Conan O'Brien needs a fan.
Want to talk to Conan?
Visit teamcoco.com slash callconan.
Okay, let's get started.
Hello, folks.
Hi, Derek.
Welcome to Conan Needs a Fan with special guest Darcy Carden.
Derek, how are you?
I'm doing well.
Good to see you.
Okay, so you can see us.
You can see us and we can see you.
Oh, yeah.
That's what I was waiting for.
Derek, where are you calling from?
I'm in Mountain View, California.
Very nice.
I've been there.
Have you been to Mountain View?
Is that where Shoreline is?
Shoreline Amphitheater?
Yeah, Shoreline Amphitheater.
So you know things by theater.
Yes, yes, yes.
Well, I saw Lollapalooza there when I was like in junior high at the Shoreline.
I'm confirming this right now.
Wait, Lollapalooza?
Yeah.
In like 90 freaking something.
Oh, okay.
At the Shoreline.
Yeah.
Okay.
He's kind of saying it like, oh, she's wrong, but I'm right.
No, no.
Interesting, but I'm right.
I thought that was a Chicago show, but maybe I...
It used to travel.
Yeah.
No, but we got off on the wrong foot.
No, that's great.
No, that's wonderful.
Darcy, normally I would say.
We don't talk.
No, no, no.
Darcy, I would say that pretty much anything anyone adds is valuable.
This has been a diarrhea cul-de-sac.
Absolute diarrhea.
That's what I do.
It was perfect.
It was perfect.
Okay, good.
No notes, no notes.
Great, great, great.
There are no mistakes.
Except that one.
Derek, I understand that you're somehow related to the world of pinball, but I don't know in what way.
Yes.
Well, I want to talk about that.
One quick thing I wanted to say is not only am I connected to the pinball, but I am also connected to you in ways that I think I would just like to lay it out there.
My case that of course I am a fan, but in some universe I probably could be a friend at some point.
And I have three connections in particular.
I just wanted to highlight real quick.
So today I was listening to your latest or one of your latest, the Judd Apatow Returns.
Judd Apatow, longtime collaborator of his is Amanda Glaze, went to high school with me.
So that's one.
Okay.
That's one.
Second, I am very good friends with Randy and Jason Sklar, two times shown on your show 2011, 2022 or, I'm sorry, 2020.
Okay, that's two.
Can I say something?
Number three better be really good.
Really, really good.
I'm just being honest with you.
Yes.
You want to say the toffee bar?
I'm holding a chocolate bar that sometimes is mixed with toffee.
I mean, it's got to be good.
The pressure's really on.
I think it's pretty good.
I think it's pretty good.
And you can rate it however you see fit.
But in 2007 my wife roomed with Kesha, your friend, at Columbia University for a summer program where my wife's instructor, her professor for that program, was Liza.
Okay, that's it.
He got there.
He got there.
Home run.
You got there.
I'm telling you.
Listen.
Kesha, very strong.
Because I love Kesha.
Kesha and I are... She's my spirit animal.
Are we talking the singer Kesha?
Yeah.
She's amazing.
Oh, yeah.
No, Kesha's my spirit animal and we're good pals.
And I live and breathe all things Kesha.
So that was very strong.
But then when you pull out that her professor was...
My wife, that's nuts.
And I remember that summer, Liza was pregnant that summer.
Yeah, I think with me.
Yeah, with Darcy, with Darcy.
I'm their little baby.
Right, right.
And you came out and you went, gaga, goo goo, and then winked right to camera.
And you were 20.
It was just really weird.
And you were like, I don't want her.
I don't want her.
I was like, this is the kid for me.
Well, that's amazing.
That's very cool.
That was really good.
And Derek, I'm going to get us to pinball because someone told me a little bird.
Beep, beep, beep.
That's what a bird says.
Beep.
Beep, beep, beep.
Beep, beep.
It's a robot bird.
Oh, you should have said that then.
I think with Darcy here, we aren't going to get to anything with you, Derek.
No, no, I love it.
This is great.
Yes.
Beep, beep.
I'm a bird.
I'm half a walrus.
It's all broken.
Derek, I don't care anymore what your schtick is.
I just don't care.
We're just here to have a nice conversation.
Sure.
So pinball, anything?
Ring a bell?
Oh, yes.
So yeah, so pinball, yes.
I'm happy to share about it, actually, because I have a lot to say about it.
I wouldn't think so.
Not based on how this has gone so far.
We'll get to pinball, but first, 95 things.
The Sklar brothers once asked you on Broadway.
They were on their way to get a sandwich and you had just come from the Sandwich Islands.
Go ahead.
No, it was Mendocino Farms.
I'll be clear about it, okay?
I like Gary.
But no, yeah, so pinball, yeah, it's one of my great loves.
So I figured I would just give you a little insight into sort of what the competitive pinball landscape kind of looks like.
Well, you have an official title, do you not, in the world of pinball?
I do, I do.
What is that?
I'm one of the commissioners of the San Francisco Pinball Department.
Huge.
Wow.
Okay.
So it's a little bit north of me because I'm in Mountain View.
San Francisco is about 38 miles north, not to be exact.
But the, yeah, the Pinball League.
100 people.
We all compete at this lovely print shop that has 50 pinball machines in the front by the name Free Gold Watch.
If you go to San Francisco in the Haight-Ashbury, please go check it out.
It's wonderful.
It's a match play style of competition where you are randomly put into, let's say, if this was our group of four, you play five games over the course of the night.
You get points based on how you finish each game.
If We play the first game.
Conan, you get the best score.
Darcy, you get the second best score.
Seven, five, three, one.
So you accumulate those points.
There's a big finals at the end.
And we actually have a former world champion in our league who won the big enchilada back in 2013.
Okay, Derek, I have some questions that must be answered immediately.
One, how can one play pinball well?
I mean, you're very limited because you just have these two flippers you can operate.
Right, well, sometimes more.
Oh, okay.
But still, how does one become, say, the pinball wizard?
Such a supple wrist.
A pinball wizard has to be a twist.
Yes!
What is a twist?
Because I know that that guy, even at his favorite table, he can beat my best.
Anyway, when he was a cowboy, he once owned a vest.
I don't think that was... He thought that he was sick, so he had that special test.
Listen, Derek, I don't think there's any time for you today.
I'm sorry.
No, no, I'm kidding.
We're going to get to this.
How does one play pinball well?
What would you tell me to do?
Well, I think the biggest thing, I think that one of the biggest things that I tell people sort of you know to try to break down pinball into, I think what is a key element is patience.
And I think one of the things that a lot of people do, you know, for most people it is a very random thing, right?
You play pinball, you put your money in, the ball goes, it kind of goes where it goes.
You're sort of at the whim of physics.
And I will say I'll just cut in and say I bash a lot.
I'm a basher.
So the ball gets near my flipper and I'm just bashing away.
That's wrong.
That's not what I should be doing.
Correct.
No.
Well, not necessarily.
So, so and this is something I also want to talk about is, you know, a lot of people think that you are not allowed like that.
It's cheating to move the table.
Right.
Not not and not against the rules.
You can do stuff to the table?
I thought it said tilt, tilt, and you were disqualified.
So that's the natural consequence if you move it too much.
So you got to know the sort of cadence of the game in order to move it how you need to.
Because sometimes the ball's coming straight down the middle.
You got to do something.
Right, there's nothing you can do.
Sometimes you get out of it.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Well, there's one thing you can do is give that game a good shake and then you can make it happen.
So if I shake it, it won't say tilt?
You might if you do it too hard.
But you've got to know this part of being a professional.
Yes, yes.
You got to have like that finesse.
Wow.
But yeah, but the patience element that I wanted to mention was in terms of you know, when the ball comes to the flippers.
I think it's very, and I'll demonstrate here.
The most nerve-wracking thing in my life is this part.
Is that as soon as it gets down there, you just start going crazy.
You're just trying to get the ball right back up to the top, which is a natural inclination.
A lot of times, one of the key skills I think you want to build is what's called the dead flip.
And the dead flip is essentially you watch that ball.
If you see that's coming to one of the flippers, you let it strike that flipper without flipping and let the natural carom of the ball go to the other flipper and maybe even hold that ball.
Then you can cradle it, you know, hold it in sort of stationary position or you know, just at least get a slower shot off.
So you can control your pace of play.
So you cradle the ball.
You can cradle the ball, yes.
And then you hold it.
And then you let it go.
Then you cradle it.
And then you let it go.
And then you let it go.
Do flip.
And then, yeah, you figure out that sweet spot on the flipper.
You're going to hit the ramp.
You're going to hit the ramp.
Well, you kind of let it go.
Do flip.
And then flip-a-loo.
She's right on it.
Yeah, but I think I do have that patience.
I think I could be a part of this.
I'm going to need to get a free gold watch.
Yes, well, there's plenty of great leagues in LA as well.
And also this is something I know about Darcy just from previous conversations we've had that she's from the Bay Area originally.
So this would be a natural for you to go to this place, play this game.
You have the patience.
I'm...
I'm not a patient man.
Right, right, right.
I'm just going to say that I'm not a patient man.
It's good to know that about yourself.
And I'm a rough person.
I bash things.
I smash them like a gorilla.
Yeah.
With a Samsonite suitcase in an ad in 1966.
That's me.
Wonderful.
Yeah.
That would be a problem.
But I would be willing to manage Darcy if you quit everything you're doing in show business and went 24-7 hard.
I would sponsor you.
You would?
Yeah.
Okay.
But no acting, no more of your success.
You say goodbye to all that because this is the future now.
There's no time for that.
I honestly love it.
I love pinball.
Good.
That's an agreement.
Okay, great.
So I'll sign right here.
Conan O'Brien.
Oh, no!
I'm a witness.
You witnessed it.
Yeah, yeah.
So this is fascinating.
Is there any cheating?
Do people ever mess with the game?
Have you ever caught someone who has infiltrated the game, maybe tweaked it in a way?
Added another ball?
Oh, I'm sorry.
I said that like it's easy to do.
It's not easy to do that.
I mean, that wasn't what I was thinking, but I wasn't getting that specific.
Right.
Sure.
Yeah.
Well, there's definitely things I'd say, I'd say in terms of you know, I guess, conduct issues that you might encounter.
You know, if our officials, who we have players who act as officials during the league nights and during the tournaments,
If they see, you know, basically like bad behavior, like trying to distract players sometimes, like playing in a way that is meant to kind of, like you know, pull their eyeline away, like kind of stand on their side.
Oh, can I ask you a question?
Is there trash talking?
Is there trash talking?
There is.
There is.
But I'd say, you know, you got to, just like any area, you got to know your audience, right?
So I think there's probably most of the trash talk is between.
You know people who really are just playing hard and want to have fun.
Sometimes yeah, if there is trash talk.
The tournament directors have extraordinary discretion to give warnings or to just ban or exclude someone from a tournament if they think that they're just not conducive to the environment.
Wow.
What would be an example of acceptable?
You got a limp paddle.
Right, right, right.
But that's okay.
That's okay.
Your paddle's so limp.
Can you say you got a limp paddle?
Do you ever say you got a limp paddle?
That's a new one.
I mean, I think you could bring a lot to the trash talk game with that.
I'm pretty good at trash talking.
But is it just like, probably no swearing, right?
No F, no S, no B, no A?
I would say even there.
Very good.
I mean, W is fine.
W is fine.
But no, I'd say, with that there's actually a fair amount of tolerance, or at least, like I've seen, people who have like really big reactions.
And even then, you know, as long as it's genuine sort of like, it's in the heat of passion, it's not really directed in sort of a really sort of malicious way.
I think that you might get a warning just like hey, just try to keep it cool, but you're not going to get banned for that.
Okay.
And so yeah, so I think you know there's levels to it, as with any sort of group activity, that way,
But in terms of the game, yeah, the adulteration of the game, I'd say is probably unlikely.
There's, I mean, there's maybe one thing that actually happens.
When you say fixing the game, you mean it's hard to get in there and adjust the electronics?
Oh, sure.
Right, right, right.
Yeah like, or yeah like, you would have to like, especially Sona to your suggestion in terms of adding balls or something like that that would require you to remove the glass.
Right.
Unless you, like, drilled a hole in the side.
No, but that's what I'm talking about.
Someone coming in the night before, being lowered on ropes like Tom Cruise.
Right.
And then you know, lifting the glass off with little suction cups and then inserting another ball and then maybe some other stuff in there, trimming a wire, doing this or that.
Yeah.
That gives you the advantage.
Yeah, but then also the next person that uses, it's not your... It blows up after you.
Oh, oh, oh.
It explodes.
It self-destructs.
Right, right.
And then you win.
You win because no one else can play it.
On the subject of specific games, I know there are specific games with specific themes.
Yes.
Are there games that are thought of?
I used to work on The Simpsons, so obviously I know there was a Simpsons game.
Is that game well thought of in the community?
Well, there's two.
So there's The Simpsons Pinball Party, a much more recent release that actually, I think is generally very well liked as a game.
And it's got Homer's Garage.
It's got a lot of fun references.
The monorail is there.
So you're covered.
Hey, should I get money from this?
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, you should be checking with your folks.
Yeah.
Yeah, my folks.
Why'd you have to bring them up?
With your people.
They're dead, man.
But there isn't earlier.
There isn't. there is an earlier Simpsons pinball machine.
So that newer one is by Stern pinball, but well-regarded because it's their current manufacturer.
Yeah.
Was, uh, data East, which is actually sort of a predecessor.
Yeah.
And it, it's, it's actually, it's a very fun look.
Like the artwork is great.
It's, you know, it's got a lot of the call outs of like the voices and whatnot, but it's, uh, In terms of the rule set, like as a pinball game, I think it's generally disliked in a competition setting because a lot of people call it the big stupid ramp.
Like a lot of games have the big stupid ramp.
Is this one where?
Wait, you were about to tell us about the big stupid ramp, but does a second ball come out occasionally on that one?
I think there's a multiball, yeah.
This is what someone was talking about.
Someone rigged the game.
Matt Groening rigged it like 30 years ago.
I feel like the big stupid ramp leads it right down the center of the flippers, right?
No, it usually will return it to the, it's called like a lane return.
So it'll put it on your flippers.
So that way you can flip it again.
Yeah, usually it's not going to put it in too much danger, unless you miss it and then it rolls backwards down the ramp down the center.
What about the one where it bounces and then it goes into the one that makes you lose?
No fair.
Right?
Bounces and then makes you lose.
A specific game or you're just talking about generally?
No, in general with pinball machines.
What's the theme of it?
Is it like Sartre?
What's the theme of the game?
Right before it goes to the paddles, there's one part where it bounces, and then it can either go right,
There was a Terminator one that I think did that.
Yes, where it finishes and you lose or it goes to the left to the paddles.
Derek, is there one in the Simpsons one?
Is there one where I feel like I played it and you just get so many points if you get it in the right spot?
It goes like.
Yeah, well, there is.
So actually, the the nuclear power plant are the bumpers.
So if you get in the bumper, it won't be necessarily the biggest points.
But, yeah, you could get lucky and just get a lot of action there.
And that depending on the mode you're in, this is incredible.
There is a whole.
First of all, it's clear that everyone here was traumatized at one point by a game.
Yeah.
But the other thing is these are such vibrant memories for all of us because pinball goes back to I mean, goes back forever, but it's been around my entire life.
Yes.
And so I, we've all had similar experiences where it comes right down the middle.
It's out of the reach of both flippers and there's nothing you can do.
So heartbreaking.
Yeah.
That's the worst stuff.
Although now we know there is something you can do.
Nice.
Not if it's going right down the middle.
But he's saying it's going right down the middle.
You're saying tilt the table.
Or like maybe bump it with your body?
Yeah, well, you can.
I didn't know you were allowed to bump it.
Me neither.
Okay, so the two things I'll say.
One is you might tilt it.
The natural penalty for the tilt is you lose your ball.
So then it goes on to the next one.
But then the other potential issue is that there's an operator who actually owns the machine.
And if they see you mess with the K2 too much, they might ask you to leave that establishment.
Yeah, but i tend to do that when he's got his head towards near the oven.
You know he's shoveling a pie and that's the best time to tilt.
Tilt because he's dealing with that blast of flame in the oven.
Yeah, what's he doing?
He's feeding it in right now.
Tilt oh no, he's committing suicide.
Better for me.
Yeah, all right sorry no, don't you.
Never apologize for being you.
Darcy, never apologize for being you.
No, it was good.
Um, this is incredible.
You've taught us so much about pinball.
And uh, what is your favorite game of all time?
Is there one themed pinball game that's like the holy grail for you?
So I guess let me answer that in two ways.
One is that I actually have a favorite game for competition play and a favorite game that I own.
And so for competition play, there's actually a very old game.
It's from, I think, the mid-60s.
It's called Royal Flush.
And it is a game where basically the main thing is there's these stand-up targets.
As you hit them, you make poker hands, and then you collect points as you go along there.
For whatever reason and it's a very simple game, but for whatever reason, it beguiles even really great players and I feel pretty confident playing it.
So it's a game where I can maximize my winning percentage on that.
But then for my personal one, it's actually a very recent game that I purchased with the blessing from my wife, who's a big fan of the theme.
There's a Jim Henson's Labyrinth game that was recently produced, and I'm a big fan.
And yeah, so that's it.
You bring up an interesting point.
Your wife...
Where is she in your obsession with pinball?
And you're saying she let me buy this game.
With her blessing.
Yeah, and with her blessing.
But how often is she in the corner crying?
I'm telling you, you're right.
You're spot on.
There was a time where we needed it.
So before we had children, because I have two children, five years and five months.
Aw, weird names.
Yeah.
Hey, her family name.
Sorry, sorry, sorry.
It goes way back.
But no, before we had my son in 2020, we did have.
You know, we went to therapy to you know really, have somebody sort of help us talk through, like hey, I do a lot of things.
Not only pinball, I would do some like comedy.
I would do video game tournaments.
I just, you know, I love to sing karaoke.
I'm all over the map.
And she was very supportive.
You rounded out your pinball obsession with other equally horrible things.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Exactly.
I do D&D, you know, I'm not stuck.
There was a moment where yeah, I think we did have to have a sit down and be like hey this, this is not sustainable.
So let's let's just be mindful.
And and I think I'm much better for it.
That's good.
That's cool.
Is there the equivalent of like Alcoholics Anonymous for people that can't stop playing pinball?
They've got twitchy thumbs and they're like going bing, bing, bong, bong, bong, bong, bing, bing.
Maybe in the way, you know, there are people who have reported if they play a lot of Tetris.
Oh my God, that's me.
Do you have that problem?
Yeah, if you sort of dream in Tetris.
Yes, yes.
I am the best Tetris player in the world.
My little sister is better.
My little sister is better, but I'm second best in the world.
And yeah, definitely dream in Tetris.
Think about Tetris.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But I'm able to, you know, I can, I can, I can.
I don't think you can.
I think you have a real problem.
No, it's good.
It's not a bad, it's not bad.
It's not good at all.
I really, I want to play it right now, actually.
Now that we're talking about it, I'm like, I got to go.
Talk to Jason.
You got to talk to your husband about this.
Just break out your phone right now.
Did you have a question for me?
I do, actually.
So I guess one quick pitch and then a question.
I swear it'll be quick.
You know, it's funny.
You always add things.
I'll say, you know, it's just funny.
It's your thing.
I'll be like, you know, do you have a question?
You know, I'll say, oh, and what about this?
Well, I can answer that in nine ways.
Right, well, that's pinball for you, right?
He's got pinball brain.
He's playing pinball with my...
With my soul.
Derek's got pinball brain.
I mean, I wrote a musical about pinball.
Wait, wait, wait.
You wrote a musical about pinball?
I think there already is one.
Well, that's about playing pinball.
This is about living pinball.
Okay, okay, okay.
It was in a local San Francisco competition.
I won the competition.
It was great.
Oh my God, Derek.
It was wonderful.
Good for you.
So the one pitch I have is if you ever do, Kona in Moscow, but for the United States I got to say you got to go to Chicago.
When we thought about that, I just want to, and remember it's sort of with the guilt.
Go ahead.
Yeah, but you got to go.
Go to Pinball in Chicago.
There's a lot of the manufacturers.
Go to the factory.
They have a special room where you can see all the experimental features.
And I just feel like you could do a lot.
I think that sounds like I would have a good time.
If I go, I'll bring you.
How about that?
There you go.
Thank you.
I'll meet you there.
You have to pay for the flight and my camera crew.
I got you.
I got you.
Question is so Team Coco licenses the Team Coco brand, the coconut brand, likeness for a pinball machine.
What features are you insisting are in the machine?
Well, first of all, I would consult with you if we did this.
I would definitely consult with you.
And I love this idea.
That's a great idea.
And I do insist.
There's so many things that we could get into the weeds on, but at some point I would like to physically come out of the machine.
I would like to be and I would be willing.
If there was only one and we could work it out with my schedule, I would go and I would be secreted in the machine.
And then when someone wins, I come out.
Yeah.
And greet them and take a selfie.
And then I buy them a round of drinks.
Like that would be important to me.
Now, if that can't happen, I want some kind of Conan figure to come up out of the game, because I'm self-obsessed.
And don't you think?
What do you think?
Yeah.
I think that okay.
So like if you can picture a pinball machine.
I think it's like as if Conan is in bed and his head is right here, and then his body is here and he's naked.
Oh my God, no, Darcy, no.
Wait a minute.
Hello, Darcy.
No.
I like this.
No, I like this.
I just realized what I was sort of describing, but I'm like, I'm thinking of Conan.
Your fingers.
What?
She's like describing it with her fingers, which made it even more colorful.
It's highly erotic.
I'm enjoying this.
It's horrifying.
But definitely something with- Derek, I think you should leave.
No, no, but- Like some great ramp with his hair.
Yes, ramp with the hair is important.
But when you say I'm naked, is there parts of my body that are flipping the ball or no?
It's like an operation.
Yeah, that's not what I'm picturing.
No.
Yeah, oh, it could go into different parts of my body.
Yes, yes.
And it's me.
Look, my face is kind of like, ugh, because I have body shame.
And this is how you really get them.
You could be, this is you.
You could really be in this pinball machine.
Just your little head.
Your little head, your naked torso.
Maybe the pinball goes in your belly button.
We're all wondering.
God, no one's wondering.
And we're sitting here wondering.
And we're wondering.
And no one's answering the question.
Well, maybe it's my feet.
They're turned inward going, and I'm kind of like, my feet are going, huh, huh, huh, huh.
Yeah.
Or it's the string dance.
It's the string dance.
Oh, string dance.
Yes, that makes sense.
I was thinking like your intellectual property, like a little masturbating bear, and if the ball goes there and goes ding ding, ding ding, his hands go faster.
Yeah, yeah.
This is great.
Oh, that's great.
That's genius.
I know.
Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.
And then he's just like... He's like quickly jerking it.
Not licensed.
I really do think you could make a... Derek, I'm very interested.
Adam, let's get on this.
Yeah, on it.
And not Team Coco game.
Conan!
Yeah, I mean, go for it.
I like it.
I think this is all going into, yeah.
You should workshop the body a little bit more, I think.
It doesn't need to be there.
I don't think that needs to be there.
I can show you photos and stuff just so you know what you're dealing with.
That's okay.
No, I just went to my dermatologist. face.
You look like you're about to vomit.
Derek, absolute joy talking to you.
We will be in touch if we can get this game to the next level.
And thank you so much.
This was really fun.
Thank you.
I really appreciate it.
I feel very fortunate to have a lovely experience like this.
Thank you so much.
And Darcy, lovely that you could join us.
So nice to meet you.
My Bay Area brother.
I love this guy.
Yes, absolutely.
You're a very lovely fellow.
Thank you.
And I have nine reasons why.
All right, take care, man.
Bye.
All right, thanks, Conan.
Thanks, Sona.
Thanks, Tarzan.
Conan O'Brien needs a fan.
With Conan O'Brien, Sona Movsesian, and Matt Gourley.
Produced by me, Matt Gourley.
Executive produced by Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross, and Nick Liao.
Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino.
Take it away, Jimmy.
Supervising producer, Aaron Blair.
Associate talent producer, Jennifer Samples.
Associate producers, Sean Doherty and Lisa Byrne.
Engineering by Eduardo Perez.
Get three free months of SiriusXM when you sign up at SiriusXM.com slash Conan.
Please rate, review and subscribe to.
Conan O'Brien Needs a Fan wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.
