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This is Roundtable.
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I'm Steve Hatherly today with Fei-Fei and Yushan.
Coming up.
Open a music app in China and you might find a thousand-year-old poet trending alongside today's pop stars.
It is a cultural revival powered by modern musicians setting ancient lyrics to new melodies.
Young listeners are swapping textbooks for playlists, so to speak.
And on today's China Finds, we'll explore how the past is going viral in the present.
Our podcast listeners can find us at Roundtable China on Apple Podcasts.
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And now.
Think history is behind us?
Think again.
Timeless discoveries.
Modern meanings.
This is China Finds.
It is time for another edition of China Finds.
And actually, Yushan, it's been a while since we've covered China Finds here on the show.
So why don't you remind our listeners exactly what this segment's all about?
Well, this segment is about some interesting findings on the new archaeological studies, but also in our history and culture.
What we find interesting and that we want to present to you, and how that aligns with our modern day lives.
Now, today is a rather interesting story where past truly does meet present.
That's very cliche.
We say it a lot, right?
Where past meets present.
But in this case, it is absolutely 1000% true.
Yeah, indeed.
For the past two months, I've already seen all different mainstream or social media streams reporting on the fact that how ancient Chinese poets are now officially listed as songwriters on streaming apps, especially music players like QQ Music or NetEase Music.
So now, if you look for, For example, some of these very famous names like, for example, Su Shi from the Song Dynasty from year 960 to 12 1279, as well as other big-name poets like Li Bai or Bai Juyi from the Tang Dynasty, which lasted from 618 to 907,
If you look for these names on music apps, they will appear and the profile picture will be their portrait from one or two several ancient paintings.
That captures the look back then.
And then underneath for the work column, it will be different songs adapted based on their poets.
I actually checked on QQ Music, the app, this morning, and I searched for Bai Zhuyi and surprisingly, Bai Zhuyi has more than 11000 followers.
Already? on that app.
And it was like, and also have like multiple works that he was listed as a lyricist.
And listen to one of the songs is pretty good, actually.
Yeah, actually the fact or the action of adapting ancient poems into songs, into modern songs, has been around since at least 9 to 10 years.
Oh, I didn't know that.
Ever since 2017, I've read about posts on how young people like college students or university bands are actively adapting ancient poems into pop songs or rock songs.
That's so cool.
But in the meantime, we see music apps trying to match up with that trend by adding these famous poets from ancient China as lyricists on their apps.
So these poems that were written by these ancient poets like Li Bai and Bai Zhuyi.
And by the way, these names, everybody in China would know these names.
Yes.
Yes.
It's kind of like Shakespeare in the West, kind of, in terms of public knowledge.
Okay, so these poems written by these poets, they were intended to be enjoyed musically.
Is that correct?
Well, some are just poems, but some others like for example when we talk about 詞 which kind of primed during Song Dynasty, that is meant as lyrics indeed.
And well, For the heritage part, we only now only have the lyrics left.
We don't know how this particular piece was sang back in the Song Dynasty.
But yeah, we still have the lyrics.
So people are getting creative and that's not really surprising.
So for today's China Finds, we're going to try to turn it into a little bit of a poetry segment, which works for me, because I was an English literature major and I studied poetry for a good few years.
So I'm very happy to get into this because obviously, you know, you said these names, sushi.
Am I saying that correctly?
Sushi.
Su Shi.
Right.
With the same spelling as Su Shi, but yeah, Su Shi will be his name.
Li Bai, Bai Ju Yi.
These are household names in China.
Yeah, they are.
But these are not names that Western people, nobody would know who these people are, right?
Who these poets are.
So I'm really excited to learn a little bit of what we can today.
So where do we begin?
Let's begin with Su Shi, the name that we were just learning.
For many of you if it's the first time, then Su Shi is actually known to be the quote-unquote god of poems.
So for any of these famous poets back in the days, they all have some sort of a, A title.
So for Su Shi I searched that it's the god of poem, and for Li Bai is it the saint of poem.
Yeah, yeah, in English translation, because their genre, their style can be different.
But for many people.
Today, Su Shi is remembered as a poet, but his life was far richer and more dramatic than just that.
It can be summed up in three different segments.
First of all, his early success.
He kind of became popular at the young age of 21 years old, and that's back in the year 1057, when he passed the imperial examination and was really impressed by all the No.
He got the impression by all the other chief examiners who said that he's going to be some famous people in the future, which he did.
Oh, because his exam results were so impressive?
Yeah, the essay he wrote touched a lot of people.
And after he became an official, and that leads to the second phase, which is a turbulent political career of his.
And despite his brilliant start, despite his really high talent in writing political writings and theses, and also writing being up forward with his attitude towards his colleagues and towards the court, he was repeatedly demoted and exiled because of just that.
As you can imagine, if someone is extra straightforward and doesn't have the filter when they speak, they're probably less popular among their peers.
Sure.
Still true today.
Yeah, for him, that's exactly the case.
He was exiled to so many different places, at least five or six, if I'm remembering correctly.
And then we learn about the third, which is also the most memorable part of his life, which is his open-mindedness.
He's got the spirit.
Wherever I'm exiled to, I'm still me and I still enjoy life the way it is, no matter what happens.
So one big part that local people loved him about, and modern people still love him about, is the fact that he is a genuine foodie.
Oh, really?
He was.
He came up with a lot of different dishes, especially pork related, I think.
And wherever he go, he enjoys local food and he combines his culinary knowledge with local food and come up with new recipes.
Was he writing during all of the different periods of his life, or a lot of his poetry came from his reflective years later in life, or even as early as 21, when he was excelling with his exams?
Was he also writing poetry then?
Yeah, he was writing for the majority of his life, I believe and his writing style is often described as a very bold and free-spirited and expansive kind of style, just like how his characteristics implies.
And, unlike many poets of his time, Su Shi drew inspiration from an unusual, um unusually wide range of subjects in everyday life.
He just likes to bring in the natural, very personal, if not sentimental kind of quality into his verses.
He also you said he loved pork.
Yeah right, he wrote an article called old to pork.
That's awesome.
But he also invented Yeah, very famous dish.
One of the most internationally well-known Chinese dishes.
Dongpo Rou.
Dongpo Rou.
Dongpo is his other name that he was also known as.
Oh, really?
Okay.
It's like the title people give him.
Yeah, he also invented this vegetable porridge called Dongpo Geng.
Yeah, when he was also on exile.
And I think I've actually saw a lot of videos these days on Douyin that people use AI technology regenerated.
You know Su Shi's life journey as he was demoted to different places in China.
And people are making comparisons, you know, for other officials.
Normally, if you are, you know, demoted and exiled into a very distant small county, you'll be very depressed.
You'll be very sad.
But for Su Shi, he would be turning to food.
What can I eat here?
Yeah, so he enjoyed pork in Hubei.
He enjoyed, I think, lychee in Guangdong.
And when he was demoted to Hainan, he enjoyed oysters there.
And he also wrote poems about this delicious, how delicious this food is.
It sounds like he wasn't overly concerned about his resume, so to speak.
He was.
He was?
Yeah, I think he was.
He just didn't willing to change anything, to give in to who he really is, despite the fact that he cares about his resume and his career and also his long-lasting hobby, for being straightforward with his idea.
So one of the poems you've chosen that is most widely heard, and the poem that you chose this is a poem from Susha that has been covered musically today.
Yeah, and a lot of people know this poem, the Shui Diao Ge Tou, or Prelude to Water Melody, because of a famous pop song adapted based on it.
And it's sang by famous Chinese pop singer Wang Fei.
And I don't remember the name of that song, but it sings exactly the same lyrics as in the poem.
So he well, Su Shi, composed this poem at the age of 39, when it's already kind of almost two decades after his first rise to fame.
And by then he was already widely recognized, and which makes the poem not only a work of his rising talent, but also of a master at the height of his influence.
And I really want to share this poem with you so that we can get a taste of what Su Shi's writing is about.
And also the English that I'm about to present is translated by famous Chinese translator Xu Yuan Chong.
Let's hear it.
Men have sorrow and joy.
They part or meet again.
The moon is bright or dim, and she may wax or wane.
There has been nothing perfect since the olden days.
So let us wish that man may live long as he can.
Through miles apart, we'll share the beauty she displays.
This right here today is one of the reasons I wanted to move to China.
I mean, it's so cool, right?
And special thanks to Shen Ting, the host of More to Read, who contributed his voice.
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
I just want to go over this quickly.
Men have sorrow and joy.
They part or meet again.
The moon is bright or dim.
She may wax or wane.
There has been nothing perfect since the olden days.
There it's kind of like life has its ups and downs.
The moon will be bright sometimes.
It won't be bright sometimes.
Friends will leave each other and then they'll meet again.
And life is never perfect.
So for all of us, may we live as long as we can.
Even though we might be miles apart, we'll share the beauty she displays, meaning it doesn't matter where we are, we can still enjoy our lives.
Or still enjoy the same lunar light that we look up at.
So you can probably guess this poem is especially popular when it's mid-autumn festival, when the moon is the shiniest.
That's also kind of the background story of it.
So back then when he composed it, Su Shi has been separated from his younger brother, Su Zhe.
The two were very close.
And they were separated because they were local officials of two different places and they kind of could not meet each other at the very time of Mid-Autumn Festival, when it's time for family reunion.
So this poem just reflects his wish for family reunion and his longing for family reunion.
Roughly what year?
He was 39 when he wrote this.
Roughly what year was that?
The year 1050 something.
60?
60, 70.
So something written in the year 1060 still resonates very strongly with us today.
Yeah, and also I think even though I think Su Shi here was writing about his thinking about his brother, I think currently a lot of people, when they are thinking about Even their spouses, the other part, their partners, their friends, their family,
So you can expand to anyone that you love and you want to devote this poem to them.
Yeah, which is why it's so popular still with musicians who want to sing it out loud.
Indeed.
All right, so who's the other?
You chose Bai Zhu Yi as the other poet you wanted to talk about today.
Exactly.
Bai Zhiyi is one of China's most popular poets.
He's from the Tang Dynasty.
And one of his most famous works I'd like to kind of present to everybody today is called Pipa Xiong, The Song of a Pipa Player.
So you know pipa, or the Chinese lute, is kind of like a guitar shaped, traditional Chinese instrument.
And this is a very long poem, but basically all Chinese people, especially young people, know it quite well because it's part of our Chinese textbook.
You have to recite to attend Gaokao.
Oh, this is the one.
Oh, my gosh.
This is Shakespeare's to be or not to be.
That is the question.
Oh, really?
Well, we have to memorize.
Well, as lit majors, we have to memorize.
Gosh, I think I memorized almost that whole thing.
So this is one that everybody... So can you still remember the whole thing, I wonder?
Just the most popular part that I'm about to present you to.
So yeah, this poem that I'm about to present to you, 琵琶行, it was composed in a quite unique background story because when Bai Zhuyi... was taking his journey along the Yangtze River actually, that's over a thousand years ago, he encountered a former courtesan who had once been a very famous pipa player, um previously and they met on the river on boats and she was there to present her pipa skill but because of the very vibrant sad and emotional presentation and performance that she delivered everybody was curious like what kind of brought you to this state of art demonstration that you have.
And she told her story of how she has been having a hard life, which resonated with the poet himself, Bai Zhuyi, and everybody else on the boat.
They ended up crying together after the pipa song.
So yeah, I just feel like even today I'm kind of astonished by how vivid it is that the music is presented in today's um, in this very piece, the first um one third of the of the poem.
So this one's a little bit longer than our last clip.
So um, but you're going to share, and this isn't even the whole thing, it's just a third of it, About a third of it.
Yes,
Okay, let's hear it.
Let's listen to it.
千呼万唤使出来 油爆琵琶半遮面
Repeatedly, we called for the fair player till she came, her face half-hidden behind the pipa still.
She turned the pegs and tested twice or thrice each string.
Before a tune was played, we heard her feelings sing.
Each string, she plucked.
Each note, she struck with pathos.
Strong, all seemed to say she'd missed her dreams all her life long.
Headbent, she played with unpremeditated art, on and on to pour out her overflowing heart.
She lightly plucked, slowly stroked and twanged loud the song of green waste, after that of rainbow cloud.
The thick strings loudly thrummed like the pattering rain.
The fine strings softly tinkled in a murmuring strain.
When mingling loud and soft notes were together played, you heard large and small pearls cascade on plate of jade.
Now you heard orioles warble in flowery land, then a sobbing stream run along a beach of sand.
But the stream seemed so cold as to tighten the string.
From tightened strings, no more sound could be heard to sing.
Still, we heard hidden grief and vague regret concealed.
The music expressed far less than silence revealed.
Suddenly, we heard water burst a silver jar and the clash of spears and sabres coming from afar.
She made a central sweep when the music was ending.
The four strings made one sound as if silk one is rending.
Silence reigned left and right of the boat, east and west.
We saw but autumn white in the river's breast.
Even that English translation was very poetic.
Well, there are many versions and I chose this one because of just that.
It's the most beautiful version that I think.
Absolutely.
And this is the story.
It's kind of observational in the moment about this lovely lute player and the songs that were being sung.
Yeah.
And kind of we can probably hear now that what makes Bai Zhiyi's poetry stand out is how approachable it feels.
He paints a picture right in front of your eyes with words.
You could almost see that scene or you almost felt listening.
Hear that music.
Yeah.
Like you were there almost somehow.
Yeah, and beneath that, accessibility was a very deep purpose too.
Many of Bai Zhuyi's poems reflect the realities of ordinary people's lives and offered sharp observations on the social and political issues of his time.
When we think about Tang Dynasty, we think about all the flourishing and the fast developing of China.
But yeah, beneath that there's a lot of sad stories or individual experiences that's worth hearing too.
Fei-Fei, what do you think?
Why are people still so fascinated by these poets and poets?
Why are we seeing now on music apps that these names are still very popular today, and so are the poems?
Well, I think the poems sort of speak for themselves.
They're just so beautifully written, but also they are written for something that's transcending through time, through world, through language, through cultures.
It's about, you know, some of the emotions that you would feel today even on your daily basis.
Maybe you are lost here.
Maybe you are feeling defeated.
Maybe you are sad.
Maybe you feel accomplished.
You can always find your piece of poem, sort of together communicating, with either Bai Ju Yi or Li Bai or Su Shi, because they are writing exactly the same feeling as you.
Yeah, previously we talked about this in the Qingming Festival, the tomb sweeping day, when young people go to offer ibuprofen to Cao Cao in front of his tomb, even though he's passed away thousands of years.
And it's the same.
Young people nowadays.
They still want to pay tributes to the classics that people still love and feel for today.
So it's the exact same spirits.
Yeah, and I think that's the cool thing.
And it's almost comforting in a way that young people, old people, doesn't matter.
You get to see, oh...
People in the year 1050 were feeling and thinking the same things that I'm feeling today.
They had the same emotional hardships that I have today.
And I feel like that just connects generations somehow.
Yeah, and even with.
Maybe the technology is different, maybe the society is different, but we are humans, are still humans.
The emotions, the life path, the life journeys that we encounter are still very similar.
Very lovely.
I enjoyed that.
Yushan, thank you very much.
And that will do it for today's roundtable.
Thank you very much for being a part of our program today for Yushan and Feifei.
I'm Steve.
Enjoy your time and please do come back again.
