Discussion keeps the world turning.
This is Roundtable.
You're listening to Roundtable with myself, He Yang.
I'm joined by Fei Fei and Yunqi in the studio.
Coming up, some call themselves digital nomads, others joke they are just digital refugees.
It all depends on your wallet.
But, hey, if we're all just glued to our screens working like cyber laborers anyway, why not do it where the living costs the least. A new wave of remote workers is turning the trend around.
Hitting back to their hometowns is cheaper, familiar and comes with its own set of challenges.
But was it really like being a reverse nomad in your home sweet home?
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Now let's move on to the topic discussion that I've been thinking about since last tonight because you know what we're like?
We're tethered to this seat, to this microphone.
And in theory, we could do this remotely, but we're not allowed. So do you see where I'm getting at?
Digital nomads. For young Chinese, 2021 was the year of the digital nomad.
The pandemic gave rise to a work from anywhere lifestyle for those lucky enough to do their jobs with just a laptop and internet connection.
One day you're typing away in your bedroom.
The next you're zooming from a café, lounging in a park, or even sending emails with your toes in the sand on a beach in Sanya, Hainan Island.
Dreamy, right! Fast forward to 2025.
Things have shifted!
In order to save up on rent and living costs, many digital nomads have swapped tourist havens for a return to their roots.
Hometowns or nearby small counties.
And guess what? These small towns are rolling out the welcome mat.
Some are even building digital nomad communities to attract this new wave of remote workers.
So what makes these low -key spots a magnet for laptop -touting wanderers?
And how might this trend reshape the future of small town living in China?
Or am I going way too far and I need to hold my horses for a second.
So guys, maybe still briefly go through this definition of digital nomads and what's happening now that's catching your attention.
Well digital nomads are basically professionals that can work remotely basically from anywhere in the world with digital technology with the coverage of Wi -Fi and that's been a sort a lifestyle that's been developed by professionals for example, especially in computer programming, IT web design, creative fields, engineering, and even finance and marketing where basically if you are connected to the internet and you have your laptop you can build your business regardless of where you are.
But then in the traditional sense of the hotspots for these digital nomads, In China will be like Dali or Sanya.
Dali is this tourist town in Inan province and Sanya is also a tourist city in the province of Hainan and if you zoom out to the whole world, places like Bali Indonesia or Chiang Mai in Thailand and also I think in some cities in Portugal are also some of the popular spots for international digital nomads.
But of Of course, with these category of professionals, you can imagine the living expenses in these tourist cities or towns are rising.
Plus, with the inflation going around the world at the moment, a lot of the young professionals, especially those who don't run their own businesses, will find them financially challenged to stay in these tourist hotspots.
So some of them, for example, there was a woman in the report called Stella.
She worked in Beijing for eight years and then became a digital nomad in Dali for two years.
And then she realized that how expensive to continue to live in Dali.
And eventually she went back to her hometown where she found working in her hometown also has less distraction and her work efficiency also improved because you know with a bunch of digital nomads in Dali you sometimes get distracted I guess during your work and in that example her hometown is DiaoZhou a small city in Shandong province so and according to these reverse digital nomads they say that I wonder if this is a pleasant surprise or if they've already done the research before returning to the hometown or the nearby counties or small cities or whatnot.
They say that they are welcome by Starbucks or other luck in or you know what -have -you coffee shops and which didn't used to exist when they left their hometowns before let's say college or work or whatnot and their hometowns have become more urbanized and actually making it less of a life transition possibly to go back to their hometowns.
What do you see as what's really going on here and the possible, I suppose, advantages that are pulling people back to their hometowns and they're still calling themselves Digital Nomads.
Yeah. Isn't that nice?
because traditionally when we speak of digital nomads, you think about these very touristy, very synetic, beautiful sceneries, these touristy areas.
But of course, the cost of living will rise in these popular places and I think it's a very, it's perhaps one of the best options for people to go back to their own hometowns, because that's where perhaps your parents still are and you can spend quality time with your family.
And I think one very important feature to enable, to empower people to be able to actually go back to their hometown and just work there is that China's internet accessibility has really improved substantially over the years.
Because, according to this report from Xinhua, just this year, early in January, is that But the Internet penetration in China had reached 78 .6 % last year.
And as of November last year, China had built a total of over 4 million 5G base stations.
And I think one key thing, if you want to ever be a digital nomad is that you need to choose a place with an accessible Wi -Fi connection or Internet connection.
because there's no if there's no Internet connection, how can you ever be a digital nomad?
And the improved Internet infrastructure in the Chinese rural areas, or even just the small towns, have really empowered people to just work everywhere every time or but all at once.
Yeah. OK. Also, just a quick question here.
So they're still retaining the digital part of their title.
But if they're going back to Mom and Dad or living nearby Mom and Dad, then does that even count as being a nomad anymore?
Well, yeah, that's a really good question.
But I guess being a nomad means you move around a lot.
Maybe they're living in their hometowns for a couple of years and then saving some money to be more financial stabilized.
They will travel around the world again.
Who knows? I think that's a stop on their nomadic lifestyle.
And I think the reason that a lot of young people are going back to their hometowns, another reason is that the extensive high -speed railway network.
For example, in the example of Stella we just mentioned, she went back to her hometown in Zhaozhou in the Shannan province, and that's about two -three hours high -speed train away from big cities like Beijing and Shanghai.
So it's still the reason she is able.
She's willing to settle again in her hometown.
I think one of the reasons is that she's still not far away from her old lifestyle in Beijing or in Dali.
And so if she needs to go on a trip or she wants to do some recreational activities in the big cities, she can still can do it.
And the living expenses in Jiao zhou, of course, is much more cheaper than Beijing, Shanghai, and also Delhi.
So I think that's one reason.
And another reason is that for, I can imagine, I've never been to Zhaochu myself before, but I can guess a lot of the smaller cities, towns, and villages in China, they actually have a quite different life than us living in Beijing.
They have a very slow -paced lifestyle, and I think that's what's attracting a lot of digital nomads in the first place, that they don't want to be chained to the desk, they don't want to be trapped in the really busy working schedule, they want to be flexible, and these smaller cities with enough Wi -Fi coverage, with quiet coffee shops that they enjoy and with the extensive transport system, why not?
mm -hmm and the way you guys have portrayed it it sounds like a really rosy picture for these digital nomads who've gone back to their hometowns or not but once they actually go back apparently a set of unique challenges have popped up their ugly heads I'll give you one example that is apparently just imagine this, if you're a digital nomad you've been free, a wanderer, for at least more than a year in your lifetime and now you're kind of back to where your mom and dad can see you and they will speak!
And apparently there is a generation gap here in the understanding of what work should entail and mom and as loving and caring as they are, they could be worried that what my daughter or son does not have a job that he or she can go visit to a physical place and sit down for eight hours that's not stable I'm worried for my kid and they will also go on talking about maybe you should get a stable job or something like that so these digital nomads when they come back after the first week where it's still the honeymoon phase between you and parents and then there's this clash of perception of what you
should do in life and some digital nomads apparently have gone so far to the extent that they've disguised what they're truly doing and they say oh actually I do have a job it's in the county and they'll dress up as if they're going to work and report to parents weekly or monthly or whatnot but yeah that's different from what we imagine as a typical nomad lifestyle.
So they have to make arrangements or many of them have made arrangements that kind of depart from the traditional idea of the digital nomad work and lifestyle.
What do you say to these challenges that they're facing?
That's a very good point because a lot of the occupations that enable digital nomadic style of working may not be the kind of occupation that our parents' generation can understand and perceive and if you don't even have a physical office to go to and you're just spending all your day in your room working on your computer.
So the first few weeks going back to your hometown working remotely online may feel like as Hyeon put it that honeymoon period.
But then it is sooner or later your parents are starting to question you and maybe apply pressure and that might be the opposite to the reason that you escaped from the busy hustle, hustling city life.
you might be just taking pressure in a different way from a different person.
Oh, no. Oh, no. What do you think, Fei Fei?
I think if you are going back to your hometown, you need to have certain expectations of what you will encounter in your hometown.
You grew up in that area.
You know the culture there.
So I think for those nomads who know that their current lifestyle may clash with the local culture.
They sort of need to mentally prepare for these challenges that they may encounter, but if you're seeking that economic benefit in living in your hometown, maybe you also need to sort of mitigate these challenges.
But I think it's a short term thing Because when I look at the digital nomads, I start to think of the flexible job category right now within under the policy support at the moment.
So for people who are adopting a flexible job employment form, they are also able to pay for their own Social Security and healthcare so that they're counted as jobless in the official balance sheet.
So, I think with that being incorporated and also sort of informed to the public more and more older generation will realize that right now the society is shifting.
Not all jobs need to require you to sit by the desk eight hours and sign a contract with another company.
And I think their mind will start to slowly open up.
Yeah. But for those who don't, you can, you're a nomad.
You can travel and you can move around.
Leave. Yes. It's not like you have to be there.
It's really interesting what you said there.
And yeah, there's a lot to process because we are going through some societal changes.
Well, when we were talking about this, initially what I thought was as long as you get your money.
You get your pay and you see that money has arrived in my bank account.
I see the notification.
Bam! I'm happy. I don't see why there is any other like strings attached.
You know, Brouhaha about this.
But then I suddenly start to think oh, yeah, of course because if you're in a smaller town, then it's more of a Shu Renshuo Hui of the traditional Chinese sense.
Based on connections.
Yeah, and people all know each other.
And then maybe the sense of prestige in that's attached to your work is still very much alive and true.
But in big cities, nobody knows each other.
Nobody cares. You just do your thing and that's a freedom.
But in those smaller locations, then maybe those traditional ideas of, Oh, being a civil servant is apparently still the most prestigious job in these communities.
and then it might take some explaining if you feel like it but some people just can't even be bothered.
And also there's one interesting possible opportunity for these digital nomads because they're proficient in using all kinds of digital tools, AI and also making videos and all these things and could this be a leverage that they can utilize in these smaller locations, the counties, small towns or even rural areas, what opportunities do you possibly see there?
Well I think for especially for those who are struggling in their home towns and I think the options out there are quite a lot.
You can move to as Hoh Hoh Yeh mentioned to the smaller locations in other provinces and regions within the country.
And I think a lot of, especially villages, they're welcoming these young digital nomads because first of all, a lot of the villages do have an aging population and that they want, you know, fresh faces, younger generations to move into those villages.
And so a lot of villages and towns, they're setting up, for example, some sort of a coffee shop or a facility for this digital nomads to work in.
And they also have, as Yinshi mentioned, the Wi -Fi coverage.
They're sort of encouraging and attracting this digital nomads to move into their community.
And I think that's been quite popular in, for example, in the province of Zhejiang because it's a more developed region in China.
And for example, in the county of Anji, The County has over 300 coffee shops and more than 1 ,800 homestay in and also brand hotels.
So digital communities can still accommodate the beautiful sites of Angie, which is very famous for its tea culture.
I think it's now opening up the market for digital nomads that You don't need to only go to this very limited choice of locations, only Dali, only Sanya, only Bali, which are very expensive.
You can, you know, open up your lens and there are smaller options on the market that you can choose.
Yeah, but smaller might be actually better and also there are examples, I saw one online about digital nomads who actually play a role in rural revitalization.
Apparently, there is a coffee shop in a digital nomads community and then they use fruits from a local farmer.
We perhaps don't need to go into the details but just for so many years that there has been this trend of younger people leaving the small smaller towns to the big cities Beijing, Shanghai, Shenzhen, you name it and now I feel like it's a re -balance of the population around China that there are people that start to get tired of the busy city life, and they start to go back to where they come from, or go back to their hometowns.
And there's this rebalance of population, and that will just naturally boost the local economy, bring the city habits like the coffee culture, the higher requirements or stable Wi -Fi connection, and boost a lot of these industries in the local community.
and that's a plus that's a win -win for both regions.
Yeah we keep on mentioning coffee shops for one reason because this is the cheapest and more common place for digital nomads to work, so well they need a place to set up their computer and do their work and apparently the coffee shop right around the corner in their hometown or the nearby county has exactly that, so this becomes their work pod and that's why we keep on mentioning these coffee shops.
And these are some sort of mushroom after the rain and only happen within the last few years are the infrastructure ready for more people who are essentially remote workers.
And I still like to make the point that to become a digital nomad slash remote worker, it's a privilege.
It is. Yeah. Like we don't qualify and not to make it about us all the time.
So, you know, for folks who we see it's a growing body, but still this is only one segment of the workforce who can afford to work remotely and keep on doing so.
And, on the other hand, I'm really happy to see that people are really utilizing or seizing the opportunity to make what's best for their lives.
And for this new generation, work is no longer a fixed place, it's a flexible idea.
Whether it's a county town or a co -working space by the sea, what matters is having the freedom to choose.
Clashing with parents?
Sure, discovering unexpected opportunities, absolutely.
But at the end of the day, they're charting their own course, choosing where to go, choosing how to live and ultimately, choosing a lifestyle powered by both the dream and the work.
Wherever they lead you.
And also if you are so inclined, if you have any thoughts about today's show or topics for suggestion.
For a future show, please feel free to email us or send us a voice memo to RoundtablePodcast at QQ .com, and the last 400 entries of our previous shows are living alive on our podcast, Roundtable China.
I'm Heh Young. We'll see you next time.
