store.
But she came in anyway and she ordered.
And then she came over and sat down directly next to him and he said I'm a dog.
This is what he said in his post.
I'm a dog owner.
I love dogs.
Her dog was amazing.
I would like to spend a little time.
The only thing I requested her to do was move to a different table, perhaps on the other side of the restaurant or the cafe, because i was eating.
That's all i said to her.
She got very upset, she got very defensive, she started using bad language.
The cafe owner came over and said you have to leave, i'm sorry, and she started using more bad language and he was like In his post.
He said am I the bad guy here?
I felt a little... guilty afterwards.
But then the comments underneath were saying, no, you shouldn't feel guilty at all.
First of all, she broke a rule by entering the cafe with the animal in the first place.
Right.
She shouldn't have done that.
And to ask her to move is a very reasonable thing to do.
And a reasonable, logical person would have said, oh, I'm sorry.
Yeah, of course.
So in my opinion, probably the problem here is that we do not have enough experience to have the pet people and the at that moment do not want the pet to be near around, kind of people.
That's a good way to put it.
The at that moment don't want the pet around people.
Yeah, that's right.
Bad people to come along, to hang out enough to know the boundaries and to know what is happening and what can we do to behave ourselves and to try to make our pet behave.
Having more of those experiences probably would be a good way or a path to find out the better solution.
So my suggestion here is to have more places trying out the pet-friendly solutions method or pet friendly model, no matter if you're saying oh, we can try pet friendly in different separate areas or different time, or maybe this venue can be pet friendly, but that one really close to it is not.
Yeah, I get what you mean.
I was reading about I was reading I forget the the media outlet.
It was from China.
And one business owner was talking about what you just said.
You know, maybe having separate areas, one area for pets and one area for no pets.
Or separate time slots.
Right.
But what this owner said, and I think this is a great point the space that they have for these cafes, or even for a restaurant, is often limited.
And for them to redesign the space into a way that was like 50 or 30 for pets and 70 non-pet space.
It's just too complicated.
And then they'd need new furniture.
They'd need to invest money to do that.
And that takes time and effort.
And it's just like, is it really worth it or is it not?
But that's the next big question. is it worth it for these business owners or not?
Because a lot of times, I don't have statistics, but a lot of times pet owners...
They want to spend their money too.
And a lot of times you'll have a married couple that maybe doesn't have kids, but they have a couple of dogs.
There's a lot of potential money there for businesses to be made.
So to alienate that customer base and say, nope, you can't spend your money at my business.
Sorry, you're a dog owner.
That's a dangerous thing to say too.
So that's why I said this is a really tricky balancing act for business owners here.
They want to try to keep everybody out.
Sorry to interrupt.
What I'm seeing that's really successful here in China, that some cafes the one that's on my mind right now are doing is to from time to time host events that just theme one breed of dog and maybe next week is another breed.
And then another week, maybe it's for cats and maybe another week, maybe it's for hamsters.
So what they're doing is use their backyard. as the event place.
So in the cafe people may sit down, may pass by, but it's mainly the backyard for the pets to hang out and for pet owners to talk about stuff and catch up.
And sometimes they even hold little competitions for the dogs to run around and stuff like that.
So it's one way of opening up and allowing more pet owners to come.
It's another way of how they're marketing their brand and how they are adapting into this.
Really, I would say, very much cherished chance that pets are allowed in venues such as cafes nowadays.
They have hamster night, too.
I'm kind of just listing up the pets that I know that are very popular in China.
And that is a good example, a successful example from one business.
The business can try different methods.
But if we expand the issue into the entire society because, like Steve mentioned, with more and more people having pets, maybe more and more people would want to bring their pets to public spaces.
How to find a right balance to allow some of the public areas, including parks, including public, even public transportation, public library, to be a good enough environment that can make sure that the coexistence of pet, pet owners, non-pet people, people love pets but do not pass to be around at that moment, people all together yeah, is the issue that no longer only should be considered by business owners, but city planners as well.
Yeah.
Yes.
Well, I don't know.
I don't think so.
I don't think this should be a city planner thing.
I think this is a business owner thing.
You make your own decision on what you want to do.
How about public parks?
Should public parks be open to pets?
If it's a dog park, silenced again.
Oh my goodness, that's a good idea and also the reason i say this.
Sorry to interrupt final point very quickly.
I think dog owners can be arrogant sometimes and they think why can't i go everywhere i want with my dog and everybody will love my dog?
No, they don't.
I'll put it like this imagine you had a pet python And you loved that snake.
But you go into a cafe and you would really understand.
Oh yeah, right.
Some people just don't love snakes and it makes them really uncomfortable.
Some people feel that way about dogs too.
Some people feel that way about cats too.
And you have to respect their space.
And you have to respect their opinion.
And that's why I think it's not only a business owner's thing.
It's also a city planner thing.
And it's also, more importantly, an individual thing.
You would know what to do when you're around people who do not like your pet.
Not the way you do, at least.
And that brings us to the end of today's roundtable.
Let us know what do you think.
I'm Niu Honglin with Steve and Yishan.
We'll see you next time.
