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Hi, everybody.
Robin here, and I am so excited to be back with y'all for another episode of Dear Headspace.
Now, today I am joined by Dora and, in the spirit of National Sleep Awareness Week, we got questions for you that are all related in some way to sleep.
So we'll be talking about restless leg syndrome.
We'll also be talking about binging on YouTube or other comedies before you're trying to sleep.
And we have a question about when your neighbors are making noise and keeping you up at night.
I am exhausted just thinking about that loud neighbor.
All right, so let's get to it.
Let's see if we can offer some solutions to these folks.
Here we go.
Have you ever wished you had a wise meditation teacher on speed dial?
Someone you can call after a long day, someone you could lean on for their advice, someone to listen and help you to see things differently.
Welcome to Dear Headspace, a podcast where I sit with a meditation teacher and we answer your questions.
All right, Dora, you're looking fabulous.
You're looking well rested, which is good since we're going to be talking about sleep.
Oh, yeah, I did get a nice eight hours of sleep last night.
So thank you.
Is that your traditional is eight hours?
How are you on the sleep?
Eight to nine hours.
I sleep well.
I sleep good and I sleep a lot.
Some would call it escapism, but I just need my rest.
Listen, we're doing the best we can.
All right.
And listen, today we've got a tired group of callers, so I think we better get right to it.
All right.
Here is our first question from Mayan.
Hello, this is Mayan from India.
My question is that whenever I'm tired, I feel a lot of urge, a lot of craving to binge on comedy videos, comedy movies.
And whenever I do that, what happens to me that I feel more drained out.
I do not feel relaxed.
I do not feel fresh and I mess up with my sleep.
So my question is that can you please suggest me some good wind down routines?
When I've had a very long, hard day at work and i'm very tired and i feel like doing nothing, what?
What one wind down routines can i follow that will help me go to sleep early and help me feel fresh the next morning?
So that's what i wanted to ask.
Thanks a lot, Mayan.
This question is real.
I mean, Dora, I want to hear if you're better than me.
I already know you are.
But like I can open up the Instagram reels or TikTok or YouTube shorts and I can just scroll and scroll and then turn around and 90 minutes went by.
And I'm like, what happened to my life?
And that's not.
Yeah, not at all.
I have been, since I was very young, a person of structure and routine.
I remember when I was in the ninth grade and my mom had traveled and I had friends over before we went to a party.
And I'll never forget this.
But my friends made so much fun of me because I had a calendar on my wall.
And it was like 6am, wake up.
605, brush teeth 610, wash face, you know, like breaking down my morning and my night routines.
And that's just how I've always lived.
And I think that When it comes to sleep, having routine is so, so important.
It's critical.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And the interesting thing is that we all have a routine, whether we know it or not.
So your routine, what it sounds like is before bed, you scroll on your phone.
Yeah.
And so it just takes a little bit more intention of like, how do I want to feel in the morning?
Okay, I want to feel refreshed.
So what can I do the night before to feel that way?
And I'm big on creating the environment for sleep to happen.
So in my bedroom, it's like strictly for sleep.
And it's always been that way.
My phone is charging in my kitchen.
I don't have any electronics in there.
You know, I have my diffuser with lavender oil, no TV, no screens, red light.
Like I have that environment.
You have built it.
Yeah, because I recognize if I don't sleep, I'm not a nice person.
So yeah, it's taken a while for me to like hone in on what works best for me.
But I would say creating structure and a routine around your sleep is so important.
And we just launched the sleep program on the Headspace app and I learned a lot about sleep there.
And one of the things that the doctor researcher had shared Dr Eric Prather, I believe his last name is but one of the most helpful things we can do, which isn't a big lift, is waking up and sleeping at the same time every night.
Yes.
And that can really help.
Yeah.
Which I had no idea that was a thing.
Yeah.
Oh yeah, for sure.
I also want to point out that creating again that environment of letting your body know like hey, we are about to wind down.
What can you do maybe an hour or two before bed where you're preparing your mind and body to rest.
So Sleepcast are a really great way to rest if you do need an audio book to listen to like a nice adult bedtime story.
But I think finding like two or three things that are practical to do and starting there.
Getting better sleep is a lifestyle change.
It's not just a, you know, one thing and then it's going to work out.
It's like you have to change your entire life.
Like there's things I miss out on. on the weekend because I'm like, I'd rather sleep.
Yeah.
I don't want to be out till 4 a.m.
Like I'm going to sleep.
Right.
And, you know, some people may not have an understanding of that.
There may not be as much compassion.
But again, it's like I'm making certain lifestyle choices in order to protect my sleep, because I know how valuable it is for me as an individual.
Well, and Mayan is sort of calling himself out there.
He knows what he's doing isn't best thing for him.
And it doesn't mean you have to give up your comedy shorts that maybe help you unwind and stuff, but it does mean maybe there's a limit that you say I don't do past this amount of time.
Or you know, like I talked about this on a previous episode, like when you have a baby, they tell you to start giving them cues in the house, to to bring the lights down, to do all these different things, so that they start to understand.
It's time to go to sleep.
I'm pretty sure my parent in the 70s did not do that for me.
So I had to teach myself that.
But you can bring the lights down if you have all overhead lights.
Maybe you turn off the overhead lights and you just have a side lamp on.
And like those kinds of things that just your body starts to know like oh, it's the end of of this one thing.
And now moving into this.
Yeah, and I love what you said about the awareness piece.
Yes, there was a lot of awareness in that question.
And I think it's also important to know that, Similar when you force yourself to meditate, you can't force or shame yourself to sleep.
That's just going to add more tension, right?
More tension and like more rumination or spiraling than is going to cause more ease and peace before you go to bed.
So self-compassion, right?
If you are embarking on this journey of wanting to get a better night's rest, like give yourself grace because again, it's a really big shift.
Even sleeping an hour earlier is is like a really big difference.
So I would say, noticing as Mayim did about, you know I'm watching a lot of shows before bed and I'm binge watching movies.
And in those moments that you notice that, how are you meeting yourself there?
Because that is, it could be an invitation for compassion or it could be an invitation for shame.
So seeing if you can really treat yourself as a friend.
And I love that.
I love the vision of babying yourself before bed, setting up your home, maybe getting some hot tea instead of hot milk.
Whatever you need to do to create that environment.
Even looking at your day, because I think that also contributes to your sleep.
Do you drink caffeine at 5 p.m.?
Do you exercise?
Exercise has been linked to getting a better night's rest.
What does your day look like?
Are you eating right before bed?
I know that's also a really big thing.
I have an Oura Ring.
I've had it for the past five years and it tracks your sleep cycle.
And I got it because I dream a lot and very vividly and intensely.
And so I wanted to know, how much REM sleep am I getting?
And I noticed that when I was eating right before bed, my REM sleep would decrease significantly.
Really?
That's so interesting.
Yeah.
And then when I wasn't eating right before bed, my REM sleep was like so, so, so, so, so high.
So yeah, noticing the things that you do throughout the day that also interrupt your sleep, because it's all interconnected.
Yeah.
Even just like the quality of the things that you're watching, like what happens when you watch like a calming nature video versus like I don't know, Mad Max, or like an action-packed video, and see if that has any impact on the way that you're sleeping as well.
Little small things.
Like I'm not going to say like stop watching TV and meditate before bed.
Like do things that are feasible for you in this moment and work your way towards those things.
Yeah.
All right.
Well, thank you for your question and sleep well, Mayan.
Yeah, sweet dreams.
All right.
Let's take our next question from Edie.
Hi, this is Edie calling from New Hampshire.
I love Headspace.
I've been meditating now for over two months to help with sleep.
It's been very beneficial.
My issue is I live in a rural area.
There are people that target practice, shoot guns.
It's annoying because it's usually on a Sunday afternoon or On the weekends and it's on a beautiful day.
It's kind of disconcerting because it's echoing.
But yesterday, new neighbors that moved in, I can't see their house.
I was working in the garden and suddenly I heard rapid firing and I wasn't able to sleep.
I woke up with it this morning.
Thank you.
I hope you can help.
Oh, thank you for that question, Edie.
I mean, there's a lot in there.
There really is.
It's like we're talking about sleep, but we're also talking about communication with neighbors.
I mean there's just like.
I mean I think for me that's probably where I would start is on the communication piece.
Like I live in an apartment, but I do think it's similar.
It's.
It can be dicey, but can there be kind of like Hey, our houses are.
I know they're not on top of each other, but it's the sound echoes.
That's a, that's a loud sound and it can be disruptive.
Yeah.
I mean, right now I'm actually struggling with my neighbor that lives underneath me.
At first he was mad at me because I make so much noise, but I, I don't.
I know myself.
I'm not making noise at all.
I feel like you levitate when you walk.
I can't even imagine you touching your feet touching the ground.
Well, they are, but I'm not heavy footed.
And he would come up to my apartment and tell me to be quiet during the day.
And I was like, this is like apartment living.
Even if you could hear me, you're not, we're all in this together type of thing.
And there's quiet hours.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it took me a few months to even tell my landlord, like, hey, you know, I live by myself.
There's this guy that comes up and tells me to be quiet.
And I don't want this to make things awkward because it potentially will.
But I just wanted to let you know for like a thing of safety, you know.
And so she called him and she told him like, hey, it's apartment living.
She can hear you as well.
And just be mindful of that.
And this guy, his bedroom is right underneath mine.
So he bangs on the wall.
He'll be like crying or like laughing hysterically.
I go to bed at like 9 p.m. every night and like from 8 to like 10 p.m.
I can hear him.
And it's been a really big practice for me of compassion.
Like I've never had to practice so much in my life.
Until now where I'm like sending him loving kindness.
I'm like trying to remember.
This is a human being just like me, you know, like all these different things that we do as teachers and that we train in.
And still, I'm just like this.
I'm like, this is wild.
Yeah.
I mean, sometimes like I live on a very, very busy road in Brooklyn.
And you know in the summer if the windows are open it's so loud or there'll be.
You know there's a museum nearby that has like a free night that's very loud, or horns, or you know.
It's just and I've had to make exceptions or adjustments to what I have to do.
You know I like that you're first starting with loving kindness as a practice.
But I've had to add in things like I.
I mean, if I don't even know what I look like when I go to bed Dora, like I got.
Like I got like I got like wax earplugs.
I have like one of those like sleep masks with the headphones in the side.
Like I just it's not cute.
Like, let me just say that.
So it's like sometimes there's the world that you can control, like calling the police and being like should someone be firing an AK-47 in the woods at 10 o'clock at night?
No.
But then sometimes there's like, OK, I can't control that.
But what can I change and do so that I don't?
I will go down the rabbit hole of the injustice of it all.
And that's I'm not sleeping then.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Not at all.
Yeah.
I think that's really important to remember.
Like, what can you control?
And Eve actually sent me an Amazon link to those like round earplugs to use.
But I like to know what's going on in my environment.
So I actually don't like sleeping with earplugs.
But yeah, setting up your room or setting up your home in a way where you can control your environment.
Yeah, a white noise machine or white noise on your phone.
Those kinds of things are helpful.
But there's something about that staccato that you're going to be hearing in the middle of the night that disrupts you.
And that can get your heart racing and stuff.
So what do you as a meditation teacher and as a former nurse?
What are your thoughts on?
What can you do when you are thrown out of bed?
You're woken up and you need to calm yourself down.
Because I've tried like breathing in those moments and I don't find it to help me.
I don't know.
This was last year.
I'm like, what is time?
But last year I took a neuroscience of sound program and I was learning how to like therapeutically play, like singing bowls and swinging chimes, and I learned a lot about sound and the nervous system and how sound has such a great impact on our nervous systems.
And from an evolutionary standpoint.
One of the ways that we are able to detect if we are safe or in danger is through sound.
And so when we hear things like alarms or baby crying or gunshots, that sends us into fight or flight and that system of the body is activated.
And so I learned how to play the singing bowls.
But finding things to then soothe your nervous system in those moments is really, really helpful.
So I like soothing touch, where I'll just like give myself a hug and rub my arms, if I do wake up in the middle of the night and my neighbor is banging on the walls.
You know, loving kindness, compassion practices.
Humming is a really great way to soothe your nervous system.
So taking a deep breath.
And on the exhale, making a hum sound.
And that activates the vagus nerve, which is in charge of that rest and digest part of the body.
Oh, I love that.
Yeah, it's one of my favorite things to do is just to hum.
And even from like an ancestral point of view, like humming has been such a beautiful way to make people feel safe.
So yeah, tending to your nervous system.
So and I like what you had said with the first question about I know it may be hard, but getting out of bed and trying to find something to do whether it's drinking a cup of tea or whatever your jam is to feel safe and to feel at home in your body, I think would be really helpful as well.
One of the underlying things in this question for me that comes up.
My initial instinct is to be like but I'm not the one who's doing it.
You are the one.
And I had this very good friend of mine once we were at this restaurant and I was sitting and this guy just kept like hitting me with his chair.
And I kept, I was like giving him the three quarter turn.
I kept looking and I kept, I was more aggressively looking.
And then my friend just reached over and grabbed my hand and said honey, move the chair, move your chair.
And I didn't want to move the chair because I was not doing anything wrong.
But then who's living with it?
That guy, probably four margaritas in, doesn't even understand what he's doing.
And I'm the one who's carrying this whole burden.
So it's like I know that some of the things we're suggesting are putting some of the onus back on you, Edie.
Like, shoot, I shouldn't have to rearrange my house.
He should stop shooting an AK-47.
Yeah, that's probably true.
But we should also not have people starving or like we live in a world where there are things that are happening that we have to sometimes work around.
So maybe that is helpful to approach it from.
Just where you started, Dora, the loving kindness place.
Like that's such a, like such a wonderful thought.
Yeah.
I mean in the reframe of.
That is like.
I find that so empowering to know that I actually have a choice in all of this.
Like it's not the end all be all.
Because I have decided to move my room from where it is into my second bedroom, because I'm fortunate enough to have one.
Yeah.
Again, I'm like, I'm not.
There's things, there's possibilities that exist in this moment that I can do.
And I can make a choice to wear the earplugs or to send loving kindness, or.
But when we are in those moments of high stress, it's hard to see.
You know, it's really easy to get stuck there.
And I love that you said like someone had to remind you, because when you're really in it you're not able to see those possibilities anymore.
Like there was the possibility and it was so far away that I was not ever seeing it in this lifetime.
That's how mad I was.
I had wound myself up so high.
Yeah.
And imagine there's so many other things that we approach in that same way.
You know, like there's so many other things in our lives that are like.
There's that thing that's rubbing up against us.
And it's like we actually have choice here and we're being invited to choose to respond differently, but also choose to get free in that moment.
I think that's so liberating.
Like oh, all I have to do is move my chair, or all I have to do is move my bedroom or put earplugs in or listen to white noise.
Like I'm not held captive to this one scenario, one situation.
I can actually do something about it.
Yeah, that's so powerful.
That is so powerful.
And Edie, we hope this helps you sleep and we hope you get a good night's sleep the whole night.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Sweet dreams.
Everybody's sweet dreams.
I'm like, oh, it's hard.
All right.
We'll be right back.
OK, let's listen to our last question from Anya.
Hello.
Hello.
It's Anna from Germany.
I have problems of meditating because of my restless legs.
The most disturbing condition of restless legs is just before sleep or during sleep.
So sometimes I can wake up at night and I feel my restless legs and very difficult to fall asleep.
And in this situation, can't help me to fall asleep again because of restless legs.
I don't know how to handle it.
Could you please maybe give some suggestions for that?
Thanks.
Well, thank you so much for this question, Anya.
And I'm going to tell you Dora, and anyone who's listening I too suffer a little from the restless leg syndrome.
And I do feel like it's one of those syndromes that people are like, is that real?
And it really kind of is.
It's like, it's just, I call it twitchy feet.
And it's just, I get it especially before sleep.
And that can be the worst because it's just like, it'll get worse.
If I, if I lean in in any way, if I start to panic about oh my God, here it comes, it just gets worse.
And then I could definitely really struggle like being able to sleep.
And then Anya's also talking about it sitting, and which that'll come up for me sometimes on airplanes.
It's like a claustrophobic feeling and I start to feel the twitch come on.
So I do also think it's connected to hormones, because I could track it through my cycle and pregnancy.
And when I started menopause, it got significantly worse.
So I don't know if that's something to maybe start with is to look some points Like cause there's the cause of it and then there's what you do with it or about it.
Yeah.
I think it's when I was working in the hospital, I was working in addiction.
So people that were obviously in withdrawal would have it, but it's also tied to the high anxiety and stress could even be linked to deficiencies in the body.
But I like what you said about.
I don't like that you experienced this, but you mentioned the panicking that happens when you notice it.
And I think this is a point where we can turn this into a practice, right?
So what if instead, we were able to look at our relationship to that and even make the restless leg a part of our practice, by just noticing those sensations, instead of being like I don't want this thing to happen or get it away or trying to avoid it?
Yeah.
What if we just brought our full attention and awareness and, like just rode the wave of that sensation in the body of it happening?
What would happen then?
Okay.
So this is Robin, who's not a great meditator, who's coming at you with this.
Okay.
When I put my attention on it, I find that that's when it gets worse.
That's when it's like a full blown thing comes on.
But then I'm definitely clenching and panicking my way through it.
So you're saying let go.
Let go of that.
Even when you notice it.
I don't want to assume, but you're probably looking at it based on a point of judgment.
Yeah, not probably.
Definitely.
Yeah.
I'm like, I hate this.
Here it comes.
I'm not going to sleep.
How can we just be curious and compassionate knowing that this is going to happen?
This is something that you've tracked on your phone.
You know it may show up when you're sitting, when you're meditating.
So you know it's going to happen, right?
But how can we then meet it with a sense of curiosity and compassion, rather than why is this thing here?
I hate when this happens.
And all the different stories that we add to it that probably makes it worse.
But just noticing it, as if you were, I don't know, noticing a friend or appreciating something in nature and cultivating that same sense of presence to it as well.
I'm going to probably need you to say about seven hours more around that.
Because I, just because I, just I like.
It's so clear what you're saying.
But I also have this feeling of like.
But how?
That's a practice, right?
You can read all the books and all the workshops.
I got you here right now.
Let's not, don't make me do all that work.
That's the thing.
It's work.
It's a practice.
There's nothing better than lived experience.
So yeah, I'm going to invite you, and you as well Anya, just to see if you can be with that sensation.
In a way that's non-judgmental, because it's the judgmental piece that really starts to make things worse and adds more tension and stress in the body.
Well, I have a completely non-mindfulness possible like sometimes solution.
And it's, but I can't believe I'm going to say this out loud.
Say it loud and proud, girl.
So not only am I sleeping with the earplugs and the purple, you know, eye shades, with the headphones, I have these turquoise blue socks that separate.
They separate my toes.
I love those kinds of socks.
I even used to have the shoes, the Vibram shoes and they spread your toes.
Robin, what?
They're the greatest things ever.
For me sleeping like this with the purple headband and the turtleneck, and then like my wife being like to think I thought someone would steal you away.
The toe spreading socks, there's something about that.
And I will say this though that like, I've started putting them on like before the twitching comes, and then just being with it.
And then so I am being with it a little and then seeing what happens.
So I am being with it a little, Dora.
And the other thing I'll say, especially if this is showing up in your meditation practice, and I find this.
I teach a Wednesday night meditation class.
And it's so interesting when we're done meditating, do you like exhale?
Or of people?
It's like they weren't holding their breath while we were meditating.
I always remind people, you can move if you're meditating.
People just think it's about absolute stillness.
And I'm like, if you can't feel your hip and that's distracting you from the meditation practice move, lie down, stretch your legs out, move your arms.
And you can still do that with a sense of awareness and mindfulness of what you're doing in the moment.
And it still counts as meditation.
But I find people are just like holding it all together and can't even like move their eyebrow, or I'm just like move the body.
It's OK.
Well, and I wonder if like to that end if, like when Anya's meditating, or even struggling just before to go to sleep, like could you get up and do a little walking meditation, whether it be around your apartment or like in the morning, instead of like a seated meditation, so that there's movement.
Because I do know that movement of the feet helps meditation, like it's almost like when you have a muscle spasm.
So like maybe something in the movement as well as bringing tying that into the mindfulness as well.
Yeah.
Change positions, do yoga, stretch the body before you sit.
I really love the progressive muscle release technique where you squeeze a part of your body for a few seconds and then exhale and let it go.
So trying that.
I believe we have exercises in the app as well, but Yeah.
Moving the body.
Movement is so good and so necessary.
And even with yoga, yoga traditionally was created to help people sit in stillness.
So all those movements that people do, it was to invite people into the sitting practice of meditation.
So some light stretching, downward dogs, child's pose, whatever it is that you need to do.
But yeah, I think the not being able to move in meditation that needs to be, I don't know, debunked or yeah yeah, that's true.
I love that you're talking about movement.
You're talking about not judging it, but also I think that there's an education piece underneath of maybe trying to understand why it's happening.
Because you're right, some of it is hormonal for me, but I'm certain that when I'm on a plane it's anxiety.
Not because I'm afraid of flying, but because I'm just like I want this to be over and I want the flight to be there.
There's nowhere for me to go.
And then I can't sleep on planes.
So then I start winding up and that's just all a hundred percent anxiety.
So sometimes I'll walk the aisles or I'll go stretch in the back of the plane just to do stuff like that.
But like the understanding that, like, helps me, like, there's a physical component to it.
There's an anxiety component to it.
There may be, this is coming on because of hormones.
And me knowing that trifecta of reasons, I can then troubleshoot what it is that's happening.
Yeah.
So also see a doctor.
If you need to get tested and get your levels checked, like, I used to do that.
You may find out.
Yeah.
You may find out that there's other things going on in your body.
So, you know, meditation can only help us so far.
You know what I mean?
Like, I'm not going to tell you to meditate for everything.
Sometimes seeking medical advice is really important as well.
Yeah, that's true.
That's very true.
We do sort of, I think sometimes I look at it like, well, can't meditation fix that?
And it can always help, but it can't fix everything.
Yeah, I can.
It's a nice complementary practice.
But especially when it comes to like physical illnesses in the body.
It's like do both at the same time.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Well, Anya, just like we've said to the others, sleep well.
I wish you wide and separated and comfortable toes.
Yeah, wishing you wide and separated toes as well.
And, I think, for all of the listeners today.
One of the beautiful things about meditation is this highlighting or understanding of our relationship to thoughts emotions sensations, our bodies, the world.
And when it comes to sleep, understanding our relationship to it, I think, will be really, really beneficial.
And I feel like all of the questions today were like looking at our relationship to TV watching or, you know, to sounds in our environment, or to our legs.
But taking time to really understand that relationship can be really empowering and ultimately help us find a solution.
Yeah.
And it's just like sleep habits, I think we think should be intuitive.
And I don't know that they always are.
Like.
Sometimes it's like we have to look into ourselves and be like how do we?
This is just an extension of self-care.
Yeah, for sure.
And it's a lifestyle change.
I think yeah, we said that for the first question of like you may have to rearrange your entire life.
And that's the hard part about it.
Well, I'm going to I'm going to start practicing all of the stuff that we talked about.
My good sleep hygiene starts now.
Well, all right.
Well, later tonight.
So, all right.
Thank you for all of your wisdom, Dora.
And thanks to our callers, Mayan and Edie and Anya.
And if you have a question about sleep or literally anything else, go ahead and reach out to us.
I mean, we would love to hear your questions.
And all you have to do is head over to sayhi.chat slash Dear Headspace to record your question.
It is so easy, I promise you.
And that link is in the show notes.
And if we use your question in the show, you're going to get three months of Headspace for free, which is, in my opinion, a pretty great deal.
It is a great deal, if I do say so myself.
But yes, as always, please reach out with your questions.
I love this podcast so much because I love answering questions, but also it just reminds me that there's just so many things going on in life and so many things going on in the world.
And just in awe of people's courage and vulnerability to ask these questions.
Yeah.
Appreciate you all.
And now we have the soothing sounds of a laundromat just to help you to relax, to integrate and process everything that we have shared on the show today.
So sit back, relax and enjoy these ambient sounds.
Until next time, stay happy, stay healthy, get a good night's sleep and be kind to yourself and each other.
Dear Headspace is a Headspace Studios original podcast.
It's produced by Robin Hopkins, Ash Jones, and Scott Sorenson.
It's executive produced by Morgan Selzer, Sarah Cohn, Barron Farmer, and Danny Karisamy.
Our production coordinator is Taylor Jennings-Brown.
It's hosted and produced by Robin Hopkins, Kaysonga Giscombe, Dora Kamau, Samantha Snowden, Eve-Louise Prieto and Rosie Acosta.
Post-production is by Dan Kroll.
Music is by Scott Sorensen and Chris Mergia.
And a special thanks to Colleen Lutz.
